Buttkicker, Subwoofer, or both?

[ERacer]

I'm thinking of adding a buttkicker to my setup. I'm using a 5.1 audio configuration right now and the subwoofer does a great job. I recently read about the Buttkicker and would appreciate any feedback from those of you which may have one as part of your cockpit setup. Is it worth the money?

Thanks!

 

[cdn57]

I’ve used the Buttkicker for the past two years and have never regretted the purchase but the effectiveness will vary with each game you play. Most of my use has been with PC sims and it simply adds another level of immersion that a subwoofer just isn’t capable of replicating. On the starting grid, the whole cockpit shakes like a mother** because of the close proximity of all the engines. There is a kick with every gear change and a constant vibration with engine revs. You can feel if you’re in the wrong gear and the rumble of the chicanes.
One effect that caught me by surprise and still gives me goosebumps is the vibration felt when you pass a car that has just gone off-track and is fighting for the right gear.

You won’t truly appreciate it until you’ve used it and have to race without it. Twice now I’ve been near the end of a long league race where the buttkicker was working hard for over an hour and has shut off because of it’s built in temperature switch. Then, it feels like you’ve just been pulled out of the virtual world.
Unfortunately, I’ve never used it with GT so someone else will have to comment on the use of low frequency sound within the game. F1 Championship Edition on the PS3 feels very good but not quite at the level found on the PC.

When I first purchased it, I thought I might use it for movies if the experience wasn’t that good with the cockpit. Well now that I’ve got this new HT setup, I’m purchasing a second buttkicker for the new couch.

There are lots of threads in other forums where shakers are discussed so read what others have to say first. The rare person has felt that the expense wasn’t worth it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=330436&highlight=BASS+SHAKER

RaceSimCentral has lots of threads on the subject if you do a search.

 

[ERacer]

Thanks cdn57! I really appreciate your feedback. I found several reviews and all have nothing but great things to say about the ButtKicker. I went ahead and ordered from Amazon. $348 which includes shipping. Thanks again!!

ERacer

I received the ButtKicker last week, on Friday, a lot sooner than I thought which was a nice surprise. I built a 7" high platform frame to support my racing cockpit and to help hide all the electronics and wires. Plus the added height makes for a better sight line to the TV screen. This thing is very worth it!! The subwoofer moves air, the ButtKicker moves structures, together they create a great racing sensation.

I should point out that if you are thinking of installing a ButtKicker, for best results be sure to attach it to something that will flex a bit. This will allow for greater shaking motion. I used a 2"x6" board about 2 feet long and attached it to the frame of my platform. Seems to work fine although a longer board would perhaps work even better.

 

[fideles1986]

thats sounds awesome! I've also read about Buttkickers and now i am crazy for one. Hopefully my wife can bring me one from her trip.

i was telling a friend about it and IMO he had an awesome idea, which is to put springs under the cockpit. I have a DFP and when i turn the wheel i tend to naturally ( i think this goes for everyone) lean my body in the opposite direction, and i think with springs under the actual cockpit can simulate some type of G-Force and the shaking of the Buttkicker would be even more . i am no expert at these things i am just speculating with what i think seems possible. well what u guys think?

(for the past year I've said i was going to build a cockpit, but man i never got around to it, hopefully this will cheer me up!)

 

[waxer]

In your case with springs that aren't under tension so they can move the whole unit i imagine it would be too dificult. I assume you want the whole thing to lean either way. Getting it balanced right would be extremely hard and i imagine expensive. It wouldnt be a matter of simply putting springs underneath. Kind of like trying to get into a small boat floating in water. Centreing the weight is hard.
If you meant for dampening, reducing the loss of vibration into the floor then rubber is usually used. I was looking at exhaust mounts at one stage. With a full sized buttkicker its so powerfull i wouldnt think thats something you should worry about though.

 

[fideles1986]

what about those big springs, like the ones on the play horses on the park were they sway back and forth? Springs expensive? 👍

 

[waxer]

For expense I was thinking more like neumatic rams so the sway of the unit isnt too fast. I still dont get how a non software controled hydrolic system would work based on weight shifting of the actual user. When playing your weight shift isnt huge so the system would have to be sensitive, but then keeping it centred when you want it to would mean a big deadzone where small shifts in weight wont cause movement.
And if that wasnt what you meant then its the dampening thing where springs are alot of effort and money compared to a peice of ruber which works alot better. When the guys use rubber in 50-100 thousand dollar setups then im asuming thats the best option(money not being a factor for them).
I would actually love to know how springs work out though as i considered them myself. But ive gone with a clark synthesis silver as it was the best fit for my budget and i was afraid of how they might react/sound.

 

[fideles1986]

yea i understand what you are saying now. hum, gonna have to see how much this stuff will cost, i think here in brazil things like that are cheaper than in the US, or not? well thanks for ur comment, i appreciate the insight. 👍
A friend from a car lot just hooked me up with a car seat !FREE! nothing fancy, just something that works. 👍

 

[cdn57]

I can’t see the springs working to give you the effect of cornering if that’s what you’re trying to achieve. Motion simulators will lean you in the opposite direction of the turn to apply simulated g-forces.

Springs might help to transfer the vibrations of the Buttkicker throughout the complete cockpit but having rubber isolators provide strong vibrations for the seat and a good sensation all over.

However, a company called VRX does use a combination of springs and rubber isolators for their Buttkicker option. Maybe they’ve done some testing. The attached picture shows their design with the kicker enclosed in a metal case.

BTW, I’m a Fluid Power Technician and wouldn’t dare tackle the hydraulic or pneumatic design.

http://www.vrx.ca/products_pro.php

 

[waxer]

I noticed that on their design the other day. Maybe the springs are more for show. Alot of the other crap seems to be. My bigest concern is reducing vibration noise/rattle. Adding springs seems like one more potential problem in the future. You can after all make entire chairs sing if you turn the freq higher with alot of tactile transducers.

 

[ERacer]

My bigest concern is reducing vibration noise/rattle. Adding springs seems like one more potential problem in the future. You can after all make entire chairs sing if you turn the freq higher with alot of tactile transducers.

Yes, the noise/rattle from the vibration can be annoying if your design consists of a lot of movable parts. One solution to reduce the noise is to attach the ButtKicker, or other shaker, to the seat directly and isolate the seat from the rest of your rig by using rubber stoppers or springs. I constructed a platform to which I attached the ButtKicker and then placed the cockpit on top of the platform. So, the whole cockpit shakes when going over curbs or rough terrain and I had to put a thin matt between the platform and the cockpit to reduce the rattle sound, but still keeps the rattle feeling. 👍

ERacer

 

[Devedander]

BTW don't know if this is allowed but buttkicker gamer is on woot right now for $45 shipped...

 

[fideles1986]

woh! 45 where?

 

[Devedander]

It's over... it was on woot.com as part of their wootoff... sadly it's not available on there anymore but it's worth keeping an eye out as woot resells items fairly regularly.

 

[speedyK]

I'm thinking of adding a buttkicker to my setup. I'm using a 5.1 audio configuration right now and the subwoofer does a great job. I recently read about the Buttkicker and would appreciate any feedback from those of you which may have one as part of your cockpit setup. Is it worth the money?

I've got a Logitech 5.1 system too. If you want to add a Buttkicker, can anyone tell me how it should be wired in? Keep it simple please – I'm not an electronics genius! Thanks 👍

 

[ERacer]

Unless the Logitech system has two audio outputs for the subwoofer you will need to buy a splitter for the single output and simply attach the subwoofer and ButtKicker lines to the split.

 

[speedyK]

I was suspecting that that would be the answer.

Problem is, the Logitech has the amp in the subwoofer box, so the only outputs are front left, right and centre and rear left and right

I suppose this means I would have to open the box to take a feed from the line to the subwoofer speaker? If it is soldered, is it possible to simply combine the subwoofer line and the new one to a Buttkicker and solder it back on? Does buying a splitter ensure better quality sound?

 

[ERacer]

I'm not familiar with the Logitech system. And would not risk opening up the unit. But doesn't it come with a separate amp? The subwoofer will typically have its own amp within the box, but I thought the 5.1 system you have would also have a main receiver/amplifier, no? Even so, the ButtKicker takes a lot of juice and unless you have about 200 watts (i think) you'd be better off buying the amp kit from ButtKicker which, by the way, also includes a splitter. 👍

 

[waxer]

I just had a quick look at the buttkicker site. looks like there are inputs for both a single coax style sub or a 2 speaker wire system. Id recomend splitting off the centre channel and trying that as its going to get the most audio fed to it. Thats just from the looks of a picture though so id check it actually has them. This is all asuming because its a dedicated system that they havnt got some sort of crossover in the logitechs on the other channels. You should probably email buttkicker or logitech and ask them as it would be a common enough question.

 

[speedyK]

I just had a quick look at the buttkicker site.

Can you post the url please?

 

[waxer]

http://www.thebuttkicker.com/ButtKicker Gamer_home.html

 

[speedyK]

Thanks