Can someone explain the allure of racing soft tires?

[bloodredsky]

I hate racing tires so much. It's like putting the game on beginner mode.

I hate the extreme grip, hate that they mask the handling characteristics of a car(good or bad), hate that there is no penalty for driving terrible lines/out braking/dive bombing, but I hate most that it becomes impossible to power slide(not drift).

I've played this game a dumb amount since release and I thought that racing tires were for 1)noobs(people who just bought the game) 2) terrible drivers(that would just spin out every other turn on any other tire, regardless of what PP) 3)people that have to have this game put on easy mode and are scared of an actual challenge.

My philosophy is the fun part of this game is trying something less than simple- since you know most who still play this game have been for 2.5 years (Example: 600PP/no ades/SS/very fast wear[I dare you not to lose traction in that race!])

Anyways I just needed to rant a bit. It's really not possible to find a room with anything less than invincible racing softs with no wear anymore/even if the room is at a fixed 450PP (which in all honesty makes me lol every time)

Alright, rant over. Flame away (because I realize from searching for a room without racing softs, that it seems that 99% of all rooms have these tires and have no problems in filling up the rooms - when I have a room up with sports tires, either no one joins or anyone who does join, gets on the track, spins out on turn one, and quits(because its too hard i guess)

I'm not really looking for any new friends, but if you have a problem with racing tires and your looking for a challenge, check me out.

 

[cueball]

Don't use them.

 

[Chris123]

This is gt5 not iracing, it's a fairly decent driving sim but still kinda made available too noobs and non serious racing enthusiasts, take it for what it is, I came to a point like you were I realised that I'd almost outgrown the game in terms of sim realism, I'd join a room and find everyone using racing softs and abs at a minimum, I'd just try and find a group of mates who race without R softs or try a more serious racing sim, just my two cents

 

[bloodredsky]

That's a great point Chris and totally see where your coming from. I've never played IRacing but I've heard enough to know that the hardcore true to life racers are all there.

I guess it's just frustrating to see all these rooms up and still so many people playing the game, but almost less than 1% of players who aren't up for some sort of level of difficulty involved.

The main reason I still play, is to achieve the car's handling characteristic (GT6 demo is the perfect comparison). The other reason I still play a lot is because of the ACTUAL RACING(I'm talking side by side/passing basically) with clean racers in that difficult scenario of 'fast wear/sliding a bit/throttle control/bad tires/etc'. I find it rewarding to clean pass, or for that fact, to be cleanly passed- I enjoy it. I guess I play from flag to flag thought, and most play just for the win right.

*Edit - I guess I'm having a hard time dealing with the fact that most who play this game, play it on a super leisurely basis. Not that I'm the most super serious guy out there that plays - I guess just what I want out of the game is almost too much to ask.

 

[VBR]

You're a man after my own heart in this regard. Try clean Shuffle/Spec lobbies, they mostly use Comfort Soft & Sports Hard tyres. I've been doing this since GT5 came out, & always add drivers who have similar preferences.


EDIT: I recommend this. 👍

 

[bloodredsky]

Another good point VBR. In the odd chance I do find a room with sports/comfort, it is almost always shuffle racing.

Nothing against shuffle/spec racing, but I tried it for like 6 months, starting last November...it was okay i guess, but I'm a guy who's tuned cars for 2.5 years in this game, and I prefer a tuned car over spec. Spec cars have no soul IMO, there very bland, boring, predictable machines. And I enjoy tuning a car, as most people who I race with regularly, and enjoy tuning it to my personal driving style(which is another super rewarding aspect of the game for me)

And when i say 'tune' I don't mean triple the HP in a car, 'tune' to me means LSD and suspension mainly, which IMO alters/helps to achieve the car's preferred handling characteristic.

 

[eran0004]

Some people are always going to be more dedicated than others, while the majority prefer a simpler experience. So when you browse the public lobbies the majority will always be in... majority. Go and take a look at the online competitions section of this forum, perhaps there's a club or a league there that will suit you.

 

[Starciller]

I use racing tires because of the group of friends I race with. We all have the same taste in cars, race type, tracks and everything else, but if I even suggest limiting it to racing hards or less they all scream "NO why would you do that it ruins the fun!" Only one of my friends knows what I talk about when I say limiting the tires is fun but no one else in the group does. I find it to be a blast to actually lose grip in corners so you can power slide around them and with sports tires it simulates in a way what a real car should feel like. But 2 gets overruled by 4 so....

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Try the WRS. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=180298

We have weekly time trials and races and we almost always use comfort or sports tires. I only take part in the TT's because I'm a very crappy driver but I have heard some very good things about the races they hold. Always very clean and competitive. Check them out, might be just what you're looking for.

 

[fbccars924]

nuff said

 

[LancerEvo7]

There are some cars where I have no problem with using Racing Soft tires, but I agree, it's more fun to use less grippy tires, especially on street cars. 👍

 

[Carbonox]

Oh come on, you know the racing is at its best when your car is driving on rails and it's literally impossible to spin out.

 

[Johnnypenso]

...epic wall of text...

I'm not really looking for any new friends, but if you have a problem with racing tires and your looking for a challenge, check me out.

I have to admit for most of the first few months I played GT5 I put RS tires on almost everything and I'm afraid to admit, SRF for the first month or so. Even the first race series I tried was the Cappuccino RM on racing tires... Now I avoid racing tires like the plague because as you said, the challenge just isn't there for me. But some people aren't looking for a challenge or a realistic driving experience, they are looking for a game. I'd say that's the majority of people in GT5 actually and there's nothing wrong with that, but it is frustrating trying to find a lobby with street tires.

I've been formulating a plan in my head for GT6 actually and i was going to mention it to you so I might as well throw it out here. I think what would be successful along these lines is an association of sorts, a collection of solid hosts such as yourself, VBR, this guy:

EDIT: I recommend this. 👍

...and others...all combining forces into a GT6 community of racing on realistic tires. I forsee combinations of private and open lobbies, race series, organized spot races and casual get togethers. Each RD can organize and run whatever series, organized or casual racing they like with their own spin on things, but with a mostly universal set of principles and rules to follow with room for improvising but the overall message remaining the same, clean, respectful driving.

The overall goal would be to gather hundreds of clean drivers that like racing on street tires or RH on the 600PP+ racecars perhaps so we can all have a larger pool to draw from, rather than each of us operating individually constantly trying to attract new anonymous faces every time we start up a series or just enjoy casual racing nights as Blood does now. Hopefully PD's announced features for race and league organization help facilitate this, but it could be done just within GTP at this point, albeit a bit clumsily.

By the way, I'll put in a plug for Blood's room that he runs most nights. He's keeps the pace moving, lots of variety in both tracks and car/tire combinations and it's a fun room. I got there as often as I'm able and it's always a good time.

 

[MeanElf]

I hardly bother with online anymore, though last week I spent a few laps of the 'Ring in one room and I stuck to the compounds normally associated with the PP level - 550PP so sports hard.

I still managed to come in fourth out of eight and that was reward enough in itself

 

[coxbox]

I like to use all the tires, if I can. I do enjoy small cars on low grip tires, as well as cars on RS with plenty of grip.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I like using RS because it makes me feel like Schumacher.

 

[MadMike32]

I don't race online, but offline, racing soft tires are great for making certain cars driveable for those of us that aren't driving gods and/or the Stig.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I hardly bother with online anymore, though last week I spent a few laps of the 'Ring in one room and I stuck to the compounds normally associated with the PP level - 550PP so sports hard.

I still managed to come in fourth out of eight and that was reward enough in itself

Every car in the game is driveable, even the real beasts like the Yellowbird and BTR. The difference with RS and native tires is that with the native tires you have to pay attention 100% of the time and actually take some care with your steering/throttle/brake inputs. With RS tires on, the tires simply overpower the suspension, throttle, brakes and tires and less like actually driving and more like a rollercoaster on rails. I think most people will find that a little patience and practice will make street tires a much more enjoyable experience with the added benefit that you will actually be faster when you go back to RS tires.

 

[autech91]

Every car in the game is driveable, even the real beasts like the Yellowbird and BTR. The difference with RS and native tires is that with the native tires you have to pay attention 100% of the time and actually take some care with your steering/throttle/brake inputs. With RS tires on, the tires simply overpower the suspension, throttle, brakes and tires and less like actually driving and more like a rollercoaster on rails. I think most people will find that a little patience and practice will make street tires a much more enjoyable experience with the added benefit that you will actually be faster when you go back to RS tires.

Hear hear. I race on all tyres, even RS. For example last night I was in an open lobby with 1 car from the favourite list, the GTR in this case. The host set the tyres to RS. I would have prefered something less grippy but with a mixed bunch of racers it worked out that those that would be fast on harder tyres, still creamed on the RS tyres, leaving some people on mics wondering aloud how one can be so much faster in identical cars. The fact is that if they took the time to learn to drive with less grippy tyres, they would be faster on the sticky stuff. But at the end of the day not everyone is as dedicated a racer as some of us so if they just want a good afternoon drive, let em have it, just show up occasionally to thrash them and show them the error of their ways

 

[BlazeTheCat05]

Just limit the tires then if you're hosting a lobby.

 

[fbccars924]

^why, leave it unrestricted then go out and beat the X2011 trolls lap at Tsukuba with RH tires and a 1/3rd the HP in a power limited FGT.

 

[bloodredsky]

Wow, good to see a lot of the community behind me on this one ! To be completely honest, I expected to be bombarded by the RS guys in this thread, but not the case.

Yeah Johnny, I was going to start some sort of thread, regarding what I (we) do every night, and just bump my thread whenever I put up the room, with the room number. You know, just to give a heads up to anyone who wanted to have a nice challenge and meet some new friends who are a little more serious about their racing experience.

I was going to ask though, isn't it bad practice to bump your own thread ? I thought it's against the terms+conditions/rules ?

If someone let me know how I could set that up, that would be great! Like i say just a master thread for my room and ill give it a bump when i start a room - in an effort to both meet new people that share the same values as we do - and to give those that are looking for a challenge, something new to try.

 

[saidaouita]

I hate racing tires so much. ..

I hate the extreme grip, hate that they mask the handling characteristics ..hate that there is no penalty for driving terrible lines..I hate most that it becomes impossible to power slide..

.
Anyways I just needed to rant a bit. ...
Alright, rant over. Flame away..

...

Don't use them.

Pretty much could have closed this thread after the #2 post.

Make game restrictions in online games. People will join, just not as quickly if they can use race tires.

I guess it takes away from the simulator part of the game (aka noobish) but I gladly admit to enjoying tearing around in my Spoon civic (with racing tires) at Nurburgring. I can enter turns a lot harder and jumping curbs is fun.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Wow, good to see a lot of the community behind me on this one ! To be completely honest, I expected to be bombarded by the RS guys in this thread, but not the case.

Yeah Johnny, I was going to start some sort of thread, regarding what I (we) do every night, and just bump my thread whenever I put up the room, with the room number. You know, just to give a heads up to anyone who wanted to have a nice challenge and meet some new friends who are a little more serious about their racing experience.

I was going to ask though, isn't it bad practice to bump your own thread ? I thought it's against the terms+conditions/rules ?

If someone let me know how I could set that up, that would be great! Like i say just a master thread for my room and ill give it a bump when i start a room - in an effort to both meet new people that share the same values as we do - and to give those that are looking for a challenge, something new to try.

Set it up in Clubs and Leagues. Make up a club name. If you want some graphics or something I can whip something together but my skills are limited. Look at my Deadnuts thread and that's my best work...lol Try to also post in the 2nd and 3rd spots at least to reserve them right away for future use.

Make a simple first post with the kinds of stuff you like to do, encourage the guys to pop in once in a while just to shoot the breeze which will bump the thread up naturally. Each night when you post a new room number, you could do it in a new post and that'll bump it up too.

Pickings are slim in GT5 these days so don't expect miracles. You might try running a shuffle room once in a while because they tend to fill up fast and always give it the same name, linked to the other room. Same with your room every night, always the same name, brand recognition is Marketing 101. You might call one "Blood's Shuffle" and the other "Blood's PP" <<<catchy eh?

Fixed host is best if you have a stable connection. That way no one can hijack the room when you are gone and wreck your reputation.

 

[MistyRainne]

I’m with you on all this. I did use Racing Softs a lot early on, but after reading some improvement advice, I’ve been using Comfort Hard tires routinely, as a training aid, to the point where it almost feels like cheating to go back to standard Sports Hard tires!

For people who (only) want Racing Softs’ kind of driving experience, go race karts! Nothing wrong with karts, they’re pretty fun on their own terms (even if they are RWD...), but those terms are different than cars’ terms.

I agree with you about tuning too, I’m now focusing on things like LSD (now that I know what to do with it) rather than just slapping a bunch of generic improvements on the vehicle, throwing a big switch in the garage during a lightning storm and belting out an evil laugh and yelling MOAR POWAR! – without any real respect for that power or understanding of how to harness it.

I dunno where I sit on the spectrum of “hardcore player” vs “casual player”. I’m still fairly new to the game, and I’m not exactly goal-oriented when I play, but I do try to be respectful, take things seriously. (For the most part. ) For an expert to agree with you is one thing; for a newbie to agree, though, means that you’re (we’re) not entirely a dying breed. So, take heart from that too?

 

[Johnnypenso]

...snip.. some improvement advice, I&#8217;ve been using Comfort Hard tires routinely, as a training aid, to the point where it almost feels like cheating to go back to standard Sports Hard tires!

I agree with you about tuning too, I&#8217;m now focusing on things like LSD (now that I know what to do with it) rather than just slapping a bunch of generic improvements on the vehicle, throwing a big switch in the garage during a lightning storm and belting out an evil laugh and yelling MOAR POWAR! &#8211; without any real respect for that power or understanding of how to harness it.
..snip..

You've hit upon two of the best pieces of advice on GTP. Hami's LSD Tuning Guide is the definitive guide to the LSD and Oshawa Joe's general advice as to how to approach the game is also golden. I have nothing against anyone that just wants to run on racing softs and I get the allure, but I also think that many of them just don't know what they are missing by avoiding the harder compounds and really getting into the nitty gritty of learning how to circuit race with less grip. The cars really come alive on their native tires and small differences in inputs and in tuning really make a big difference. You will eventually find consistency and it becomes much easier to find the limits with practice. Good laps are so much more rewarding. Funny thing is, once you get good on the harder tires, you actually become faster on RS tires and every other compound as a result.

Might I also suggest this:

[post=4888688]VBR's Good Racecraft Guide[/post]

and this:

[post=3176790] GTP OLR Rules & Guidelines[/post]

and this:

[post=7826456]Johnny's Foolproof Guide to Avoid the Worst of Open Lobbies[/post]

 

[Morgoth_666]

...[snip]
Funny thing is, once you get good on the harder tires, you actually become faster on RS tires and every other compound as a result.
[snip]...

I've read that so many times from so many people, yet I can't for the life of me ever feel like I'm remotely competent on RS tires. I always feel like I'm leaving tons of grip on the table and people always seem so much faster than me in the turns, yet whenever I try to push a bit harder I lose it and spin or plow off the track.

I never used them at all except online although I did for a short while do a lot of online RS racing, but it just never felt right for me. Put on some sports or comfort tires and I never feel so uncomfortable and clueless. Maybe it's all in my head or maybe there's something I just don't fundamentally understand. I've never really studied to see if I'm technically any slower against the fastest people in the room one way or the other(and most rooms don't switch back-and-forth), it just feels like everyone overall has more raw pace vs me when on RS.

 

[MeanElf]

MeanElf
I hardly bother with online anymore, though last week I spent a few laps of the 'Ring in one room and I stuck to the compounds normally associated with the PP level - 550PP so sports hard.

I still managed to come in fourth out of eight and that was reward enough in itself

Every car in the game is driveable, even the real beasts like the Yellowbird and BTR. The difference with RS and native tires is that with the native tires you have to pay attention 100% of the time and actually take some care with your steering/throttle/brake inputs. With RS tires on, the tires simply overpower the suspension, throttle, brakes and tires and less like actually driving and more like a rollercoaster on rails. I think most people will find that a little patience and practice will make street tires a much more enjoyable experience with the added benefit that you will actually be faster when you go back to RS tires.

Not sure why you were quoting my post, maybe you meant to quote someone else...

 

[Johnnypenso]

Not sure why you were quoting my post, maybe you meant to quote someone else...

Me either, because this is the post I should have quoted:

I don't race online, but offline, racing soft tires are great for making certain cars driveable for those of us that aren't driving gods and/or the Stig.

Sorry

 

[Prototyp3]

the allure is they have the best grip