Cities: Skylines (the Sim City we deserve)

[eran0004]

Yeah, and most of the maps seem to be either totally flat or unrealistically steep. That's why I prefer making my own maps, even though it takes a lot of time. You don't quite realise how big a map is until you decide to make your own

I'm happy that the island map worked so well, that means 20 tiles of terrain instead of 81.

Below, some new detailed areas to bring life to the empty space between towns.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Started again, again... again. No mod errors now on load.

Really struggling to get my head around biome's, LUT's and themes, to get the right look... but anyway, spent like two hours replacing the first junction off the highway...

.. yeah, I know some of the fillers from the lane marking mod don't line-up.... but it's not finished yet.

I'd echo your frustration on the map quality @Samus. It's easier to make it work with mods - node controller again stands out in helping keep your roads from messing stuff up on slopes, but building on slopes can take a lot of bulldozing and landscaping to get right.

The map I've chosen for my latest built is pretty mountainous. Should prove interesting and frustrating... but I seem to prefer rural, logging, mining and shipping, than highrise and sprawl.

 

[Samus]

The standard maps just always seem to have some issue with them preventing them being absolutely ideal for what you have in mind. A lot of them its resources, like why did they even make maps with zero ore or oil? Or some where the only source is on a far out tile otherwise unlikely to be used for building. So if you want the oil/ore, you gotta compromise the rest of your city.

Some maps just seem completely absurd. Like Marble Canyon, what are you supposed to do on that except stupidly high bridges?

Also I really wish Twin Fjords didn't have the extreme elevation, I love the layout of that map otherwise.

@MatskiMonk I also prefer the rural, low density building. When you get to building high-rise stuff it all looks pretty generic, hard to make it feel unique.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Yeah, and most of the maps seem to be either totally flat or unrealistically steep. That's why I prefer making my own maps, even though it takes a lot of time. You don't quite realise how big a map is until you decide to make your own

I'm happy that the island map worked so well, that means 20 tiles of terrain instead of 81.

Below, some new detailed areas to bring life to the empty space between towns.

View attachment 972259 View attachment 972260 View attachment 972261 View attachment 972262

Are you using surface painter to hide the sidewalks on these roads? Or are they road networks that don't include a sidewalk? Or perhaps, surface networks?

Previously I'd used surface painter, but on my current theme, the 'ruined' texture is completely different to the grass texture.

 

[eran0004]

Are you using surface painter to hide the sidewalks on these roads? Or are they road networks that don't include a sidewalk? Or perhaps, surface networks?

Previously I'd used surface painter, but on my current theme, the 'ruined' texture is completely different to the grass texture.

These roads are the rural roads by Delta 5-1. I can recommend getting them, they are absolutely beautiful. The bridges are a bit narrow, but you can use the node controller mod to make them wider if you want. https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2108074511

 

[MatskiMonk]

These roads are the rural roads by Delta 5-1. I can recommend getting them, they are absolutely beautiful. The bridges are a bit narrow, but you can use the node controller mod to make them wider if you want. https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2108074511

That's odd, I'm already sub'd to that (based on your previous recommendation I suspect), yet I don't recall seeing them in my networks (FindIt!) or on the standard Road menu's.

 

[eran0004]

That's odd, I'm already sub'd to that (based on your previous recommendation I suspect), yet I don't recall seeing them in my networks (FindIt!) or on the standard Road menu's.

Technically they are in the highway category.

 

[Samus]

Definitely would like a few more road types in the vanilla game. Mass Transit added a few but still missing single lane one way road, wide single lane two way roads with no divider and rural roads like the above with no sidewalk for three.

 

[eran0004]

I found a way to connect my tram depot to the city and proceeded to create a bunch of tram lines.

I used the network skins mod to replace the wires on all segments except for the tram stops. I imagine that these trams have batteries and that it's enough to recharge at each stop. I did this because the wires don't really work well when going around corners, plus the fact that the spacing of the masts depends on the length of the road segment, so segments that are really short look kind of bad with the wires enabled.

Using an old tram model for the aesthetics. It's probably a fleet of old trams that have been modernised technically

Using Delta 5-1's tram road collection. I like that they have dedicated tram lanes, that means that they won't block the road for emergency vehicles and other traffic.

And they work well for roundabouts too

 

[Samus]

Are there any tricks to getting smooth roundabout joins in the vanilla game? I know they'll never look anywhere close as good as modded like that last screenshot, but there must be some known methods to doing something half decent that doesn't end up with ugly warped roads?

The best I can ever manage is something like the left one on this image (not mine, random google image)

But more often than not, they end up looking like the top and right one. Very ugly where it joins to the four lane roads.

 

[eran0004]

Are there any tricks to getting smooth roundabout joins in the vanilla game? I know they'll never look anywhere close as good as modded like that last screenshot, but there must be some known methods to doing something half decent that doesn't end up with ugly warped roads?

The best I can ever manage is something like the left one on this image (not mine, random google image)

But more often than not, they end up looking like the top and right one. Very ugly where it joins to the four lane roads.

The ugly join at the four lane road is because the angle is too shallow. The road needs to be brought closer to the roundabout so you get a greater angle, or you could make the joining roads curving out a bit.

If all roads connecting to the roundabout are 4-lane then I think the easiest approach is to build a smaller radius roundabout and connect the 4-lane roads directly to the roundabout, because the lane offset + curvature of the roundabout then makes it a relatively smooth join.

 

[MatskiMonk]

@Samus I believe that constructing everything you have in the narrowest zonable road you have, then upgrading to full width roads, can help you get things tighter together... though I don't suppose for a second that makes it any easier.

 

[Samus]

The ugly join at the four lane road is because the angle is too shallow. The road needs to be brought closer to the roundabout so you get a greater angle, or you could make the joining roads curving out a bit.

If all roads connecting to the roundabout are 4-lane then I think the easiest approach is to build a smaller radius roundabout and connect the 4-lane roads directly to the roundabout, because the lane offset + curvature of the roundabout then makes it a relatively smooth join.

Yeah I've noticed that works ok, only downside is the AI quickly clog up smaller roundabouts with their idiotic merging and waiting in the middle.

This is one of my actual roundabouts, I guess it's about the best you'll do on vanilla? The left one I couldn't get right after much trying.

Doesn't look great but that's vanilla I guess.

@Samus I believe that constructing everything you have in the narrowest zonable road you have, then upgrading to full width roads, can help you get things tighter together... though I don't suppose for a second that makes it any easier.

Yup I learned that from a YouTube video, build most things with dirt roads and then upgrade. Only problem is sometimes you can't upgrade them, you get the space already occupied error. I've found it helps most for shaping the highway exit roads which don't seem to bend nicely, but if you use a dirt road and upgrade they're always fine.

 

[eran0004]

Yeah I've noticed that works ok, only downside is the AI quickly clog up smaller roundabouts with their idiotic merging and waiting in the middle.

This is one of my actual roundabouts, I guess it's about the best you'll do on vanilla? The left one I couldn't get right after much trying.

View attachment 972805 View attachment 972806

Doesn't look great but that's vanilla I guess.

Yeah, that’s pretty much the best you can do without mods.

Imperatur makes some nice builds without mods, might be a good source of inspiration for vanilla: https://www.youtube.com/c/imperatur

 

[Samus]

Yeah, that’s pretty much the best you can do without mods.

Imperatur makes some nice builds without mods, might be a good source of inspiration for vanilla: https://www.youtube.com/c/imperatur

Yeah I've seen his stuff, lots of nice ideas. Got some good inspiration from his America vs Europe vs Asia series for general layouts of the city centre, I still struggle the most with that.

 

[MatskiMonk]

These are about as tight as I can get without using mods*...

*... I'm assuming that on console you can turn off Snapping, and therefore have fine placement over where you can drop nodes when they're not connecting to anything.

I'm not sure how it would work with different sized roundabouts or different road types. I can get the left hand one to accept 2 line highway as the slip lane onto the roundabout, but I think I place the dual-carriageway too close.

edit:

I'm being a plank... I've upgraded the roads on the left to dual carriageway into 2-lane highway...

 

[Samus]

These are about as tight as I can get without using mods*...

View attachment 972815

*... I'm assuming that on console you can turn off Snapping, and therefore have fine placement over where you can drop nodes when they're not connecting to anything.

I'm not sure how it would work with different sized roundabouts or different road types. I can get the left hand one to accept 2 line highway as the slip lane onto the roundabout, but I think I place the dual-carriageway too close.

edit:

I'm being a plank... I've upgraded the roads on the left to dual carriageway into 2-lane highway...

View attachment 972816

On console you can turn off four snapping options but even with them all off....things still snap to each other if you get too close. I don't really know why. It makes doing parallel roads a pain because the second one keeps trying to snap into the first one.

I will try to mimic what you've done tonight but I don't think it's possible. Did you make the small bits first and attach the four lane onto it or line up the four lane and add the joins?

 

[redhed17]

@Samus I believe that constructing everything you have in the narrowest zonable road you have, then upgrading to full width roads, can help you get things tighter together... though I don't suppose for a second that makes it any easier.

I didn't know about this way to make junctions until today, coincidently I watched a video about road hierarchy in the game earlier by someone I had not seen before, jester.Gaming, and the technique was demonstrated, though not on a roundabout. I think the demo was all done un-modded. I found it interesting.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I will try to mimic what you've done tonight but I don't think it's possible. Did you make the small bits first and attach the four lane onto it or line up the four lane and add the joins?

I thought I'd record it (since I can now!).

I've obviously got mods installed, but I don't think what I'm doing is using any functionality.

Laying it out with dirt roads gives you the zoning grids, so you can kind of use that to judge the free-hand bit. Apologies for the pauses around the 2 minute mark... Danger Cat on desk alert!!



edit: Also, I was so keen not to use any keyboard shortcuts that might be mod related, I even kept nudging the view around with the mouse! I don't normally do that. Also, ignore the last bit, I just wanted to show off some of the glitching limits of the Node controller mod.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Made another quick video. Basically just wanted to get my head around the cinematic camera mod.

Cooper County (Version 3 so far). Still messing around with LUT's. Something isn't right since I'm having to compensate a lot with global and ambient lighting settings.



Clearly, not much here is actually finished, lots of hedges, gardens and walls to add around the houses. I've had to chuck some block services in for now, and as can be seen, I can't even support one commercial element at the moment (hence the shop is derelict).

 

[eran0004]

@MatskiMonk Looking good! 👍

I've been detailing some empty spots of the map. I found a nice workflow for making nature builds. Areas with a lot of trees look a lot better with a little bit of ruined texture underneath. Dry patches can be done by adding just a hint of sand. Forests look better if the trees are placed in clusters instead just covering everything uniformly. Natural fields look nice with some bushes scattered around it.

Before:

After:

I added a barrier between the tram tracks at some of my tram stops. I suppose the real life purpose of such barriers is to encourage embarking/disembarking passengers to use the pedestrian crossing instead of running straight across the road.

It seems like there was a plot to set the parliament building on fire. However, the perpetrators missed their target and instead burned down the park right next to the building.

Edit: I also bumped my shadow settings to max without seeing any performance impact, I suppose my frame rate is CPU limited already. So if I'm not going to get more than single figure fps out of my laptop, why not use that to get some shinier graphics?

 

[Samus]

So I was wrong, what you did is possible on console @MatskiMonk although getting the angles to match is trickier without the fine control of the mouse. Thanks though!

Heh, looking at this screenshot compared to yours above just highlights how damn cartoony and oversaturated the default maps are.

 

[Samus]

Away from roundabouts I decided to try and get all four areas of industries DLC to 5* on my latest map without using cheats, thought it would be a decent challenge. That was an understatement.

Obviously the biggest issue is the ore and oil depleting. It does it so fast you've got to make your industry cover a huge area and then be constantly moving the extractors around once the amount they're pulling drops down. Then the other issue you have is workers. You need a set number to level up but by the time you unlock oil and ore a large chunk of your city are educated and aren't so willing to take industry Jobs.

I know eventually educated cims will take the jobs but you're against the clock with the depleting resources. So again, because no cheats meaning limited tiles you run out of ideal space to build new houses, so you have to temporarily cram them in anywhere you can to generate enough uneducated workers. Still it doesn't fully work so despite only needing 800 workers for 5*, you have to create 1000 or more just to tempt enough.

Naturally that creates another issue, more buildings = more traffic, so you have to try and manage that.

I'm sure it can be done easier with better planning and timing but damn, never doing that again. Future cities will either be unlimited cheats or no oil/ore specialist areas. Or just kept at a low level.

It's just nice because you unlockvand need them for all the big unique factories which fill out industry areas without needing to do it with generic stuff as you would normally.

I got there in the end though, now to demolish all my temporary housing and turn on the cheats to go back to a relaxing build!

 

[MatskiMonk]

@Samus

Their are district policies which push people towards either higher education or employment ("Schools Out" tends them towards work, "Education Boost" tends them towards education).

But yeah, Industries without unlimited resources is a bit like the natural disasters DLC, you spend more time fixing problems than building a decent city in the first place.

 

[Samus]

Yeah It just doesn't make sense. The menu said for this map I had around 200,000 tons of Ore and I was taking 120 tons a week. Simple maths says it should be lasting 32ish years but most of the dark patches yielding the max amount was gone in less than 5.

Thankfully there was just enough left once I reached 5* that I could turn on the cheat and not have any further problems. I don't want to imagine what the traffic would be like if you had to import it all.

 

[eran0004]

I found some nice Finnish apartments on the workshop.

And I did some terraforming close by the nature reserve, working on some hills and valleys. A bear stopped by to take a look.

 

[eran0004]

I'm really happy with how these fields turned out.

 

[Samus]

I have another question about industries. When your production gets a boost and the processors produce more specialised products, does their raw materials requirement also go up or just the output?

So for example, with no bonuses at all a small crop field extracts 48 tons of crops a week. A small animal pasture requires 32 tons a week to produce 24 tons of animal products. However, in my farm with bonuses a small animal pasture will produce 31 tons of animal products. But will they still do that from the same 32 tons a week, or need more?

Logic would suggest they do, but I don't know where you'd find up how much more they're using because they just get dumps from lorries at random, as far as I can see there is nothing that says how much they need a week, only how much they produce? Although thinking about it, there must be somewhere because this spreadsheet I used as a rough guide must've got that data from somewhere.

 

[eran0004]

Good question. I think it’s only increasing the processing speed, but I might be wrong about it.

 

[Samus]

Good question. I think it’s only increasing the processing speed, but I might be wrong about it.

This official wiki seems to be the source for that data

https://skylines.paradoxwikis.com/Supply_chain

But they don't say how they calculated it, and just a simple "All values are for original production rates. This is changed as zones level up and with worker's barracks in the zone." but nothing specific about processor inputs.

I know it isn't really necessary and trial and error will eventually get a good flow but there isn't much sim micro management in the game so I like to do it for this, playing with the numbers to get them optimum.

I've already managed to get my imports down to under 200 total in a city of 32,000 so pretty happy with that. Exports are around 700, so still pretty low. Before I knew what I was doing in older cities I built too many factories and commercial so both were 3,000+, no wonder I had traffic problems!