Clean driving, a solution

[ThaSyn]

I think we all can agree that the Sr system like it is set up now does not work. People racing badly on purpose get away with it way too easily. Often the clean drivers are punished more severe, etc...

In my opinion only one thing can end the current demolition derby fest: realistic damage. It does not need to be visible damage, as long as ramming etc... ends someone's race or at least makes a good result impossible, such behaviour will become way less attractive.

 

[ghostrider135]

I think we all can agree that the Sr system like it is set up now does not work. People racing badly on purpose get away with it way too easily. Often the clean drivers are punished more severe, etc...

In my opinion only one thing can end the current demolition derby fest: realistic damage. It does not need to be visible damage, as long as ramming etc... ends someone's race or at least makes a good result impossible, such behaviour will become way less attractive.

Whilst I can get behind this I think it should be limited to only vehicle-vehicle contact, If it happened for wall contact that could penalize people somewhat unfairly for the slightest tap of a wall that is beside the track and would probably make rammers utilize walls if the walls also caused damage.

 

[ThaSyn]

Whilst I can get behind this I think it should be limited to only vehicle-vehicle contact, If it happened for wall contact that could penalize people somewhat unfairly for the slightest tap of a wall that is beside the track and would probably make rammers utilize walls if the walls also caused damage.

Good point

 

[Potato_Head]

I've got another solution; PD could program in a feature where, during a Sport Mode race, if you go below a certain SR threshold during a single race (for example; 10 incidents in one lap) your PS4 catches fire and explodes.

 

[WATAPHO]

I've got another solution; PD could program in a feature where, during a Sport Mode race, if you go below a certain SR threshold during a single race (for example; 10 incidents in one lap) your PS4 catches fire and explodes.

Fire extinguisher handy, I back this.

 

[PorscheHD]

What i also think is that you get to fast bad rating, when i and other having fun and touching cars whitout any problems just a soft contact you rating is going down. It makes racing vert hard.....

In GT racing contact is not something strange a push here and there whitout a driver getting in problems is very normal but in GT you rating is going down very hard!!

Also after a month S rating you can get down to B in one race because of 1 messy race so months hard work to stay at S gets wreckt in one race..... way to fast if you ask me.

 

[phl0w]

@PorscheHD: First of all: The threshold of force was significantly lowered already. Trading a bit of paint in GT (and in general) is definitely possible without having it influence your SR. It all seems to depend on difference in velocity from what I gathered.
And second of all, getting your SR back to S from B hardly nullifies “months of hard work”. We’re looking at one or two clean races here, and you’re back. Been there.

 

[lopescj]

The penalty system must be changed.
An idea: if you get a penalty you should be obligated to clean it in the next 30seconds, otherwise it will automatically add the time to your final race time without any chance of cleaning it.
In this moment is too easy to clean any penalty and get away with it.

 

[KasperVJensen]

On the whole, the system kinda works, but it's just not very intelligent yet.

Perhaps the penalties should be slightly more severe. Or have an awesome daily race that's only available to very clean drivers.

 

[Bigjock85]

Surely PD can write abit of code that detects when someone side swipes you on a straight to stop you getting past? Surely that’s got to be a simple starting point to improving the game. Fed up of seeing people with no intention of driving cleanly when your coming up behind them.

I recently got upto SR A and the difference in attitude between C and B was clearly visible

 

[puupke]

No, please not. If someone lags or just makes an error, and he hits you, i dont wanna have real damage. Have no problem at all with the fairness of drivers.

 

[stevenhiggster]

The penalty system must be changed.
An idea: if you get a penalty you should be obligated to clean it in the next 30seconds, otherwise it will automatically add the time to your final race time without any chance of cleaning it.
In this moment is too easy to clean any penalty and get away with it.

Should make it so that if you don't clear it by the end of your current lap it just gets added to your finish time.
Tbh I would just take away the ability to clear it full stop, it should just be added at the end. Would absolutely suck if you got a penalty that you shouldn't have, as does happen, but I'd accept that to make sure people can't abuse the system.

 

[Mr_dave]

Maybe introduce drive through penalties, or 5 second stop and go, give people time to chill out and think about why they are trundling down the pit lane instead of just carrying on until the end of the race.

 

[Phoenixsui]

The System works fine for me. As long players dont trick to get a high S Rating. We can read in several Threads from Players who drive at the End of the Grid just to farm SR Rating. If they wouldnt abuse the System and just drive where they are supposed to be in the Rating, things would work well. I finally reached a level close to AS where the Races start to be very very clean and fast. I can not see many unfair Manouvers anymore and if i see them it is not by Intention.
Yesterday on Kyoto it was a 10 Lap Side by Side Manufacturer Race Battle with almost 0 Contact. Changing Positions from 14 up to 8. (and sometimes forward and backward in between those Positions) I may changed Position 15-20 Times in a 16 Minutes Race and 80% of the Grid was in between 20 Seconds.
If you cant reach S Rank and hold it you just dont deserve it. It needs always 2 Cars to provoke a accident. Sure sometimes someone crashes you but that should not happen ofthen if you are a very clean driver.
Just my opinion.
Oh and on the Oval it doesnt work, but not because of the Penalty System but because Lags combined with the Speed create extremly unsmoth driving of Opponents, but just on my screen and on his screen its all smooth. Ovals just shouldnt appear on the FIA Track List.

 

[lopescj]

The System works fine for me. As long players dont trick to get a high S Rating. We can read in several Threads from Players who drive at the End of the Grid just to farm SR Rating. If they wouldnt abuse the System and just drive where they are supposed to be in the Rating, things would work well. I finally reached a level close to AS where the Races start to be very very clean and fast. I can not see many unfair Manouvers anymore and if i see them it is not by Intention.
Yesterday on Kyoto it was a 10 Lap Side by Side Manufacturer Race Battle with almost 0 Contact. Changing Positions from 14 up to 8. (and sometimes forward and backward in between those Positions) I may changed Position 15-20 Times in a 16 Minutes Race and 80% of the Grid was in between 20 Seconds.
If you cant reach S Rank and hold it you just dont deserve it. It needs always 2 Cars to provoke a accident. Sure sometimes someone crashes you but that should not happen ofthen if you are a very clean driver.
Just my opinion.
Oh and on the Oval it doesnt work, but not because of the Penalty System but because Lags combined with the Speed create extremly unsmoth driving of Opponents, but just on my screen and on his screen its all smooth. Ovals just shouldnt appear on the FIA Track List.

I understand and agree with all of that.
I have the same experience as you but in this moment is too easy for someone to clean a 10sec penalty on a 10laps race.
The penalty system works fine but needs some tuning.

 

[Rowdy Burns]

Ghosting?

Its not modeled particularly well at the moment but with a bit of adjustment it could be good...... I know its not "REAL" but lets not forget this is a computer game after all!

I have it on in my private lobbies and it works ok

 

[Voodoovaj]

I think there is less "dirty" driving and more oblivious driving.

But, if damage is instituded, the wailing will be epic. Consider that people are already pointing fingers when all they get is a minor penalty. Imagine when you can't run your race anymore because of someone else. I HATE damage rooms because the victim is punished to the same extent or more than the culprit.

Be more aware and watch for jerks.

 

[Solstice93]

I find that I can usually recover from a penalty during a race; however enabling damage would ruin your race entirely and the whinging would be 100 times worse on here as a result.

 

[Corsa]

Full damage is the only way.

I've said it a hundred times, if you want to force people to race clean you HAVE to have a full damage model.
Then when they quit because they can no longer bounce off of **** and win, you must penalty the rage quit.

Any penalty system will always be imperfect it's far too hard to judge without trackside officials.

And scrub ghosting it's useless and extremely annoying.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Damage is not the solution. It's too easy to wreck someone else. Full damage rooms in GT5 on the Nordschleife meant only 3 people left at the end of the race. Sure way to end a room.

Imo the only way to stop bad behavior is force you to give back any positions gained after corner cutting, hard contact or contact resulting in the other car going off road or colliding with another car. Too often the one who makes first contact is the one getting ahead while disrupting the pack. The game should ghost these people and cut engine power until they are behind the person they hit again.

The problem with this is that the penalty system needs to be a lot smarter and identify bad blocking behavior. Suddenly throwing your car in someone's path to stop a pass should punish the one performing a dangerous block and leave the order as is.

It's hard to make it perfect as there are many factors involved yet it would be good to start with the obvious hit and run tactics. Also just let the penalties stand, no more braking before the finish to get rid of the last of a penalty. And please sort out secondary collisions. I'm a very careful driver so most of my penalties now are from people forcing themselves through by cutting the corner or knocking me into the person in front or beside me while following the pack.

 

[marcvic]

I've got another solution; PD could program in a feature where, during a Sport Mode race, if you go below a certain SR threshold during a single race (for example; 10 incidents in one lap) your PS4 catches fire and explodes.

Fire jokes aside, i like the sound of being allowed only a few instances of SR infractions in a single race 👍

 

[AeonGaiden]

Maybe out of the 3 dailys that we have now, make 2 of them only for B and above drivers. Leave only one race per day for C and below. They will be annoyed by only having a limited option and might make them be a better driver to have access to all tracks. Just a thought.

 

[Herrybo79]

Its always the same discussion, all of the "Brutal Sim Racers" don't like the damage things, because there are not real sim racers. I would like to see demage, but not for a 4 Round Race. Also 10 Rounds are not enough. Damage make more sense with 20 Rounds or something, because I can use the Pit.

 

[Corsa]

Damage is not the solution. It's too easy to wreck someone else. Full damage rooms in GT5 on the Nordschleife meant only 3 people left at the end of the race. Sure way to end a room.

Imo the only way to stop bad behavior is force you to give back any positions gained after corner cutting, hard contact or contact resulting in the other car going off road or colliding with another car. Too often the one who makes first contact is the one getting ahead while disrupting the pack. The game should ghost these people and cut engine power until they are behind the person they hit again.

The problem with this is that the penalty system needs to be a lot smarter and identify bad blocking behavior. Suddenly throwing your car in someone's path to stop a pass should punish the one performing a dangerous block and leave the order as is.

It's hard to make it perfect as there are many factors involved yet it would be good to start with the obvious hit and run tactics. Also just let the penalties stand, no more braking before the finish to get rid of the last of a penalty. And please sort out secondary collisions. I'm a very careful driver so most of my penalties now are from people forcing themselves through by cutting the corner or knocking me into the person in front or beside me while following the pack.

This all sounds very merry and looks good on paper but implementing it all is a monumental task.

Project Cars 2 has much of this and it works most of the time.
There have been numerous occasions where I've made a clean pass and the system tells me to give the position back.

I agree it is good, but it's not foolproof.
Damage is 100%.
If everyone on track knows if I make this move and it tears up my car, it may be race ending.
It may require a pitstop to repair therefore I need to be very careful.
Yes the bashers and revenge moves will arrive, that's what the kick button is for.
Damage to me is much more immersive and quite a bit more fun.

 

[Mr616]

This all sounds very merry and looks good on paper but implementing it all is a monumental task.

Project Cars 2 has much of this and it works most of the time.
There have been numerous occasions where I've made a clean pass and the system tells me to give the position back.

I agree it is good, but it's not foolproof.
Damage is 100%.
If everyone on track knows if I make this move and it tears up my car, it may be race ending.
It may require a pitstop to repair therefore I need to be very careful.
Yes the bashers and revenge moves will arrive, that's what the kick button is for.
Damage to me is much more immersive and quite a bit more fun.

No it won't. Because people cannot be trusted, it would result in disgruntled racers deliberately taking someone out to ruin their race. This would happen FACT.

All that qually, the matchmaking wait, the warm up, then BANG, Mr Plum takes you out first corner. This is why damage is not viable as a deterrent. A very harsh SR, with x3 contacts resulting in demotion, and a rigorous way to get back to S is the only way. To many times clean races have got to the last corner before being shunted. Any contact like that should drop you out of S straight away

Damage is not the answer.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

If everyone on track knows if I make this move and it tears up my car, it may be race ending.
It may require a pitstop to repair therefore I need to be very careful.

I agree that full damage could well influence the amount of current risky overtake moves and whether or not to abort many of these based on the probability of receiving damage that carries the penalty of basically ending having a competitive race pace.

Also it would be easy for the game to change the percentage of the amount of damage received based on the SR ranking of the lobby and the higher the ranked lobby the more chance of receiving significant damage for significant contact incidences including off track with a wall or barrier.

This could have a major influence in changing driving habits in the online races with more effect the higher the ranking of the lobby.

 

[TenderLoins]

I agree that full damage could well influence the amount of current risky overtake moves and whether or not to abort many of these based on the probability of receiving damage that carries the penalty of basically ending having a competitive race pace.

Also it would be easy for the game to change the percentage of the amount of damage received based on the SR ranking of the lobby and the higher the ranked lobby the more chance of receiving significant damage for significant contact incidences including off track with a wall or barrier.

This could have a major influence in changing driving habits in the online races with more effect the higher the ranking of the lobby.

Full damage in SR/S would be the thing that makes staying there difficult. Currently it’s way too easy. As you progress through the SR rankings things like ghosting and damage should change incrementally.

At S: No ghosting, full damage, no scrubbing penalties, no autodrive or resets. It would weed out more than half of the S drivers in less than few days because you would actually have to think about consequences when racing.

 

[Corsa]

No it won't. Because people cannot be trusted, it would result in disgruntled racers deliberately taking someone out to ruin their race. This would happen FACT.

Yes they would, and this is where the SRDR could still, the kick button will still...apply.

When they rage quit it negatively affects them to the point you won't be racing with them at all.

PD will never go the full damage route so I guess our disagreements have no weight.

 

[Mr616]

Yes they would, and this is where the SRDR could still, the kick button will still...apply.

When they rage quit it negatively affects them to the point you won't be racing with them at all.

PD will never go the full damage route so I guess our disagreements have no weight.

I reread my post and apologise if I came across as blunt. Not intended.

Damage would bring it's own problems and would be more to "tune" for PD IMO. I can see the threads already, "I barely touched him and I'm out on lap 2", or "how did he not get damaged for this move yet I'm out of the race".

In a perfect world, damage would work. But then again, so would the SR system lol. The higher up the SR you move, the harsher it should get. At S it should be almost zero tolerance on contact IMO.

 

[TenderLoins]

I reread my post and apologise if I came across as blunt. Not intended.

Damage would bring it's own problems and would be more to "tune" for PD IMO. I can see the threads already, "I barely touched him and I'm out on lap 2", or "how did he not get damaged for this move yet I'm out of the race".

In a perfect world, damage would work. But then again, so would the SR system lol. The higher up the SR you move, the harsher it should get. At S it should be almost zero tolerance on contact IMO.

I agree damage would lead to complaing. But, it would be from the same people already complaining because they fail to realize or accept that they might be the problem. I know I’m at fault just as much as I’m the victim. The difference is being able to realize when you’re at fault and learnig to avoid doing it again.

Damage would also help the SR system to work better, making each level more difficult to achieve and maintain.

Yes there will be accidents that were not your fault and possibly end your race. That’s racing.

All the “rubbing is racing” crowd will either eventually realize what they are doing isn’t rubbing but wrecking. Or, they will never spend more than 1 race at SR/S.