Clean driving, a solution

[Be4you]

Nerf the driving aids. I have hardly ever seen a driver bump me without driving aids. U can drive much more aggressive with driving aids active. If u are racing around like a mad man without aids, u will most likely spin out and loose the race. If driving aids, like countersteer assist would slow u down probably. Most ppl needs to be more careful. I have notice much more aggressive driving after the patch that increased grip, and it was probably the same time every one started talking about how good counter steer assist is. Before that, u could just be patient and wait for and error so u could overtake.
I am DR A SR S, not shure if this will help in lower ratings tho.

 

[TenderLoins]

Nerf the driving aids. I have hardly ever seen a driver bump me without driving aids. U can drive much more aggressive with driving aids active. If u are racing around like a mad man without aids, u will most likely spin out and loose the race. If driving aids, like countersteer assist would slow u down probably. Most ppl needs to be more careful. I have notice much more aggressive driving after the patch that increased grip, and it was probably the same time every one started talking about how good counter steer assist is. Before that, u could just be patient and wait for and error so u could overtake.
I am DR A SR S, not shure if this will help in lower ratings tho.

I don’t think the aids are the problem. The lack of consequences is what allows people to continually drive like asshats.

 

[Be4you]

I don’t think the aids are the problem. The lack of consequences is what allows people to continually drive like asshats.

If u bump someone without anny aids, it will give u consequence. U will most likely go off road yourself, and loose the race. I always raced without aids before. And I still do when hotlaping, but when I race online. I have got my race destroyed so manny times from ppl love tapping me in corners and make my car spin out. If u use counter steer assist it’s no problem to correct it. Same is if u bump into other cars.

I don’t have anny thing against aids, but if the car is harder to drive. U have to be a bit more careful to have a successful race.

 

[Potato_Head]

Fire jokes aside, i like the sound of being allowed only a few instances of SR infractions in a single race 👍

In iRacing, for example, you will get Black Flagged at a certain point. I think it's like 17 incidents or something? It's quite a high amount, but they do use it and GT really should implement a system like that too.

 

[TenderLoins]

If you hit someone hard enough to send them off track the consequence should be damage.

Small bumps during a race without CSA on don’t send you spinning. Your reaction to the contact is usually what causes it.

I’ve used CSA on and off and don’t notice a huge difference. I would have no problem with no CSA or ASM in Sport races at Sr/S. But that isn’t going to change the way punters and dive bombers drive. It would most likely make it easier for them.

I do use ABS and TC depending on the car and track. They are used on GT cars in real life and it should always be the drivers option to use them.

If u bump someone without anny aids, it will give u consequence. U will most likely go off road yourself, and loose the race. I always raced without aids before. And I still do when hotlaping, but when I race online. I have got my race destroyed so manny times from ppl love tapping me in corners and make my car spin out. If u use counter steer assist it’s no problem to correct it. Same is if u bump into other cars.

I don’t have anny thing against aids, but if the car is harder to drive. U have to be a bit more careful to have a successful race.

 

[Potato_Head]

The penalty system must be changed.
An idea: if you get a penalty you should be obligated to clean it in the next 30seconds, otherwise it will automatically add the time to your final race time without any chance of cleaning it.
In this moment is too easy to clean any penalty and get away with it.

Yep. But the penalty system itself has to be fixed first. Like going off the track, on the outside of a corner, which naturally costs me time and the game applies a time penalty. Sometimes 10 seconds. It makes no sense. It's almost as if the game applies the same off track logic to reversed tracks as it does to the normal track.

 

[Be4you]

If you hit someone hard enough to send them off track the consequence should be damage.

Small bumps during a race without CSA on don’t send you spinning. Your reaction to the contact is usually what causes it.

I’ve used CSA on and off and don’t notice a huge difference. I would have no problem with no CSA or ASM in Sport races at Sr/S. But that isn’t going to change the way punters and dive bombers drive. It would most likely make it easier for them.

I do use ABS and TC depending on the car and track. They are used on GT cars in real life and it should always be the drivers option to use them.

Problem with Dmg, u can also destroy other cars with purpose. Sr S is to easy to obtain, got it almost right away. And lots of dirty drivers have S rating. When I got my DR to B and A things started to be much better, but harder ofc. Not manny players with DR S that drives like an ass

 

[TenderLoins]

Problem with Dmg, u can also destroy other cars with purpose. Sr S is to easy to obtain, got it almost right away. And lots of dirty drivers have S dr rating used to say more. Not manny players with DR S that drives like an ass

But you would also destroy your own car.

Not many DR/S period.

 

[Be4you]

Yep. But the penalty system itself has to be fixed first. Like going off the track, on the outside of a corner, which naturally costs me time and the game applies a time penalty. Sometimes 10 seconds. It makes no sense. It's almost as if the game applies the same off track logic to reversed tracks as it does to the normal track.

Yea totally agree, I turned outside the road to prevent a crash, got 18 sek penalty. That’s crazy amount of penalty.

But you would also destroy your own car.

Not many DR/S period.

I don’t know how many DR S that is in this game. But when I was driving in C class it was a destruction derby. Accidents happens and that is ok, **** happens. But it’s not hard to tell when it is done with purpose. Especially in long races (10 Laps) ppl race clean in 9,5 laps and rams u in the last corner. And gets away with a blue S after race.

 

[TenderLoins]

I don’t know how many DR S that is in this game. But when I was driving in C class it was a destruction derby. Accidents happens and that is ok, **** happens. But it’s not hard to tell when it is done with purpose. Especially in long races (10 Laps) ppl race clean in 9,5 laps and rams u in the last corner. And gets away with a blue S after race.

Like I said, they drive like asshats because there are no real consequences. If there was full damage that ram on the last lap would ruin their race.

Instead we have a system where you can calculate when to be dirty because without damage it’s extremely flawed and easy to game.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Full damage in SR/S would be the thing that makes staying there difficult. Currently it’s way too easy. As you progress through the SR rankings things like ghosting and damage should change incrementally.

At S: No ghosting, full damage, no scrubbing penalties, no autodrive or resets. It would weed out more than half of the S drivers in less than few days because you would actually have to think about consequences when racing.

I would like to try that. It will not always work yet solves some problems. From what I deal with mostly:
Penalties from overtaking ghosted car resetting on track, no more resets no more problem.
Dodging people intentionally slowing down in the last corner or before the finish to scrub penalties, no more scrubbing, problem gone.
Dodging people turning on auto drive mid race, hit pause should be instant teleport to the pit.

However no ghosting would be chaos at first:
Following closely behind people, they make a mistake and clip the wall, GT Sport likes to bounce them across the road, impossible to avoid.
Same when they push it too hard and spin out. A non ghosted car in the middle of the track is a bad idea.

Damage can also be easily abused:
The biggest offenders atm imo are people cutting corners to get ahead of a group that's closely driving together. They'll bump into the inside car, which won't cause much damage and corrects their course. Yet the other car gets send into the wall ending his race or will take out someone else otw.
Next is those not adjusting their braking point behind a group. You can be careful not the hit the person in front of you. yet if the person behind you doesn't adjust they'll hit you, you hit the one in front, double damage, one in front goes of into a wall, race ending damage.
Then you have the intentionally rubbing other people off the track into a wall.

With damage the one getting hit is almost always worse off than the offender.

Yet I'm willing to try it as an experiment. I would probably do better in the long run as the reckless drivers won't be coming back while you're stuck behind the next group. It's too easy for them now to push it too hard, get reset back on the track at speed and catch up with the pack safely working themselves through corers side by side. Yet the person they take out won't be coming back either.

 

[TenderLoins]

I would like to try that. It will not always work yet solves some problems. From what I deal with mostly:
Penalties from overtaking ghosted car resetting on track, no more resets no more problem.
Dodging people intentionally slowing down in the last corner or before the finish to scrub penalties, no more scrubbing, problem gone.
Dodging people turning on auto drive mid race, hit pause should be instant teleport to the pit.

However no ghosting would be chaos at first:
Following closely behind people, they make a mistake and clip the wall, GT Sport likes to bounce them across the road, impossible to avoid.
Same when they push it too hard and spin out. A non ghosted car in the middle of the track is a bad idea.

Damage can also be easily abused:
The biggest offenders atm imo are people cutting corners to get ahead of a group that's closely driving together. They'll bump into the inside car, which won't cause much damage and corrects their course. Yet the other car gets send into the wall ending his race or will take out someone else otw.
Next is those not adjusting their braking point behind a group. You can be careful not the hit the person in front of you. yet if the person behind you doesn't adjust they'll hit you, you hit the one in front, double damage, one in front goes of into a wall, race ending damage.
Then you have the intentionally rubbing other people off the track into a wall.

With damage the one getting hit is almost always worse off than the offender.

Yet I'm willing to try it as an experiment. I would probably do better in the long run as the reckless drivers won't be coming back while you're stuck behind the next group. It's too easy for them now to push it too hard, get reset back on the track at speed and catch up with the pack safely working themselves through corers side by side. Yet the person they take out won't be coming back either.

It would definitely take some time. The key would be increasing all these things incrementally for each SR level.

By the time you reach SR/S you should be able to trust the other drivers because the only way to get their would be racing clean.

The lack of ghosting would require patience when racing. Giving a little more room to the car in front, lifting early going on into braking zones, not attaching yourself to someones bumper going through the Dragon tail bus stop chicane.

Cutting corners would be deterred by not being able to scrub penalties. Cut enough and you have 20 seconds worth penalties at the end.

Getting to and staying in S would require actual race craft. Passing would be more like a chess match instead of an overtake attempt at every other corner.

I think after ruining their own race again and again, the constant offenders would either give up or change their ways. Unfortunately we’ll probably never find out.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

GT Sport likes to bounce them across the road, impossible to avoid.
Same when they push it too hard and spin out. A non ghosted car in the middle of the track is a bad idea.

The same as the real world. When I am approaching a crash even though the cars are ghosted I adjust my line and speed to avoid the ghosted car. Many times it has cost me a position or two as other drivers never let up and drive through the ghost with no loss of momentum.

Eliminating the ghosting will require ALL drivers approaching the incident to react to an on track situation and is the way it should be. Sometimes you will drive through, other times you will get caught up in it. That is racing, The Thrill of Victory, Agony of Defeat thing in all of its glory.

 

[AdamA998]

I'm about to post yet another example of driver ramming me off last turn on final lap of 10 lap Gr.3 race on purpose and admitting to it in the chat. Telling me 'I had it coming'. And you will the part where I accidentally overtake him and he considered it a dirty move. I keep looking at my rear view because I get rammed off on purpose many times. People are trying unrealistic overtakes or simply just ramming off as you'll see in my radar he was nowhere near me and came flying through and didn't get a penalty.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

It would definitely take some time. The key would be increasing all these things incrementally for each SR level.

By the time you reach SR/S you should be able to trust the other drivers because the only way to get their would be racing clean.

The lack of ghosting would require patience when racing. Giving a little more room to the car in front, lifting early going on into braking zones, not attaching yourself to someones bumper going through the Dragon tail bus stop chicane.

Cutting corners would be deterred by not being able to scrub penalties. Cut enough and you have 20 seconds worth penalties at the end.

Getting to and staying in S would require actual race craft. Passing would be more like a chess match instead of an overtake attempt at every other corner.

I think after ruining their own race again and again, the constant offenders would either give up or change their ways. Unfortunately we’ll probably never find out.

I do all that except the trusting part... However at the Dragon tail chicane it really doesn't matter how much room you have in between. Someone nails the wall, nobody can stop. You already need to leave enough room in hopes ghosting happens in time, there's no stopping that fast. It's more realistic of course to hit the brakes as soon as the yellow flag comes out and not race into that chicane hoping for a clear track. Yet that whole chicane is not realistic, it's a death trap not suited to realistic racing.

It would be nice to have the option though. Daily race C with full damage, no ghosting, no scrubbing penalties, let's see what effect it has.

The same as the real world. When I am approaching a crash even though the cars are ghosted I adjust my line and speed to avoid the ghosted car. Many times it has cost me a position or two as other drivers never let up and drive through the ghost with no loss of momentum.

Eliminating the ghosting will require ALL drivers approaching the incident to react to an on track situation and is the way it should be. Sometimes you will drive through, other times you will get caught up in it. That is racing, The Thrill of Victory, Agony of Defeat thing in all of its glory.

I've driven myself off track avoiding a ghost as you never know when they go solid. Perhaps it's indeed better not to have ghosts as people have zero consideration of how they re-enter the track after an incident. Casually backing up in the road or swerving back into it at high speed. I guess they assume they're ghosted, sometimes they are not.

 

[AdamA998]

0:20 - not sure what that guy was trying, he messes himself up

0:54 - Here is the overtake, he was completing turn then fish tailed and lost speed, overtook him on inside, this was the reason he says he hit me off at the end. After this overtake he was behind me the whole time but couldn't pass me, except at end.

4:30 - Just look at the radar and what follows


.....
.....


You can't fix people like this who just can't race cleanly and not overwork their car.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

^ Well you did block his line causing him to correct quickly. If he hadn't have been paying attention to your position it would have been an accident.
That doesn't excuse that kind of over reaction though.

In this case, the attacker has only their front wing alongside the defender’s rear wheel. The defender has the right to the racing line. A collision at the apex is entirely the fault of the attacker.

https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/

You were at fault and should not have been there. These kind of overtakes happen all the time though and perhaps he had enough of it and took it all out on you. Only when you are halfway or more alongside before the apex, then you have a claim to the apex, otherwise you need to fall in behind.

 

[AdamA998]

^ Well you did block his line causing him to correct quickly. If he hadn't have been paying attention to your position it would have been an accident.
That doesn't excuse that kind of over reaction though.

In this case, the attacker has only their front wing alongside the defender’s rear wheel. The defender has the right to the racing line. A collision at the apex is entirely the fault of the attacker.

https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/

You were at fault and should not have been there. These kind of overtakes happen all the time though and perhaps he had enough of it and took it all out on you. Only when you are halfway or more alongside before the apex, then you have a claim to the apex, otherwise you need to fall in behind.

Look again, I stopped for him and knew I was supposed to be behind him. He then stopped for whatever reason and fishtailed, that's when I took the pass. It was sloppy but I was going really slow and he didn't take the turn.

 

[2011Z]

I don’t know the answer, but I just have to say... I’ve never seen poorer sportsmanship than I do from the GT Sport community. I don’t have time to race a lot bc I’m a man who works for a living, but when I can I try to get on. I was looking forward to the game for so long and now I just want to throw it away and go find a REAL game! PD has failed miserably with their penalty system. I feel like I’m driving with a bunch of spoiled little ****y Teenagers who can’t handle losing!!!

 

[Biggbaddwolf]

Yeah lag can cause some real problems, and it will be hard to distinguish lag from some just being an a$$hole. It's just a game, and chit happens, so I say just leave it as it is...

 

[ScottPuss20]

0:20 - not sure what that guy was trying, he messes himself up

0:54 - Here is the overtake, he was completing turn then fish tailed and lost speed, overtook him on inside, this was the reason he says he hit me off at the end. After this overtake he was behind me the whole time but couldn't pass me, except at end.

4:30 - Just look at the radar and what follows


.....
.....


You can't fix people like this who just can't race cleanly and not overwork their car.

If you know that someone is right behind you heading into a corner, cover the inside line instead of starting wide and going in tight. It may not be as quick but at least you'll keep your place. I've done this plenty of times.

 

[Robbks]

I've fixed the poor drivers, by creating my own rooms.

Practice/Race, 5-10 laps
heavy damage, no Aids (TCS and ABS allowed)
BOP'd cars
Set tyres to RH for GR.3, and get harder from there as you move down

The wall slammers last half a lap of practice then they quit
had some excellent clean racing over the last couple of weeks.

once we have a clean room with 5+ racers, I turn down the damage to we can all push a little harder.
As somewhere like Bathurst, an accidental nudge can ruin two guys races.

 

[Phoenixsui]

Hm I think 1 solution would be to finally nerv the Scirocco and Megane. I wonder what take them so long to do it. I am in A/S B/S Braket now and yesterday on Alsace Gr.4 where the Megane and Scirocco clearly have a big Advantage as 14 of 20 Cars were Sciroccos and Megans and 13 of them in front of all other Cars after the Qualifying.
The Problem is they cant catch me without doing the inside bumping brakeing way to late Thing and it is so annoying. All exept 1 or 2 of the FWDs had a Red SR after that Race. Almost all other Cars had a white or Blue SR in the Endscreen. I really wonder whats so hard to just wait for a opportunity and not slam into other cars every brakingzone...
I wonder if even the S/S Megane and Scirroco do that same thing?
But it is a bit of a confirm what @Be4you said above. These Cars cant Spin out after a agressiv Manouvre like the RWDs and due to this they just keep doing this bumping and also its only possible because they are way to fast in the straights. In all other Cars it is mostly impossible without a error of the leading car.
I find the most unclean driving comes from the FWD Drivers. Or maybe i just cant take it anymore and get agressiv very fast when it happens again. It seems like they think to have the right to overtake you every corner because their car could be faster in the braking zone, and if aou dont realize it you get bumped ...

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Look again, I stopped for him and knew I was supposed to be behind him. He then stopped for whatever reason and fishtailed, that's when I took the pass. It was sloppy but I was going really slow and he didn't take the turn.

At 0:54 what I see on that replay is he brakes early for the optimum line, you brake late appearing to dive into his inside, he gets startled and aborts steering towards the apex for a second which unsettles his car. If he had not temporarily aborted his turn in, you would have collided.

It doesn't excuse his later behavior, and your intention wasn't to dive bomb him, yet who knows how many times it happened before that he finally snapped. It's a risky overtake that can easily be taken the wrong way. It's not penalty worthy, yet you did anger him enough to hit you later...

I always feel bad when I brake just a fraction too late and have to go for the inside like that. It costs a lot of speed since now you have to keep braking to hug the apex and worse risk a collision if the other doesn't make room. I rather wait and line up another faster corner exit to be at least alongside before the next corner. I also usually leave room at the apex sacrificing my corner speed when I suspect the person behind me might run for the inside. It's better than risking a collision or unsettling the car with sudden adjustments. Then I get re payed by them going wide after the apex leaving zero room for me at corner exit lol.

I blame the useless racing etiquette videos, explains nothing.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

If you know that someone is right behind you heading into a corner, cover the inside line instead of starting wide and going in tight. It may not be as quick but at least you'll keep your place. I've done this plenty of times.

You would be amazed and what people think is still an acceptable even more inside line. One wheel on the curb rest in the grass...

As for racing etiquette, it's not a smart move as the outside driver can now easily be ahead of you at the apex and has the right of way. Of course in GT Sport the outside driver usually draws the short end of the stick. You might as well let them pass and pass them again later. If they get away from you then so be it, they were faster and you were in the way. If he is just a bit faster then you can use him as a boost by drafting, catch up with cars further ahead. Defending only slows you down, it's only a good strategy for the sprint races to defend your qualifying position.

It's always a risk no matter what you do. I rather be behind someone then have someone right on my tail. That way I have the luxury to choose the best spot to overtake again and make distance, instead of defending and hoping I don't get hit, while trying to keep my eyes both on the car behind me and the corner in front of me.

 

[Phoenixsui]

Then I get re payed by them going wide after the apex leaving zero room for me at corner exit lol.

Its the sad thruth in 75% of overtakes done by FWD drivers also in B/S and A/S Bracket.

 

[Voodoovaj]

The game has taken a Talladega Nights approach to winning. In other words, if you're not first, your last. Wins are counted, podiums are not. There's no achievement for podiums. There's not trophy for podiums.

There should be. Sure, the wins are best, but every podium ceremony I have ever seen rewards the top three.

That said, I dunno...I'm meh about it...I play the game by the rules. So far, GT is no different than any the real world sports I have played. The officiating can be called into question, but when a call is made, you have to play on. I've made aggressive moves that I have never been penalized for. That's racing.

All this talk about "fixing" the penalty system sounds like whining to me. No one is "fixing" the refs in my soccer league. Talk to the Pittsburg Steelers about "fixing" the refs in the NFL.

Know who you're playing against and play accordingly. I've had close clean racing and I return the favour, because clean is the fastest way around the track. However, if someone gets dirty with me, all bets are off and I will take them out. IMHO, if someone gets rough with you and you don't return the favour, you deserved to lose. This is the way competition is.

Show me a world champion that was Mr. Nice Guy.

 

[Rowdy Burns]

If damage is enabled people will learn where to hit you to force you into a wall etc. This will end your race and they will get away with it. IMO damage will be a massive backward step.

 

[AdamA998]

At 0:54 what I see on that replay is he brakes early for the optimum line, you brake late appearing to dive into his inside, he gets startled and aborts steering towards the apex for a second which unsettles his car. If he had not temporarily aborted his turn in, you would have collided.

It doesn't excuse his later behavior, and your intention wasn't to dive bomb him, yet who knows how many times it happened before that he finally snapped. It's a risky overtake that can easily be taken the wrong way. It's not penalty worthy, yet you did anger him enough to hit you later...

I always feel bad when I brake just a fraction too late and have to go for the inside like that. It costs a lot of speed since now you have to keep braking to hug the apex and worse risk a collision if the other doesn't make room. I rather wait and line up another faster corner exit to be at least alongside before the next corner. I also usually leave room at the apex sacrificing my corner speed when I suspect the person behind me might run for the inside. It's better than risking a collision or unsettling the car with sudden adjustments. Then I get re payed by them going wide after the apex leaving zero room for me at corner exit lol.

I blame the useless racing etiquette videos, explains nothing.

I get your point, I was not used to the Viper, I tried it that match and the stopping power isn't great(unless there is something with my pedals or relying information). I still managed to slow down enough at 0:56 to stop for him and go behind him. You can take that corner going 55mph wide. It is actually better to go wide and taking inside like I did makes you slower. For whatever reason he slowed down or lost control. Prior to that he was slowing me down two laps and blocking me. I think he was frustrated with the pressure I put on him, and I was driving average if not below average that race.

 

[AdamA998]

If damage is enabled people will learn where to hit you to force you into a wall etc. This will end your race and they will get away with it. IMO damage will be a massive backward step.

They just need to improve ghosting and penalty system, it's already very good. It's just that the drivers I don't know if they are frustrated or little kids fooling around or what ....