Communism and Socialism
- Thread starter Duke
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- Ridley-X4
As an American, I think some things are already sort of socialist without being bad things, like various infrastructure, or Medicare. I think a lot of people who get spooked over socialism either don't know what it is, or get freaked out at nations that aren't doing well for reasons other than socialism, like how I hear Venezuela over-centralized its economy on oil. It also doesn't help the image of socialism (and to some extent, communism as well) that the CIA has usually been mucking about, like when they overthrew the Iranian government in '53. That said, I do identify as a capitalist - but I think capitalism needs to evolve if it wants to be favored by future generations of Americans.
UKMikey
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You sound like a reasonable guy but I have a feeling that capitalism has no one guiding force that would make it evolve in the way you're talking about. As I understand it it's just buying and selling, supply and demand. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, though.
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- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
That does make it quite flexible though. Nothing stops you from buying and selling for the good of other people. Capitalism itself might not be driven to evolve but the society around it can be. I think in the US at least there is a lot of room for improvement when it comes to allowing us to help one another.
UKMikey
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You can try and make sure your buying and selling doesn't cause harm to other people but I think people buy and sell primarily becuase of the benefit it brings to themselves. Using their wealth to help other people is charity, not capitalism. As far as I know capitalism and socialism aren't mutually exclusive.
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- Exorcet
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I'm sure that's true in a lot of cases, but there is a lot that you can do with wealth. It's certainly not limited to helping yourself. All you need is some motivation to be altruistic, which isn't hard to come by.
Charity is not capitalism, but it can drive capitalism. I definitely plan to use my money for the good of other people, and it's nothing new to me at this point. It goes hand in hand with improving things for myself.
Elements of socialism and capitalism aren't mutually exclusive and recently I've been trying to push that idea, but not everything mixes. I'd like to avoid as much as possible taking and dividing people's property and resources by law or force.
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Sorry I didn't mean to make it sound like I wasn't acknowledging that.
"I'm sure that's true in a lot of cases"
At the same time I think there is a fair bit of charity in people and I don't see capitalism as something that suppresses that. There are other factors involved in determining how much people are willing to share.
Scaff
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- TexRex72
Murderous dictatorships aren't communism. If the video title describes its contents accurately, it doesn't address the question asked of you.
Communism is a [bad] economic model. Lots of things that aren't communism are frequently ascribed to communism. Murderous dictatorships may or may not also employ communist economic policies, but the two things are separate.
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- NotThePrez
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Well, this is already going about as well as I expected.
Regardless, dropping a 40-minute long video with nothing to really go off of and using that as your "answer" is lazy.
Except that @Dennisch didn't ask you about "every Anti-Communist argument ever," he asked you to explain, in your own words, how Stalin wasn't a dictator who orchestrated the murder of hundreds-of-thousands of his own citizens. I myself would also be curious about that.
Regardless, dropping a 40-minute long video with nothing to really go off of and using that as your "answer" is lazy.
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Joey D
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@Shidapu
With regards to Stalin being a murderous dictator, I'm not sure how you can dismiss the Holodomor genocide as "western propaganda" against communism. Even if it wasn't orchestrated by Stalin specifically, collectivism, a core tenant of communism, certainly amplified the famine. The same thing happened with the Kazakh famine in 1930 through 1933 and the Soviet famine during the same period.
Besides the famines, which were likely man-made, you really can't dispute Stalin's involvement in the Great Purge and the operations carried out by the NKVD where over a million people were killed.
Claiming Stalin wasn't a murderous dictator is ignoring a large part of history and is up there with the people who deny the Holocaust happened. Stalin's reign isn't necessarily indicative of communism either, you can be a murderous dictator and not be communist and vice versa. It just so happens that communist countries often end up extremely authoritarian.
And before you direct me to that video, I'm not even going to click on something that has a title image with a bunch of poorly drawn, cringy memes.
With regards to Stalin being a murderous dictator, I'm not sure how you can dismiss the Holodomor genocide as "western propaganda" against communism. Even if it wasn't orchestrated by Stalin specifically, collectivism, a core tenant of communism, certainly amplified the famine. The same thing happened with the Kazakh famine in 1930 through 1933 and the Soviet famine during the same period.
Besides the famines, which were likely man-made, you really can't dispute Stalin's involvement in the Great Purge and the operations carried out by the NKVD where over a million people were killed.
Claiming Stalin wasn't a murderous dictator is ignoring a large part of history and is up there with the people who deny the Holocaust happened. Stalin's reign isn't necessarily indicative of communism either, you can be a murderous dictator and not be communist and vice versa. It just so happens that communist countries often end up extremely authoritarian.
And before you direct me to that video, I'm not even going to click on something that has a title image with a bunch of poorly drawn, cringy memes.
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