Confused on the new "Expert" seasonal event

[SVPSkins]

Right I've just tried out the new seasonal events (4/9/2014)

I've managed to do the first two but I'm a little confused with the "Expert Level" PP, its for FR cars with 500PP or less, I've just done a run in my Hyundai Genesis 3.8 track with 489PP and finished 6th, yet leading car was a "Ferrari California" but California has 522PP and was in the race? I dont recall AI cars being able to lower there PP so how is it able to race? or am i being dumb blonde again?

 

[nowcontrol]

It's not unusual for a few of the AI front running cars to be above the PP limit, it has been this way for a very long time.

 

[SVPSkins]

hardly seems fair when we players cant use them at full PP, then we lower the PP and do the the "Race" are cars no were near the performance level at the AI using the exact same car. its BS

 

[gtnoobie]

Well, it's because tons of GT players are complaining every race is too easy. Since it seems PD can't create AI capable of challenging most players, they cheat a little by starting race early AND have an edge in PP.

Until they can create truly competitive AI and have a grid start, I dun foresee much changes to this format.

In all fairness, the expert level races are generally challenging for most players. Too easy for some and tough for others. The Ring expert seasonal was one which i believe not all manage a gold. I had tough time nailing that.

 

[SVPSkins]

ok that's fair enough people find it to easy which at times it can be but adding cars that isn't in a PP category is just well, loony.

 

[et_]

If you think its unfair, use the California yourself. There is a power limiter you can use.

A friend of mine did this event in a 427PP Honda S2000, and he is average driver. honestly, it just can't be that difficult. seriously. I dont get it, brake, turn, accelerate, repeat - how can you fail that? If the AI was running 600PP I'd get it, but whining about 20PP? No.

 

[BMWcrazy]

If it's too difficult, you can try using a more competitive car in the 500PP class, turn on SRF, or keep reloading the race until you get easier opponents.

It shouldn't be that hard. IMO, this is probably the easiest expert A-spec race I've played so far.

 

[cbarbosa]

... but adding cars that isn't in a PP category is just well, loony.

Not the first time and wont be the last...

 

[FSportIS]

If you think its unfair, use the California yourself. There is a power limiter you can use.

A friend of mine did this event in a 427PP Honda S2000, and he is average driver. honestly, it just can't be that difficult. seriously. I dont get it, brake, turn, accelerate, repeat - how can you fail that? If the AI was running 600PP I'd get it, but whining about 20PP? No.

Not all are aliens like you Everything is easy.

Anyways, I think I like the way PD use faster cars because as a below average driver like me, I still manage to gold with stock car with way less PP. If PD uses slower cars, the game will be too damn easy.

 

[et_]

Not all are aliens like you Everything is easy.

Anyways, I think I like the way PD use faster cars because as a below average driver like me, I still manage to gold with stock car with way less PP. If PD uses slower cars, the game will be too damn easy.

My point exactley

 

[FSportIS]

My point exactley

I have to admit some (not all) of the expert races are hard for me though. Sometimes it took me several tries and even hours to win with a car at max possible PP. The beginner/intermediate are pretty much easy win with few attempts even with stock cars. How do you the alien think about the difficulty of some expert races? I know it is still easy for you but do you think they set it right for the mass majority?

 

[et_]

Sometimes it took me several tries and even hours to win with a car at max possible PP.

Wrong car m8!

How do you the alien think about the difficulty of some expert races? I know it is still easy for you but do you think they set it right for the mass majority?

I realize you cant really make it competitive, because that would make it impossible for the casual players to win it. However, its called "expert rece" so it should be tough. Some (the 600PP race car at nordschleife) have actually been pretty much spot on in difficulty IMO, however it's the way they make it difficult that bothers me, instead of giving the AI faster cars than is allowed, and a head start of 40 seconds, do a standing start with equal cars, with the difference that you make the AI able to drive properly.

BTW, is there a difference in how the AI drive between the beginner and expert races? or is it just faster cars and longer head starts? I cant spot a difference, they suck everywhere, in every way imaginable.

 

[dddsprayshop]

Yeah, just tried with a genesis, 484pp 399hp, restarted event until i got the california as rabbit.
You must have tuned the genesis, or else you can't have that 489pp
Yes, not easy, but i got it.
What settings did you use?
Do you brake at every corner? Because at some corners you don't need to brake.
I use tractioncontrol at 3.
I use sliprecovery.
and sport soft tires. ( whoeps forgot to write that.)
Maybe i can help you

Klick here, i recorded my run with the genesis including the settings

 

[FSportIS]

Wrong car m8!

I realize you cant really make it competitive, because that would make it impossible for the casual players to win it. However, its called "expert rece" so it should be tough. Some (the 600PP race car at nordschleife) have actually been pretty much spot on in difficulty IMO, however it's the way they make it difficult that bothers me, instead of giving the AI faster cars than is allowed, and a head start of 40 seconds, do a standing start with equal cars, with the difference that you make the AI able to drive properly.

BTW, is there a difference in how the AI drive between the beginner and expert races? or is it just faster cars and longer head starts? I cant spot a difference, they suck everywhere, in every way imaginable.

I totally agree with you that the standing start is way more realistic and fun. I personally enjoy racing side by side, head to head, tail to tail instead of catching rabbits. A lot of time, when I take the lead, I intentionally slow down to make the AIs pass and then I re-pass AIs and let them pass me back and then repeat... This is how I make the race more interesting.

The AIs are actually quite good sometimes once you take the lead. It will run very good and consistent line as fast as you run or as slow as you run until AIs pass you. When I defend my line, it slows down and try to overtake me in another corner. One thing I really like about the AIs is that they ADAPT to the situations. For example, once you take the lead, it will follow you closely and even run your line. If you drive cleanly, it will also drive and pass you cleanly. If you drive dirty or cut corners here and there, it will retaliate and rear end you. That is why some players experience some crazy rear ending behaviors because they made some contacts with the AIs. As long as you make little to no contact to the AIs, they will drive cleanly as well.

My goals with all these seasonal races are: 1. No contact with AIs, clean pass, clean driving 2. Consistent lap times and 3. Win. With these goals in mind, I find it much more fun and challenging to enjoy the game.

The difference between beginner-intermediate-expert race is regard to the AIs aggression. Technically, I believe in beginner's race, the AIs is running may be 70%-80%-90% of the car's limit for beginner-intermediate-expert respectively. Also, the risk level increases with expert race, I see AIs making way more mistakes in expert race than in beginner. For example, they overshoot corner, too late braking after long straight etc. Sometimes they intentionally do that to rear end the players which is again back to my point above.

 

[nowayback]

1. They should make the Expert races much more difficult, Nordschleife(GT5) level. Its just not as fun or stressful to
win with lower pp, srf off lower tires..etc.

2. @et_ , we definitely have a different view of "average" player. I would consider such a player to be between 10000-30000 place on TT. If you consider about 80000 take part. I won with Honda S2000 at 427 PP stock SS , barely, at 8:21 with California rabbit, I usually come around 100-200 in TT's .

3. The Hyundai Genesis@SVPSkins is a nice drive, stock 465PP SS . But if you come 6th you need practice or change car and up PP. You should be doing about 1:32's per lap to win with California rabbit. You must be aggressive with your overtakes. In areas with multiple turns, make sure you get the 1st right to carry speed and correct line thru the next turn. Its a good course for practice, with the Genesis, when you can get a 1:32...33 lap you are on your way..then consistency. good luck .

 

[gtnoobie]

One of the way to make expert race truly so is to shorten the race with the same format if they cannot improve on it further. Imagine if this and previous expert seasonal is 3 or 4 laps instead of 5. Faster payout, much much tougher to win

 

[BMWcrazy]

One of the way to make expert race truly so is to shorten the race with the same format if they cannot improve on it further. Imagine if this and previous expert seasonal is 3 or 4 laps instead of 5. Faster payout, much much tougher to win

I don't think I could win with only three laps. It'd be nearly impossible for me unless the AI slows waaay down.

Even with a fully tuned car, I definitely need at least four laps to pass rabbits like the Viper GTS and C7 Corvette.

I'm usually ranked between 2000-3000 in seasonal TTs, so I imagine shortening it to three or four laps would bring a lot more frustration to the majority of the players like me rather than excitement or fun.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

I'd rather take on a too high PP AI, than the rubberband AI anyday. That is just ridiculous.

 

[dddsprayshop]

I'd rather take on a too high PP AI, than the rubberband AI anyday. That is just ridiculous.

About that "rubberbanding", took me a while to understand what it means.
When you overtake the leader, it's like a rubberband pulls him with you?
And the High PP leader, in this event, is also rubberbanding, not much, but it's there.

Now this is not personal, it's just that you mentioned "rubberband" in this topic.
But what if that rubberbanding wasn't there?
What if the leader floored it from the start?
WIll the phrase "rabbit" change into "rocket"?
Because when i make a little mistake with those rubberbanding AI? I go from 1st to 2nd and loose the gold.

So when rubberbanding is changed, it will we like GT5, or it will floor it and nobody will win a A-spec again.
And if somebody wants to comment:"But they can make a better AI", It's clear they can't right now.
Again, not personal, just thinking: "what if?"


The hardest expert were: The nurburg and the Sarthe, i could just manage.
@SVPSkins has problems with this expert event.

So rubberbanding or not, I use your tecknique now.
Too easy? start 100% stock and at least 80pp below the max value.

There is one thing that bothers me.
In this expert event the competition list states:
M3 '4
Supra RZ '97
Carlton '90

it should be:
California '08
V12 Vantage '10
M5 '05
All three i've had as rabbit and all three are above 520pp

 

[Mt. Lynx]

About that "rubberbanding", took me a while to understand what it means.
When you overtake the leader, it's like a rubberband pulls him with you?
And the High PP leader, in this event, is also rubberbanding, not much, but it's there.

Now this is not personal, it's just that you mentioned "rubberband" in this topic.
But what if that rubberbanding wasn't there?
What if the leader floored it from the start?
WIll the phrase "rabbit" change into "rocket"?
Because when i make a little mistake with those rubberbanding AI? I go from 1st to 2nd and loose the gold.

So when rubberbanding is changed, it will we like GT5, or it will floor it and nobody will win a A-spec again.
And if somebody wants to comment:"But they can make a better AI", It's clear they can't right now.
Again, not personal, just thinking: "what if?"


The hardest expert were: The nurburg and the Sarthe, i could just manage.
@SVPSkins has problems with this expert event.

So rubberbanding or not, I use your tecknique now.
Too easy? start 100% stock and at least 80pp below the max value.

There is one thing that bothers me.
In this expert event the competition list states:
M3 '4
Supra RZ '97
Carlton '90

it should be:
California '08
V12 Vantage '10
M5 '05
All three i've had as rabbit and all three are above 520pp

Nah, the rabbits usually overdo it into corners once you pass them anyway.
The solution would be AI that conforms to the rules layed out for the event, and - as you say - floor it, from the start. Preferably with grid starts.

 

[et_]

The rubberbanding in GT6 is strong, very strong, when you are behind, they can be up to 20 seconds slower per lap compared to when they are ahead. It's just ridiculous.

@nowayback : 10000-30000 is an average player not even trying, if you are trying, even an average player should manage 2000-5000, if you try your best and dont even finish top 5000 I'm sorry but you are below average.


BTW, I think both this and this, should be merged into the A-spec Race Challenges #7 thread. I dont get why people want to start a new thread when there are already a thread to discuss it in.

 

[dddsprayshop]

Nah, the rabbits usually overdo it into corners once you pass them anyway.
The solution would be AI that conforms to the rules layed out for the event, and - as you say - floor it, from the start. Preferably with grid starts.

Yes, but it's clear that it is still not happening.The change for better Ai, that is.

And as @et_ stated, the rubberbanding got worse after PD changed a bit at the AI.

 

[SVPSkins]

If you think its unfair, use the California yourself. There is a power limiter you can use.

A friend of mine did this event in a 427PP Honda S2000, and he is average driver. honestly, it just can't be that difficult. seriously. I dont get it, brake, turn, accelerate, repeat - how can you fail that? If the AI was running 600PP I'd get it, but whining about 20PP? No.

dont think you understand my point. if i did my car wouldn't be as quick stock as the AI.

If you think its unfair, use the California yourself. There is a power limiter you can use.

A friend of mine did this event in a 427PP Honda S2000, and he is average driver. honestly, it just can't be that difficult. seriously. I dont get it, brake, turn, accelerate, repeat - how can you fail that? If the AI was running 600PP I'd get it, but whining about 20PP? No.

dont think you understand my point. i did just that and the AI just pulled away. ive managed to win the race but i only win cuz the lead AI car went off track and up till the car going off i couldn't keep up.

 

[et_]

dont think you understand my point. i did just that and the AI just pulled away. ive managed to win the race but i only win cuz the lead AI car went off track and up till the car going off i couldn't keep up.

Sure, lets say the AI is cheating by using cars above the PP limit, they still drive slower than my grandmother, so I dont see the problem?

 

[alienracing]

Not all are aliens like you Everything is easy.

Anyways, I think I like the way PD use faster cars because as a below average driver like me, I still manage to gold with stock car with way less PP. If PD uses slower cars, the game will be too damn easy.

We aliens have tough times too we just dont let anyone see them

 

[SVPSkins]

Sure, lets say the AI is cheating by using cars above the PP limit, they still drive slower than my grandmother, so I dont see the problem?

not all of them

 

[et_]

We aliens have tough times too we just dont let anyone see them

So true!

not all of them

Yeah, they do. Given we have the same cars, with the same tyres and same PP, I'm usually 10-15 seconds faster PER LAP than they are, even when I'm in front. When I'm behind I'm about 35 seconds faster per lap. That is granny speed right there.

 

[SVPSkins]

3. The Hyundai Genesis@SVPSkins is a nice drive, stock 465PP SS . But if you come 6th you need practice or change car and up PP. You should be doing about 1:32's per lap to win with California rabbit. You must be aggressive with your overtakes. In areas with multiple turns, make sure you get the 1st right to carry speed and correct line thru the next turn. Its a good course for practice, with the Genesis, when you can get a 1:32...33 lap you are on your way..then consistency. good luck .

thank you =) and ur right i can be at times a bit aggressive passing. more down to fact my cars slower and only way past is to take them at there slowest.

 

[rixtar]

I totally agree with you that the standing start is way more realistic and fun. I personally enjoy racing side by side, head to head, tail to tail instead of catching rabbits. A lot of time, when I take the lead, I intentionally slow down to make the AIs pass and then I re-pass AIs and let them pass me back and then repeat... This is how I make the race more interesting.

The AIs are actually quite good sometimes once you take the lead. It will run very good and consistent line as fast as you run or as slow as you run until AIs pass you. When I defend my line, it slows down and try to overtake me in another corner. One thing I really like about the AIs is that they ADAPT to the situations. For example, once you take the lead, it will follow you closely and even run your line. If you drive cleanly, it will also drive and pass you cleanly. If you drive dirty or cut corners here and there, it will retaliate and rear end you. That is why some players experience some crazy rear ending behaviors because they made some contacts with the AIs. As long as you make little to no contact to the AIs, they will drive cleanly as well.

My goals with all these seasonal races are: 1. No contact with AIs, clean pass, clean driving 2. Consistent lap times and 3. Win. With these goals in mind, I find it much more fun and challenging to enjoy the game.

The difference between beginner-intermediate-expert race is regard to the AIs aggression. Technically, I believe in beginner's race, the AIs is running may be 70%-80%-90% of the car's limit for beginner-intermediate-expert respectively. Also, the risk level increases with expert race, I see AIs making way more mistakes in expert race than in beginner. For example, they overshoot corner, too late braking after long straight etc. Sometimes they intentionally do that to rear end the players which is again back to my point above.

I totally agree with you that the standing start is way more realistic and fun. I personally enjoy racing side by side, head to head, tail to tail instead of catching rabbits. A lot of time, when I take the lead, I intentionally slow down to make the AIs pass and then I re-pass AIs and let them pass me back and then repeat... This is how I make the race more interesting.

The AIs are actually quite good sometimes once you take the lead. It will run very good and consistent line as fast as you run or as slow as you run until AIs pass you. When I defend my line, it slows down and try to overtake me in another corner. One thing I really like about the AIs is that they ADAPT to the situations. For example, once you take the lead, it will follow you closely and even run your line. If you drive cleanly, it will also drive and pass you cleanly. If you drive dirty or cut corners here and there, it will retaliate and rear end you. That is why some players experience some crazy rear ending behaviors because they made some contacts with the AIs. As long as you make little to no contact to the AIs, they will drive cleanly as well.

My goals with all these seasonal races are: 1. No contact with AIs, clean pass, clean driving 2. Consistent lap times and 3. Win. With these goals in mind, I find it much more fun and challenging to enjoy the game.

The difference between beginner-intermediate-expert race is regard to the AIs aggression. Technically, I believe in beginner's race, the AIs is running may be 70%-80%-90% of the car's limit for beginner-intermediate-expert respectively. Also, the risk level increases with expert race, I see AIs making way more mistakes in expert race than in beginner. For example, they overshoot corner, too late braking after long straight etc. Sometimes they intentionally do that to rear end the players which is again back to my point above.

From having watched a lot of replays "sitting" in the AI car it seems that the artificial intelligence in the game has multiple levels of characteristics and ability. It's not as simple as the AI performance being dependent on the power or type of car it is driving. I suspect that there is a range of "bots" that make up the AI drivers, from beginner to pro. The driver names the AI uses might even be associated with the different levels, but I haven't looked into this.

Sometimes the AI "bots" drive quite well. Sometimes they drive terribly. You can see it by viewing the replay from their perspective. Also, often after thinking that the AI has unfairly rammed me off the track, reviewing it from the AI car's perspective shows that in fact it was mainly my fault for ignoring racing rules eg cutting them off, not leaving enough room for overtaking, braking too early etc.

I agree that the rubberbanding effect is there, but on the other hand when I am leading a race comfortably, I tend to back off a bit. When I am behind I speed up. It is human nature to do so. With the AI, though, it does tend to back off too much!

As to having standing starts available, I really believe that it isn't done because of the hardware constraints that the ps3 has. When standing starts are used in career mode, the cars are all of the same type (I think this is true), which would significantly reduce the processor load in the ps3. When standing starts are used online, it is a bit different, as most of the racing processing is done on the server side, not the ps3, and thus the hardware limits of the ps3 don't have such a limiting effect.

Anyway, that's what I've found.

 

[SVPSkins]

From having watched a lot of replays "sitting" in the AI car it seems that the artificial intelligence in the game has multiple levels of characteristics and ability. It's not as simple as the AI performance being dependent on the power or type of car it is driving. I suspect that there is a range of "bots" that make up the AI drivers, from beginner to pro. The driver names the AI uses might even be associated with the different levels, but I haven't looked into this.

Sometimes the AI "bots" drive quite well. Sometimes they drive terribly. You can see it by viewing the replay from their perspective. Also, often after thinking that the AI has unfairly rammed me off the track, reviewing it from the AI car's perspective shows that in fact it was mainly my fault for ignoring racing rules eg cutting them off, not leaving enough room for overtaking, braking too early etc.

I agree that the rubberbanding effect is there, but on the other hand when I am leading a race comfortably, I tend to back off a bit. When I am behind I speed up. It is human nature to do so. With the AI, though, it does tend to back off too much!

As to having standing starts available, I really believe that it isn't done because of the hardware constraints that the ps3 has. When standing starts are used in career mode, the cars are all of the same type (I think this is true), which would significantly reduce the processor load in the ps3. When standing starts are used online, it is a bit different, as most of the racing processing is done on the server side, not the ps3, and thus the hardware limits of the ps3 don't have such a limiting effect.

Anyway, that's what I've found.

think you're right ont he "characteristics and ability" part. ive notest that if i nudge a car alot just for fun and i pass it it then speeds up turns the nudging.