Corkscrew. ('nuff said)

[Bulldozer]

Me asking for help again. Y'all getting tired of it?

Laguna Seca corkscrew, I really want to learn how to get through this smoothly. It's got a lot going on - a tight double curve, the big downhill drop, and the excessive crown (sloping off from the middle to the left and right sides.)

Right now I get through one of 3 ways:
1) fly through too fast, launch in to the far wall sideways, and limp away
2) straighten the curve out as much as possible: start at the left, go through diagonally with as little steering as possible.
3) take a 'normal' line but creep through very slowly

I've stopped doing method 1 at least.
Method 2 I kind of picked up from the demo on a license test. It might be the best method overall but I have trouble controlling my car on exit. I think that coming from the crown to the downhill section unweights the car, and I have no traction to steer with. I either fishtail or hit a wall.
Method 3 gets me through without serious bodily harm, but loses races. And I can get hit by AI cars if I'm too slow. So far my attempts to speed it up just result in spinouts (turning left.) Again I think it's the slope messing with traction as I transition from the first half to the second half.

But enough about how I'm screwing it up. How do I do it right?

(I'm generally driving medium powered FR cars like the Denso Supra or C5R, if that matters. But I'd also be interested in hearing about how you'd take things differently in other types of cars.)

Thanks.

 

[TuneRVisioN]

Try slowing down on the right side of the track, then use light throttle in the turn entry. Then use the right curbing on turn 2 of the corkscrew while turning right, using medium-full throttle. Using the curbing helps you get better lap times, since you are cutting corners effectively. Go from the right side of the track, to the inside of corner 1, then inside of corner 2.

 

[Duke]

Brake hard and be well slowed before you top that little rise that launches you. Start as far to the right as you can without touching the right side curbing before the first turn. Turn in a little late for a late apex on the first half, and let the car coast a little. Just when you apex the first half, as the car rolls over the big crest, dial in a fair amount of right lock and aim to apex up on the inside curbing of the right hander. Smoothly feed in the power as the car heads down hill, and again, stay in a higher gear than you might think.

 

[TuneRVisioN]

Sorry to get off-topic, but it's cool that mods are still watching over and posting to the GT1-3 subforums, no matter how dead they are.

I forgot to add the part where you can't hit that high curbing on the right, right before the corkscrew. That will make your car FLY!

 

[breakpoint]

What duke said, just make sure you aren't giving it heavy breaks when you apex the hill before turn one or your rear end will step out easy:tup: Good ol' weight transfer.

 

[Bulldozer]

I forgot to add the part where you can't hit that high curbing on the right, right before the corkscrew. That will make your car FLY!

I did a search on 'corkscrew' (belatedly Sorry, Duke) and one person said they always aim for those high curbs. Then they can take the corkscrew on two wheels. That makes them narrower, so they can take an even straighter line through the S.

I suspect he might have been kidding.

I've been using the license test to practice, IA-5 I think it is. You're right, using the curbing at both ends does help a lot. I can make it cleanly if I don't push too hard. Light throttle and coasting over the crest keep the weight even on the tires, so I don't spin out in the transition from the first half to second half.

Then there's that license test demo. It takes the same line, but so much faster. When I try to go that fast (trying to get silver) and carry that kind of speed through the corkscrew the car never gets a chance to settle and I'm out of control again.

Maybe I'll try a few different races at Laguna with a few different cars, and try for silver another day. At least I know how to get through it cleanly and in control. Thanks for the help.

It really is cool to have a few regulars who are willing to help out new players on an old game. I appreciate it. 👍

 

[TuneRVisioN]

Any time, this site is willing to help out people more than other sites usually do, even with some dead sub-forums.

You are welcome, just post whenever you have a problem, atleast when you ask for help, you post exactly what you are having trouble in, rather than just saying, "I can't take this corner!! Please Help!!"

 

[Bulldozer]

I thought I might be talking too much, but I guess it helps you know just what my problem is.

So I've got this crazy idea of trying to do the Laguna Enduro. But I'm worried about the Team Oreca Viper. Actually, I just don't know what car I would use. I'm thinking that any car that's powerful enough to keep up with the Viper, it'll be too much car for me to handle. I still want to try it though. Any suggestions? Here's a few of the cars in the garage that I think might do the trick:
Altezza LM
Raybrig or Arta NSX
Loctite Zexel
RUF RGT or CTR2
Esprit sport 350 (too twitchy?)
C5R (tire-chewer?)
GT-One road car or 787B (overkill?)
or win a Viper of my own and use that?

 

[TuneRVisioN]

The Altezza LM would be the right car to use, even though you can turbo it to get 1000+HP! It is kind of over kill but not by too much.

 

[Duke]

I thought I might be talking too much, but I guess it helps you know just what my problem is.

Not at all. I'd rather answer 5 detailed questions rather than 50 "my skyline wont turn it just spins out why does this car suck" posts.

So I've got this crazy idea of trying to do the Laguna Enduro.

Actually, I love the GT3 enduros. They're a great way to learn a track. I really like to get into a groove, and that's the best way to do it. If you haven't already, I suggest you run the Roadster Enduro at Apricot Hill. Any Miata on R1 tires will do it easily, with a single pitstop at the halfway point (lap 20). But, back to the point...

But I'm worried about the Team Oreca Viper. Actually, I just don't know what car I would use. I'm thinking that any car that's powerful enough to keep up with the Viper, it'll be too much car for me to handle. I still want to try it though. Any suggestions?

I eventually chose the Panoz Esperante racer.

Altezza LM - Should do the trick, but it's not my favorite car
Raybrig or Arta NSX - These would be good; I love both cars; may need a little extra power
Loctite Zexel - Not a big fan of the Skyboxes, except maybe the Calsonic
RUF RGT or CTR2 - Gonna be tougher in a street car: downforce rules
Esprit sport 350 (too twitchy?) - Probably, and again a street car
C5R (tire-chewer?) - Skip it: you'll be tired of pitting with red fronts and green rears, plowing like a barge
GT-One road car or 787B (overkill?) - Yeah, overkill
or win a Viper of my own and use that? - I love the Oreca Viper, but I'd go for something else

I think the Raybrig or Arta NSX would be a good deal, on T3 tires, and pitting about every 8-10 laps. You'll need to turn consistent 1':19.low" laps when tires are good in order to win this one.

Good luck and let us know how it works out!

 

[Bulldozer]

I like the Altezza LM. And I forgot to mention the Denso Sard Supra. They've both got nice handling for their power levels, in my humble opinion. And I've been staying away from stage 4 turbo - it usually makes cars too hard to control (for me).

If and when I get crazy enough to try this, I'll let you know how it turns out.

Edit 'cause I didn't see Duke's post before I hit reply:

I think the Raybrig or Arta NSX would be a good deal, on T3 tires, and pitting about every 8-10 laps. You'll need to turn consistent 1':19.low" laps when tires are good in order to win this one.

Yikes. Well, I'll probably need more practice then. Maybe I'll see whether I can do better with the Altezza or one of the NSX's.

 

[TuneRVisioN]

You should acquire the FTO LM or the Subaru LM, since they are 4WD, but the fronts get rear a little quicker than the rear. Thats better than the rears getting burnt faster than the fronts. Trust me, atleast you can control the car when the fronts are red, but you would have almost no steering on tap. When rear tires are cooked first, then you would spin if you don't feather the throttle, or even just turning.

 

[Duke]

Thats better than the rears getting burnt faster than the fronts. Trust me, atleast you can control the car when the fronts are red, but you would have almost no steering on tap.

GAH! I hate it when the fronts cook faster.

First off, I hate understeer with a passion, so I'd much rather nurse the car around half a lap on gentle throttle than have it plow off the outside of every turn.

Second, if the rears cook first, you can always stagger your tires and put a harder compound on the back. This evens out your heat cycle without adding understeer to the balance of the car when the tires are good. If your fronts go bad first and you go to a softer compound on the back, it just makes the understeer problem worse.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I thought I might be talking too much, but I guess it helps you know just what my problem is.

So I've got this crazy idea of trying to do the Laguna Enduro. But I'm worried about the Team Oreca Viper. Actually, I just don't know what car I would use. I'm thinking that any car that's powerful enough to keep up with the Viper, it'll be too much car for me to handle. I still want to try it though. Any suggestions? Here's a few of the cars in the garage that I think might do the trick:
Altezza LM
Raybrig or Arta NSX
Loctite Zexel
RUF RGT or CTR2
Esprit sport 350 (too twitchy?)
C5R (tire-chewer?)
GT-One road car or 787B (overkill?)
or win a Viper of my own and use that?

Any of these cars can do it. But the Toyota GT1 and Mazda 787B are definitely overkill. I guarantee after about 10 laps you'll be far ahead of everyone and bored. The RUFs are a bit heavy and don't have modifyable downforce; my guess is they would chew some tires. The Esprit is lighter but again I don't think the downforce can be played with. That leaves the Corvette C5R, NSX, or Altezza LM.

The trick to enduros is consistency. Drive a little slower at first, observe when the leading car makes a pitstop. If the leader stops on lap 8 for instance; then generally it will always go about 8 laps before stopping again. Now you can do a bit of pit-strategy on your own! Drive a bit harder when when you get a good consistent "flow" going with the track. You'll soon have your braking & turning points down pat, and you can actually clobber the Ai with clever driving and pit-timing instead of loads of horsepower; but this is your call.

Also you should know if you're scared of the Viper, you can always keep resetting the race till it doesn't show up.

And I've been staying away from stage 4 turbo

When you start to get good at GT games, you'll be surprised how rarely you'll need to be using the best parts. 👍 Some races in GT3 pro-level actually do require tons of horsepower , but not the enduros!

 

[Bulldozer]

I've been experimenting with different cars and getting some practice in. In the amateur league there are Laguna races with and without tire wear, although the longest is only 5 laps.

I'm still not consistent. I think I'm gonna need a little hp advantage to make up the

I'm guessing the AI runs on T5's for those 5 lap races. If I can keep up with them on T2's, I'll feel pretty confident. That is, unless the AI gets a driving skill boost in the enduro. Do they? I ran the first 20 laps of the enduro and saw them run off the road a couple times, so maybe not.

I've tried all those cars I listed and a few others. You guys were right about the street cars - the CTR2 was pretty fast, but needed a lot of braking to take the turns. The Elise 190 didn't need as much braking distance, but isn't that powerful and, like you said, no downforce really hurts. (It would be great in the Rome enduro, though. hmmm....)

I tried the S2000 race car. Handles great, but the horsepower maxes out at 355. Maybe a great driver could carry enough speed through the turns to make up for the low hp, but I'm not that good. (Besides, when you hit the 180 mile mark you lose some power, and then this car would be creeping.)

I tried a Ford Focus Rally Car (powered up). It did pretty well, actually.

I also tried a Camaro Race Car (with a lot of hp).Since the front tires are gonna burn up fast, I thought I'd try running T2 Front and T3 Rear. This would make the first few laps after a pit stop kind of interesting with blue T2's up front and green T3's in the back. But even then I think the there's enough weight in front that understeer won't be too bad. (Might work with the Corvette, too.)

This is the combo I tried for the 20 lap trial run. When the Viper pitted at 8, it put me in the lead, but he caught me again around lap 10 or 11 when I screwed up a couple of laps. When I wasn't screwing up I could keep up with him pretty well. But I still didn't get ahead of him until he pitted at lap 16. My front tires were yellow-orange and the rears were solid orange, but I didn't want to pit and give him the lead. Instead I gave him the lead by spinning out. Twice. But I really think that had more to do with my driving than the tires.

My best lap time was 1:19.1xx, which should be faster with this car. My sloppy laps were 1:22 or 1:23. Yuck. But I really got killed when I spun out and had lap times of 1:28 or 1:30.

Anyway, I like the NSX's better than the Camaro, and I think I like the Calsonic Skyline even better. Though maybe I just have more practice with it. (BTW - is there any difference between the Calsonic Skyline and the Loctite Zexel? Doesn't seem like it to me.)

Maybe I'll just use a Calsonic and try not to race against the Viper. I just hope I don't get that Vertigo with the magic tires that last for 37 laps!

 

[TuneRVisioN]

There is no difference between any JGTC, except paint. But that is an exception with the Pennzoil Skyline. That has more HP, but also 100Kg heavier than other Skyline JGTC's. The Elise doesn't need downforce IMO. It can turn at much higher speeds than most street cars. But it can over steer a bit. The Motor Sport Elise is much faster fully modded though, and the wing on it IRL gives a little downforce at the rear, and in GT4, but I don't think it does in GT3...

 

[Gil]

Back on topic, the braking point leading into the corkscrew is at about the second yellow banner on the right side of the track.
You can experiment braking anywhere from there to "shed" on the left side of the track. If you wait till you're at the braking markers, you will likely over cook the turn.
This isn't an absolute, to be sure, but sort of a starting place as you suss out the track.

 

[TuneRVisioN]

Yeah, using an MR car can be a little tricky here, since the rear has little weight for grip when braking, especially on that slight hill right before the corkscrew, meaning that if you brake while turning, expect to countersteer, or just make sand castles. MR cars have lift off throttle oversteer, causing them to drift while off the gas, while steering correctly when flooring it. Best shown in the Renault Clio V6.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

It's been well over 6 months since I did the GT3 Laguna Seca 200 miles so I re-visited my notes on it:

You may be able to turn a fast qualifying lap. The question is: can you do it 90 times?

This race is similar to the GT2 version, the main difference from the GT2 is the lack of JGTC cars. Instead, you'll be racing mainly against Americans. Also, this is the first race in which your oil / maintenance light really makes a difference. Make sure you get an early lead because your power will begin to sap after 150 miles or so and whatever car is 2nd will start to gain on you. The key to this enduro with my system: drive hard, don't let up even if you get bored! And take pit stops just before those tires go red. Go as long as you can on those tires, man.

I was really disappointed after my line-up grid listed an Esperante GTR-1, which drove poorly and put up no fight whatsoever. The Corvette can lead early but has to pit 2 laps earlier than your main competition; a Dodge Viper Oreca. It would be great if these 3 were somehow battling with you for 1st, but for most of the 90 laps-only the Viper leads far ahead of the AI. Kinda boring.

Try using {T5} Medium grade tires on a highly-powered car, this will keep you up where the action is. Use harder tires that will last longer on lesser-powered cars to try and go for pit-stop strategy.

As you can see I used T5s for my own personal challenge, so using harder tires will guarantee you less pit-stops. Get your cornering down (no major slides or spins) and you should be showing that Viper who's boss. And like I said, any of those cars listed before (plus the Camaro Race Car) should eventually get you home.

The Focus? My experience is it has superior cornering & braking (with 4-wheel drive too) but in the long run i'm not sure if it has the power you may need.

 

[Duke]

If you read my writeup, you'll also note that you need to be careful of the Vertigo racer. It's not the quickest lapper, but it pits exactly twice in the entire race - a 37-lap interval. So avoid having it in the field, too.

 

[Bulldozer]

I did read that, Duke. That's why I said "Maybe I'll just use a Calsonic and try not to race against the Viper. I just hope I don't get that Vertigo with the magic tires that last for 37 laps!" Almost makes me want to try the Vertigo myself. Except later in the thread Justin_G tried the Vertigo and he had better luck with T5s and pitting every 8 or 9 laps.

 

[Bulldozer]

Failure (boo), and then success (Yay!).

I entered the Loctite Zexel with stage 2 turbo (638 hp, I think) and T3 tires. The lineup included the Viper and the Vertigo, but I wanted to see if I could hang, so I went for it. And gave up after 44 laps. Long story short, The Viper was gaining a little over 2 seconds on every lap. And I couldn't make up that kind of time by pit strategy. (2 sec X 90 laps = 180 secs and I figured I'd only save 120 seconds in the pits.) Besides, I fluffed a few turns (mostly by letting the rear end slide around, though sometimes the other drivers were involved). Anyway, I was way behind by the halfway point, and it didn't look like it would improve, so I bailed.

At least I never spun out on the corkscrew. 👍

Started over with the same car and tires, deciding I would pit every 18 laps (18, 36, 54, and 72). This time Viper was absent, but the Vertigo still showed up. I was wonder whether he had those magic 37 lap tires. Well, Duke was only running 409 hp when he faced the Vertigo, maybe I'll try it.

It was basically the opposite of the first time through. The Vertigo was pitting half as much as I was, which saved him about 15 seconds over 36 or 37 laps. But I was faster by at least a second, (sometimes 3 seconds) on each lap.

I was only 10 seconds ahead when I made my first pit stop, so that gave the Vertigo the lead. I caught and passed him 3 or 4 laps later. I wanted to get 15 seconds ahead of him before my next pit so I'd keep first place, but instead decided to just wait and pit with him on lap 37. So I stayed in first place for the rest of the race. It was odd because, even though I was ahead, I had to keep watching and make sure I was building up a good margin for my extra pit stops (and inevitable screw-ups).

The only major scare was around lap 70 when my tires were getting pretty orange and the C5R was close behind me. I was fishtailing a little coming out of a turn, the Vette caught up and gave me a little nudge. I ended up sideways, and two other cars plowed into me and stuffed me into a corner. The only thing I was thinking about was how much of my lead time had evaporated. I went from +28:xx to +15:xx - still a decent lead.

I kind of zoned out until lap 80. No more pitting for either me or the Vertigo. I ended up winning by about 40 seconds. I think I had 2 laps on the Vette and maybe 7 on the CLK. Sorry, I didn't keep track of all the details. How do you guys do that? I do remember that I my best lap was 1:17.800 and it wasn't even on green tires. But most of my times were closer to 1:20.

And I still didn't spin out on the corkscrew.

Oh, I won another Calsonic. I haven't decided whether to sell it, or sell the Loctite that I raced in, now that the engine's degraded.

Not the most exciting race report, but though you all might want to hear how it turned out after I've been talking about it so much these last few days.

 

[Der Alta]

Smoothly feed in the power as the car heads down hill, and again, stay in a higher gear than you might think.

This is one piece of info I've always used.

In my GT3 heydays, I was never good at this passage. In fact much so that, I frequently lost 1+ seconds to other people at this point. I'd be faster throughout the rest of the track and lose it here, only to finish within hundreths.

Perhaps one of the toughest corners in GT3.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Not the most exciting race report, but though you all might want to hear how it turned out after I've been talking about it so much these last few days.

Hey at least you got LS out of the way! As you can tell it wasn't one of my favorites. As I said before, try the Miata/MX5 enduro and the Rome enduro (make sure the TVR and Renault Clio both show up). I think you were talking of driving a Lotus Elise 190. That should be a good car to drive at Rome.

 

[Bulldozer]

Hey at least you got LS out of the way! as you can tell it wasn't one of my favorites. As i said before, try the Miata/MX5 enduro and the Rome enduro (make sure the TVR and Renault Clio both show up). I think you were talking of driving a Lotus Elise 190. That should be a good car to drive at Rome.

I kind of like the Laguna track now, but the enduro would be more fun with a better lineup of competitors.

Thanks again to everyone that helped me learn the corkscrew and gave me advice on the race. 👍

I'm interested in Rome, Parnelli. The TVR seems to be the one to beat. It's got a stock P/W ratio of 3.2. (All the competitors are stock in the enduros, true?) The Elise has 3.7 for a stock P/W ratio. Should I upgrade? I think I'll go search for race reports.


And everybody seems to like the Miata enduro. Maybe because the competitors are evenly matched? I'll try that one too, when I get a chance.

 

[TuneRVisioN]

Yeah, the miata endurance was great, it lets you enjoy driving a slow car, kind of relaxing. 👍

And yeah, fix up your Lotus Elise, I think you should go for the motorsport elise for slightly more stability.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Very cool, glad you like Laguna Seca. That's a bonus--you'll be doing lots of racing there in any GT game except the first one.

So far, I've done Rome in a Mustang Cobra R with about 380 horses and sport tires, a '92 Nissan Silvia K's with about 311 horses and a combo of T3s and T4s, and a Lancer which weighed about 2,800 pounds (335 hp...no info on tires). I used a semi-racing suspension on all of these.

Cars that handle well with minimal sliding and wheelspin can be on sports, cars that are prone to sliding & other issues (like the Silvia) need some sort of slicks. I recommend racing against both the Clio and TVR even tho the TVR is the fastest because both of these cars tend to change lead several times during the race and it makes things interesting to the point that you forget the race is 2 hours. But the TVR always wins or makes 2nd place (sorry to spoil the surprise).

OH, and no matter what..PAY ATTENTION TO THE TIME! If you need tires at 1 hour and 58 minutes for instance but the TVR threatens to take your lead if you pit, DON'T PIT! Just stay in the race till the clock ticks past 2:00.000. Hopefully you've got yourself enough of a lead that orange tires won't cause you to lose your lead.

The Miatas in the MX5 enduro range from 118 hp to about 150 hp, but the strongest MX5 is on softer tires and tends to take a pit every 3 or 4 laps. Dumbass! I entered the weakest Miata I could find, bought sport tires for it, and wound up with an awesome race because the ai MX5 was faster than me but had to keep pitting, and I was slower but only had to pit every 8 or 9 laps I think. 👍

 

[breakpoint]

I think i might do the Miata enduro tonight. I haven't done an actuall race in GT games in about 2 years now. Ive been a free run drifting mad man....

 

[Bulldozer]

It sounds like you try to take the economic approach - buying sports tires if you don't need slicks and going with the semi-sports suspension instead of the FC version. That's an interesting approach, but I like the FC suspension because of all the stuff I can tweak. Although that probably just gives me more ways to screw up my car.

Thanks for the tip on pitting near the end of the race. I hadn't thought of that.

 

[TuneRVisioN]

Yeah, if you have a car that is complete overkill in the Rome endurance, you only have to drive about 184 Miles. Also your oil light comes on at 186 Miles. So you can just miss the oil light at 186 Miles and still win the race, you can also wait by the finish line if you are way ahead of everyone, until it hits 2 hours. Just a few thoughts...