Course Maker in GT6?

[Griffith500]

It's pretty obviously a non-issue. Just the same that LFS's cars, whilst by no means actual rip-offs, being inspired by a mish-mash of real-world cars is also a non-issue. GTA, on the other hand, clearly rips-off / takes the piss out of / pays homage to real world cars, and it doesn't seem to have had any bother.

 

[Samus]

There are also games that produce near identical versions of tracks without a license and have no legal problems, they just have to make sure all the names and advertising etc is fictional. If they can do that there is no reason we can't make rough versions of real tracks bearing in mind they'll never be close to the aforementioned properly built unlicensed versions.

 

[avens]

A track editor is not illegal no matter how complex, no court cases will be brought upon PD or Sony if somebody made a replica track. It has been tried several times before, all failed to even make a court room because the judges instantly threw them out as the tracks were not being made by company and to try and ban a track editor is in contravention of the law surrounding the right to innovation under the W.I.P.O Agreement which is signed by over 150 nations.

IF Sony and PD decide not to include a better track editor, then it is because they cannot be bothered to develop one. Legal issues will not factor in their decision.

Which is why it is a potential issue, nothing more nothing less. Being brought into courts before ends up in it being an aspect to consider, particularly for big companies.

 

[gamerdog6482]

Which is why it is a potential issue, nothing more nothing less. Being brought into courts before ends up in it being an aspect to consider, particularly for big companies.

Then why is the Chevrolet Corvette (C6) (Both the Z06 and ZR1) RM almost an exact replica of the C6.R livery? Are they getting sued for that? No.

 

[TomBrady]

EITHERWAY I STRONGLY BELIEVE TRACK CREATOR SHOULD RETURN.

I honestly will be severly angry if it isn't. Even if it's in its current form, it's still a amazing feature regardless of it's drawbacks. No matter how you look at it, it's still basically like having an unlimited amount of tracks and I see that as a HUGE bonus in any racing game.

Some more control would be cool but I also wouldn't want it to take an hour just to make a single track.

BRING COURSE MAKER BACK!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ZZ-II]

i want a real track editor with more or less unlimited possibilitys!

 

[grog]

I'd like to see themes that dont use fences or very very short fences if they must use them. They could even place them farther away from the track as well.
I also hope they can eliminate the invisible walls at Toscana tracks (when you run wide near before the pit lane).

Toscana doesn't have much for fencing or barriers. That makes it a very pretty theme , but more importantly it makes it possible to see what is coming around the corners.
On the other extreme are the Efiel barriers and even taller chain link fences which make seeing what is coming ahead very difficult. Flat tracks seem to be worse since you rarely get up high enough to see over the fence.

There is also the issue of these fences getting closer to the track in some sections. In the transition to a narrower section (just the fence not the actual track width) there ends up being a bit that is angled like this ____/. It's very easy to end up Hitting these points when they end up at the corner exit or high speed kink. If the fence could just follow track without getting wider or narrower it would be and improvement, more runoff would be nice too.

 

[goukipau]

I onlywant a track editor, if you can design tracks yourself, and NOT like in GT5, that was really bad...
Kaz even priced the Modnation track editor btw. Im only hoping he can make such thing in GT6, else completely leave out the track editor.

 

[Whistle Snap]

There's a PC editor that imports Google Map data and automatically builds the layout, lets have that in GT6. Also options to adjust elevation and camber, scenery packs and the jobs a good'un.

 

[Watt2159]

They should just ask United Front if they could borrow their course creator, and make it a little more "down to earth"

 

[driftking9]

As the other yaysayers have said, the Course Maker should return in GT6, but be extensively improved. In particular, giving us the creative freedom of the course maker in ModNation Racers is the way to go. In HD of course. Giving us some basic tools for forming terrain, dropping in elements like trees, spectator stands, buildings, railing and fencing, pit lanes, and as Simon grouched about, braking and curb markers would allow us to get something resembling missing tracks many of us have asked for. Like classic GT tracks such as Red Rock Valley, or real life similitudes such as Road America or Atlanta. Heck, if they put map makers in shooters, why not a serious course creator in GT6?

I totaly agree with you i would also like to see a selection of different bumps in the road , the ability to put them where you want and how many you want, gt5 course maker track are so dull they are so even and clean its boring to drive

 

[daus26]

We can't keep comparing a cartoonish game to a realistic, heavily-detailed game, unless you want to drive a premium car on a track with modnation graphics.

 

[CodeRedR51]

We can't keep comparing a cartoonish game to a realistic, heavily-detailed game, unless you want to drive a premium car on a track with modnation graphics.

I don't think you get why they are comparing it...

Features alone, not graphics and/or graphics style.

 

[daus26]

I don't think you get why they are comparing it...

Features alone, not graphics and/or graphics style.

And you're not getting what I was trying to imply. They want the same type of features for GT6 for the track editor, as Modnation Racers have. Of course it would be nice to have all those features, but we can't compare the two like they are the same type of game... as in saying if Modnation can do it, why not GT6?

That's like saying why can't a huge open world game be as detailed graphically as Uncharted.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Maybe I don't really understand what you are saying, because the comparison makes total sense to me?

Just because one game is a cartoonish arcade game means we can't have the same editing features?

 

[daus26]

Maybe I don't really understand what you are saying, because the comparison makes total sense to me?

Just because one game is a cartoonish arcade game means we can't have the same editing features?

For GT6? Probably not. GT9? Probably.

The track editing in Modnation is done in REAL time. Every bending, generating, texturing on a track takes processing power. The pixels and detail in GT far surpassses Modnation Racer's.

Sorry, but I don't know how to make it any more simpler. Try imagining why games played in real time CAN'T look as good as CGI Pixar movies.

 

[Whistle Snap]

The track editing in Modnation is done in REAL time. Every bending, generating, texturing on a track takes processing power. The pixels and detail in GT far surpassses Modnation Racer's.

Sorry, but I don't know how to make it any more simpler. Try imagining why games played in real time CAN'T look as good as CGI Pixar movies.

Huh? The creator has a memory usage limit and is definitely possible in a GT game on PS3, the question is are Polyphony willing to put in the work to create a ModNation type creator? My guess would be no.

 

[analog]

We can't keep comparing a cartoonish game to a realistic, heavily-detailed game, unless you want to drive a premium car on a track with modnation graphics.

Have you even tried the ModNationRacers track editor? There's actually nothing wrong with it graphicswise (nor the underlying physics engine by the way), it's just the cartoonish style which needs to be replaced and the options need to be more realistic, other than that it could theoretically be used as it is in a game like GT.
It's also very easy and intuitive to use and let's not pretend the course creator themes used in GT5 are of a very high graphic quality.

 

[daus26]

Huh? The creator has a memory usage limit and is definitely possible in a GT game on PS3, the question is are Polyphony willing to put in the work to create a ModNation type creator? My guess would be no.

What?? Memory usage limit? Really? That's completely irrelevant. I already said how complicated it would be to have that level of editing power in a GT, PS3 game. Explain to me, your own interpretation on how it would be possible?

Have you even tried the ModNationRacers track editor? There's actually nothing wrong with it graphicswise (nor the underlying physics engine by the way), it's just the cartoonish style which needs to be replaced and the options need to be more realistic, other than that it could theoretically be used as it is in a game like GT.
It's also very easy and intuitive to use and let's not pretend the course creator themes used in GT5 are of a very high graphic quality.

Yes, I have. It's fun and simple, but very effective.

Perhaps, I'm not the best person to explain this, but there is very much a HUGE difference between Modnation's and GT's graphical needs, not only in pixels count, but in sheer size. Like I said, we're talking about real time editing. Even if it was possible, it would take forever to load in real time, instead of post processing, which is what the random generator we have now does. If PD would have the tools to make tracks as simple as Modnation's, they could've created hundreds of original GT tracks by now. Creating a track like Cape Ring would be super simple.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Then you draw the track real time and the system fills in the details in it's own time, then for you to edit when it's ready.

I would love a ModNation track creator for GT6. It, combined with an Event Editor, would allow for a game with almost infinite life span.

Imagine being able to create your own GT mode with your own rules and your own tracks, uploading it for everyone to try and downloading everyone else's version to try for yourself.

Create, Share and Play.

I think it's a good idea, so no chance of it happening then.

 

[daus26]

I think drawing the track in real time is the biggest problem though. Details of the topography like surface, banks, and elevation can all be done with post processing, like how we currently adjust the banks and complexity by sections, on our randomly generated tracks. We'd simply just have to guess and check.

The way PD now does it is by PREVIOUSLY modeled themes and roadway, thus taking away chunks of processing time. All the editor does is, as we know it, randomly bend the tracks and path (again not real time). In Modnation, we freely pave the road to our liking, as well as lighting of the sun, texturing, bending, and even populating, all in real time. That's just crazy in a game like GT. Not sure if the PS4 can do this, but I hope so.

 

[Traviizter]

All I want is point to point racing and Mt. Aso to be more mountain-side, rather than mountainous, or add something totally new. Would allow for both touge and drift too, similar to that Forza track (Fujimi Kaido, or something?).

 

[Exorcet]

For GT6? Probably not. GT9? Probably.

The track editing in Modnation is done in REAL time. Every bending, generating, texturing on a track takes processing power. The pixels and detail in GT far surpassses Modnation Racer's.

Sorry, but I don't know how to make it any more simpler. Try imagining why games played in real time CAN'T look as good as CGI Pixar movies.

We could have had a detailed editor in GT5 most likely. The graphics don't even matter, the hypothetical GT editor doesn't have to run at the same detail as replays or mid race. The track could be a wireframe while being edited.

What we got in GT5 wasn't very good. I can't even "create" a track without some turn somewhere having a random and completely stupid cliff that causes the road to drop out from under your car mid corner.

 

[ffjjbb]

Personally even if the track is generated I would like some control over some things. For example, I would like some control over the scenery, the foliage and possibly whether it's night or day. I seen of the tracks my friends made and they are kind of bland and seem to similar in the way the track was generated.

 

[Conza]

I think all of the things in this game, are clearly not beyond the system, so won't be beyond the PS4, and I think it'd be epic to have something, virtually identical to what we see in that youtube video (maybe leave out the obstacles, weapons, boost pads ).

The current one is a waste of time, you are given variables, which make no sense, alter one by +/-1 and the track changes in completely different ways.

Having said that, I would like the possibility to randomly generate tracks though, then tweak them, but I see no reason for this not to be a feature in GT6, don't see how anyone could be opposed to the idea, other than the time it'd take to make one with realistic scenes.. but if they use such low grade scenary in GT6 as they have in GT5 (looks like N64 graphics imo, flat people, ect, Crusin USA comes to mind), then the realism element isn't much of an issue either.

 

[gamerdog6482]

(I completely forgot about this thread...)

I have given a firm testing of ModNation Racers' track creator (At least the demo version) and I can say that that isn't what I want for GT. It's OKAY at best. Certainly the best out there, but it still isn't that good. I decided to try to make a replica of Tsukaba. I ended up with a cross between TRM and Daytona, if you can imagine what that looks like, and when it "Auto-Populated" it to give it scenery, it through in some elevation changes that I didn't want. Now, I could undo those, but it was a very complicated procedure. Also, I was restricted to a very small circle for the actual track (Roughly the size of the average Kart track), and the length was limited to roughly that of Autumn Ring Mini.

 

[another_jakhole]

We could have had a detailed editor in GT5 most likely. The graphics don't even matter, the hypothetical GT editor doesn't have to run at the same detail as replays or mid race. The track could be a wireframe while being edited.

What we got in GT5 wasn't very good. I can't even "create" a track without some turn somewhere having a random and completely stupid cliff that causes the road to drop out from under your car mid corner.

Certain things can be improved, but the first paragraph is NO. NO NO NO

I'll post an explanation (not from me) later, if possible.

daus26 explained it in a fairly simple way which might be why your not understanding.

I think all of the things in this game, are clearly not beyond the system, so won't be beyond the PS4, and I think it'd be epic to have something, virtually identical to what we see in that youtube video (maybe leave out the obstacles, weapons, boost pads ).

The current one is a waste of time, you are given variables, which make no sense, alter one by +/-1 and the track changes in completely different ways.

Having said that, I would like the possibility to randomly generate tracks though, then tweak them, but I see no reason for this not to be a feature in GT6, don't see how anyone could be opposed to the idea, other than the time it'd take to make one with realistic scenes.. but if they use such low grade scenary in GT6 as they have in GT5 (looks like N64 graphics imo, flat people, ect, Crusin USA comes to mind), then the realism element isn't much of an issue either.

haha ...think they had a choice?

 

[another_jakhole]

We could have had a detailed editor in GT5 most likely. The graphics don't even matter, the hypothetical GT editor doesn't have to run at the same detail as replays or mid race. The track could be a wireframe while being edited.

What we got in GT5 wasn't very good. I can't even "create" a track without some turn somewhere having a random and completely stupid cliff that causes the road to drop out from under your car mid corner.

My reply to this all is:

You aren’t going to see saves that are YouTube compatible, they take to long to render. They are Flash, not MPEG btw. They tried and couldn’t get them to a reasonable time. Look at Shift 2. You can upload to YouTube, but its only 10 second segments because it takes to long to render an entire race.

http://www.psu.com/a010183/GT5-getting-mechanical-damage-patch-this-month
Elsewhere, Yamauchi-san also pledged his continued support for the Logitech G25 and G27 steering wheels, though didn’t shy away from admitting he’d like to see a “new steering device” come out “soon.”

He then touched base on YouTube integration, revealing the replay upload feature was scrapped from the retail release, as it was taking too long to render and gobbling up a fair amount of memory to boot. However, the feature is being considered for inclusion in a future update.

For the same reason that this something seems so simple, the course maker is the same way in that it just isn't so. It'll take too long and wouldn't be practical for reasons that I personally can't get into.


The capabilities of the PS3 make it highly improbable for there to have been a complete, user-controlled track editor. As mentioned above, the custom tracks in MNR can only be made into a track around the length Autumn Ring Mini is, as opposed to 6-7 times that (miles) in GT5. Neither MNR nor GT5 have night layouts, which should tell you something about how not simple something must be based on seeing it in another game. The details in MNR aren't even in the same ballpark as GT5 and ultimately determines how advanced the system needs to be in order to handle a full track editor.


From where the video immediately starts to 14:51 and then some more about it afterwards if you're still interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWt-iPxCW9g&feature=player_detailpage#t=844s


If you still don't understand what we're getting at, I'll have to wait for someone else here to explain the technical side or wait until later on tonight, +12 hours from now.

Oh yeah, Photo Mode. You snap a picture and how long do we have to wait?

 

[Tornado]

Why couldn't you edit in sectors then? Even a low-poly representation would considerably chop down on the resources required as you are editing; let alone a wireframe.


Now, yes, when you went to finalize the track, it would take a good amount of time to render everything and you wouldn't be able to do anything in the meantime; but I have no doubts that the people who would get the most out of it would have no problem with that.

 

[Tired Tyres]

There is nothing at all to prevent this sort of editor working on the PS3.

As I've already posted, you design the track, the system fills in the details, complete with your restrictions, then you edit to finish. Save and use.

All it takes is a little imagination to see the possibilities rather than the potential problems.

Mod Nation Racers track editor makes small tracks because it is a kart game. What else would you expect it to be able to make? The Nurburgring?

A Gran Turismo Editor would make Gran Turismo sized tracks.