COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[Danoff]

With regard to masks, we've been told from the beginning that masks aren't effective in preventing you catching Covid-19, but it seems to me that they are likely to help lower the spread rate of the virus to others - even if the masks aren't the best quality & aren't used that well. The downside is that they might encourage people to engage in riskier behaviours.

I imagine that in the future, after this experience, good quality masks will become a standard item of household medical supplies.

Yea the masks by themselves aren't enough. You need glasses (and to clean your hands). It's covered in that youtube video a while back with that Korean doctor. Just a mask by itself is good for preventing your cough from going airborn. If you want to keep from catching someone else's cough, you need a mask and glasses (and to wash your hands).

================================

In the news:

https://www.med-technews.com/news/medtronic-shares-ventilator-design-specifications-to-enable-/

A real actual ventilator - like one that has been used on patients and has been in the field worldwide for a long time, and wasn't invented in a garage or by Dyson 5 seconds ago - was just handed to the world to manufacture. This is the same company that I posted earlier was working with Tesla to increase vent manufacturing.

It is possible yes, but it isn't happening. Why?

Because things take time. Companies can't turn mass-production on a dime.

 

[SPhilli911]

Something doesn't feel right here...

My office has remained open (in Connecticut) as we are "essential" employees who directly support military contracts. They are struggling to get everyone laptops and remote access to work from home so there are still people going to the office.

10 days ago, March 20, a guy went home sick and just yesterday he was confirmed to have the COVID-19 virus. The guy sat directly in my group. Despite the companies efforts to separate all the people here, I don't know why they remain open and allow workers to go in now that a employee was found to be sick. Now, I am sitting here thinking I could easily be sick too.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Something doesn't feel right here...

My office has remained open (in Connecticut) as we are "essential" employees who directly support military contracts. They are struggling to get everyone laptops and remote access to work from home so there are still people going to the office.

10 days ago, March 20, a guy went home sick and just yesterday he was confirmed to have the COVID-19 virus. The guy sat directly in my group. Despite the companies efforts to separate all the people here, I don't know why they remain open and allow workers to go in now that a employee was found to be sick. Now, I am sitting here thinking I could easily be sick too.

You should demand to work from home and if not then get your paid leave of absence using whatever paid time off you have available for now.

 

[SPhilli911]

You should demand to work from home and if not then get your paid leave of absence using whatever paid time off you have available for now.

The working from home thing is possible but not as easy as it sounds to hand out laptops. There is very heavy export control and technical data involved. They are working on it (slowly), but the other problem is the thousands of employees that will now be working remote.

I think I will take time off using my personal time and see if I feel any symptoms for the meantime, though.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I believe gestation time is two weeks so if you don't see symptoms in that time you should be good for now.

 

[Blitz24]

The working from home thing is possible but not as easy as it sounds to hand out laptops. There is very heavy export control and technical data involved. They are working on it (slowly), but the other problem is the thousands of employees that will now be working remote.

I think I will take time off using my personal time and see if I feel any symptoms for the meantime, though.

Is this a company that allows for virtual desktops or is that not even doable?

I believe gestation time is two weeks so if you don't see symptoms in that time you should be good for now.

I've heard it varies between 5 to 14 days for the onset of symptoms (evidence: I was exposed on the 9th but saw no symptoms), but people have been saying that it could be longer (27 days?)

 

[SPhilli911]

Is this a company that allows for virtual desktops or is that not even doable?

It is possible as a last resort kinda thing and that is what they are working to do for the ones they can't get laptops for, yes. I've been told this week I will get that access, but if someone here was sick only 10 days ago, it's surprising to see that the company will remain open right now. They did a major cleaning of the office on the weekend, but that sorta ignores the fact that some people may have come in contact with the sick person when he was here.

I feel fine and I am confident anyone who felt even somewhat sick has stayed home. However, it's been 10 days only since the sick person was in the office. If the period is anywhere from 2-14 days before someone can show symptoms then there is still that window that people here are sick and not know it. I suppose my point is the company might not be handling this appropriately. Think it's best we all stay home UNTIL the remote access is available, so I may take it upon myself to do that if the company won't tell me to.

Sorry, sorta ranting here. Lot's of talk going on in the office.

 

[novcze]

We aren't in the Utopia where everyone has a mask.

maybe not FFP3 masks, but you can cover your mouth and nose with anything you have so you don't spit around when you speak.
We are not allowed to go out without face coverings so it's possible to do something.

 

[Blitz24]

It is possible as a last resort kinda thing and that is what they are working to do for the ones they can't get laptops for, yes. I've been told this week I will get that access, but if someone here was sick only 10 days ago, it's surprising to see that the company will remain open right now. They did a major cleaning of the office on the weekend, but that sorta ignores the fact that some people may have come in contact with the sick person when he was here.

I feel fine and I am confident anyone who felt even somewhat sick has stayed home. However, it's been 10 days only since the sick person was in the office. If the period is anywhere from 2-14 days before someone can show symptoms then there is still that window that people here are sick and not know it. I suppose my point is the company might not be handling this appropriately. Think it's best we all stay home UNTIL the remote access is available, so I may take it upon myself to do that if the company won't tell me to.

Sorry, sorta ranting here. Lot's of talk going on in the office.

No need to explain yourself. You are completely justified in your concerns and the company might also be in legal hot water.

 

[Dotini]

...the company might also be in legal hot water.

This makes perfect sense. The lawyers will get us out of the troubles the accountants got us into.

 

[Touring Mars]

Sorry if this has been talked about already, but something I am curious about is if this virus can get into the water system? Have we figured that out yet?

There is no evidence that I'm aware of that says that this or any other coronavirus (or similar virus) can spread through the water supply.

While it may be physically possible, there's a number of good reasons not to worry about it.

Firstly, it's unlikely that virus particles would survive for long enough in the water supply to ever reach your property or any other.

Secondly, any live virus that did make it as far as your property via the water supply would likely be so low concentration as to be non-hazardous.

Thirdly, I'm no expert on water purification techniques, but generally speaking the vast majority of intact (infectious) virus particles entering the water supply would be taken out by filtration (e.g. of solids), chemical treatment etc., so the amount left (if any) would be very low, even before it started on its way out to households.

All in all, the water supply is very likely an extremely low to zero risk source of coronavirus.

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On a side note, there is evidence that shows that the severity of infections can be related to the initial infectious dose that a person receives. This might at least partly explain why otherwise healthy medics seem to be dying from COVID-19 - and also explains why there is such a pressing need to protect healthcare workers in general.

As such, it may well be the case that becoming infected by a very low dose of the virus (as would be the case with any dose you could possibly receive from your own water supply) would result in a mild illness followed by immunity from the disease. Of course, this isn't certain but if that turned out to be the case, then a very low dose in the water supply would not only not pose a risk to most people, but could even prevent more serious cases from developing.

 

[Biggles]

On a side note, there is evidence that shows that the severity of infections can be related to the initial infectious dose that a person receives. This might at least partly explain why otherwise healthy medics seem to be dying from COVID-19 - and also explains why there is such a pressing need to protect healthcare workers in general.

As such, it may well be the case that becoming infected by a very low dose of the virus (as would be the case with any dose you could possibly receive from your own water supply) would result in a mild illness followed by immunity from the disease. Of course, this isn't certain but if that turned out to be the case, then a very low dose in the water supply would not only not pose a risk to most people, but could even prevent more serious cases from developing.

It seems like there is a lot that is not clearly understood about the virus at this point & that much more will be known over time. The questionability of early information coming out of China has not helped this. The alarming statistics coming out of Italy & Spain were the follow up, but may reflect particular circumstances that are not applicable to most other countries.

My understanding right now, is that the vast majority of serious illnesses & deaths are restricted to the very old (over 70), &/or those with serious underlying conditions. So isolating those individuals would go a long way to limiting the impact of the virus. This, combined with other piecemeal approaches - like public awareness, moderate social distancing, masks, gloves & other hygiene measures, & a better prepared healthcare system - might successfully contain the virus sufficiently without requiring the wholesale shutdown of economies. In other words, a response that doesn't swing from nonchalance to panic, but is focused on immediate, practical solutions.

This outbreak snuck up on a disbelieving & unprepared world population. Hopefully that will not happen again as the lessons learned from Covid-19 are absorbed.

 

[twitcher]

Take this with a grain of salt, I can’t verify authenticity here, or who is doing the faking, but...



The top frame is footage used by CBS to describe the scene at a NYC hospital, aired March 25.

The bottom frame is footage used by Sky News to depict conditions in an Italian hospital, aired March 22.

It’s the same damn footage.

I’m trying to refrain from going off the deep end with the conspiracies, but I find this footage quite alarming to say the least.

As @Biggles points out, the original numbers from China were garbage, initial numbers from Italy and Spain may be due to to extraordinary circumstances.....the problem governments like the US now face, if this situation turns out to be smaller than they have hyped it up to be, no one is going to believe them ever again. They have cried wolf, so they better damn well make sure there is a wolf.

 

[Biggles]

Take this with a grain of salt, I can’t verify authenticity here, or who is doing the faking, but...



The top frame is footage used by CBS to describe the scene at a NYC hospital, aired March 25.

The bottom frame is footage used by Sky News to depict conditions in an Italian hospital, aired March 22.

It’s the same damn footage.

I’m trying to refrain from going off the deep end with the conspiracies, but I find this footage quite alarming to say the least.

As @Biggles points out, the original numbers from China were garbage, initial numbers from Italy and Spain may be due to to extraordinary circumstances.....the problem governments like the US now face, if this situation turns out to be smaller than they have hyped it up to be, no one is going to believe them ever again. They have cried wolf, so they better damn well make sure there is a wolf.

I don't believe it's evidence of a "conspiracy" - probably just lazy reporting. I don't think the original numbers from China were necessarily "garbage", but were certainly, at the very least, not entirely reliable. I do believe that the situation in the US is serious. I just think that the appropriate response has been unknowable because of a lack of detailed information available. Erring on the side of caution may be the appropriate response under the circumstances.

 

[Jezza819]

Forgive me if we've covered this way back in the beginning of this thread but how was the Ebola outbreak from a few years ago contained or limited in it's scope? Just the part of the world it was in with very little travel in or out? And maybe handled is a better term than contained because many, many people still died.

 

[McLaren]

Take this with a grain of salt, I can’t verify authenticity here, or who is doing the faking, but...



The top frame is footage used by CBS to describe the scene at a NYC hospital, aired March 25.

The bottom frame is footage used by Sky News to depict conditions in an Italian hospital, aired March 22.

It’s the same damn footage.

I’m trying to refrain from going off the deep end with the conspiracies, but I find this footage quite alarming to say the least.

As @Biggles points out, the original numbers from China were garbage, initial numbers from Italy and Spain may be due to to extraordinary circumstances.....the problem governments like the US now face, if this situation turns out to be smaller than they have hyped it up to be, no one is going to believe them ever again. They have cried wolf, so they better damn well make sure there is a wolf.

This is rather more on the side of just lazy reporting that happens every so often. Our media has been caught using clips from as far as video games to give "visual" scenes from a story.

 

[Danoff]

Forgive me if we've covered this way back in the beginning of this thread but how was the Ebola outbreak from a few years ago contained or limited in it's scope? Just the part of the world it was in with very little travel in or out? And maybe handled is a better term than contained because many, many people still died.

Ebola kills a large percentage of the people that carry it and is less contagious. As a result, it spreads much less effectively.

 

[twitcher]

I don't believe it's evidence of a "conspiracy" - probably just lazy reporting. I don't think the original numbers from China were necessarily "garbage", but were certainly, at the very least, not entirely reliable. I do believe that the situation in the US is serious. I just think that the appropriate response has been unknowable because of a lack of detailed information available. Erring on the side of caution may be the appropriate response under the circumstances.

I think that’s a pretty fair assessment. Even if it is just lazy journalisming as you say....now, of all times, is not the time for lazy journalisming. At the very least, people need to be aware that these are the standards CBS is operating to.

For myself, this also comes on the heals of just a few months ago, I believe it was ABC who was airing footage of what they claimed to be bombing attacks in Syria or Iraq, which turned out to be footage of a training exercise from like 2015.

Again, I’m not jumping out any windows with conspiracy theories (yet, lol), but at the very least, I find this alarming and eyebrow raising.

 

[PeterJB]

Forgive me if we've covered this way back in the beginning of this thread but how was the Ebola outbreak from a few years ago contained or limited in it's scope? Just the part of the world it was in with very little travel in or out? And maybe handled is a better term than contained because many, many people still died.

And yes, air traffic in and out of West Africa is much lower than China. There was one nurse in the UK caught it while out there, she was quarantined back in the UK and that was it.

 

[TexRex]

It amazes me how people can so easily forget how catastrophically the Obama administration mishandled the Ebola outbreak in the United States. It was so bad that someone in the media actually referred to President Obama himself as "Barack Ebola" and it even led to eleven people in this country receiving treatment for the disease.

 

[Dennisch]

eleven people in this country

GLOBAL PANDEMIC!

 

[Touring Mars]

It amazes me how people can so easily forget how catastrophically the Obama administration mishandled the Ebola outbreak in the United States. It was so bad that someone in the media actually referred to President Obama himself as "Barack Ebola" and it even led to eleven people in this country receiving treatment for the disease.

.. and at least one death in the US. (Though it later turned out that his name just included the phrase 'E. Bowler', and he didn't actually have the virus, but still...)

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/43789/ferris-e-bowler

 

[UKMikey]

It amazes me how people can so easily forget how catastrophically the Obama administration mishandled the Ebola outbreak in the United States. It was so bad that someone in the media actually referred to President Obama himself as "Barack Ebola" and it even led to eleven people in this country receiving treatment for the disease.

I take it you're satirising the Trumpist crap that sometimes turns up in my Facebook feed like this gem from a local birther I know.

Real fair comparison on the death rates there.

 

[TexRex]

.. and at least one death in the US. (Though it later turned out that his name just included the phrase 'E. Bowler', and he didn't actually have the virus, but still...)

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/43789/ferris-e-bowler

The CDC puts it at two for the 2014-16 outbreak, or a mortality rate of just over 18%. Seems both deaths were individuals who contracted it while in West Africa, and those who contracted it here all survived.

I take it you're satirising the Trumpist crap that sometimes turns up in my Facebook feed like this gem from a local birther I know.

View attachment 904175

Real fair comparison on the death rates there.

I don't have a Facebook feed.

 

[McLaren]

Dallas has been expecting the Texas National Guard to come in and setup 250 beds. The city has designated our convention center to be the location, as it can hold an additional 1,150 beds if ever needed (or possible with medical shortages going on). We seem to still be very early into this outbreak, but the city appears to be taking the news we could be one of the next epicenters next to NOLA, very seriously. My work is now altering schedules based on recent news.

 

[Touring Mars]

I take it you're satirising the Trumpist crap that sometimes turns up in my Facebook feed like this gem from a local birther I know.

View attachment 904175

Real fair comparison on the death rates there.

Yep... and pretty stupid to compare figures from a completed epidemic to something that has only just started...

In the 3 weeks since that image was made, the coronavirus numbers in the US have doubled 7 times (i.e. 130 times higher) and are still doubling every 3-4 days. The death rate is also ca. 2% of confirmed cases (0.5% estimated for all cases) as opposed to 0.02% for confirmed swine flu cases.

If infections continued to rise at the same rate, it would take less than a month to reach 60 million cases... and anything between 0.25-1.2 million dead...

 

[CodeRedR51]

According to the big wig on site, we are an "essential service" and will remain open. Not sure I agree with that but it is what it is.

 

[Adamgp]

Got another email update from work, they have begun producing the face shields and are are churning them out as fast as possible. Also, they have increased production of electric motors and gearmotors (what we normally make) for medical applications.

 

[TJ13]

State of Virginia has a Stay at Home order until June 10th.
This has been a suggestion for Virginians and now it's an ORDER!

I think this is now the longest stay at home in the US?

 

[Danoff]

Sorry for spamming this thread with this story, but man... this is just so cool. A major medical tech company just giving away their product (the ventilator below) so that it can be made as fast as possible.

The PB 560 ventilator has a number of advantages, one being that it’s a relatively compact and lightweight piece of equipment that can be easily moved around and installed for use in a range of different healthcare environments and settings. And it’s a design that was originally introduced in 2010, so it has a decade of qualified, safe medical use in treating patients.

There are plenty of efforts underway to produce ventilators and design new ventilators that manufacturers of other devices, like Dyson, can put into production. And others are trying to modify existing hardware to serve more patients. But this move by Medtronic makes freely available everything needed to spin up new production lines at existing manufacturers around the world — without any costs or fees owed to Medtronic.

It’s still obviously true that retooling a production line to build a different product is going to be an undertaking, no matter what kind of design specifications you’re starting with. But this initiative by Medtronic is also intended to provide the resources necessary for anyone looking at what they can build today — a blueprint to spawn new and innovative ideas. Manufacturers might be able to look at Medtronic’s proven design and engineer something they can build at scale relatively quickly that offers the same or similar performance characteristics.

10 years of proven history, FDA approval or whatever it takes to bring a ventilator to the market... and they're just giving it away. I thought this was interesting too:

He pointed out that while Medtronic produces other, more complex ventilator hardware, including the PB 980 and PB 840, these require “more than 1,500 components” that Medtronic sources from a variety of specialized producers, and rely on “a skilled and specialized workforce” and “an interconnected global supply chain.” While those things remain true even for the PB 560 to some extent, its smaller, simplified design makes it the best candidate for companies newer to the field looking to pivot to ventilator manufacturing with limited or no prior experience.

Looks like they picked the best option.