COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[Samus]

Had my second Pfizer yesterday, not really feeling too good today. Sore all over, headache, going hot and cold. Woke up in the middle of the night shivering, which was odd. First one was just a sore arm but the nurse did warn that the 2nd Pfizer is usually much more likely to deliver the side effects.

Still, worth feeling poop for a day or two vs the alternative.

 

[Blitz24]

Things are going swimmingly here...

In Utah, hospitals swell with unvaccinated COVID-19 patients

The COVID-19 intensive care unit where nurse Janine Roberts works in a Salt Lake City suburb is once again full, with patients who are mostly young, mostly unvaccinated and very ill.

www.reuters.com

Also, Republican's gonna Republican:

What did we learn from the pandemic?
Utah or Republican led states (and some purple Dem-led states): There wasn't one. All of those people just ran away. They didn't die of anything that could have been prevented.

 

[Danoff]

Weirdly enough, Florida might be on their way to their worst covid peak yet, at least in terms of cases.

They're currently clocking in at a 10k cases/day average. The most they've ever averaged is 18k cases/day. Taking out the averaging is essentially impossible for florida as it looks like they're reporting weekly at this point.

 

[McLaren]

That’s just Florida not getting “Fauci’d” or whatever the hell that meant.

 

[Stotty]

In Utah, hospitals swell with unvaccinated COVID-19 patients

The COVID-19 intensive care unit where nurse Janine Roberts works in a Salt Lake City suburb is once again full, with patients who are mostly young, mostly unvaccinated and very ill.

www.reuters.com

Also, Republican's gonna Republican:

Yet this...

U.S. COVID Risk & Vaccine Tracker

Covid Act Now has real-time tracking of your community's COVID risk level. Explore how Utah is doing.

covidactnow.org

shows little to be seriously concerned about in Utah. Plenty of icu capacity, for both covid and non covid patients.

Encouraging people to get vaccinated is a good thing, but best not to just make **** up... people won’t trust you and you’ll end up giving the conspiracy crowd more ammunition.

 

[ImaRobot]

Yet this...

U.S. COVID Risk & Vaccine Tracker

Covid Act Now has real-time tracking of your community's COVID risk level. Explore how Utah is doing.

covidactnow.org

shows little to be seriously concerned about in Utah. Plenty of icu capacity, for both covid and non covid patients.

Encouraging people to get vaccinated is a good thing, but best not to just make **** up... people won’t trust you and you’ll end up giving the conspiracy crowd more ammunition.

I mean, hasn't this all only barely started picking up pretty quickly as short as a few weeks ago? Seems like something to be concerned about. 67% capacity in just a few short weeks seems pretty serious, at least more than you're willing to admit. It's basically only the beginning of this upward trend, as well.

 

[Joey D]

Yet this...

U.S. COVID Risk & Vaccine Tracker

Covid Act Now has real-time tracking of your community's COVID risk level. Explore how Utah is doing.

covidactnow.org

shows little to be seriously concerned about in Utah. Plenty of icu capacity, for both covid and non covid patients.

Encouraging people to get vaccinated is a good thing, but best not to just make **** up... people won’t trust you and you’ll end up giving the conspiracy crowd more ammunition.

Considering I work for one of the hospitals mentioned in the article, it's not making anything up and Reuters is probably one of the most trusted and neutral news outlets in the world, they have zero agenda.

Our ICU is over 85% full, which is critical. You never really want the ICU to be more than 70% full at any given time and if COVID cases were at April levels, it would be well below that.

 

[TexRex]

Also, Republican's gonna Republican:

 

[Stotty]

Considering I work for one of the hospitals mentioned in the article, it's not making anything up and Reuters is probably one of the most trusted and neutral news outlets in the world, they have zero agenda.

Our ICU is over 85% full, which is critical. You never really want the ICU to be more than 70% full at any given time and if COVID cases were at April levels, it would be well below that.

70%?

Even before Covid, the NHS (serving 67 million people in the UK) ICU occupancy seldom dropped much more than a point or 2 below 80% in low demand periods, and was frequently at 100% capacity during high demand periods (a normal winter flu season, for example)... resulting in regular cancellation or postponement of elective surgeries that required post op ICU care over the winter months.

From what I see with a quick google, optimal ICU bed occupancy is accepted as being somewhere between 70% and 80%. Utah currently sits at 67%, which is classified as 'low'....

"Utah has reported having 630 staffed adult ICU beds. 284 are filled by non-COVID patients and 139 are filled by COVID patients. Overall, 423 out of 630 (67%) are filled. This suggests there is likely enough capacity to absorb a wave of new COVID infections."

The truth no longer seems to be important when it comes to emotional, scaremongering journalism... as much for Reuters as for Fox.

 

[Joey D]

70%?

Even before Covid, the NHS (serving 67 million people in the UK) ICU occupancy seldom dropped much more than a point or 2 below 80% in low demand periods, and was frequently at 100% capacity during high demand periods (a normal winter flu season, for example)... resulting in regular cancellation or postponement of elective surgeries that required post op ICU care over the winter months.

From what I see with a quick google, optimal ICU bed occupancy is accepted as being somewhere between 70% and 80%. Utah currently sits at 67%, which is classified as 'low'....

"Utah has reported having 630 staffed adult ICU beds. 284 are filled by non-COVID patients and 139 are filled by COVID patients. Overall, 423 out of 630 (67%) are filled. This suggests there is likely enough capacity to absorb a wave of new COVID infections."

The truth no longer seems to be important when it comes to emotional, scaremongering journalism... as much for Reuters as for Fox.

I'm just telling you what American hospitals go by. I've worked in four different health systems now and every single one targets 70-75% capacity in the ICU since it's continuously rotating. I don't know what the UK's policies are, I don't follow them nor do I know anything about it. When ICU numbers start to get above that 70-75% mark, it starts to become an issue with things like staffing and having room for trauma patients.

Yes, currently there is capacity in the ICU, but with the number of cases going up it could be a problem in the very near future. Non-essential surgeries are already needing to be canceled due to the surge, which means people are needing to delay their treatments because of selfish people who can't be bothered to get vaccinated. And it's not just things like knee replacement either. Pretty much anything that doesn't involve preventing you from actively dying is considered non-essential.

And get the 🤬 out of here with that "it's not the truth" BS. It is the truth, but because it's doesn't fit your skewed view of the world then it's somehow not factual. Reuters is a trusted source in journalism, that's why I use it. It's neutral and presents facts, almost to the point where it's incredibly dry. The AP is the same way. If you want good journalism, those are the two sources you should turn to.

It's getting increasingly frustrating that you come in here, spout utter rubbish, declare that any article or study you don't like as "fake news", and laugh about people dying in the ICU. I've said this time and time again, this crap does not belong on GTP since it's a site that has higher standards than that.

 

[Outspacer]

70%?

Even before Covid, the NHS (serving 67 million people in the UK) ICU occupancy seldom dropped much more than a point or 2 below 80% in low demand periods, and was frequently at 100% capacity during high demand periods (a normal winter flu season, for example)... resulting in regular cancellation or postponement of elective surgeries that required post op ICU care over the winter months.

From what I see with a quick google, optimal ICU bed occupancy is accepted as being somewhere between 70% and 80%. Utah currently sits at 67%, which is classified as 'low'....

"Utah has reported having 630 staffed adult ICU beds. 284 are filled by non-COVID patients and 139 are filled by COVID patients. Overall, 423 out of 630 (67%) are filled. This suggests there is likely enough capacity to absorb a wave of new COVID infections."

The truth no longer seems to be important when it comes to emotional, scaremongering journalism... as much for Reuters as for Fox.

Reuters : "Utah’s intensive care units were 84% full on July 22"
@Joey D : "Our ICU is over 85% full"
Covid act now : "Overall, 423 out of 630 (67%) are filled"

@Stotty : I'll pick that lower number, without questioning it at all, because it fits my narrative.

You have no interest in the truth, only your 'truth'.

 

[Joey D]

Covid act now : "Overall, 423 out of 630 (67%) are filled"

It's probably worth noting that the site likely takes all ICU beds without distinguishing them based on what they're used for. Most large hospitals have a CICU or CVICU which is a cardiovascular intensive care unit and is designed for patients who had major heart surgery. If you have a heart attack and need a bypass, you're likely going to end up in the CICU. There's also the PICU and NICU, which are the pediatric and newborn ICU's respectively.

I'm honestly not sure how the data gets reported though, so maybe they separate it out but given how terrible the state databases are I'm going to guess they can't really do that.

I, along with a ton of other people, get an e-mail every morning that gives the capacity numbers since the team I'm on handles the hospital's registration system. There's also a little message that pops up when I log in that indicated if we're at a critical census or not.

I can't speak for other health systems in the state so maybe their ICUs are somehow barren? I have no idea. It wouldn't surprise me if the hospitals in the southern part of Utah are mostly empty since the population there is really small. Something like 90% of the state lives in the Salt Lake Valley. So numbers can look weird based on where the population center is.

 

[Danoff]

I'm lost on how it's ok to have an ICU regularly at 100% capacity during for example a normal winter flu season. That can't really be the case in the UK can it? Seems non-functional.

 

[Touring Mars]

When it comes to the current situation hospitals in Utah, I prefer to listen to someone who works in a hospital in Utah.

Similarly, if I ever need advice on how to sit on my ass and scratch my balls all day, I believe I know who to ask.

 

[Famine]

I'm lost on how it's ok to have an ICU regularly at 100% capacity during for example a normal winter flu season. That can't really be the case in the UK can it? Seems non-functional.

The answer is complicated, because we don't either use or measure beds in that fashion, but also "no".

We have "critical care beds", which consist of "high dependency"(HDU/level 2) and "intensive care" (ICU/level 3), but actually a vanishingly small number of critical care beds (and units) are only one or the other. Typical peak for critical care is 80-85% occupancy.

There are, however, only 4,000 of them in the country - around six per hundred thousand people.

 

[Danoff]

The answer is complicated, because we don't either use or measure beds in that fashion, but also "no".

We have "critical care beds", which consist of "high dependency"(HDU/level 2) and "intensive care" (ICU/level 3), but actually a vanishingly small number of critical care beds (and units) are only one or the other. Typical peak for critical care is 80-85% occupancy.

There are, however, only 4,000 of them in the country - around six per hundred thousand people.

That makes more sense.

 

[UKMikey]

I'm lost on how it's ok to have an ICU regularly at 100% capacity during for example a normal winter flu season. That can't really be the case in the UK can it? Seems non-functional.

We're not great on critical care bed capacity compared to other countries according to health.org.uk.

Did hospital capacity affect mortality during the pandemic’s first wave?

Coming into the COVID-19 pandemic, the UK had high levels of bed occupancy in hospitals and very little spare capacity. Our new analysis explores how hospital capacity affected mortality during the first wave of the pandemic, and how the UK compares to other countries.

www.health.org.uk

EDIT: Tree'd

 

[TexRex]

Similarly, if I ever need advice on how to sit on my ass and scratch my balls all day, I believe I know who to ask.

Yeah, I'm here. Just know that you'll want to keep your nails trimmed.

 

[Outspacer]

It's probably worth noting that the site likely takes all ICU beds without distinguishing them based on what they're used for. Most large hospitals have a CICU or CVICU which is a cardiovascular intensive care unit and is designed for patients who had major heart surgery. If you have a heart attack and need a bypass, you're likely going to end up in the CICU. There's also the PICU and NICU, which are the pediatric and newborn ICU's respectively.

I'm honestly not sure how the data gets reported though, so maybe they separate it out but given how terrible the state databases are I'm going to guess they can't really do that.

I, along with a ton of other people, get an e-mail every morning that gives the capacity numbers since the team I'm on handles the hospital's registration system. There's also a little message that pops up when I log in that indicated if we're at a critical census or not.

I can't speak for other health systems in the state so maybe their ICUs are somehow barren? I have no idea. It wouldn't surprise me if the hospitals in the southern part of Utah are mostly empty since the population there is really small. Something like 90% of the state lives in the Salt Lake Valley. So numbers can look weird based on where the population center is.

Thanks, informative as usual

The various COVID tracker sites, even though they do a great job, are aggregating massive amounts of data and so it would not surprise me if their absolute numbers are sometimes off (particularly in the denominators, i.e. total number of beds). They are best used (and mainly intended for) tracking trends. So I'd always want to verify numbers against info from closer to the source, which, as in this case, will be both more accurate and more relevant.

I'm lost on how it's ok to have an ICU regularly at 100% capacity during for example a normal winter flu season. That can't really be the case in the UK can it? Seems non-functional.

Of course it's not true overall. In a particularly bad flu season there will be some large ICUs in hard hit areas that become full, meaning patients have to be diverted/transferred elsewhere - this is obviously national news, and easy to find. In a normal season some of the smaller ones will fill up, only affecting a small number of patients (who usually don't get diverted far) and it's just local news.

And +1 for what @Famine just said - Jan 2016 was about 86%, Jan 2019 about 85% - there are monthly spreadsheets here. I just picked a couple of Januarys at random; I think they were fairly normal years.

 

[Touring Mars]

I would have thought that dealing with a novel, extremely dangerous and airborne virus might even change the very definition of what constitutes 'intensive care', as I reckon Joey is alluding to above.

COVID care is still largely an unknown quantity, but from what has already been observed, it places enormous demands on staff, over and above what they typically have to deal with.

Not only that, but ICU capacity is not just about the number of available beds and facilities, but the ability to keep those beds serviced, not to mention the extra needs of patients with a novel disease that has also killed tens of thousands of healthcare workers and carers - 'capacity' will therefore decrease if staff have to self-isolate, get sick or indeed die.

Hence if anything I'd be inclined to believe that 'ICU capacity' is not an easy thing to determine in the first place, but can also change pretty rapidly, esp. in the face of a new threat.

-

Yeah, I'm here. Just know that you'll want to keep your nails trimmed.

.

 

[Danoff]

Of course it's not true overall. In a particularly bad flu season there will be some large ICUs in hard hit areas that become full, meaning patients have to be diverted/transferred elsewhere - this is obviously national news, and easy to find. In a normal season some of the smaller ones will fill up, only affecting a small number of patients (who usually don't get diverted far) and it's just local news.

I don't remember hearing about that happening the US. It sounds like US hospitals just operate with more excess capacity as a rule. UK 85% is US 75%. It's like how we have different gallons or something.

 

[Outspacer]

I don't remember hearing about that happening the US. It sounds like US hospitals just operate with more excess capacity as a rule. UK 85% is US 75%. It's like how we have different gallons or something.

Re diversions/transfers, you have to bear in mind that our population centres and therefore major hospitals are generally much closer together! I don't know how far the average transfer is, but if I had to guess I'd say 30 miles or less.

But yes, we would benefit from more spare capacity in our healthcare - not just in ICU, everywhere.

 

[Joey D]

ICUs in the US are for absolute critical care and for those who need constant monitoring. Anyone who's on a vent or has been intubated with COVID is likely in one of these units. Nurses that work on these units often time need to go through some pretty extensive training and it's an area of the hospital with higher than average burnout since you're constantly around negative outcomes. This is where we run into a problem with the pandemic too and why capacity is always such an issue. While you can run at 100% capacity, the problem is getting people to staff it and staff it at a degree of care those patients need. Sure you can run a nurse ragged, but after a 12-hour shift, they need some rest. Couple this with the increasing shortage of nurses and you can quickly see that it's a disaster in the making.

With other ICUs, there's typically a CICU/CVU/CICU which is for cardiac patients, a PICU for peds patients, and a NICU for newborns (also call neo-natal). Some hospitals have other ICUs as well depending on what they specialize in. At the first hospital I worked at we had an ICU just for neuro and stroke patients. I've seen ortho ICUs as well that deal with ortho traumas (think getting your leg ripped off by a tractor).

All these require a different degree of training and the skills aren't 100% transferable either. Someone who works in the NICU for example might not be able to work in the regular ICU. Also, it's rare that you see a floor nurse work in ICU since they're really not trained for that. In a pinch, they could probably do it and keep patients alive, but when a Code Blue (unresponsive patient) goes, they might not know all the life-saving techniques. I know some people like to think that a nurse is a nurse, but in reality, nurses are highly specialized in what they do.

Oh and I got a page (yes I have a pager) tonight that we're now at 5% capacity meaning there are less than 19 beds available in the entire hospital so there's that. This is likely a spillover from the 4th of July weekend and we just had a holiday this past weekend too (Pioneer/Pie and Beer Day) so I suspect we will get hit with another punch in a couple of weeks. Can't wait for that to happen. Then school starts and that's going to be an absolute 🤬 show of the highest order.

 

[Danoff]

ICUs in the US are for absolute critical care and for those who need constant monitoring. Anyone who's on a vent or has been intubated with COVID is likely in one of these units. Nurses that work on these units often time need to go through some pretty extensive training and it's an area of the hospital with higher than average burnout since you're constantly around negative outcomes. This is where we run into a problem with the pandemic too and why capacity is always such an issue. While you can run at 100% capacity, the problem is getting people to staff it and staff it at a degree of care those patients need. Sure you can run a nurse ragged, but after a 12-hour shift, they need some rest. Couple this with the increasing shortage of nurses and you can quickly see that it's a disaster in the making.

With other ICUs, there's typically a CICU/CVU/CICU which is for cardiac patients, a PICU for peds patients, and a NICU for newborns (also call neo-natal). Some hospitals have other ICUs as well depending on what they specialize in. At the first hospital I worked at we had an ICU just for neuro and stroke patients. I've seen ortho ICUs as well that deal with ortho traumas (think getting your leg ripped off by a tractor).

All these require a different degree of training and the skills aren't 100% transferable either. Someone who works in the NICU for example might not be able to work in the regular ICU. Also, it's rare that you see a floor nurse work in ICU since they're really not trained for that. In a pinch, they could probably do it and keep patients alive, but when a Code Blue (unresponsive patient) goes, they might not know all the life-saving techniques. I know some people like to think that a nurse is a nurse, but in reality, nurses are highly specialized in what they do.

Oh and I got a page (yes I have a pager) tonight that we're now at 5% capacity meaning there are less than 19 beds available in the entire hospital so there's that. This is likely a spillover from the 4th of July weekend and we just had a holiday this past weekend too (Pioneer/Pie and Beer Day) so I suspect we will get hit with another punch in a couple of weeks. Can't wait for that to happen. Then school starts and that's going to be an absolute 🤬 show of the highest order.

Yea that's not good. I'm not seeing big caseloads in Utah stats yet. It's rising, but it's not pulling a florida. You've got a long ways to go if this is headed for florida-like spreading.

 

[DK]

Absolute efficiency.

2nd shot, in and out less than 20 minutes. Including the mandatory 15 minute wait after the shot.

I'm jealous, it took me 35 mins when I got jabbed a week ago. To cap it off, I grabbed a complementary lukewarm bottle of water before getting jabbed...only for the waiting zone attendant to ask if anybody wanted one from the fridge.

 

[sirjim73]

I'm jealous, it took me 35 mins when I got jabbed a week ago. To cap it off, I grabbed a complementary lukewarm bottle of water before getting jabbed...only for the waiting zone attendant to ask if anybody wanted one from the fridge.

You got a bottle of water?

Luxury!

 

[Dennisch]

Update. Speech is back to normal, 5g doesn't work, still can't communicate with Bill.

Everything does feel a bit slower today. And someone is poking his finger in my arm. The missus is going down the list of side effects. But not so bad that she needs to be in bed.

Update on the second shots.

Apart from a short spell of feeling warm this morning, nothing else is happening. The missus feels like I did the first time, all feels a bit slower.
Good times.

 

[Joey D]

We need the vaccine approved for kids and we need it approved now. Here are two articles that came across today in one of my health news e-mails (Becker's if anyone is interested).

COVID-19 Update from Arkansas Children's

Arkansas Children's experienced a record number of COVID-19 hospitalizations today with 24 patients who are positive for COVID-19

www.archildrens.org

OU Children's Hospital warns more children are becoming critically ill from COVID

As COVID-19 cases continue to climb across Oklahoma, officials say, this time around, the virus has set its sights on a much younger target. "It's really important for parents to know that our kids are at risk now," saidOklahoma Children’s Hospital Pediatrician Dr. Stephanie DeLeon. RELATED...

okcfox.com

In Oklahoma, 24% of all cases are peds patients. At Arkansas Children's they have a record high of 24 peds patients in the hospital with COVID, of those 7 are in the PICU, and 4 are on vents. I know on the surface that doesn't seem like a ton of patients, but it's concerning nevertheless. Hopefully, people get the idea out of their heads that kids can't get COVID or become seriously ill.

 

[Brett]

OU Children's Hospital warns more children are becoming critically ill from COVID

As COVID-19 cases continue to climb across Oklahoma, officials say, this time around, the virus has set its sights on a much younger target. "It's really important for parents to know that our kids are at risk now," saidOklahoma Children’s Hospital Pediatrician Dr. Stephanie DeLeon. RELATED...

okcfox.com

In Oklahoma, 24% of all cases are peds patients. At Arkansas Children's they have a record high of 24 peds patients in the hospital with COVID, of those 7 are in the PICU, and 4 are on vents. I know on the surface that doesn't seem like a ton of patients, but it's concerning nevertheless. Hopefully, people get the idea out of their heads that kids can't get COVID or become seriously ill.

Like our governor has been saying, he wants Oklahoma to be a Top 10 State. Unfortunately, he does not really care what we are Top 10 in.

 

[TexRex]

We need the vaccine approved for kids and we need it approved now. Here are two articles that came across today in one of my health news e-mails (Becker's if anyone is interested).

COVID-19 Update from Arkansas Children's

Arkansas Children's experienced a record number of COVID-19 hospitalizations today with 24 patients who are positive for COVID-19

www.archildrens.org

OU Children's Hospital warns more children are becoming critically ill from COVID

As COVID-19 cases continue to climb across Oklahoma, officials say, this time around, the virus has set its sights on a much younger target. "It's really important for parents to know that our kids are at risk now," saidOklahoma Children’s Hospital Pediatrician Dr. Stephanie DeLeon. RELATED...

okcfox.com

In Oklahoma, 24% of all cases are peds patients. At Arkansas Children's they have a record high of 24 peds patients in the hospital with COVID, of those 7 are in the PICU, and 4 are on vents. I know on the surface that doesn't seem like a ton of patients, but it's concerning nevertheless. Hopefully, people get the idea out of their heads that kids can't get COVID or become seriously ill.

Oh you just know there are right-wingers out there likely to call this child abuse advocacy.