Custom wheels give all 4 tyres the same width.... changes grip and balance

[Griffith500]

Without meaning to sound pissy, I already know with absolute certainty that I am correct and its already been confirmed by many others. There is not "some validity" - its an absolute fact beyond contestation. Why are we still debating this? I made the thread as an informative announcement so people don't wonder why their car is behaving strangely if they've fitted custom rims, not to go round and round in circles with people who, for some reason, choose not to accept it as fact.

Circles have this innate beauty, and mystery, too (why is the circumference pi times the diameter?), maybe people gravitate to them naturally. But it seems that no matter what evidence you present, some people are incapable of parsing it.

You need to present it in a way that makes sense to them. No, I have no idea what that is, because I can only think in terms of my own perception. That's why I have issues with circular discussions on this site, too.

 

[Vagabond]

Reality shouldn't really be open to interpretation. Sadly, reality ain't what it used to be...

A circular event can be cute too - a puppy chasing its tail in a fruitless attempt to stop it moving.

It can also be unfathomable, such as someone attempting fruitlessly to stick their head up their own backside.

 

[andryush]

Without meaning to sound pissy, I already know with absolute certainty that I am correct and its already been confirmed by many others. There is not "some validity" - its an absolute fact beyond contestation. Why are we still debating this? I made the thread as an informative announcement so people don't wonder why their car is behaving strangely if they've fitted custom rims, not to go round and round in circles with people who, for some reason, choose not to accept it as fact.

Maybe some people here are PD spies trying to fool us, so they don't need to fix this bug and publicly admit that they intentionally didn't added so anticipated and key feature like setting tire width for aftermarket rims.

 

[HuskyGT]

Well, I just bought the Ferrari 458 and things get really ugly with aftermarket wheels. As LS Chiou mentioned, the tire temperature indicator was orange through the entire race, even on the straight. With stock wheels the temperature indicator just lit orange during some turns, and it quickly went cold during the straight. I tried this in Monza.

 

[Sarkazmo]

For the naysayers:

The OP, Vagabond, is one of the best drivers there is on GTPlanet, probably one of the top drivers in the world. He ranks Division 1 Gold in GTPlanet WRS. That is the elite of the elite. D1 Golds are the cream of the alien crop. I'm a lowly Division 3 Bronze. On my best day I might be able to keep up with him if he was drunk and half asleep. D1's in general are referred to as "Machines" and "Aliens" by those of us in GTP WRS because they can take virtually any car and set the track alight with their speed lap after lap after lap with consistency that's quite frankly frustratingly, maddeningly difficult to compete against. If Vagabond can gain that much time from a back to stock wheel change then you should take notice. Vagabond also doesn't go around bragging, drawing attention to himself, or making claims he can't substantiate. He presented his case well, he made valid points, he gave examples, and many of us, of all skill levels, have verified his findings on our own cars.

It's a bug, deal with it, get over it, and hope/pray that PD fixes it sometime soon.

Sark

 

[SpikeyLEE]

So what cars does this not affect? It would be cool if there were some type of list.

 

[eSZee]

So what cars does this not affect? It would be cool if there were some type of list.

FWD cars usually have same width front and rear, same goes for MOST 4WD cars and some RWD/MR cars. Old american cars are usually even front and rear.
If you're not sure, check what the car has for tires in real life and go from there.

 

[swg]

Purchased a Reventon today and noticed a MASSIVE difference between handling with stock wheels and customs. Driving on customs was like having the traction of 4 bicycle tires on the car. Handling was great with stock rims.

 

[TenEightyOne]

For the naysayers:

The OP, Vagabond, is one of the best drivers there is on GTPlanet, probably one of the top drivers in the world. He ranks Division 1 Gold in GTPlanet WRS. That is the elite of the elite. D1 Golds are the cream of the alien crop. I'm a lowly Division 3 Bronze. On my best day I might be able to keep up with him if he was drunk and half asleep. D1's in general are referred to as "Machines" and "Aliens" by those of us in GTP WRS because they can take virtually any car and set the track alight with their speed lap after lap after lap with consistency that's quite frankly frustratingly, maddeningly difficult to compete against. If Vagabond can gain that much time from a back to stock wheel change then you should take notice. Vagabond also doesn't go around bragging, drawing attention to himself, or making claims he can't substantiate. He presented his case well, he made valid points, he gave examples, and many of us, of all skill levels, have verified his findings on our own cars.

It's a bug, deal with it, get over it, and hope/pray that PD fixes it sometime soon.

Sark

A guy who I race with at WorldLeagueRacing is, or so it sounds, of a similar metronomic super-fast breed as @Vagabond. I know what I feel when I test for these bugs and I'm sure they exist... but when I see the other guy's times and race reports I know for sure. If drivers like him tell you the car's max time/performance is X, Y or Z then it's best to just believe them

 

[yabiggoose]

You wouldn't think it would be hard to implement adjustable tyre widths..

 

[2cam16]

So I switched some of my cars back to stock wheels and lo and behold, much better handling! Elise, Aventador, NSX all running fine now with more grip. I'm not changing wheels on anymore of my staggered cars until it's fixed.
They REALLY need to fix this.

 

[Sarkazmo]

You wouldn't think it would be hard to implement adjustable tyre widths..

It really shouldn't be as those fields are already present in the database for each car. They'd have to design an interface for it. I think the difficulty would be in PP adjustment and setting a maximum allowed width as each car would be different and in how the width actually affects performance.

Sark

 

[andryush]

It really shouldn't be as those fields are already present in the database for each car. They'd have to design an interface for it. I think the difficulty would be in PP adjustment and setting a maximum allowed width as each car would be different and in how the width actually affects performance.

Sark

Right, they have to rewrite database and add few lines of code for every car in game to tell how much maximum width is allowed. PP adjustment shouldn't be problematic, they only need to redesign it to calculate PP basing on tire width. It's just another additional factor i think.
Also new telemetry system would be great addition, so player can see which parts of the tire has maximum contact path, temperature, this would greatly help properly setting the camber angle. Forza Motorsport does this perfectly.

 

[194GVan]

I keep checking this thread occasionally hoping to see its been fixed. Sad to see it wasnt with the last update, hope its fixed soon so I dont have to restrict myself from using aftermarket wheels on half my cars.

 

[stb155]

Is it possible that this bug is also happening in the 10 lap Silverstone race in "S" ?

I did it with a stock McLaren F1 (stealth racecar) on RH (ABS1 only)

The car changes completely after the stop.
Before front tires wear faster, after rear wear faster
Before it has understeer, after it is neutral but starts to oversteer as the rear wear so fast.
(Before stop i use full power in 3rd gear without problems, after i have to be careful, once the tires wear a bit i even have to be careful in 4th)

If i stop after 5th lap i can barely finish because rear tires are shot.
If i stop in 6th rear still have over 50% before the stop, at finish the 2nd ones are at/below 40%.

This sounds a LOT like the custom tire bug !

 

[R34EVO9]

This by far is the dumbest glitch I ever seen in my life its bad enough rims don't affect pp because their suppose to take away weight from the vehicle or add depending on size and width. But seeing we can only go up in size it makes sence

 

[Vagabond]

.....
This sounds a LOT like the custom tire bug !

It does sound alot like it... Worth looking into. I've heard mention more than few times of how different a car feels after doing a pit-stop. Possible there's some sort of tyre width glitch there as well. Seems more likely than the tyres being completely different. Save a replay and try and get a shot of the rears before and after a pit-stop and compare.

 

[stb155]

20min Apricot Hill race is the same.

Before stop front wears faster, car has understeering in fast corners.
After stop front&rear wear is the same, cars is neutral in corners and gets slight oversteer once the tires wear again.


This was not my discovery by the way, someone in the pcars forum mentioned it yesterday.
Also we had a thread about it in the past i think, someone testing for a league found that cars behave different before and after the 1st stop online.

It does sound alot like it... Worth looking into. I've heard mention more than few times of how different a car feels after doing a pit-stop. Possible there's some sort of tyre width glitch there as well. Seems more likely than the tyres being completely different. Save a replay and try and get a shot of the rears before and after a pit-stop and compare.

I already tried that, could not see a difference, but it was 1st time i used photo mode and i really suck at it.
So maybe someone else should try.

 

[Stotty]

Use the Rocket... does the races without a stop

 

[GordonS]

If somebody still wants evidence, just do this:
Take Cizeta V16T '94
Replace the original tyres with Sports Mediums.
With original wheels hold the car stationary.
Release brake and just full throttle.
The rear tyres will not burnout.
Replace the original wheels with aftermarket wheels, any size.
Same procedure: stand still, release the brakes and full throttle..
A very clean burnout will happen. (I tested at the beautiful, smooth surfaced Apricot Hill)
Please Polyphony D, patch this issue soon.

 

[stb155]

Street cars too, so it seems that EVERY TIME you change wheels (no matter if against customs in tuning or stock ones at a pitstop) you end up with to small rear tires on cars with wider ones stock !

I did the 20miles Willow Springs 8 lap race again 2 times.(~14th time now, stock MP4-12C, SH)
If i stop in 5th as i most times did the difference is only very small, only in the 2nd long corner and the last 2 corners i can fell less understeer again.

But i if i stop in 4th the difference in 8th lap is very big (compared to 4th), rear tires pretty much shot and lots of wheelspin even in 4th gear.


This is really a big one, if it would be only custom wheels it's bad enough, but i could see that happening.
(Maybe they included that feature late and probably did most of the testing with stock rims).

But that this happens every time you change wheels should have been noticed by someone...

 

[raven214]

Also we had a thread about it in the past i think, someone testing for a league found that cars behave different before and after the 1st stop online.

I believe you're referring to this thread:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/weird-bug-after-pit-stops-in-online-mode.294753/#post-9120355

These are easily 2 of the most important "universal" bugs in GT6 that need PD's immediate attention. The add-on rims/front tires for rears bug eliminates rims for everything in my mind - few of the cars I want to modify are FF so most everything is affected for me.

The pit stop/tire change bug is a game breaker for any online spec racing that makes pit stops, but I had no idea it affected offline as well. Of course it's hard to tell with endurance races missing from the game...

PD needs to make fixing these bugs a top priority.

 

[stb155]

I just tested the F40 and V16T in the 20min Willows race.

I can't see a difference in tire width before and after the stop.
(But again, i suck in photo mode)
I also can't tell if they change handling, they are very tailhappy from the start on, i can't drive them consistent because i only slide around and try not to crash/spin. Hard to tell if this "handling" changes a little before and after the stop.
I also drove them both very little before today, no races only a few min. in free ride.

So maybe this is a different bug.
Just don't think so, it fits to good.
Maybe you can see the difference in photo mode only with custom wheels because they get calculated/rendered differently but the bug in the physic model exists also with custom stock wheels ?

Anyway,
With the McLaren F1 Stealth i'am 100% sure there is a change before/after pit stop.
With the MP4-12C i'am also 99% sure.

 

[Griffith500]

I just tested the F40 and V16T in the 20min Willows race.

I can't see a difference in tire width before and after the stop.
(But again, i suck in photo mode)
I also can't tell if they change handling, they are very tailhappy from the start on, i can't drive them consistent because i only slide around and try not to crash/spin. Hard to tell if this "handling" changes a little before and after the stop.
I also drove them both very little before today, no races only a few min. in free ride.

So maybe this is a different bug.
Just don't think so, it fits to good.
Maybe you can see the difference in photo mode only with custom wheels because they get calculated/rendered differently but the bug in the physic model exists also with custom wheels ?

Anyway,
With the McLaren F1 Stealth i'am 100% sure there is a change before/after pit stop.
With the MP4-12C i'am also 99% sure.

I couldn't tell in testing an F40 and BTR online at Monza "no chicanes" (Curva Grande as it's meant to be!), either. Got bored after that! (Science is exhausting)

I expected they'd be "more noticeable", too, but perhaps, as you say, the opposite is true given their spikiness? Got nice and tuned into them in that time, though, very rewarding to learn to drive (I even removed my cheating diff from the F40).

I could try some other cars at some point, but I'm lazy.

 

[MaDHaX]

Is it possible that this bug is also happening in the 10 lap Silverstone race in "S" ?

I did it with a stock McLaren F1 (stealth racecar) on RH (ABS1 only)

The car changes completely after the stop.
Before front tires wear faster, after rear wear faster
Before it has understeer, after it is neutral but starts to oversteer as the rear wear so fast.
(Before stop i use full power in 3rd gear without problems, after i have to be careful, once the tires wear a bit i even have to be careful in 4th)

If i stop after 5th lap i can barely finish because rear tires are shot.
If i stop in 6th rear still have over 50% before the stop, at finish the 2nd ones are at/below 40%.

This sounds a LOT like the custom tire bug !

There definitely is an issue with tyre width and how the staggered cars handle after adding custom wheels but the bug you mention is a different one all together. That one is a weird one and seems as though it is affecting afew cars.

This bug is mentioned in another thread and is known already but that was with the GT3 cars. It seems to be affecting the FR and MR cars in different ways. The R8 LMS Ultra feels much better after the pitstop, all the other GT3 cars being FR cars were worse after the pitstop.

Vagabond if you have the time, could you also test this out? It's not for my own clarification as I already have seen the difference. But this seems to be affecting more than just these GT3 cars. If this is something that is affecting all cars right across the board then it is something PD need to take very seriously.

So far from what we know MR cars get improved handling whereas FR cars get worse after pitstop.

 

[V8-Johnboy]

Random question does anyone have any performance data for the premium BMW M3? We are currently testing (or should i say trying too) for BST V8 season 9 and have found the after market rim consistently faster with this particular car.
I believe what you say 200% after all we found the stock rim was considerably better/quicker on the Corvette Stingray 2014. Its all very

 

[stb155]

So far from what we know MR cars get improved handling whereas FR cars get worse after pitstop.

I would not say it like that.
They have less understeer at high speed corners because the reduced grip at the rear makes the rear slide wide a bit and helps turning.
But overall the reduced grip/traction has a negative effect on laptimes and also rear tire life is reduced a lot.
(And once rear is below 50% handling gets really difficult)

I gonna do some tests tomorrow, first i will put custom rims on my MP4-12C and check if there is still a difference in handling before/after pitstop. (And to check if it handles the same way as with stock rims after pit stop)

Is there any MR or FR (or 4x4) car with same tire width front and rear in the 5-600pp range ?

 

[eSZee]

Random question does anyone have any performance data for the premium BMW M3? We are currently testing (or should i say trying too) for BST V8 season 9 and have found the after market rim consistently faster with this particular car.
I believe what you say 200% after all we found the stock rim was considerably better/quicker on the Corvette Stingray 2014. Its all very

245 front 265 rear.
Small difference. Take into account the car is set up for understeer therefore 245 all around would make it more neutral, in my opinion.

 

[SpikeyLEE]

can someone pls show a pic of the mustang SVT cobra side by side stock vs aftermarket and see if there's a difference? because I can't really see a difference driving them and I can't get my camera to the correct angle to show each cars set of tires to see if one is wider.

 

[SpikeyLEE]

Where can I find the tire section numbers at in tis game? ex: 235/255. I think a couple of people have been mentioning certain cars tire sections but I don't know where I can find those numbers in the game or if we can.

Sorry for double post