- 21
- Toronto
This is a concerning bug... I'm glad I read this thread first before I swapped out any stock rims for new ones! I really hope PD fixes this in the next patch.
Custom wheels give all 4 tyres the same width.... changes grip and balance
- Thread starter Vagabond
- 361 comments
- 46,150 views
- 34
- Japan
- Mr Shakotan
I call hoax on this i got a better lap time after with custom wheels
- 126
- Utrecht
- Don-Joo
@Mr Shakotan and for the people here who think this is a hoax or a bunch of people whining about custom tyres dont behave well, let me tell you this.
Ive tested both the lamborghinis diablo gt and gt 2 (not the raceversion that was in gt5 ) since releasedate and even made a thread for this.
With testing i mean 5 days in a row figuring out what the problem was.
If you dont believe the custom wheel bug is true, you can easily test this yourself!
Its quite simple, Stop the car and from a standing start with std wheels push the trottle flat out in a straight line and you will notice that there is no wheelspin, no griploss!
Then change to customwheels and try the same thing above, and you will notice that there is no grip at all, the wheels just keep spinning.
And second when laptimes with std wheels are at least 3 seconds faster when pushing real hard, you cant simply denied there is something wrong!
On trial mountain with the first 5 laps i already did times i couldnt even get with custom wheels!
No Hoax!
here is the link to the thread. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/lamborghini-diablo-gt2-gt3-racecars.292662/
Remember that this thread was before the bug was known!
Ive tested both the lamborghinis diablo gt and gt 2 (not the raceversion that was in gt5 ) since releasedate and even made a thread for this.
With testing i mean 5 days in a row figuring out what the problem was.
If you dont believe the custom wheel bug is true, you can easily test this yourself!
Its quite simple, Stop the car and from a standing start with std wheels push the trottle flat out in a straight line and you will notice that there is no wheelspin, no griploss!
Then change to customwheels and try the same thing above, and you will notice that there is no grip at all, the wheels just keep spinning.
And second when laptimes with std wheels are at least 3 seconds faster when pushing real hard, you cant simply denied there is something wrong!
On trial mountain with the first 5 laps i already did times i couldnt even get with custom wheels!
No Hoax!
here is the link to the thread. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/lamborghini-diablo-gt2-gt3-racecars.292662/
Remember that this thread was before the bug was known!
- 448
- Wittgenstein
It's a shame this still hasn't been fixed but I'm impressed that the game seems to correctly model the behaviour of removing the stagger. I remember lots of discussion about stagger on a forum for the car I own in real life and all but one person agreed that removing the stagger made the car a shocker to drive.
As I say, the impressive bit is the way the handling gets screwed up in the game seems an almost perfect match for the way the handeling gets screwed up in real life.
As I say, the impressive bit is the way the handling gets screwed up in the game seems an almost perfect match for the way the handeling gets screwed up in real life.
- 152
- Toronto, Ontario
In short it means some cars have a wider rear tire for the purposes of increased girp in the rear, usually seen in rear wheel drive cars. It's very common in Mid rear engined cars as well, also some 4wd cars such as the 911 Turbo has the same set up.
Thats why you saw a change in grip level in the Lambos because they have the same set up, and most are 4wd as well. Im also surpized and glad the game models the grip loss well, impressive.
Thats why you saw a change in grip level in the Lambos because they have the same set up, and most are 4wd as well. Im also surpized and glad the game models the grip loss well, impressive.
- 448
- Wittgenstein
Like he says ^^^^
So, you might have 205 front tyres and 225s at the back, for example.
In the case of my car: http://mr2oc.co.uk/know-your-2-knowledge-base/mr2-mk3.html?kbartid=21
So, you might have 205 front tyres and 225s at the back, for example.
In the case of my car: http://mr2oc.co.uk/know-your-2-knowledge-base/mr2-mk3.html?kbartid=21
- 126
- Utrecht
- Don-Joo
@Mad Matt and @E30 Evo Sport , thanks for the explanation guys, where im from we just call that big rear tyres 
Btw nice avatar e30 evo sport, i had that as a desktop image years ago!
Btw nice avatar e30 evo sport, i had that as a desktop image years ago!
- 152
- Toronto, Ontario
A good car to learn the driving style of MR cars is the NSX-R 02 in this game. In GT5 on CS tires it was very nice at the limit when getting used to the car that's when the fun started. The handling is almost telepathic at times. It's a much nicer car to get used to then other MR cast like the Elise, which has a shorter wheel base and can be more twitcy. The Evora is great car too. Try those two cars and then cars like the Enzo, F40, McF1 etc. will become easier to drive.
- 24
- PA
- Slickster
- 4,089
- Utah
ALL staggered cars are affected. No exceptions. It all depends in the difference of the tire width. If the difference is minimum, the loss of grip is barely noticeable. Lets also take in consideration the tire compound. For those of us who prefer Comfort Soft to Sport Hard tires, this glitch affects us more. For all those who just put Racing Soft tires in everything, they shouldn't even be complaining.
A good example of cars that are barely affected could be the M3 E92, 135i, Mustang Boss 302, Shelby GT500,Charger SRT8 and many other cars which tire width difference is almost none. You can feel a sudden loss of grip during a turn, but it's controllable.
Super cars, MR cars, cars like the Viper and others with a massive stagger will not only look terrible, but will have a significant loss of grip.
Regardless if this glitch causes a major loss of performance or not, it still has no excuse. This glitch is high priority and PD needs to fix this ASAP.
A good example of cars that are barely affected could be the M3 E92, 135i, Mustang Boss 302, Shelby GT500,
Super cars, MR cars, cars like the Viper and others with a massive stagger will not only look terrible, but will have a significant loss of grip.
Regardless if this glitch causes a major loss of performance or not, it still has no excuse. This glitch is high priority and PD needs to fix this ASAP.
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- 34
- Japan
- Mr Shakotan
I cant speak for everyone But I have tested this In arcade mode and career mode. Im doing it again right now, I am not getting this effect you speak of. And lets be reasonable for a second. Do you really think think the programming of the game is going too make your car have less handling or a slower lap time because of a visual mistake by PD. From a data stand point it also doesnt make sence. As swapping wheels is visual programming not performance programming. there is no reason a visual line of programming would effect a performance line of code. Its not even the same area of programming. Not only that but even if this is true your handling is based on your skill even if there is less rear grip because of this a good driver should either A account for this in braking and handling or B go into the car setting and adjust for this. IMO this seems more like driver error as Its just a coin toss as to getting exact lap time every time. Now you should be getting faster lap time every so laps from doing it constantly which is the result Im getting Im getting a better lap time every so many passes and every few passe I loss time due to driver error. It has nothing too do with the fact the wheel tire combo has a visual difference its driver error. Im usuing a stock RGT and I am only added wheels, and I am not seeing this. I am also trying this in a non staggered car a stock 73 skyline on arcade and career I just don't see it. This is my theory as too whats happening. I think because people noticed the width difference they automatically think o its going to be a grip difference like it would in real life, So while driving you tell yourself there is not going to be the same grip so you don't drive as hard or push too hard too see what happens. Just like when I use the big MB amg cars to drift when I tell myself those cars are long and im getting too close to a wall or off track I do, when I ignore the weight a sheer mass of those cars I do good. I would not expect a person that played the same track for 4 hours strait to always get a better lap time as your gong to make a mistake even if said mistake doesn't take you off track it effect lap time. I suggest tighting up the rear sway bar and see if that helps alot if that the case it does its possible that the wheel choice does effect this. or have somebody else play that isnt aware of your theory try with and without the wheels On a bone stock car and see if they notice it without you telling them anything too go on or why you keep swapping the wheels. If they notice on there own that this happens to them. You at least have a base or control to your theory. It does not prove it however. What we need is a person who can pull codes of game or save data and see if in the coding there is a affect in performance due too wheel choice
- 177
- RSnider
GT6 uses a bespoke tire and suspension model. In layman's terms, this means it computes what is actually going on between the tire and the road. It absolutely takes into account the tire width, as this is an enormous factor in how much grip is available. It is not merely a visual mistake.
- 260
- Białystok/PL//Kiel/DE
- andryush
So you're telling me that this is only my imagination? If i dont think about it, i would drive better?
And it's only a visual bug? "
I don't think so.
Your theory about pleyer's imagination is invalid - when changing wheels, i forgot to hit "buy" button after choosing standard wheels, instead i just hit "circle" button to go back. I thought i changed wheels and went to free roam and test car on track. I was driving and thinking - damn, there's no difference, what are this people whining about? I was driving hard, giving my best. I have beaten my own best lap time few times. Later i quit free roam and went back to garage - i was really surprised with what i saw - my car still had custom wheels on, all that time i was driving a car with custom wheels on, i didn't changed it! That's why i didn't see any difference in driving physics! Because i didn't changed rims. Then i changed back to stock wheels and went testing again. I made lap time better by 1.2s after first lap on track! If i had made more laps, the difference would be even larger!
This RGT i drove today, on custom wheels rear spins a lot. With stock wheels, rear seems a little heavier, but it's more stable and you can push the car harder in the turns without burnouts. On custom wheels rear seems more stiff, on stock it feels softer.
- 239
- Houston, TX
- walterjoe
- IAS EAGLE 5
Good job PD on good physics modeling but bad job on not retaining the stagger
Found this out on my Evora last night. Normally the handling is very mild and easy but add custom wheels and the car just wants to turn in like crazy, and unfortunaly try to swap ends on you.
Gotta admit though did that on Spa and once I got the hang of it the car was a blast to drive. I guess as a temporary fix I could add grippier tires in the back.
Found this out on my Evora last night. Normally the handling is very mild and easy but add custom wheels and the car just wants to turn in like crazy, and unfortunaly try to swap ends on you.
Gotta admit though did that on Spa and once I got the hang of it the car was a blast to drive. I guess as a temporary fix I could add grippier tires in the back.
- 34
- Japan
- Mr Shakotan
Even if so how can you accurately test this with results set in stone. If i was a programmer wouldn't matter how much they pay me too do it I would not for one make a visual change affect performance that's just stupid and i would assume a program is far from that at the very least with programming. Two It doesn't make sense to program or make a line of code like this too have a negative effect. Why didn't anybody catch this while testing the game before production? Why in the wheel description tab of the wheel selection screen does it not at least give the disclaimer for a heads up? I am sure they tested the wheel option on every car they are available to at the very least see if visually it would even render or not crash the program. If its as bad as implied somebody would have noticed this while testing, and would have did something about it, after from all the GT games of people complaining about wheel choices. That had to be one of the biggest gripes about the game since GT1, so I don't buy it. And I also wouldn't waste the extra time and programming effort to program a performance difference from a visual effect, it be extra work for nothing and too only get a negative affect. Who on here can pull or run or read code to confirm this? Now i have only had the game about 6 days and I haven't gone trough every option, course, or car, but i think in previous game the course anylizer show your input of gas, brake, e-brake, braking and accel point, steering input, or generally what you were pressing during the replay. I am not sure if this is still possible, but if it is you should be able to take replay of with and without wheels and see if your even doing the exact same speed the same time in the same speed and position on the track. It be the closest thing you could do to at the very least too even see how much driver error or improvement you have. Other than pulling the code or viewing the programming it really would be the only way too confirm this going of just a slower lap time isnt enough evidence that this is actually happening. Im sorry its not. Until we get a PD person, a hacker or a person well experianced with pulling reading and understanding code, all you have is a theory. Im sorry i am not trying too be difficult so excuse my transgression or doubt i just don't see where there is even enough data too support this theory
- 34
- Japan
- Mr Shakotan
The problem I am having is I actually am trying this and I dont feel it notice it and my lap times are getting quicker just like i would think it would from constantly running the same track and all I can see is a visual difference in tire width. So in some way this is not confired as everybody doing this is not getting the same results
- 11,343
- Chicago, iLL
- GTP_Nismo
Clearly, that was not the case and the visual change in width alone proves that.
If by testing you mean put wheel on, looked at it, and put it back to stock then yes, that is a possibility as the wheel retains stock width unless you exit the wheel selection screen and come back to look at it again.
Wouldn't all that be affected by grip levels? Exiting corners would be harder therefore reducing speed on the straightaways. Steering input would be different again due to less grip.
- 260
- Białystok/PL//Kiel/DE
- andryush
Put sports soft tires on RGT and test it on custom and stock wheels. Post your lap times here.
This are my results:
2:19 is my lap time made with stock wheels, 2:21 with aftermarket.
Also i think that physics engine is coded in a way that takes into account different variables - including wheel width. So they didn't have to hard code different physics model for aftermarket wheels. Everything is calculated automatically.
It's graphics guys from PD who ****ed up their job, because they didn't make custom wheels to have exact width like stock wheels. They made it "resetting" to match width of front wheels only.
And it looks like physics engine calculates physics basing on what is actually modelled in game, not on what is written somewhere in code. Graphics guy made all wheels to have width of 205mm - physics engine calculates physics basing on that data.
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- 34
- Japan
- Mr Shakotan
- 11,343
- Chicago, iLL
- GTP_Nismo
- 260
- Białystok/PL//Kiel/DE
- andryush
These are not single laps. 2:21 lap time was achieved after ~15 laps on track, i couldn't made it faster, so i saved ghost data. Then changed wheels, loaded ghost data, and voilà! after first attempt i made it quicker by 1.2s!
(I don’t know if i correctly understood what you wanted to say
)
- 34
- Japan
- Mr Shakotan
Put sports soft tires on RGT and test it on custom and stock wheels. Post your lap times here.
This are my results:
It shouldn't matter what tire it is if there is a adverse affect from this tire type shouldn't matter as either way if the wheels affect this it will still have a effect on every tire you try it on and actually the worse tire or best tire would be the better control for the theory, because the worse tire you would notice more how bad this is and the best tire you would also notice more. Plus what do we really see in this pic lap time and that's all, there isnt even a tab on the side like when you check online results as too what tire and setup your using. Anybody can post lap time and say the best one is stock wheels. If anything a replay with a ghost on would be more beliveable cause the best lap time is what the ghost is running just from that you should see your mistake and how much faster around the track you really was. Even them without the course anylizer how would anybody tell if you wasnt peddling on purpose for a slower time. Im not saying your a lyer or cheat Im say its not enough to prove anything not even enough to have a good theory
