Daily races are now WEEKLY races (POLL)

[VFOURMAX1]

With the amount of folk that actually participate in sport mode races, that would be a resounding no,

View attachment 758866

Actually in my opinion using such a small sample size of only 54,000 to guesstimate the real world Sport Mode activity level of over 5 million players is nothing but unsupportable numbers based off how many players may have played only during the time sampled and of the accounts that were used in the sample.

Actual numbers from across the entire player base may give totally different numbers.

Just like the poll in this thread, such a small percentage of respondents as compared to over 5 million players the actual results do not indicate a preference realistically at all.

 

[rono_thomas]

Actually in my opinion using such a small sample size of only 54,000 to guesstimate the real world Sport Mode activity level of over 5 million players is nothing but unsupportable numbers based off how many players may have played only during the time sampled and of the accounts that were used in the sample.

Actual numbers from across the entire player base may give totally different numbers.

Just like the poll in this thread, such a small percentage of respondents as compared to over 5 million players the actual results do not indicate a preference realistically at all.

Thats quite simply because of the 5 million that bought the game only 25% played sport mode and 6% of those have only played it more than 20 times. So Why are using 5 million?

Edit: viewing the graph as it is will work fine as more data points are accrued. We are not looking for an exact figure only has player particpation increased, decreased or stayed the same.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Thats quite simply because of the 5 million that bought the game only 25% played sport mode and 6% of those have only played it more than 20 times. So Why are using 5 million?

Because those figures or statistic numbers are obtained by a random sampling of only 54,000 player accounts out of over 5 million accounts.

Read the fine print from the bottom of the chart YOU posted and you have your answer.

 

[rono_thomas]

Because those figures or statistic numbers are obtained by a random sampling of only 54,000 player accounts out of over 5 million accounts.

Read the fine print from the bottom of the chart YOU posted and you have your answer.
View attachment 758867

Edit: viewing the graph as it is will work fine as more data points are accrued. We are not looking for an exact figure only has player particpation increased, decreased or stayed the same.

Then I guess if weeklies remain weeklies then PD will consider it a sucess.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

viewing the graph as it is will work fine as more data points are accrued. We are not looking for an exact figure only has player particpation increased, decreased or stayed the same.

When the numbers are based off of a 5% sample size of the actual player base then you are just guessing the participation of the other 95% accounts.

No way that such figures can be deemed as actually being an accurate figure to base success or failure off of.

PD on the other hand probably has the data in complete real world figures that it will use to bases changes off of.

I still think a 3 day rotation with 1 new race each day is the realistic best option.

 

[fastone371]

The figures above pretty much say that the interweb racing has been vastly unpopular.

76% of people whi bought GT sport never even once played sport mode.

It also has nothing to do with what I want, but more to do with what the available data is showing.

Well according to the available data at the beginning of this thread shows that less than 10% are happy with the change to weekly races, same thing I said in my first comment.

 

[rono_thomas]

When the numbers are based off of a 5% sample size of the actual player base then you are just guessing the participation of the other 95% accounts.

No way that such figures can be deemed as actually being an accurate figure to base success or failure off of.

PD on the other hand probably has the data in complete real world figures that it will use to bases changes off of.

I still think a 3 day rotation with 1 new race each day is the realistic best option.

I actually voted both so a 3 day rotation is nearly a good compromise, the 5% guestimate is the best we can do, and whilst I agree that its still too much guess work, its a tiny glimpse into what is usually for PD’s eyes only.

Well according to the available data at the beginning of this thread shows that less than 10% are happy with the change to weekly races, same thing I said in my first comment.

Ok so lets forget figures, does the fact its only daily mean you play the game less or not all?

 

[fastone371]

Ok so lets forget figures, does the fact its only daily mean you play the game less or not all?

Absolutley!!! I was racing 11-16 races per week when the change was daily, now I'm racing 1-2 times per week since the change. I like to only race in race C, the others are just too short and everyone goes for 1st place L1T1 and its usually a big wreck. If I dont care for the race C track or car I will skip it.

 

[Mudkev]

There's two things you can do to bring it to Polyphony Digital's attention that 95% of the players

don't like how the daily change of tracks has dissappeared from the daily races since the august patch.

1. You can change your greeting when entering and leaving a race to say "COPYTHISIFUWANTDAILYCHANGEOFTRACKSBACK=)".

2. Tweet one of the following urls to kaz_yamauchi on twitter !

https://community.eu.playstation.com/t5/GT-Sport/TAKE-THE-POLL-Daily-races-ruined-The-majority-of-pl...

or

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/daily-races-are-now-weekly-races-poll.380438/

 

[VFOURMAX1]

There's two things you can do to bring it to Polyphony Digital's attention that 95% of the players

don't like how the daily change of tracks has dissappeared from the daily races since the august patch.

And you derive your 95% figure of the entire Sport Mode player base do not like the change from what source may I ask?
Please do not say from this thread or poll as less than 600 responses out of over 5 million players does not quite meet a criteria of being 95%.

 

[Outspacer]

When the numbers are based off of a 5% sample size of the actual player base then you are just guessing the participation of the other 95% accounts.

No way that such figures can be deemed as actually being an accurate figure to base success or failure off of.

PD on the other hand probably has the data in complete real world figures that it will use to bases changes off of.

Jasguer's site has full stats from scanning all profiles. Most of the stats from scanning 5% of profiles are honestly so close to those that any differences are irrelevant.

From all profiles, 94.746% have done less than 20 races - https://www.jasonguernsey.net/gts/drivers-by/race-count

I still think a 3 day rotation with 1 new race each day is the realistic best option.

I agree, that was the best suggestion so far. I think 'both' probably doesn't give anyone what they want (many people voting for it might imagine that means 3 dailies plus a weekly or two, when I don't think more than 3 races at any time is on PD's option list at all). If PD did provide 'both' it might well be in the form of a daily race A, a daily or weekly race B and a weekly race C.

Another idea might be to open qualifying for a few days before races, so there are more than 3 events concurrently but still only 3 actual races available at any time. I don't see the harm in letting people know what's coming up.

 

[rono_thomas]

From all profiles, 94.746% have done less than 20 races - https://www.jasonguernsey.net/gts/drivers-by/race-count

Thats near enough the same figures as KP’s that is a big surprise.

 

[Outspacer]

Thats near enough the same figures as KP’s that is a big surprise.

Milouse seems to know what he's doing with stats - I know he doesn't publish any he thinks are inaccurate. I don't know what method he uses for sampling, but I guess that the 5% he polls is a different 5% each time - and it keeps coming up with about the same figure

But we have to be careful not to read more into them than we should! While I believe them to be accurate statistics, I don't think they always give us the information we need to be able to judge certain things accurately. Take DR for example. The stats shows masses of players at DR D, but they aren't really the ones we're interested in because that includes many that have given up (after maybe not many more the 5 races cut-off for that stat). The information we'd like is a stat based on currently active players in some way, but 'active' is hard to define and detect. I might technically be in the top 1%, but it doesn't mean much when a high % have stopped playing!

That said, the sport mode participation stat is more straightforward. Sure, there's a bunch of beta-only players who drag it down, but then more recent buyers might push it up (by about the same?). So I think it's probably not even across all players - the conjecture is that the more recently someone acquired GTS, the more likely they are to participate in online races - but the statistics we have don't tell us whether or how those things correlate. To be clear I expect it's only a minor effect that makes little difference to the stat, but it would be interesting to know all the same.

 

[rono_thomas]

Milouse seems to know what he's doing with stats - I know he doesn't publish any he thinks are inaccurate. I don't know what method he uses for sampling, but I guess that the 5% he polls is a different 5% each time - and it keeps coming up with about the same figure

But we have to be careful not to read more into them than we should! While I believe them to be accurate statistics, I don't think they always give us the information we need to be able to judge certain things accurately. Take DR for example. The stats shows masses of players at DR D, but they aren't really the ones we're interested in because that includes many that have given up (after maybe not many more the 5 races cut-off for that stat). The information we'd like is a stat based on currently active players in some way, but 'active' is hard to define and detect. I might technically be in the top 1%, but it doesn't mean much when a high % have stopped playing!

That said, the sport mode participation stat is more straightforward. Sure, there's a bunch of beta-only players who drag it down, but then more recent buyers might push it up (by about the same?). So I think it's probably not even across all players - the conjecture is that the more recently someone acquired GTS, the more likely they are to participate in online races - but the statistics we have don't tell us whether or how those things correlate. To be clear I expect it's only a minor effect that makes little difference to the stat, but it would be interesting to know all the same.

I am shocked at how few stay around in sport mode, but I guess from all the stats and figures gleamed from GT6 I should have expected it.

I am curious to see if the change from dailies to weeklies will stem this natural decline that sport mode particpation numbers had been experiencing but this needs to be a consistent result for pretty long period of time, the longer the better. Theres too many variables that can be considered that would also affect participation.

 

[Outspacer]

I am shocked at how few stay around in sport mode, but I guess from all the stats and figures gleamed from GT6 I should have expected it.

I am curious to see if the change from dailies to weeklies will stem this natural decline that sport mode particpation numbers had been experiencing but this needs to be a consistent result for pretty long period of time, the longer the better. Theres too many variables that can be considered that would also affect participation.

The stats for daily and weekly active players in sport mode had sort of levelled out for the last couple of months. In my previous post I was just thinking about the overall participation stat. For the daily and weekly ones I wouldn't like to guess how accurate they are in absolute terms (because the conjecture I had might not be so minor in this case). If the change to weekly races has an effect I think it will show up as a change in those stats, but the stats could well show a smaller and/or slower change than reality.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I am shocked at how few stay around in sport mode, but I guess from all the stats and figures gleamed from GT6 I should have expected it.
Theres too many variables that can be considered that would also affect participation.

I am still playing the game but have not raced a Sport Mode race in months.

I think the problems with the matching system and even more so the changes in the penalty system which made the racing worse as far as getting good clean races have pushed many away from sport mode.

I like the game, and since the new tire physics update I think the game is driving wise is the best it has ever been since launch.
But it had gotten to a point where getting clean races was a more rare occurrence than a being rammed and nudged on half the corners where the races ended up more frustrating than enjoyable.

Now from what I read it is much easier to lose ranking both DR and SR through no fault of your own than ever before and much more difficult to regain those losses.

So why join in a race where the racers that ram and drive badly are the ones that are rewarded?

Sport Mode in my opinion will continue to bleed players unless the system is overhauled to a point where clean racing is rewarded and bad driving is eliminated in the higher ranks.

As long as the online aspect is just as likely to leave a player mad, disappointed or disgusted rather than elated and excited from the racing experience many will not bother with that aspect of the game.

Most play a game for the fun and enjoyment, not to be left pissed off and with Sport Mode flip a coin as to what will be the results of a racing session currently as the system is broken in more ways than one.

 

[Jess_Pinkman]

1st Fact: GT Sport is all about competition, Whether we want dailies or weeklies, we are all here because we want to be competitive (as per definition = better than others).

2nd Fact: Our racing skills on a specific track follow a logarithmic curve, when we practice on a new track, the first 10 minutes will see improvements of 50%, then the next hour will see improvements of 30%, then the next 2 hours maybe 20% and so on.


Let’s look at person A, B and C for a specific track

A: has plenty of time (3 hours+ per day)
B: has a good amount of time (2 hours per day)
C: has a very limited time per day (<1 hour)


With dailies: A and B are both competitive, with a slight advantage for A. C simply cannot compete. Eventually, C gives up on GT sport.

With weeklies A and B have a very similar skill level, with A having a very narrow edge (logarithmic curve). C is now competitive.

Problem, C is now much faster, he can drive at a pace close to A and B, but C doesn’t have the racing experience. He doesn’t know the proper etiquette, he lacks the experience to make the right call during an offensive or defensive move, he is overtaken by emotions and stress. A and B will definitely feel the races are getting less clean now. Hopefully, with time C will get better at driving clean.


By the way, I am C, I gave up on the game, and now back with the weeklies, and sorry for the people I hit last week with bad calls, I'll get better

 

[ramurel]

I just changed my vote for "weekly", I started to believe it's a better way to improve on those tracks, more time to correct small driving details, IMO!

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Problem, C is now much faster, he can drive at a pace close to A and B, but C doesn’t have the racing experience. He doesn’t know the proper etiquette, he lacks the experience to make the right call during an offensive or defensive move, he is overtaken by emotions and stress. A and B will definitely feel the races are getting less clean now. Hopefully, with time C will get better at driving clean.

This is SUPPOSED to be the reason that we have a SR and DR ranking system.

The SR system is to place racers together as far as the amount of contact incidents or mistakes a racer seems to make over the course of a race distance to place racers in races with the same skill level type of racers as far as remaining in control or racing "clean" with a like amount if any contact incidents or off road excursions over the course of a normal racing distance as per that racers recent past race history.

The DR system is supposed to rank racers together with racers of a similar pace or skills within a race as based off of their pace or speed in negotiating their way around a racing circuit.

If these systems actually did the job as they are designed to do then racers will be placed within lobbies of races with other racers of similar pace and skills and as a racer gets better or faster he will be then put in with faster and better racers AFTER he has the skills to race cleanly with those racers not before he has those skills.

The ranking systems currently fail in many cases to do the job they were supposed to accomplish and as a result any Sport Mode race lobby is like a game of russian roulette, you never know whether it is going to take you out or not each time you pull the trigger and enter a race.

 

[Jess_Pinkman]

This is SUPPOSED to be the reason that we have a SR and DR ranking system.

The DR system is supposed to rank racers together with racers of a similar pace or skills within a race as based off of their pace or speed in negotiating their way around a racing circuit.

Yes, but this is a complex issue I guess.
- If it is both easy to lose and gain SR, some C drivers will get in the same lobby as A and B, even though they might not be ready.
- If it is easy to lose SR, but hard to gain/regain it, C will not be mixed with S rated A and B's, but then skilled drivers will be pretty pissed off to get stuck at a B/C ratings after a bad race for a while.
- If it is both hard to lose and gain SR, then the racing might not be that clean.

 

[Silver_Wolf]

To add some points on the issue of lobby matchmaking.

At the moment I am DR B/SR A and at present the matchmaking does not seem to match me with similar drivers. The one race I did this
morning before work at Brands Hatch had four A+ drivers, me the sole B and the rest a mix of DR C and DR D.

Thus I only gained 1 SR point for an 8th place finish due to the higher ranked drivers finishing ahead of me, the only time I have found
you get consistently matched with similar drivers is if you are SR S but of course getting back to that point is proving tricky due to
having to race clean and finish well to gain more SR points.

The problem as I see it is that if there are changes made to the SR/DR points system it could run the risk of those of us who keep
ending up dropping down struggle even more to get it back.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Yes, but this is a complex issue I guess.
- If it is both easy to lose and gain SR, some C drivers will get in the same lobby as A and B, even though they might not be ready.
- If it is easy to lose SR, but hard to gain/regain it, C will not be mixed with S rated A and B's, but then skilled drivers will be pretty pissed off to get stuck at a B/C ratings after a bad race for a while.
- If it is both hard to lose and gain SR, then the racing might not be that clean.

And this is where the current broken penalty system comes into play as in many cases racers are unfairly losing SR due to issues where actually they are a victim and have done nothing wrong but are still losing SR.

It is a complex issue but as the current systems have shown they are not working as intended in my opinion.
Until the issues are addressed then there will be no improvements and the bad on track behaviors will continue to be rewarded at the expense of those that prefer to not game the system in the search for clean racing.

 

[Solocapers]

To add some points on the issue of lobby matchmaking.

At the moment I am DR B/SR A and at present the matchmaking does not seem to match me with similar drivers. The one race I did this
morning before work at Brands Hatch had four A+ drivers, me the sole B and the rest a mix of DR C and DR D.

Thus I only gained 1 SR point for an 8th place finish due to the higher ranked drivers finishing ahead of me, the only time I have found
you get consistently matched with similar drivers is if you are SR S but of course getting back to that point is proving tricky due to
having to race clean and finish well to gain more SR points.

The problem as I see it is that if there are changes made to the SR/DR points system it could run the risk of those of us who keep
ending up dropping down struggle even more to get it back.

That'll be why to be fair.. if you are coming on at around 7-8am UK time then you wont be getting too many players in the EU area who are going to be a good match, that's just purely a player numbers issue. The game wants to fill the lobby to the max so if your coming on before 10am throughout the whole of Europe then you cant expect too many drivers of the same rank and safety rating on.

Any time after 12pm ive never had a problem with the Driver Rating being nearly all B rating with a couple c's or a's but even then that's rare..

The matchmaking with 'similar' levelled drivers works pretty well in the afternoon and evening up till about 11 pm. Which is understandable as the overall player numbers tail off.

The big problem more than anything and which will turn most people off is the safety rating.... PD need to be harsher with dirty driving.

Its ruining the experience, over the last few nights ive went from a S rating to a C rating.. Ive looked at posters on here saying similar and thought they must be ramming but rammers have clearly found ways to game the system and im almost at the point of giving up on sport mode.

Ive been S rank basically since my first few races and now after 100 and odd in, ive now suddenly dropped to C rank in the space of 5 or 6 races with penalties for being smashed off or used as a pinball.

 

[rono_thomas]

To add some points on the issue of lobby matchmaking.

At the moment I am DR B/SR A and at present the matchmaking does not seem to match me with similar drivers. The one race I did this
morning before work at Brands Hatch had four A+ drivers, me the sole B and the rest a mix of DR C and DR D.

Thus I only gained 1 SR point for an 8th place finish due to the higher ranked drivers finishing ahead of me, the only time I have found
you get consistently matched with similar drivers is if you are SR S but of course getting back to that point is proving tricky due to
having to race clean and finish well to gain more SR points.

The problem as I see it is that if there are changes made to the SR/DR points system it could run the risk of those of us who keep
ending up dropping down struggle even more to get it back.

I find that this has been the case as I have moved up the ranks, the exception being the time that you are actually playing the game, if your playing in the morning or very late at night the pool of players to be matched with is a lot smaller, and your more likely to be matched with different dr, but if you play during peak times I have found that match making is much more accurate.

I believe the problem here is just how many players sport mode is attracting, its not the case that matching isn’t working, theres just not enough players in the pool.

This is SUPPOSED to be the reason that we have a SR and DR ranking system.

The SR system is to place racers together as far as the amount of contact incidents or mistakes a racer seems to make over the course of a race distance to place racers in races with the same skill level type of racers as far as remaining in control or racing "clean" with a like amount if any contact incidents or off road excursions over the course of a normal racing distance as per that racers recent past race history.

The DR system is supposed to rank racers together with racers of a similar pace or skills within a race as based off of their pace or speed in negotiating their way around a racing circuit.

If these systems actually did the job as they are designed to do then racers will be placed within lobbies of races with other racers of similar pace and skills and as a racer gets better or faster he will be then put in with faster and better racers AFTER he has the skills to race cleanly with those racers not before he has those skills.

The ranking systems currently fail in many cases to do the job they were supposed to accomplish and as a result any Sport Mode race lobby is like a game of russian roulette, you never know whether it is going to take you out or not each time you pull the trigger and enter a race.

This one for me is a lot more complicated, are we expecting the casual to have an understanding of racing that they are just not being educated for, is that the SR being at fault or can the game actually help itself. I believe it can it already has license tests and and a racing etiquette section but none of these actually help to educate racecraft.

As for the roulette I'm still waiting to experience it, what I can say is that if I have been involved in incidents I know that it was always within my control to avoid. Many I believe approach a race thinking I have to avoid causing the incidents, where as for me thats only half of it, you also have to think I have to avoid every incident happening behind me, potential or actually happening. I race in bumper and I find this task fairly simple and its been serving me well so far, but I know that a lot race in views without rear views and the radar is totally inadequate to react to shunts or anything happening behind.

 

[Silver_Wolf]

The matchmaking with 'similar' levelled drivers works pretty well in the afternoon and evening up till about 11 pm. Which is understandable.

My experiences generally it's the same throughout the day regardless of times in UK. Will be interested to see tonight but I am pretty
sure matching won't put me in a DR B lobby it will mostly be lower ranked players unless I get back to SR S.

Was planning to report on tonight's experiences anyway so I'll post that later.

 

[Solocapers]

My experiences generally it's the same throughout the day regardless of times in UK. Will be interested to see tonight but I am pretty
sure matching won't put me in a DR B lobby it will mostly be lower ranked players unless I get back to SR S.

Was planning to report on tonight's experiences anyway so I'll post that later.

Weird.. im living in Scotland too and ive barely had that problem any time after dinner time.. Unless its a track that's not very popular - see Bathurst

Are you high or very low B rank?

What safety rank are you?

 

[Silver_Wolf]

Weird.. im living in Scotland too and ive barely had that problem any time after dinner time.. Unless its a track that's not very popular - see Bathurst

Are you high or very low B rank?

What safety rank are you?

Current stats: darth_tails | 11677 / 73 (1116 races)

 

[Solocapers]

Current stats: darth_tails | 11677 / 73 (1116 races)

It looks like maybe because your flirting between B and C that you'll see a mix. You shouldn't generally see A drivers.. unless its outwith 'core hours'

See how it goes tonight.. I can imagine you'll see B and C rank drivers.. kinda makes sense given how close to the two levels you are.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

As for the roulette I'm still waiting to experience it, what I can say is that if I have been involved in incidents I know that it was always within my control to avoid. Many I believe approach a race thinking I have to avoid causing the incidents, where as for me thats only half of it, you also have to think I have to avoid every incident happening behind me, potential or actually happening. I race in bumper and I find this task fairly simple and its been serving me well so far, but I know that a lot race in views without rear views and the radar is totally inadequate to react to shunts or anything happening behind.

Although good racecraft is being aware of everything going on around you racing within a system that makes a racer drive in his rear view mirror to get off a preferred racing line to avoid being rammed and knocked off the track is not actually racing but giving way and allowing those that use contact to advance without consequence bully their way up the finishing positions.

Maybe you consider that good racing and racecraft but I consider that a broken system that rewards dive bombing and knocking opponents out of the way actually preventing many from enjoying a good clean competitive racing experience.

I think if you read the threads on this forum you will see many share this same viewpoint.

Dodging and needing to get out of the way of demolition style drivers and relinquishing positions to prevent being crashed out of the race is not racing as it should be in my opinion.

Penalties for knocking or pushing an opponent out of the way should go onto the racer that contacts a car behind the leading cars driver position as it is the OVERTAKING CARS RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE AN OVERTAKE CLEANLY WITHOUT CONTACT.

 

[rono_thomas]

Maybe you consider that good racing and racecraft but I consider that a broken system that rewards dive bombing and knocking opponents out of the way actually preventing many from enjoying a good clean competitive racing experience.

Not at all this is just online racing. It will never go away, but lets just compare GT6 quickmatch to GTS sport mode, it in my opinion is so much cleaner and respectful that labelling GTS SR rating as broken is extreme, yes it can be improved but not broken.

Penalties for knocking or pushing an opponent out of the way should go onto the racer that contacts a car behind the leading cars driver position as it is the OVERTAKING CARS RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE AN OVERTAKE CLEANLY WITHOUT CONTACT.

In an automated system this is just not possible to enforce, its unrealistic to expect it could be, racers would just learn to game the penalties onto those who are behind them, its a case of choosing the best system from the worst.

I think if you read the threads on this forum you will see many share this same viewpoint.

And yet I dont race staring into that rear view mirror, I race on instinct, and after checking others KP profiles I know I’m not alone, I’m not saying that bad things dont happen, Ive been divebombed, collected in turn 1 in every nurb race 3 last week, yet my SR didnt drop why is that?