Deep Forest Tunery [CLOSED]
- Thread starter budious
- 109 comments
- 73,246 views
- 267
- Perth, WA
- Bobtehblob
Yellow Bird Spec II Tune is beast man! Noticed you on the great ballast debate of 2011 and I'm no expert tuner, but in my books the car is now much easier to control 
- 1,139
- budious
Yellow Bird Spec II Tune is beast man! Noticed you on the great ballast debate of 2011 and I'm no expert tuner, but in my books the car is now much easier to control
Thanks, I like the balanced feel as well. I will probably put up a non-ballast adjusted variation later also, not because it would drive better, just that there are those RUF and Porsche purists who want that out of control, steering by the seam of your pants, driving feel.
Sorry, I can't give out all my secrets, but here's a hint, it comes stock with every car... just gotta know where to look.
- 15
- idvee8
Done some digging around, i take it it has something to do with the spring rates but i can't for the life of me calculate the correct rates. A lesson in math would be helpful. Also would ride height have any bearing on the ballast and spring rate, if so do you need to do the ballast last in the tuning. Also, last question, what about the effects of lightening the car. should this be done before finding out the ballast distribution.
- 1,139
- budious
Yes, Yes, Yes, No... depends on where you define first and last step... if it helps think of ballast as always being part of the car, Yes, and Yes... confirmations to statements and questions posed above, you're getting warmer so to speak... keep going. You will understand it a lot better when it all clicks than for me to explain it all now.
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- 15
- idvee8
I've got brain cripple, it's done my nut in and i can't get past finding out the original spring percentage. After that it all goes to pot. For me.....too many variables to calculate into a formula. What i have is this... calculate the percentage of the springs (stock) to find out the percentage of the weight distribution.....then add ballast to front/rear to even up the difference....but how far should it go front/rear i cant seem to get this into the formula.
Do you need to change the spring rates and will this change the weight distribution?
Am i completely on the wrong track?
Do you need to change the spring rates and will this change the weight distribution?
Am i completely on the wrong track?
- 15
- idvee8
i get the fisrt part of your equasion, its the last part i am having trouble with, forgive my ignorance.... where do you get the 0.60 from and why count 40 back from the front to get -10. really sorry but me is confused but great work and i am now confident with the ballast calculation and how much needs to go where on what type of car.
- 15
- idvee8
Any pointers fo LSD settings on an unmodified Zonda LM race car. I'm doing 1:04 1:05's on forest but with ABS on 5. Handles like a dream but can't get the same times with ABS off. I have noticed though that the ABS does not kick in much like on other high powered cars, or at least in my opinon/driving style.
- 1,139
- budious
I hate TCS personally and disable it all of the time, on occasion if I haven't really attempted to tune a car I might turn it on to 1, or for someone who wants to play GT5 who is new to gave, but I prefer it off and consider 1 as an occasional necessary evil.
LSD, try 5/5/5 for starters, then 5/6/5, 6/6/6, 6/7/6, and so forth until you find a combination that works without introducing spin. Then you can multiply that ratio for a stronger effect, so like if you find 6/7/6 works, then you can try 12/14/12 but it might not work quite the same you play around with it a bit and get 11/13/12, etc.
LSD, try 5/5/5 for starters, then 5/6/5, 6/6/6, 6/7/6, and so forth until you find a combination that works without introducing spin. Then you can multiply that ratio for a stronger effect, so like if you find 6/7/6 works, then you can try 12/14/12 but it might not work quite the same you play around with it a bit and get 11/13/12, etc.
- 15
- idvee8
usually everything is off apart from 1 on ABS but was fooling around with the settings when this suited the zonda but going to play with the lsd. Is the lsd acting like tcs if so will it not make any differance to lap times. sorry tuning is new to me. so foregive my ignorance. thanks for the help.
Is the RUF Nurburgring tune for online or do find the zero camber zero toe to be the best setup?
Also I know you sometimes tune for the time-trials. Any help with the Ginetta would be awesome. If you don't have one I have an extra one in my garage I could send if you would like.
Thanks in advance.
Also I know you sometimes tune for the time-trials. Any help with the Ginetta would be awesome. If you don't have one I have an extra one in my garage I could send if you would like.
Thanks in advance.
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- 1,139
- budious
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I have been working on fine tuning the car so I could actually complete the Formula Gran Turismo A-spec event. This tune is provided with multiple sub-configurations for dampers, stabilizers, and tires depending upon the track being raced. I will also continue to update the tune with further track specifics as they become available. If you find other tweaks that can be applied to this tune to account for a specific track, weather condition, or driving input device, then please feel welcome to leave feedback and I will evaluate your additions and contribute sub-tune credits where necessary.
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<snip>
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Purchases:
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+ GT Auto Engine Overhaul
+ GT Auto Chassis Maintenance
+ Chassis Reinforcement (a)
+ Race Medium Tires
+ Race Soft Tires
Core Setup:
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Aerodynamics @ 70 / 90
Power Limiter @ 900HP (for consistency; optional)
Limited Slip Differential
@ Initial: 19
@ Acceleration: 60
@ Braking: 13
Transmission @ 242 MPH
Fully Customizable Suspension (b)
@ Ride Height: 0 / 0
@ Spring Rate: 17.6 / 17.6
@ Extension: 8 / 8
@ Compression: 8 / 8
@ Anti-Roll Bars: 5 / 5
@ Camber: 1.8 / 1.0
@ Toe: 0.00 / 0.00
Brake Controller @ 5 / 5
Tires: Race Hard/Medium/Soft/Intermediate/Rain (c)
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Notes:
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(a) Tune(s) may work without Chassis Reinforcement installed but I have not verified it. Since it is a used race car purchase, the chassis maintenance service at GT Auto is also highly recommended.
Drivers often get the wrong impression about the chassis reinforcement upgrade and the changes in handling they experience afterwards. The resulting differences in handling are triggered by a change in the underlying suspension physics equation. When you strengthen the rigidity of the chassis you make it more resistant to torsion forces, this requires some softening of the suspension, but once these changes are made lap times generally decrease by 1-3% across most courses.
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(b) Also, updated to note you can adjust the stabilizers depending on the track. The courses with flatter cornering benefits from lower settings, 4 / 4 or 5 / 5, and the more technical courses can benefit from 6 / 6. Adjust to suite your taste, but I have included my preferences and results on some courses below. If you choose to use stabilizers 4 / 4 then you need to lower compression to 7. So the following should be the three recommended setups, with dampers 8 and stabilizers 5 being a good median for all courses. DS3 times without corner cuts and the only aid of ABS=1 accompany each setup as used.
Dry Setup A:
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@ Extension: 8 / 8
@ Compression: 7 / 7
@ Anti-Roll Bars: 4 / 4
- Cote D' Azur w/ Race Medium - 1:21"
- Fuji Speedway F w/ Race Hard - 1:17"
- Indy Road Course w/ Race Soft - 1:13"
- Monza (Dry) w/ Race Hard - 1:25"
Dry Setup B:
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@ Extension: 8 / 8
@ Compression: 8 / 8
@ Anti-Roll Bars: 5 / 5
- Cote D' Azur w/ Race Medium - 1:20"
- Suzuka Circuit (Dry) w/ Race Medium - 1:36"
- Tokyo R246 w/ Race Hard - 1:16"
Dry Setup C:
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@ Extension: 8 / 8
@ Compression: 8 / 8
@ Anti-Roll Bars: 6 / 6
- Cote D' Azur w/ Race Hard - 1:19"
- Nurburgring GP/F w/ Race Hard - 1:34"
- Tokyo R246 w/ Race Hard - 1:15"
Wet Setup: (f)
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@ Extension: 4 / 4
@ Compression: 4 / 4
@ Anti-Roll Bars: 2 / 2
@ Camber: 4.5 / 2.5
- Monza (Wet) w/ Race Intermediate (FR) & Race Medium (RR) - 1:36"
- Suzuka (Wet) w/ Race Intermediate (FR) & Race Medium (RR) - 1:56"
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(c) Choosing the right tires for each event is as important as choosing the right option from the suspension options above. Each tire has a distinguishing effect on the handling and often is the case that the Race Hard or Race Medium could post faster and more consistent lap times over those attempted with Race Soft equipped. Consider the available options a matrix of nine; three suspension damper and stabilizer pairings multiplied by three tire options, each with its own unique feel per course. I have attempted to identify the combinations of setups that best suite my driving style and have provided lap times in the section above.
The Race Soft tires can have detrimental effects on handling for some courses. There are two factors at play, extreme grip, and extreme heat generated by the grip. Some of the negative effects come from too much grip reducing turn radiuses until they are too tight and the car actually slows instead of making a fast sweeping turn through the corner as it should. The other factor also has to do with the grip and the resulting heat generated. The game's tire temperature modeling can overload the tire by generating heat through friction at a greater rate than it can be dissipated under some circumstances with Race Soft tires equipped to the extremely high powered and light weight cars featured in the game. These cars being so light and aggressive can overload the tire with constant friction, especially on highly technical courses; the hot Race Softs can not dissipate the heat fast enough and lose grip faster. As a result, I can typically run much more consistent lap times and achieve faster best lap times on Race Hards/Mediums over Race Softs in many instances with the Formula Gran Turismo; so if you are having problems with Race Softs on a particular course try switching down to Mediums or Hards. Zeroing out the toe helped also; I see some tunes adding more but I think the car runs best with none at all.
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(d) As mentioned by Adrenaline in a reply to this tune, some drivers, those highly skilled with DS3 or driving with a wheel may benefit from having their gearboxes set one or two settings of the top speed slider higher than my generic 242 MPH setup.
I could spend the time setting up the gearbox for every course, but there is always going to be differences in driver skill level that are too divergent with an extreme car to make a one suites all gearbox setup. I know my exit speed from the final corner on Fuji Speedway F is probably going to below average because I suck on it.
The benefits of a custom gearbox are probably going to be less than the average error or margin for time loss due to driver errors so I'm not going to get too specific with it. I like the 242 MPH as a generic setup, but just as that. You may benefit from having it one or two, perhaps three, auto top speed slider presets above the 242 MPH mark.
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(e) Further more, I do use DS3 so wheel users may set better times than the ones I have supplied with the same setups. Wheel users may also prefer a touch more oversteer so you can try adding .1 increments to the front camber until you are satisfied with handling. Wheel users may also like some minimal toe, especially on the slow corners like Indy Road Course; start with an setting like -0.10 F / -0.10 R and if there is too much oversteer with that, take the front down in .01 increments (ie. -0.09/+0.10). I don't know which settings work best for wheel users so if you try these tweaks and find some that work please leave feedback and I will give you a tuner assistance credit in post.
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(f) Suspension tweaks and setup for rain at Monza and Suzuka include softening the dampers, anti-roll bars, and increasing the camber. You still need to be a little gentler than usual on the throttle than with the dry conditions, especially around the south tip at Monza, and in the final chicanes at Suzuka. The tires will warm up and be a little more consistent after the first two laps. You can run the times I have indicated fairly easily if you don't push the car too hard and do them repeatedly.
Race Soft adds more grip to the rear, but in a long race, the tires may begin to overheat, Medium tends to fair better and is a good balance with the Race Intermediate tire equipped up front. The Race Intermediate tire tends to show the best use up front for cornering and braking on wet conditions. I did not find an opportunity during my testing that the Rain tire showed any advantage, it was a disadvantage in light to medium rain conditions, though if heavy rain conditions do appear you can try equipping one up front and switch to a Race Soft in the back.
If you are B-specing you need to babysit Bob because he'll want to switch to those darn Intermediate and Rain tires on the rear of the car every lap. I figure you already know where the pit indicator light is and how to tell him to cancel his pit stop.
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- 52
- Hixson, Tennessee
- dapperdan56
^ I've seen many settings for this car and was very happy to see you had a tune for this car. I am using yours to get through this event.
Question? Just ran Monza in the rain. I ran Race Softs and won. I tried Rain Tires and couldn't stay on the road. Plus the AI drivers left me behind. Shouldn't Rain Tires give more grip than Softs in the rain. I mean isn't that what there made for?
Question? Just ran Monza in the rain. I ran Race Softs and won. I tried Rain Tires and couldn't stay on the road. Plus the AI drivers left me behind. Shouldn't Rain Tires give more grip than Softs in the rain. I mean isn't that what there made for?
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- 1,139
- budious
This is very dependent on a number of factors, not all of which I'm entirely sure of yet. The rain itself occurs in varying degrees of intensity and very light rain with little surface accumulation (splatter under tires) the Race Softs tend to work okay. Generally I find leaving the rear drive wheels as Race Soft yields the best acceleration grip unless the rain is at its strongest and there is a noticeable wake behind your car if you drive in the third person view. However, swapping the front to Intermediate or Rain depending on those conditions can shorten braking distances and improve cornering.
- 52
- Hixson, Tennessee
- dapperdan56
- 1,139
- budious
I will also look into a rain specific suspension setup in addition to the tire choices. I tried fiddling with the LSD but it didn't help the situation any. I think all comes down to getting all four wheels in even contact with the wet surface, having enough weight or downforce to cut through the water, and perhaps increasing camber will assist as well. I am still testing the various dry configurations on different tracks to build my preferred setups list for those but I'll look into this more when I have the chance.
- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
Is it just me, or is it extremely close to the stock suspension?
I failed Fuji and gave up. (You should mention 242mph is NOT high enough for Fuji)
Was failing Indy Road Course, 21 seconds down as I started the 11th lap.
But, once I got passed the learning curve, I ran my 2 best laps of 1:09.578, 1:09.900 and I'm now 4 seconds ahead as I just started the 17th lap. These Racing Softs are a handful and I think you're right, they just heat up and lose grip sooooooooo fast.
I failed Fuji and gave up. (You should mention 242mph is NOT high enough for Fuji)
Was failing Indy Road Course, 21 seconds down as I started the 11th lap.
But, once I got passed the learning curve, I ran my 2 best laps of 1:09.578, 1:09.900 and I'm now 4 seconds ahead as I just started the 17th lap. These Racing Softs are a handful and I think you're right, they just heat up and lose grip sooooooooo fast.
- 1,139
- budious
You're right, it is extremely close to the stock suspension. In fact, look at all the formula like cars and they use basically the same default tune, so much for lifelike tuning right? Very minor changes can have big impacts though. I found the 242 MPH just to be a good median between acceleration and top end speed, not necessarily the optimal gearbox for every course. I could tune an individual gearbox for each course; but with this car, I think the average time loss due to driver errors probably outweigh the benefits from a custom gearbox.
- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
Feels like the car really struggles to make tight turns, mostly in the center, it just can't rotate. Indy Road Course through the esses really makes this noticeable.
- 1,139
- budious
Probably because I tuned the car to understeer a bit for myself as usual. I would like to get some more feedback from you on how to optimize it best for wheel users. I think the best places to begin is with the front camber to trim the oversteer back to your taste. Try bumping front camber back up, test at 1.9/2.0/2.1 or higher if need be and give me some feedback. If that still feels a bit restrictive for you, try adjusting the LSD braking sensitivity down from 13 to 12/11/10 respectively, or it could also be LSD initial torque, try moving it away from 19 to 18/17/16 or further down respectively. The LSD braking sensitivity is probably most likely to make the car unstable when hard braking into corners so try changing it last.
Test only one change at a time though, then reset to my tune, and test other variables; then if you find two positive changes, test them together and see how it works. So, if bumping camber up to 1.9 and lowering initial to 17 works for you, etc.; I will credit you with some tune assistance as I have already have with my gearbox footnote.
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- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
I might be able to try some of that, at a track I'm comfortable with, and will be able to feel the differences. For now I re-started the series with Jordays tune and I seem to be doing much better thus far. I'll come back to your tune and take it to a track like... hmmm Grand Valley Speedway, is probably good. Then I'll be able to help you out.
- 1,139
- budious
If you were trying the Race Softs on Fuji it was just a nightmare for me. I was by far much more consistent on Race Hard, actually so far, I only found Race Soft beneficial on Indy Road Course.
I'll see what I can do about Indy because while I found it drivable there could be some improvement. For high speed cornering I don't really like toe on the car, but for this slow speed tight radius stuff like Indy Road Course, adding some on as a course specific solution may help a bit.
I'll see what I can do about Indy because while I found it drivable there could be some improvement. For high speed cornering I don't really like toe on the car, but for this slow speed tight radius stuff like Indy Road Course, adding some on as a course specific solution may help a bit.
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