Deep Thoughts

[Rallywagon]

It's the circle of life!

 

[Danoff]

 

[Pupik]

Ever get the idea we're doing a whole lot of free beta testing for artificial intelligence to take over?

They ought to suffer and sweat from their own mistakes, just as we have for the past four million years.

Happy Friday!

 

[Rallywagon]

Ever get the idea we're doing a whole lot of free beta testing for artificial intelligence to take over?

They ought to suffer and sweat from their own mistakes, just as we have for the past four million years.

Happy Friday!

Maybe, but, to be fair, before they get to be overlords, they are going to be cooking, cleaning and doing all sorts of unsavory things for us first.

 

[W3H5]

Maybe, but, to be fair, before they get to be overlords, they are going to be cooking, cleaning and doing all sorts of unsavory things for us first.

So essentially it’s just another revolution of the social cycle in which the upper classes (humans) are usurped by the class below (AI). Digital Marxism?

 

[Rallywagon]

If it goes so far, it will probably be more like digital Khanism only without the horse....

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

@Danoff, is this the existential crisis you go through when trying to decide on first or second gear in slow-moving traffic?

Would that be like Schrodinger's gear shift?

 

[TexRex]

Would that be like Schrodinger's gear shift?

I thought that only applies to CVTs, with them always being both in gear and not.

...

You wake up from a coma and a specialist says to you, "I've got good news and bad news. We managed to stop the brain hemorrhage, but now whenever there is any music to be heard (TV, movies, department stores, elevators, carousels, etc.), you will always hear the same thing of your choosing."

Terribly unlikely scenario, I know, but what process do you use to determine what that is? Do you pick something that you like enough that you won't tire of quickly? Something with substantial swings so that it might be better suited to more situations? A piece that's simply really long? Some other method?

Not looking for specific pieces, but a method for making such a decision.

 

[Danoff]

You wake up from a coma and a specialist says to you, "I've got good news and bad news. We managed to stop the brain hemorrhage, but now whenever there is any music to be heard (TV, movies, department stores, elevators, carousels, etc.), you will always hear the same thing of your choosing."

Terribly unlikely scenario, I know, but what process do you use to determine what that is? Do you pick something that you like enough that you won't tire of quickly? Something with substantial swings so that it might be better suited to more situations? A piece that's simply really long? Some other method?

Not looking for specific pieces, but a method for making such a decision.

I think I might pick something classical, with lots of movements to cover various moods, but which is also generally acceptable in most settings. Something long. Chopin's Romance Larghetto is not exactly what I'd pick but is not a terrible option.

I was also thinking of maybe some long trance-like songs like from Solar Fields (eg: Feelings). That would go well in most settings, but you could invest if you wanted to.

If Dark Side (entire album) counts as a single song that would be another good candidate.

 

[TexRex]

If Dark Side (entire album) counts as a single song that would be another good candidate.

That would be too easy, but I like where your head is at. "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" may be permissible despite being bifurcated as it appears on the album; thematically it's still very much the same work and is indicated as consisting of parts.

Classical seems like the obvious way to go, but I'm not familiar enough with it for it to be of any use. The closest I get is Gershwin, but even then I stick to the side more influenced by jazz.

 

[W3H5]

I’ve been thinking about this for a while. Shine On You Crazy Diamond is brilliant but even a song of that length would seem short if you had to listen to it over and over. I’d perhaps pick The Planets by Gustav Holst as the full suite would make for plenty of variation and it’s length would be suitable.

Wrong thread for unpopular opinions, I know, but Wish You Were Her is a better album than Dark Side of the Moon, if only for the underlying themes of the music.

 

[Danoff]

I know, but Wish You Were Her is a better album than Dark Side of the Moon, if only for the underlying themes of the music.

I don't agree but regardless, I'm not going for best here. I'm going for what I could tune out and/or tune in to.

 

[TexRex]

Shine On You Crazy Diamond is brilliant but even a song of that length would seem short if you had to listen to it over and over.

I agree completely.

I should clarify that it wasn't suggested for its length. It wasn't a suggestion at all. I only brought it up because it appears on the album as more than a singular entity but may be permissible for this exercise because it's singular in spirit.

I think you could do orders of magnitude better with "Echoes" or "Atom Heart Mother Suite", not only for their length but their thematic complexity.

 

[kolio]

I thought that only applies to CVTs, with them always being both in gear and not.

...

You wake up from a coma and a specialist says to you, "I've got good news and bad news. We managed to stop the brain hemorrhage, but now whenever there is any music to be heard (TV, movies, department stores, elevators, carousels, etc.), you will always hear the same thing of your choosing."

Terribly unlikely scenario, I know, but what process do you use to determine what that is? Do you pick something that you like enough that you won't tire of quickly? Something with substantial swings so that it might be better suited to more situations? A piece that's simply really long? Some other method?

Not looking for specific pieces, but a method for making such a decision.

This is an easy one for me.

The song would likely drive me to insanity, but I often listen to it twice when walking/running around the neighborhood. Sometimes doing chores around the house.

Tangerine Dream by Love on a Real Train.

 

[TexRex]

This is an easy one for me.

The song would likely drive me to insanity, but I often listen to it twice when walking/running around the neighborhood. Sometimes doing chores around the house.

Tangerine Dream by Love on a Real Train.

Okay, but how did you go about picking that? Because that's what this is about, more than specific pieces.



Also, if that's the track I think it is, you've got the artist and track name switched.

 

[kolio]

Okay, but how did you go about picking that? Because that's what this is about, more than specific pieces.



Also, if that's the track I think it is, you've got the artist and track name switched.

I think you have a different song in mind. EDIT: I think you're right... I think I do have it wrong

Oh yeah. I had just woke up from a nap and when I was typing that, I actually said to myself "I'm not going into the reasons because that would he mindless rambling" LOL. I totally knew that was the point from previously being in this thread but I forgot...


Reason...

The song has a very melodic base that I like. But then it builds. And builds. And builds. It has a slow way of amping me up. It's like continued motivation.

But that's not the only emotion the song gives me. I can listen to this song with a melancholy feeling.

Any emotion. I can't really explain why.

I could listen to this song on my deathbed and it would feel just right.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I believe that aliens do exist but they probably aren't aware of us, and we aren't aware of them. I have this idea that there's an advanced society like ours living in other part of the universe... Who are also asking the same question about whether or not other advanced societies exist.

 

[Rallywagon]

Also, if that's the track I think it is, you've got the artist and track name switched.

Can confirm

Okay, but how did you go about picking that? Because that's what this is about, more than specific pieces.

For me, I don't think length is very important. Rather, I'd have it be a song I can sing endlessly and still enjoy. One that makes me tingle when I really listen to it, but also one that I can sing boisterously too, and also just be ignored in the background.
Donegal Danny sung by Ronnie Drew
Stealing Happy Hours by 311
Cripple Creek by The Band
Any number of pink floyd songs for sure.

 

[Rallywagon]

I believe that aliens do exist but they probably aren't aware of us, and we aren't aware of them. I have this idea that there's an advanced society like ours living in other part of the universe... Who are also asking the same question about whether or not other advanced societies exist.

I believe it's also possible that they dont know we exist because they are so deeply involved in their own simulated worlds that they have very very little contact with anything outside of that.

 

[Danoff]

3-4 minutes for a song is just not nearly enough. My attention span is nowhere near that short. This was a phenomenon created by radio, to keep you tuned in past songs you didn't particularly care for, and I really don't like that it exists now. It seems like lots of music is that length at this point because we're just used to it, but how lazy is it that musicians can get away with making a hit song that lasts 3 minutes? That's like writing a best selling novel that lasts 15 pages. I want more product!

 

[TexRex]

Sounds like someone needs more prog in his life.

"Humanizzimo" by Roine Stolt

 

[Touring Mars]

Wish You Were Her

Now there's a Freudian slip if ever I saw one

 

[Rallywagon]

3-4 minutes for a song is just not nearly enough. My attention span is nowhere near that short. This was a phenomenon created by radio, to keep you tuned in past songs you didn't particularly care for, and I really don't like that it exists now. It seems like lots of music is that length at this point because we're just used to it, but how lazy is it that musicians can get away with making a hit song that lasts 3 minutes? That's like writing a best selling novel that lasts 15 pages. I want more product!

Sounds like someone needs more prog in his life.

"Humanizzimo" by Roine Stolt

Or maybe some Moe.?
I dont fully share the opinion. While I certainly do enjoy listening to long songs. I think shorter songs are just fine, and dont think it a phenomena caused by the radio. Probably the attention span though. Folk songs across the generations long before radio was even thought of follow, and likely created, the format used so frequently today. Many religious hymns as well.

 

[Danoff]

Yea, yea, I know there's plenty of long-form stuff out there. But we're still inundated with the 3-4 min format.

 

[TexRex]

Or maybe some Moe.?

That's not really the same thing. It may be a track of considerable length, but it isn't a long-form composition; rather it's two shorter compositions on opposite ends of a whole lot of nothing.

 

[Rallywagon]

My bad. I thought that was all one song. Moe. is known for having very long instrumental sections to their songs, especially live. There is a song on one of the warts and all albums that has a 15 minute intro.
I guess something like this would have been a better choice, or maybe I shouldn't have assumed that was a full live version of Opium rather than the song and a looooong gap until the next song kicked in.

Yea, yea, I know there's plenty of long-form stuff out there. But we're still inundated with the 3-4 min format.

Sorry to say man, but... that's radio for you. Gotta maximize profits, get those adverts out there, play the top hits for the vapid masses.

 

[TexRex]

My bad. I thought that was all one song. Moe. is known for having very long instrumental sections to their songs, especially live. There is a song on one of the warts and all albums that has a 15 minute intro.
I guess something like this would have been a better choice, or maybe I shouldn't have assumed that was a full live version of Opium rather than the song and a looooong gap until the next song kicked in.

No biggie. Just pointing it out. But as @Danoff said, it's not really about there being or not being long-form compositions, rather that the mainstream still plays it safe.

It gets more interesting the more I think about it. You can cite different reasons at different times.

Initially, the form was dictated largely by technology, with 10" and 12" single records only allowing for recordings of certain durations before a sharp drop in sound quality occurs as a result of the material's physical properties.

Certainly short attention span of youth comes into play with traditional radio because listeners may be compelled to twist the knob if they tire of what's being played and can't be sure something new will play in just a couple of minutes.

Now you've got access to so much requiring so little effort, so you'd think attention span would be more important than ever. But consider that whether it be a streaming service or individual track sale, the sale has already been made and track length shouldn't enter into it at all.

Track length also doesn't dictate costs to a meaningful degree, at least not with the additional couple of minutes for which I suspect @Danoff longs. Yes, time is money, but the overwhelming majority of fees are incurred on the front end with acquisition of services and facilities (with preset minimums) and on the back with marketing; the production services associated with an additional 40% of material is nothing in comparison.

 

[Pupik]

Yea, yea, I know there's plenty of long-form stuff out there. But we're still inundated with the 3-4 min format.

In defense of singles, the average listener probably would get bored by an even longer repetition of: catchy beat, lyrics, refrain, lyrics, catchy beat, refrain, lyrics, refrain, la-la-oh...let's have that refrain again. And to a radio station, they want to have some "variety" so as not to completely turn off a listener from "touching that dial" or "did not synergize with the target demographic / ran out of promotional T-shirts / the morning show didn't include a drunken caller that slammed his testicles in the car door last night" which can be disastrous to the bottom line of a failing industry.

It's funny how sometimes an odd album will have some ridiculous sub-two-minute jangle that's actually kind of memorable. Sometimes less is more...unless it's just the annoying track you skip.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I think 5-7 minutes is a good length, though I enjoy a wide variety of *ahem* lengths. Nirvana's Lounge Act track is very short, but it's good for a quickie. Sometimes on these short songs they skip the intro and head straight for the meat and potatoes. The downside with that is if the album is filled with these songs, the total length can be 32-40 minutes.

On Tool's new album, if you don't consider the interludes, the shortest song is 10 minutes and 5 seconds. This allows them to spend 2+ minutes on the intro, and to properly develop each part of the song.

 

[W3H5]

I find my optimum listening span to be about an hour or a bit over. This allows me to enjoy most albums start to finish, although I make some exceptions for longer playing live sets if it’s really one of my favourite.

I guess I get about 3-4 hours of listening time each week. That’s time spent just enjoying music while relaxing on the sofa. I wouldn’t include the music I listen to during commuting, work hours or driving as then I’m not just specifically listening to music, it’s a soundtrack to something else, if you like.

I love getting home from work and listening to a whole album before I even get changed or decide on dinner. Especially fond of Audioslave by Audioslave, Above by Mad Season and Stone Sour by Stone Sour the past months. I also seem to have a thing for first albums, like Pearl Jam’s Ten being my favourite of theirs and Facelift almost being my favourite Alice in Chains record (although I could never pick a favourite of the Layne Stayley era albums).

aaaaand that was completely off topic....