Development on the Next Forza Motorsport Game Enters Second Sprint

[SimTourist]

Call of Duty and AC have both released new games every year, with the exception of AC's one year gap after Syndicate, because sales of that game tanked due to the residual effects from the negative reception of Unity. So they took an extra year, made AC Origins, and then put out Odyssey a year later. Call of Duty has a three year dev cycle, because they have three studios cranking out those games now, after Infinity War got shredded by losing a huge chunk of their staff to Respawn.

AC also has games worked on by different studios, Odyssey wasn't made by the same team as Origins, add to that they have 1000+ workers on each game. That kinda schedule/manpower isn't justified for a game that sell a couple million or less.

Turn 10 probably already have high fidelity scans, or even some finished models, of most of their cars. That'll still likely require another pass over those assets to increase level of detail, but it's not beginning from scratch. They also aren't going to need to go out and re-scan track data

That's a pretty big assumption, PD said the same thing for GT5, but guess what, PBR showed up and made all those assets worthless and obsolete, you never know. A lot of the cars in the FM7 are incorrect and also fairly low poly compared to say GTS. Tracks will need updates, Nurburgring was completely repaved this year for example, so again the current asset is obsolete.

The first game in a new generation of a series like this, is always more threadbare unless you take extra time, because you do have to rebuild some assets. I suspect that is why they are choosing now to take extra time for Forza 8, coinciding with a new console generation - to make sure they don't have a repeat of FM5. But even then - FM5 was made in a TWO year cycle. Turn 10 can create a lot in a three or four year cycle.

I simply don't want them to rush it, there are too many outstanding issues with the forza engine, many areas haven't been touched or updated in years, the lighting and PBR pipeline need a complete reworking, the physics model needs major updates, the AI is a complete **** show, damage is poor, track modelling is poor, car models are poor, the game structure itself needs to be rethought, multiplayer needs tons of work. These are all things that Turn10 has ignored for more than a decade, now it's the right time to start fresh, MS has filled out their 1st party studios, and nextbox will be backwards compatible with current forzas, so compared to Xone launch there is no immediate urge to push out another safe uninspired forza.

 

[FoRiZon]

In the end, the release of Forza Motorsport 8 will depend on when the XBox next console, Project Scarlett, will launch.

It'll most likely be a launch title just like FM5.

 

[ShakesMcQueen]

AC also has games worked on by different studios, Odyssey wasn't made by the same team as Origins, add to that they have 1000+ workers on each game. That kinda schedule/manpower isn't justified for a game that sell a couple million or less.

All that means is that the AC games aren't really a relevant point of comparison, precisely BECAUSE their process is a strange one where it seems like every game is touched by no less than about ten thousand hands, all sharing not only technology, but core design philosophies.

That's a pretty big assumption, PD said the same thing for GT5, but guess what, PBR showed up and made all those assets worthless and obsolete, you never know. A lot of the cars in the FM7 are incorrect and also fairly low poly compared to say GTS. Tracks will need updates, Nurburgring was completely repaved this year for example, so again the current asset is obsolete.

It's not an assumption - I believe Turn 10 themselves said at one point, that they essentially had high fidelity scans to "future proof" this stuff, so they didn't have to go out and re-scan all of these cars that are a pain in the neck to get in a room with to begin with. As for the rest - yes, I openly acknowledged that certain assets will need to be rebuilt. Tracks are one such thing - and yes, they would need to re-scan the parts of the Nurburgring that have changed since last time. That doesn't mean all of the data they have is obsolete.

I simply don't want them to rush it, there are too many outstanding issues with the forza engine, many areas haven't been touched or updated in years, the lighting and PBR pipeline need a complete reworking, the physics model needs major updates, the AI is a complete **** show, damage is poor, track modelling is poor, car models are poor, the game structure itself needs to be rethought, multiplayer needs tons of work. These are all things that Turn10 has ignored for more than a decade, now it's the right time to start fresh, MS has filled out their 1st party studios, and nextbox will be backwards compatible with current forzas, so compared to Xone launch there is no immediate urge to push out another safe uninspired forza.

Certain car models are better than others (in particular, newer ones). The core physics model can certainly use some refinement, but it's largely fine. The AI is indeed terrible. Physical damage exists, which is more than you can say for Gran Turismo. Multiplayer does indeed need a rework and it appears they've shown some of their hand early on that front with the last several months in FM7, with the implementation of FRR, which will presumably be expanded and refined in the next game. The rest of what you said I either half-agree with, or is wild hyperbole.

When you launch with over three times the cars GT Sport had at launch, and way more tracks, on a more compressed dev cycle to boot, then concessions are unavoidably made.

I agree there's no rush for FM8, and a 2021 release (which is what I personally expect) wouldn't be rushing it. That would be double their usual dev cycle. It would also have the knock-on effect of giving Playground more time at the drawing board with their next Horizon game. And they will presumably be collaborating with Playground on updating the core tech underlying the series, to make sure they both have what they need for next generation.

 

[Flashfire926]

Forza 8 isnt coming next year, wont be a launch title.

C'mon, they were until concept stage until just now, and even they just said the development is in infancy. 2021 at the earliest.

edit: Unlike Xbox One or the X, Halo is the big launch title this time around to push the console.

 

[ShakesMcQueen]

Forza 8 isnt coming next year, wont be a launch title.

C'mon, they were until concept stage until just now, and even they just said the development is in infancy. 2021 at the earliest.

edit: Unlike Xbox One or the X, Halo is the big launch title this time around to push the console.

You can have more than one first-party title in the launch window (not just launch DAY). In fact, I actually think they will - I just don't think it'll be Forza. Microsoft want to come out of the gate with overwhelming force next generation, which is why they've got their heaviest hitter as the tip of the spear with Halo - a game with a rumoured total budget of half a billion dollars (which is completely nuts if true).

Microsoft have a conspicuously clean slate for 2020 releases right now beyond Halo, and have confirmed that they have several unannounced games in development.

 

[SimTourist]

You can have more than one first-party title in the launch window (not just launch DAY). In fact, I actually think they will - I just don't think it'll be Forza. Microsoft want to come out of the gate with overwhelming force next generation, which is why they've got their heaviest hitter as the tip of the spear with Halo - a game with a rumoured total budget of half a billion dollars (which is completely nuts if true).

Microsoft have a conspicuously clean slate for 2020 releases right now beyond Halo, and have confirmed that they have several unannounced games in development.

Everything will be playable on PC/XOne though.

 

[ShakesMcQueen]

Everything will be playable on PC/XOne though.

Halo will be, yes. Everything else we don't know yet. I expect the usual early period of some "cross-gen" releases while the next-gen consoles build up an install base, followed by an eventual transition to PC/Scarlett only.

 

[R55NA]

After playing GT Sport online, Forza M is a complete mess. If they bring back Homologation I will not buy another FM game again, and just stick to Horizon.

 

[d25bev]

It'll be Fall 2020. If people paid attention, they literally said they'd had a large team already working on it over a year ago. Since then they've only been adding more people over from FM7 & also hiring more people to work on it, speeding up the development. Unlike GTS, Forza use a 3rd party company to do all the cars & they get completed fairly quickly. Turn 10 will have either been building a new engine or improving the current one & developing the tracks which is relatively easy considering they have so many tracks all ready mapped by another 3rd party.

If they were to create every single new asset from scratch; cars, tracks, tree's, sounds, particles etc. I'd say 2021. But they won't, certainly not all of them, so it'll be 2020.

 

[Flashfire926]

It'll be Fall 2020. If people paid attention, they literally said they'd had a large team already working on it over a year ago. Since then they've only been adding more people over from FM7 & also hiring more people to work on it, speeding up the development. Unlike GTS, Forza use a 3rd party company to do all the cars & they get completed fairly quickly. Turn 10 will have either been building a new engine or improving the current one & developing the tracks which is relatively easy considering they have so many tracks all ready mapped by another 3rd party.

If they were to create every single new asset from scratch; cars, tracks, tree's, sounds, particles etc. I'd say 2021. But they won't, certainly not all of them, so it'll be 2020.

That;s not true. Last year all of Turn 10 was on F7.

 

[Northstar]

That;s not true. Last year all of Turn 10 was on F7.

It's pretty obvious that the things they've added to FM7 in that period are things intended for FM8 (with the exception of the new UI and correcting some of the stupid decisions they made). So while they may not have been officially working on it, they were still in the initial stages of developing it.

 

[Flashfire926]

It's pretty obvious that the things they've added to FM7 in that period are things intended for FM8 (with the exception of the new UI and correcting some of the stupid decisions they made). So while they may not have been officially working on it, they were still in the initial stages of developing it.

I agree that a lot of these developments were made for Forza 8 in mind, of course. There's no doubt about it.

However it probably wasn't some "Large Team" like the poster I quoted said. They only started shifting majority of the studio over from this March. Coupled with their comments that the game is still in infancy, I just don't see how we can be just a year away from release.

 

[Bogie 19th]

After playing GT Sport online, Forza M is a complete mess. If they bring back Homologation I will not buy another FM game again, and just stick to Horizon.

GT Sport is just "less" of a complete mess online.

 

[WFO Krypto]

After playing GT Sport online, Forza M is a complete mess. If they bring back Homologation I will not buy another FM game again, and just stick to Horizon.

That's interesting. As an avid racer in FM7 (6-8 hours a day) I feel that the best racing was when the cars all had to be Homologated. It challenged how you built your cars, it challenged how you tuned your cars, it challenged you to try different things within the confinements of Homologation to get an advantage.

I personally think they should open a full set of Homologated Lobbies for each class.

 

[Jezza819]

That's interesting. As an avid racer in FM7 (6-8 hours a day) I feel that the best racing was when the cars all had to be Homologated. It challenged how you built your cars, it challenged how you tuned your cars, it challenged you to try different things within the confinements of Homologation to get an advantage.

I personally think they should open a full set of Homologated Lobbies for each class.

I've only had the game roughly 6 months or so and the homologation thing so far has been ok. I don't do any tuning because I don't have the patience for it so every race I run is with stock homologated cars. I also don't race online so everything is in single player and for the most part the divisions I've ran seem pretty balanced.

Like I said in a post a few days ago, I just wish if they're not going to allow same divisions to be used in bucket races, at least allow the homologated performance index number to remain the same as in non bucket races so you can better try to balance an inconsistency.

 

[Northstar]

I'm fine with the idea behind homologation and would be fine with it's continuing presence under 2 conditions. 1) Make the performance requirements optional for single player and private lobbies, and 2) put cars in their proper divisions. In FM7 there's a few divisions, like Forza GT and GT Racing Reborn that just have too many cars that don't really fit in and it breaks the immersion (Than there's the no-mans land that is "Forza Specials").

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Honestly, I'm not sure if homologation is even necessary in Forza Motorsport. Not that I don't like homologation as a concept, but I just think that letting the PI classes do its job is more elegant solution than endlessly fracturing 800-something car list for divisions and homologation rules.

 

[R55NA]

That's interesting. As an avid racer in FM7 (6-8 hours a day) I feel that the best racing was when the cars all had to be Homologated. It challenged how you built your cars, it challenged how you tuned your cars, it challenged you to try different things within the confinements of Homologation to get an advantage.

I personally think they should open a full set of Homologated Lobbies for each class.

I don't deny there to be close interesting racing, but the fact you could put any vehicle in any class (within reason) and race against them was the appeal of Forza Motorsport. If I wanted class based racing, I would buy literally any other racing game.

Homologation ruined downloading Tunes too, I havent the time or patience to make a tune for every car, so when you went to download the "best" tunes for a car, it was always based off a Homologation, rather than top of A, B Class for example.

 

[nyrmetros]

I would love for the next game to allow you to build an expand your garage and mechanics based on credits earned...... Sort of like building your towns and homesteads in Assassin's Creed.

 

[WFO Krypto]

I would love for the next game to allow you to build an expand your garage and mechanics based on credits earned...... Sort of like building your towns and homesteads in Assassin's Creed.

Go play Horizon then. SMH

 

[WFO Krypto]

I don't deny there to be close interesting racing, but the fact you could put any vehicle in any class (within reason) and race against them was the appeal of Forza Motorsport. If I wanted class based racing, I would buy literally any other racing game.

Homologation ruined downloading Tunes too, I havent the time or patience to make a tune for every car, so when you went to download the "best" tunes for a car, it was always based off a Homologation, rather than top of A, B Class for example.

I don't think Homologation ruined downloading tunes. You can look at the tunes that come up based on the class you search for, and understand for the most part by the PI if it's Homologated or not. I personally put the word "Homo" in the name of the tunes I share so that people will know it's Homologated.

If anything in 8, they should have a search option just for Homologated tunes.

I do not have any experience in how the Homologation affects anything higher than "A" class. I don't race anything higher than that. Just too many "knot heads" with faster cars. I can barely stand to race "A" class the very little that I do.

One thing that I do think would be good for 8, would be if you had to pay to repair your car after wrecking it. That would deter some of the wrecking, or at least at some point run them out of credits to race. Clean laps and starting up front is of no care to the guys that are just in there to wreck people.

 

[ImaRobot]

Go play Horizon then. SMH

No idea what that has to do with Horizon or shaking heads.

 

[Northstar]

Go play Horizon then. SMH

I don't think you really understood what he was getting at.

Upgrading your shop facilites with better equipment, staff and technology is pretty common in series/discipline-focused games so it wouldn't really be out of place in a Forza Motorsport title. Granted it really hasn't been tried with a sandbox style career mode, but if done right it could be fantastic.

 

[WFO Krypto]

I don't think you really understood what he was getting at.

Upgrading your shop facilites with better equipment, staff and technology is pretty common in series/discipline-focused games so it wouldn't really be out of place in a Forza Motorsport title. Granted it really hasn't been tried with a sandbox style career mode, but if done right it could be fantastic.

This sounds more like a career/arcade game than a simulator. If this is added to anything, it should be added to Horizon and keep this "gamey" extra non-value added feature from cluttering up the simulator.

 

[McLaren]

Ah yes, bc to be a simulator, it must focus completely on the physics and on-track gameplay. Absolutely no room for any other features that could broaden gameplay elsewhere.

 

[Northstar]

This sounds more like a career/arcade game than a simulator. If this is added to anything, it should be added to Horizon and keep this "gamey" extra non-value added feature from cluttering up the simulator.

So simulating the off track aspects of running a racing team is now "gamey"?

 

[WFO Krypto]

So simulating the off track aspects of running a racing team is now "gamey"?

By all means, if that is your thing then hey, enjoy. Just sounds more suitable for Horizon.

What is this "shop" going to do? How would you make it do more things for you? Do you want the game to build and tune your cars for you? I just don't see what this would add to Motorsports? Please elaborate on what you feel the purpose / intent / value this would add to Motorsports.

 

[ImaRobot]

This sounds more like a career/arcade game than a simulator. If this is added to anything, it should be added to Horizon and keep this "gamey" extra non-value added feature from cluttering up the simulator.

What is a Career game?

What is gamey about it? What is gamey? What isn't gamey?

Just sounds more suitable for Horizon.

Why?

What is this "shop" going to do? How would you make it do more things for you?

Most likely nothing, just like most customization aspects that don't surround cars. It's a nice aesthetic, and can play well into the game as if you start with a small basic garage as if you were a DIY racer that hits the usual track day, all the way up into a full fledged team with a full garage, work space, technology, staffing, and maybe even an R&D department. Hell, throw in a dyno too, as I wouldn't mind some more authenticity when it comes to tuning.

Do you want the game to build and tune your cars for you?

Are you just throwing out dumb things in order to downplay someones opinion? Why are you going for such a stretch here?

I just don't see what this would add to Motorsports?

Authenticity. Personalization. Reality simulating. The last one is a main point you keep trying to drive, so it makes little sense as to why you'd only want to simulate driving, but nothing else.

Please elaborate on what you feel the purpose / intent / value this would add to Motorsports.

Please elaborate on what exactly is the issue?

 

[Jezza819]

I'm more of a just hop in something and race kind of player. I think the last game I played and used any kind of career mode had to be an old F1 game from about 10 to 15 years ago.

As long as it's something that I'm not required to do in order to either get cars, tracks, etc., if it's there then I don't think it would bother me. It definitely wouldn't interest me but I don't think it would bother me. That is IF we're not having to sacrifice say 30% or so of car and track selection in order to make room for this environment thing. As long as it can kind of be tacked on in addition to what we had with FM7.

I just don't have the patience for any kind of career or building, testing stuff.

 

[WFO Krypto]

I'm more of a just hop in something and race kind of player. I think the last game I played and used any kind of career mode had to be an old F1 game from about 10 to 15 years ago.

As long as it's something that I'm not required to do in order to either get cars, tracks, etc., if it's there then I don't think it would bother me. It definitely wouldn't interest me but I don't think it would bother me. That is IF we're not having to sacrifice say 30% or so of car and track selection in order to make room for this environment thing. As long as it can kind of be tacked on in addition to what we had with FM7.

I just don't have the patience for any kind of career or building, testing stuff.

I agree with you. If it's not something I have to do, or it takes away from what I enjoy about the game, then I really don't care.

The drivatar and suites thing in 7 is just a waste of time, that could have been used to work more on eliminating glitches before the game came out.