Did Kerry just swing an election ?
- Thread starter ledhed
- 83 comments
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- AndrewPaul
I think that it was just a little barb at Bush that's getting way too politicized. There's no way he meant to say that soldiers are uneducated. He's a friggen' vet himself. Even if he DID think this, he's also a politician, and there's no way he'd ever say it in public. Those other quotes posted here are waay different than "soldiers are stupid".
- 26,628
- OREGON
- a6m5zero
I can't believe some people still buy Kerry's explanation after seeing the video. First, he actually says it. Then the crowd busts out laughing, Kerry doesn't correct himself, "Oh, I meant 'get us stuck in Iraq!' hahahaha".
If anybody hasn't seen the video, my CNN link in prior post has it.
If anybody hasn't seen the video, my CNN link in prior post has it.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
I can give him the benefit of the doubt and agree that it was meant to be a barb at Bush. Of course, then it looks stupid and childish as Bush went to an ivy league school and the political strategy of "You're stupid. No, you are!" doesn't do a lot. It just shows that he was pandering to the Bush haters and not trying to get any new votes.
But let's assume that Kerry did mean what it sounds like he said. Would you be surprised? He has long been a member of the "Baby Killer!" crowd. This is a group that I have seen make these kinds of comments before. While in college I watched the ROTC students get harrased and called murderers. And I even had a friend from a class told that he was too stupid to get into college on his own and had to let the Army train him to be a killer so he could get in. She was shushed after he pointed out to her that he signed up after being in college for two years and that he had a 4.0 GPA. Given his audience it wouldn't have shocked me if he had meant what he said.
According to his prepared speech text given to the press, he not only left out two words, he left out an entire sentence.
"Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy?" Kerry was to say. "You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."
And when President Bush called him out on this Kerry's response was to say that he will not apologize. For the love of your career, man, at least apologize for misspeaking and say you meant to say that Bush is an idiot. Don't just refuse to admit anything you said came out bad.
Honestly, I kind of give Bush props for calling Kerry out on this. It was a direct insult intended for Bush and he flubbed it up, so Bush used it against him in his return blow. It's the sort of response I would give. Push them until they admit to making a mistake and that they originally were trying to play politics like a pouting child who is upset that he lost. Kerry gave the Republicans an advantage and they took it. Any action he makes from here looks bad. An apology looks bad and refusing to apologize looks bad.
Danoff
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- 34,106
- Mile High City
Nothing, because he ran against Bush after 9/11 - on the platform of getting out of Iraq slightly quicker than Bush. However, your point works if you change it to "What would he have done with a situation like 9/11?".
He expected the crowd to bust out laughing because he thought he was railing on the president. Maybe he does have a history of hating the troops, maybe he really thinks they are stupid. It doesn't matter, the guy is a politican - one that almost won the bid for presidency in the last round. He's not going to go say something that stupid on purpose. I don't think this was intended to be anything but a dig on the president (he's a popular target). I don't think he even understood what the republicans were getting at until it was already pretty late to apologize.
That being said, I still don't think this is a big deal. I'll be surprised if this affects anyone enough to vote for someone else... except maybe Kerry. His next election is in trouble.
- 10,116
- Maryland, USA
- swift-bass
Here's my take on it. If he would've said, "...or you'll get stuck in Iraq. I'm sorry, I meant you'll get US stuck in Iraq." Then there's no problem. But he didn't catch himself and he's refusing to apologize for miss speaking. And people say Bush is stupid.
- 5,987
Hold on here, can someone take me by the hand and explain this?
You guys are saying the Democrats just flushed their chances because Kerry said this? So people who originally were going to vote Democrat because of their anti-war campaign, but now have to vote Republican because the press misinterpreted what Kerry said? I'm seeing it as anti-war voters are now anti-Kerry, so they have to support Republicans and their war efforts?
Democracy WHAT!
You guys are saying the Democrats just flushed their chances because Kerry said this? So people who originally were going to vote Democrat because of their anti-war campaign, but now have to vote Republican because the press misinterpreted what Kerry said? I'm seeing it as anti-war voters are now anti-Kerry, so they have to support Republicans and their war efforts?
Democracy WHAT!
- 10,116
- Maryland, USA
- swift-bass
How is it a misinterpretation? Look at what he said and the fact that he didn't apologize for it. I'm trying to figure out how the GOP or anyone else has "spun" this. What he said was, "You work hard and study or you end up in Iraq." Danoff already pointed out that it's a no win situation unless he makes an immediate correction...of course, he didn't.
I don't think it's going to be major. Well, not at a self destructive level or anything. But it's going to get the middle of the road voters. And probably a few independents to go with the republican side.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
Why not? Some people have become anti-war and are going to vote Democrat because the media misrepresented situations in Iraq or said the economy is bad.
Why do you think people get all bent out of shape when the media doesn't give the full story on something or they over-focus on it? Because there are a lot of sheep in the general populous. I have met plenty of people that vote and I wish they didn't because they usually wind up voting the opposite of what they really want. They believe themselves to be informed when in fact they are just full of misinformation.
What many people see on the news is all they actually know about what is going on. So yes, some people will see what Kerry said, see bush demanding he apologize, and then see Kerry saying he won't apologize. Those people won't know anything else about the situation and will think that maybe these aren't the kind of people they want running the country. This is why even some Democrats are denouncing Kerry over this. They do not want to be associated with a statement that, even though mispoken, has the power to lose them votes.
- 5,082
- Panama City, FL
You can't be an officer in the US armed services without a degree. I wonder how all the captains and majors and colonels, etc. got to Iraq? Not to mention college-educated NCOs.
It's plain from the picture a couple of posts above how they feel about it!!! That was great!
It's plain from the picture a couple of posts above how they feel about it!!! That was great!
- 10,116
- Maryland, USA
- swift-bass
ROAD_DOGG33J
Premium
- 14,324
- IL, USA
- holyc0w1
- holyc0w
- 3,425
I sent it back to my buds in Iraq and to my nephew. They are all basicly either unaware or think Kerry is a dope anyway...but its getting rave reviews...I can't link you to the ones that show Kerry as Herman munster ...maybe I'll pm or e-mail it to famine or dannnnnnnn and they can clean it up to be rated pg-14..
but they KILLED him...its that good.
Adapt and improvise...the US military is great at making a point...and destroying its foes.
What a dope two days too late...
- 40,922
Because, in this case, to have done any good to not damage the Democratic party it would have had to happen 2 days ago. As it stands, him apologizing now just makes him look like he's sorry that his comments (intentionally or not) made people mad and therefore (true or not) means that this is viewed as an empty apology.
- 1,165
then an apology shouldn't be demanded at all because it can only be granted too late.
in the moment he screwed up his sentence he most surely wasn't aware of what others might have understood. but how should one apologize for something one doesn't even know had been commited yet?
ledhead,
i'm certainly no expert on US domestic politics. actually, as a civilized old-european, i'm rather surprised by the amount of mud slinging involved with this election.
in the moment he screwed up his sentence he most surely wasn't aware of what others might have understood. but how should one apologize for something one doesn't even know had been commited yet?
ledhead,
i'm certainly no expert on US domestic politics. actually, as a civilized old-european, i'm rather surprised by the amount of mud slinging involved with this election.
- 3,425
then an apology shouldn't be demanded at all because it can only be granted too late.
in the moment he screwed up his sentence he most surely wasn't aware of what others might have understood. but how should one apologize for something one doesn't even know had been committed yet?
ledhead,
I'm certainly no expert on US domestic politics. actually, as a civilized old-European, I'm rather surprised by the amount of mud slinging involved with this election.
thats the problem you keep looking at it with logic and reason and common sense....
here that won't work ...politiccs here is a blood sport and Kerry threw chum in the water ...he let the sharks feed for TWO days...
Normal guy.. with one once of political savvy.
as soon as the crap hits the fan and he realizes he made an error.
" hey guys bad joke...this is the way it really went....bammm...he tells his joke . Then he says;
" and let me tell you ...every single person serving in the military or a member of the family ...I apologize if I offended you it was never my intent , I hold you you in the greatest regard and know you are among the best America has to offer and I admire your courage and dedication to duty " .
BAMMMM ...door is closed ....Kerry gets to go on TV and tell his joke to 300,000,000 people...he turns a mistake into an opportunity and actually helps the democrats stay on message.
But instead you get what Kerry did. And his petulant apology and mishandling of the entire incident.
Is their anything else that better illustrates how this dolt lost to George Bush ?
Do you at least see my point here ? he cant handle a simple mistake without turning it into a major crisis....and they want him to run for President ???
The real question should be HOW can he win ?
Danoff
Premium
- 34,106
- Mile High City
thats the problem you keep looking at it with logic and reason and common sense....
here that won't work ...politiccs here is a blood sport and Kerry threw chum in the water ...he let the sharks feed for TWO days...
Very true. I'm not surprised by the reaction one bit, and I have to say that it would have been exactly the same if someone from the other side had said something equally stupid. I figure what the heck, he deserves it. Even the joke he was trying to tell - that the president is stupid - earns him some criticism.
I've got a feeling even GW couldn't have botched that joke so badly.
- 3,425
can he spell joke ?
Actually GWB got better grades than Kerry.....hows that for a freak out...the "underestimate me because you think I am dumb" is working great...two terms President..how many can say that ?
Dannoff they wanted the majority leader to resign over Foley even though they had no evidence or proof he did anything wrong..just by implication...and it turns out THEY held the information and new about it longer than Hasset...
Then their own goofball gets his nuts in a wringer over bad land deals in vegas...then Kerry does his stupid thing...etc,etc.
Bring in the clowns I say...oops we already did !
YAY I love elections !
I find it amazing that whenever a somewhat reckless statement is made, the excuse is always that we as the public 'misinterpreted' their 'message'. This Kerry situation can be likened to the controversy surrounding our Sheikh down under. Unacceptable, no more, certainly no less.
FormulaGT
FormulaGT
- 26,628
- OREGON
- a6m5zero
Like some people have been saying, this thing's been blown out of proportion, so I'll just comment on this part: He is still a human. Nobody is perfect, and I don't see his mistake as a major one. Not to apologize for it right away, now that was a major one. I don't know about you, but in that situation, I would have apologized right away.
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
The best part about his comments has been the speed in which people have backed away from him in the Democratic party. Kerry may as well have just given the 2008 nomination to people like Clinton and Obama, I don't think he could have made it any easier.
Quite frankly, I'm glad to see Kerry burning for what he said. Be it a misspoken "joke" or not, it shouldn't have been said in the first place. If the Democratic party is "better" than that of the Republican by not having to resort to personal attacks to maintain popularity, why exactly was this "joke" written into the speech to begin with?
Quite frankly, I'm glad to see Kerry burning for what he said. Be it a misspoken "joke" or not, it shouldn't have been said in the first place. If the Democratic party is "better" than that of the Republican by not having to resort to personal attacks to maintain popularity, why exactly was this "joke" written into the speech to begin with?
- 10,116
- Maryland, USA
- swift-bass
I don't consider that an apology. He's not saying he was wrong. He's saying we were wrong for taking offense. Yeah, that's weak.
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