Difficult Car Spotlight - Option Stream Z

[praiano63]

No rules or time attack contest..... the first idea was great. This car will never be competitive against top or even mid 600pp range cars. Above all , there is something broken or not well builded by PD at the origin.
The goal would be to let it drivable with sane reactions and at least fun ,any tires or power. Up to the tuner. This would be great already for this wonderfull car. We just have to try to make the handling stick to the nice visual and Z reputation.
This will be harder to do than to write.

 

[demonchilde]

I dunno man, your probably right as far as TOP ones, but I think we could turn this into something real competitive for at least 85% of the 600pp range cars. Maybe even more then that.
power/weight ratio and standards should make it a Boss car for the range. The challenges of the car make this not the case. Im still thinking we can defeat that curve.

 

[praiano63]

Personally i think tht the most annoying thing about this car is not the handling but the crazy peaky power range. Even a close ratios gearbox don´t resolve anything.
For this reason i think i´ll do a 550PP tune using a lot of power limiter to make the power curve flat enough.

 

[BlueShift]

I was seeking out rare cars that are a huge challenge.

Removing the TCS out of a maxed-out Zonda R can be a difficult challenge if you want my opinion. The YB is not tamed yet (but a mainstream "tuning everest" imho). You can have lots of different chalenges like this.

Anyway, the consensus is no PP / no tire limit ? The problem will be that any car can be tuned to have better result with high PP, and most people in the FITT chalenge based their DC on laptimes only. So more PP = better laptimes "if you can drive her".

I don't know. If she can reach 700PP she will never be competitive with a group C car, if she reach 650PP she will never be competitive with a ZZ2 so what's the point... It depends of her PP range I guess.

I think next tuning challenges should wait the 1.05 because so much people yelled about camber these days that the problem can't be unknown to PD (one month since 1.04 now, I think we're not far from 1.05 by more than 15 days).

@XS I use Rome too, and no, it's not technical once you know it but offers a large panel of different situations. It's a very good tuning track imo.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Low rpm turbo can help with the peaky engine power curve I used low rpm turbo to reach 600PP dead with oil change, easier to manage even on comfort soft tire Just have to feather 70%-90% throttle on 1st to 3rd gear , but I am used to do that

 

[demonchilde]

~~~~Blueshift, thanks for the info about the Zonda, but you will never find me in one. I absolutely dispose that car, all of them, that have that Zonda shape. It's like a race car, but it's also like a thick box car, and reminds me more of a hot-wheels special edition when they were trying too hard.
Again, my dislike is solely on looks, lol, not drive.

Also, about 'any' car can be tuned easily if maxed out at full PP, technically your right. But easily isn't a good word, especially for this car. I found it 'easier' to tune it to 600pp then maxed.

You are correct about the lap times thing though. Everyone only cares and judges based on lap times, and I think it's disappointing. I thought the point in tuning the cars, was to take something that isn't that great, and tune it to be an awesome 'feeling' car. One that handles like a dream, and makes you feel like a King when behind the wheel. Not every car CAN reach that status, but the fun is in the trying to, lol.

~~~~Ridox, YES! Lol, I had a very lot of success using both low and middle turbo, over the high. The car is overpowered for its weight and body, and you will not get a good feeling unless you tone it down somehow. Completely agree ^^

~~~~Praiano, I agree with you there, going off of what I just said to Ridox, the 550-600pp range helps the car a ton. It takes just enough of the overpower out, while leaving enough to keep it still strong.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Hmm, I wanted it to be more like the FITT Car of The Month thread and less of a shootout.

XS, what is your objective? If I look behind the written words, it feel like a really good way to get tuners focused on a neglected car. With your tread containing all tunes, you have the best insight into the most popular and least popular cars. This seems like a great way to quickly get multiple tunes added for some of the more neglected cars. If that is your purpose, I do not think that you need more structure. You will get differing PP levels and tunes built at different tracks and I think that variety will be good for the overall community.

 

[demonchilde]

XS, what is your objective? If I look behind the written words, it feel like a really good way to get tuners focused on a neglected car. With your tread containing all tunes, you have the best insight into the most popular and least popular cars. This seems like a great way to quickly get multiple tunes added for some of the more neglected cars. If that is your purpose, I do not think that you need more structure. You will get differing PP levels and tunes built at different tracks and I think that variety will be good for the overall community.

Everything MC just said, yes. I agree 100% ^^

 

[DolHaus]

The thing I worry about with the open format is that when someone from outside or new to the community comes here looking for a tune for their favourite car they will be swamped with options and possibly discouraged. If their are 20 tunes for the same car from various tuners with various styles, how do they know where to start?
Maybe if the tuners could add a small review of the tune describing what it does well and where the compromises have been made?
I don't know, I'm just trying to make it accessible to people who may not understand tuning or what to look for in a setup.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

PP level and tires are good sign to look for, then maybe tune notes could help more with detail, what to expect and what not to do with the car I usually write stuff ( notes ) on my tune/replica so people will know a little more than just PP, tire and setups.

 

[DolHaus]

PP level and tires are good sign to look for, then maybe tune notes could help more with detail, what to expect and what not to do with the car I usually write stuff ( notes ) on my tune/replica so people will know a little more than just PP, tire and setups.

I agree with you to some extent, but having the right tires and the right PP does not always mean its a good tune. I know from time spent on here whos tunes are likely to be good because of their reputation and my previous experience with trying their tunes, but the same can't be said for someone who maybe isn't as involved in the community.
As experienced tuners it is fairly easy for us to look at a tuning sheet and see whether there's anything strange about it, but a lot of members don't know what to look for and just see a random series of numbers that mean absolutely nothing to them

 

[demonchilde]

While you guys think about the options, I'll go ahead and post my tune. Also, you may use this as an example as to how the tunes should be posted (although most tuners already know what to include).
First off, this is the first tune I've ever posted, so I'm a little nervous about how well it's going to do. Second a better tuner than I may be able to refine it some, but I just can't get it to lap any faster.

Nissan OPTION Stream Z '04

Tuner Info
Controller: DS3
Track Used: Nürburgring GP/F
Tires Tuned On: Sports Soft and Racing Hard
All aides off, except ABS at 1

Vehicle Specs
599PP
HP - 796/6,200 rpm
Torque - 655.8/6,200 rpm
Weight - 1,252kg

GT Auto
Oil Change at 0.0 miles

Installed Parts
Weight Reduction Stage 3
Racing Brakes
Fully Customizable Dog-Clutch Transmission
Sports Soft and Racing Hard Tires

Suspension
Ride Height: Front 75 | Rear 75
Spring Rate: Front 14.30 | Rear 15.60
Dampers Compression: Front 5 | Rear 9
Dampers Extension: Front 3 | Rear 8
Anti-roll Bars: Front 3 | Rear 5
Camber Angle: Front 0 | Rear 0
Toe Angle: Front -0.25 | Rear -0.05
Brake Balance: Front 8 | Rear 8

Transmission
Set top speed to 217mph (default settings)
Set individual ratios
1) 3.024
2) 2.105
3) 1.596
4) 1.257
5) 1.026
6) 0.860
Adjust final gear to track, 3.264 is perfect for Bathurst.

Limited Slip Differential
Initial Torque: 12
Accel Sensitivity: 13
Braking Sensitivity: 5

Body
Downforce: Front 0 | Rear 125
Ballast: 0 at 0

Comments
This tune completely ended up going in a different direction than I could have predicted. I was first quite puzzled by the one second gain in lap time by reversing the damper settings. Usually this means something was amiss somewhere else in the tune, but no matter what I did to balance the tune out, the car still went faster on reversed damper settings. Mid-corner speeds are still a little sluggish for my liking but corner entry is easy and predictable. The car performs well on sports soft tires but really comes alive with racing hards. All in all I wouldn't consider it a victory but I am still pleased with the tune as is.

What's the PP level of this version/tune you did XS?

 

[demonchilde]

I agree with you to some extent, but having the right tires and the right PP does not always mean its a good tune. I know from time spent on here whos tunes are likely to be good because of their reputation and my previous experience with trying their tunes, but the same can't be said for someone who maybe isn't as involved in the community.
As experienced tuners it is fairly easy for us to look at a tuning sheet and see whether there's anything strange about it, but a lot of members don't know what to look for and just see a random series of numbers that mean absolutely nothing to them

That is so true.

 

[FussyFez]

I like the idea of an open format, unrestricted. With the main focus on feel and handling.

Maybe have each tuner build two setups.

A feel and fun setup, and a laptime setup.

Or the option to do either

I would be tempted to build the fun setup for any car, but for lap times, I would be less inclined, as there is a good chance it wouldnt be competitive.

So my proposition is a two tier challenge.

Build a fun setup to any PP, tyres and track

Build a laptime build to specified PP, tyres and track/s.

You would end up with a broad range of tunes for different driving styles and input devices.

 

[demonchilde]

Remember the dreaded 24 hour events and 500km races from GT5, lol?

Not necessarily 'fun group' as a good word for it, but how about this;

If you were going to be in a situation where you were going to be stuck in a race for a couple hours straight, build a tune for this car, that would make it a decent, even, good driving, well handled, and competitive ride you wouldn't mind being in.

I'm all for that group
I would take that over a rocket any day.


As far as the lap time group, that pretty much IS a FITT challenge, only all with the same car, lol. I don't know about you guys, but to me that seems stupid.
In the FITT challenges, at least everyone gets to pick a different car, therefor allowing some play with tuning and car ability. This makes totally different cars/tunes for any testers to be testing.
If we all did the exact same car, with the exact same PP and tires, you know what is going to happen?
--we aren't all at the exact same level as far as tuning, BUT we are ALL better then average, and we ALL know the basic dynamics of tuning, do we not?
--We're all going to have the same or VERY close parts, as to hit the PP limit.
--we're all going to build the height/springs for speed and corner handling, with dampers to compliment them.
--we're all going to have perfectly set LSD guaranteed to be very close if not the exact same as each other's once finely tuned by each of us.
And the poor-poor person who has to test the exact same car, on the exact same track, with 20 tunes almost exact to each other, is going to be saying "this is stupid" over and over and over again, lol.

Forgive me if I'm opinionated too much, lol. But I am, and I can't change that.

 

[XS]

What's the PP level of this version/tune you did XS?

My tune is 599PP, sorry it's there but I didn't bold it like I should have.

Okay, Motor City Hami is right about my agenda to shed light on difficult cars which are seldom tuned. For this car it will be open tuning. Any PP, any tire, any track. We'll see how it goes and if changes need to be made I will address them for the March car. No offense to anyone, all great ideas here!

Anyway, two tunes are already up. Cheers!

 

[Motor City Hami]

I really like this (and the FITT car of the month). There is less pressure. As most of you know, I am a very competitive person. I got second to @NEWDRIVER2 in the FITT Classic Muscle challenge and my mind just has to know what he did to be that little bit faster. So my PS3 should expect to see a few laps done in his tune in an effort for me to keep learning. That's just my sickness when it comes to racing.

With this, I can be more casual and either choose to make something a little more stable and forgiving to drive or if I am in the mood, make one that is on the ragged edge. I used this car a ton in GT4, but for some reason, never even put a mile on it in GT5. This will be a nice way to reunite with an old friend.

 

[DolHaus]

Maybe we could draw up a marking sheet for various things (speed/ease of use/brakes etc.) and mark them out of 10. We could tag the tuner in the post and then they could work out the average overall scores and add it to their original post, might give people an idea of what the car can do and if it would suit their driving style.
We would all have the cars already so it wouldn't be hard to retune and take them out for a few laps of testing.

 

[praiano63]

Maybe we could draw up a marking sheet for various things (speed/ease of use/brakes etc.) and mark them out of 10. We could tag the tuner in the post and then they could work out the average overall scores and add it to their original post, might give people an idea of what the car can do and if it would suit their driving style.
We would all have the cars already so it wouldn't be hard to retune and take them out for a few laps of testing.

I have a tune 550PP sport soft for Option Stream Z to publish in a few. Driving sensations and able to fight against the best 550PP car in any online room. From Tsukuba to the ring, just setting a new final gear for each.



The system you`re talking above remember me the 400PP Nordschleife Shootout, where i did a Points attribution System like this.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/400pp-nordschleife-shootout.241759/page-35#post-6659955

Here is a sample:

400PP Nordschleife Shootout
Points attribution System

Max speed end of straight under the bridge: till 220kmh= 24pts // 220-225 kmh= 26 pts // 225 +230 kmh = 28 pts // 230 kmh + = 30 pts

Low speed corner:
entry 10 pts = agressive entry with little overster oriented inside the corner.

mid 10 pts = quick driving direction changes without loosing the rear

out 10 pts = little oversteer with full early power allowing round corner out.


medium speed corner:
entry 10 pts = agressive entry with little overster oriented inside the corner.

mid 10 pts = perfect control of driving line with throttle ,eagerness ,good grip staying in line.

out 10 pts = little oversteer with full early power allowing round corner out.


High speed corner:
entry 10 pts = Good and sharp direction to place the car , grip, precision and stability.

mid 10 pts = perfect control of driving line ,constant grip ,no floatty (snake).

out 10 pts = When full gas, no little oversteer that make loose speed, no understeer that don't allow full throttle, perfect balance.




Theo777 PSN: Zigatan// Ford Focus ST170`03
8.27.582

Test drive result // total points= 109 pts

Max speed under bridge: 215 km/h = 134 mph =24 pts

Low speed corner:
Entry: 9 Middle:9 Out: 9
Comments: excellent grip and line , always perfectly balanced. Perhaps a higher rear bias will let the front tires with more grip after strong braking, staying red when trail braking.From 5/6 to 4/7 for example.

Medium speed corner:
Entry: 9 Middle: 9 Out: 10
Comments: Still excellent grip,good entry under break, when at good speed stay on line steady on his way, out corner you can accelerate early without a bad surprise and no understeer at all, perfect.

High speed corner:
Entry: 10 Middle: 10 Out: 10
Comments: Faster , more grip and more line carrying more speed than all the other cars I have tested. Just perfect again.

This is the perfect tune for me. The car just don`t have a good top speed for the ring, but I can´t see any wrong thing in his balance and grip.
Very good job, congratulations.

 

[DolHaus]

I have a tune 550PP sport soft for Option Stream Z to publish in a few. Driving sensations and able to fight against the best 550PP car in any online room. From Tsukuba to the ring, just setting a new final gear for each.



The system you`re talking above remember me the 400PP Nordschleife Shootout, where i did a Points attribution System like this.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/400pp-nordschleife-shootout.241759/page-35#post-6659955

Here is a sample:

400PP Nordschleife Shootout
Points attribution System

Max speed end of straight under the bridge: till 220kmh= 24pts // 220-225 kmh= 26 pts // 225 +230 kmh = 28 pts // 230 kmh + = 30 pts

Low speed corner:
entry 10 pts = agressive entry with little overster oriented inside the corner.

mid 10 pts = quick driving direction changes without loosing the rear

out 10 pts = little oversteer with full early power allowing round corner out.


medium speed corner:
entry 10 pts = agressive entry with little overster oriented inside the corner.

mid 10 pts = perfect control of driving line with throttle ,eagerness ,good grip staying in line.

out 10 pts = little oversteer with full early power allowing round corner out.


High speed corner:
entry 10 pts = Good and sharp direction to place the car , grip, precision and stability.

mid 10 pts = perfect control of driving line ,constant grip ,no floatty (snake).

out 10 pts = When full gas, no little oversteer that make loose speed, no understeer that don't allow full throttle, perfect balance.




Theo777 PSN: Zigatan// Ford Focus ST170`03
8.27.582

Test drive result // total points= 109 pts

Max speed under bridge: 215 km/h = 134 mph =24 pts

Low speed corner:
Entry: 9 Middle:9 Out: 9
Comments: excellent grip and line , always perfectly balanced. Perhaps a higher rear bias will let the front tires with more grip after strong braking, staying red when trail braking.From 5/6 to 4/7 for example.

Medium speed corner:
Entry: 9 Middle: 9 Out: 10
Comments: Still excellent grip,good entry under break, when at good speed stay on line steady on his way, out corner you can accelerate early without a bad surprise and no understeer at all, perfect.

High speed corner:
Entry: 10 Middle: 10 Out: 10
Comments: Faster , more grip and more line carrying more speed than all the other cars I have tested. Just perfect again.

This is the perfect tune for me. The car just don`t have a good top speed for the ring, but I can´t see any wrong thing in his balance and grip.
Very good job, congratulations.

Yeah something like that could work well. I would probably leave the max speed section out but the rest seems ideal in my mind. Numbers for quick reference, a small review for further details, perfect!

 

[XS]

Any objections? Tuner's rate themselves right (at least I think that's what you meant DolHaus)? As of right now we don't have any reviewers willing to test the same car over and over again lol.

 

[iainoflo85]

Any objections? Tuner's rate themselves right (at least I think that's what you meant DolHaus)? As of right now we don't have any reviewers willing to test the same car over and over again lol.

Didn't I not say I would? Guess you must've missed that.

 

[XS]

Didn't miss it, just forgot.

 

[DolHaus]

Any objections? Tuner's rate themselves right (at least I think that's what you meant DolHaus)? As of right now we don't have any reviewers willing to test the same car over and over again lol.

I don't think that a tuner should review their own car generally, its too subjective. The way I like my cars may not be right for someone else.
I think we just need to make an effort to test and review each others cars, if you are willing to submit a tune then you should be willing to test as well (you already have the car, right? Only takes 10 mins to change a few parts and settings and hit the track for a few laps). I'm not asking anyone to submit and test by a deadline, just do it in your own time and help everyone progress

 

[praiano63]

NISSAN OPTION STREAM Z // 550PP // SPORT SOFT TIRES


Here is my car. Very different than the stock one. The tune could handle more power but the very peaky engine is very annoying to drive, just like a suzuki pike peak ,so my solution was a flatter powerband, only possible using power limiter.
Click on the picture to access the setting sheet.



Enjoy your drive ><(((((°>°°°°°​

 

[XS]

@DolHaus Oh sorry for the confusion.

 

[FussyFez]

I don't think that a tuner should review their own car generally, its too subjective. The way I like my cars may not be right for someone else.
I think we just need to make an effort to test and review each others cars, if you are willing to submit a tune then you should be willing to test as well (you already have the car, right? Only takes 10 mins to change a few parts and settings and hit the track for a few laps). I'm not asking anyone to submit and test by a deadline, just do it in your own time and help everyone progress

I also don't see much point in tuners reviewing there own cars. It will always play to their own personal preferences. A brief description about how it came about and the main targets of the tune would be enough IMO.

I will be testing all the tunes after making my own. I'm trying to not even look at the other tunes posted until mine is done, just as a personal thing.

I love the idea of anyone who posts a tune should test the rest and give opinions.

A few people working on the same car, but with different methods, will always bring revelations in handling traits etc.

All reviews will be honest and genuine.

 

[XS]

I have no problem reviewing other's tunes. Also if it takes the pressure out of it we can follow Praiano's post but remove the points value. Or not, just an idea. Anyway, we'll go ahead and keep it open tuning and over the course of today and tomorrow if nobody objects to reviewing other's work following the format above we'll go ahead and start that as well in the near future. I'm looking forward to the tunes! I really hope this evolves into something good, shining light on cars that have been hidden away through out the entire series.

 

[DolHaus]

Am I the only one whos finding that this car isn't that bad to drive in stock trim? Its a little bit understeery at the limit, but apart from that it just feels like a normal 350Z. All I've done so far is balanced the car with ballast (+Weight reduction 3) and it feels aright on Racing Hards. Might try running it on less grippy tires and see if it develops any problems

 

[XS]

Really? I hated it stock. I agree with Praiano about it feeling strange and having unusual traits. Especially without ballast it's hard to tune it to compete with most cars at 550pp or 600pp. My Viper GTS and Shelby Mustang eat it for lunch at 600pp, even with a good tune it's still slower.
Edit, you're right about racing tires though - this car absolutely comes alive on RH. Sports soft are a different story though.
Last ninja edit promise! It's still slower than a good chunk of 600pp cars when comparing cars on race tires. I'm not including the super GT cars either.