Digital surveillance, facial recognition, privacy and security

[Imari]

Nope. In your world it might. But not for me.

So you lock your doors why? Because you're worried about someone stealing your stuff? Or coming in and assaulting you? That's pretty unlikely in the first place, and locking your doors is really only slowing down criminals anyway. If they want to take your stuff, they'll smash a window and take your stuff.

But you're not worried about your personal information, because while you can see how it might be used against you it's deemed to be insufficient a threat to spend any time taking precautions against.

It's exactly the same for you and for everyone. The only thing that changes is how comfortable you are with being robbed and with having your personal information misused. And I suppose whether your feelings on this are informed by accurate assessments of the risk and consequences of these potential outcomes.

 

[PocketZeven]

Do go on about how protecting your assets is not comparable to protecting your assets.

Depends if you comparing with theft of your property with personlised ads according to your internet behavior as one in the same?

So you lock your doors why? Because you're worried about someone stealing your stuff? Or coming in and assaulting you? That's pretty unlikely in the first place, and locking your doors is really only slowing down criminals anyway. If they want to take your stuff, they'll smash a window and take your stuff.

But you're not worried about your personal information, because while you can see how it might be used against you it's deemed to be insufficient a threat to spend any time taking precautions against.

It's exactly the same for you and for everyone. The only thing that changes is how comfortable you are with being robbed and with having your personal information misused. And I suppose whether your feelings on this are informed by accurate assessments of the risk and consequences of these potential outcomes.

I have my house broken in about 3-4 times in 10 years. So I lock my doors and have a surveillance system. I am carefull how I use my personal info on the internet... So no I dont worry about my personal information being used online.

 

[Northstar]

Depends if you comparing with theft of your property with personlised ads according to your internet behavior as one in the same?

I am and let me explain why.

The way they collect the info for targeted ads is by tracking your every move, viewing your photos, listening to your conversations and the end result is unsolicited communications.

Now, I don't know how it works in your world, but in mine that sounds very close to stalking, which is illegal. Surely you wouldn't tell a stalking victim that they shouldn't be worried if they have nothing to hide?

I am carefull how I use my personal info on the internet.

But are the companies holding your info careful? It also doesn't matter if you've never bought anything online in your life, if you have a bank account, that info is on the internet. The question is how well is your bank securing that info.

I'm very careful about my personal info as well, but I still check all my accounts at least once a day. Such vigilance has saved my 🤬 twice now as I was able to cancel fraudulent charges before they even went through.

So no I dont worry about my personal information being used online.

Than I hope you never have to deal with the nightmare that is identity theft.

 

[PocketZeven]

I am and let me explain why.

The way they collect the info for targeted ads is by tracking your every move, viewing your photos, listening to your conversations and the end result is unsolicited communications.

Now, I don't know how it works in your world, but in mine that sounds very close to stalking, which is illegal. Surely you wouldn't tell a stalking victim that they shouldn't be worried if they have nothing to hide?



But are the companies holding your info careful? It also doesn't matter if you've never bought anything online in your life, if you have a bank account, that info is on the internet. The question is how well is your bank securing that info.

I'm very careful about my personal info as well, but I still check all my accounts at least once a day. Such vigilance has saved my 🤬 twice now as I was able to cancel fraudulent charges before they even went through.



Than I hope you never have to deal with the nightmare that is identity theft.

Dont share your photos that way. Turn off gps, use encrypted messages or do less communicating by phone. A physical stalker has different motivations then what you are describing.

I have my own business and have to comply to the new privacy laws in europe, so there has been significant change already. Not complying is punishable up to 12k per offense. I agree that personal information (ID, Bank account) should not be traded or used as a commodity.

*knock on wood* Me too, but the problem is that phishing happens online/digital as well as in real life/analog. Even if the government were to listen to my phonecalls, I wouldnt have that much problems with it. I dont have much to hide. The IRS has spied on me for tax evasion (listening phonecalls and following me physically) because of money laundering suspision. They have to report it 2/3 years after the conclusion of the investigation. I never felt violated. Anything private that has to stay secret, I always handle privately or with a computer with no internet connection.

edit: correction

 

[Northstar]

Dont share your photos that way. Turn off gps, use encrypted messages or do less communicating by phone.

It's odd how similar this post sounds to the one that started this whole thing.

Edit your phone's permissions, start using Firefox as browser, Linux if you can on your computers.
Combined with Adblock and scriptblockers you can shield yourself reasonably well.

And if course, don't buy something like an Alexa or Google Home.

A physical stalker has different motivations then what you are describing.

If someone is violating my rights, I couldn't give two turds what their motivation is.

I always handle privately or with a computer with no internet connection.

...Unless a person has nothing to hide.

 

[PocketZeven]

...Unless a person has nothing to hide.

Everyone has secrets. But not in my internet behavior.

 

[Northstar]

Everyone has secrets. But not in my internet behavior.

So why are you so against other's wanting to protect their privacy when you admit you yourself take measures to do the same?

 

[PocketZeven]

So why are you so against other's wanting to protect their privacy when you admit you yourself take measures to do the same?

I wasnt against it. I simply stated that some people take more measures, probably because they have more to hide.

 

[Northstar]

I wasnt against it.

You need to pay attention to what you write more.

But recommending moving towards linux using private browsers and not buying alexa or other similar products is kind of taking it far.

Why are taking those precautions taking it to far but storing things on a computer that's not even connected to the internet isn't?

 

[PocketZeven]

You need to pay attention to what you write more.



Why are taking those precautions taking it to far but storing things on a computer that's not even connected to the internet isn't?

Not against it. Just stating when one takes it that far, one probably has more to hide. The farther one it takes, the more a person has to hide.

If you assumed I was against taking all kinds of precautions, then you read my opinion incorrectly.

 

[Dennisch]

Not against it. Just stating when one takes it that far, one probably has more to hide. The farther one it takes, the more a person has to hide.

You talk so much poo, that you are rivalling the cows for the first place in methane emissions. And it's in many different colours too.

 

[PocketZeven]

You talk so much poo, that you are rivalling the cows for the first place in methane emissions. And it's in many different colours too.

Chill dude. As a fellow countryman you seem agitated very quickly, especially against me. What is wrong with what I asked?

 

[Northstar]

Not against it. Just stating when one takes it that far, one probably has more to hide. The farther one it takes, the more a person has to hide.

Interesting...

I always handle privately or with a computer with no internet connection.

I can't think of a way to take it any further so it makes me wonder what.. you know what, I don't even want to know.

If you assumed I was against taking all kinds of precautions, then you read my opinion incorrectly.

I got the impression you are arguing against it based on the fact you are arguing people that support taking precautions to protect their privacy.

 

[PocketZeven]

Interesting...



I can't think of a way to take it any further so it makes me wonder what.. you know what, I don't even want to know.



I got the impression you are arguing against it based on the fact you are arguing people that support taking precautions to protect their privacy.

Certain things concerning contracts and payments do not always require a papertrail in certain business dealings.

The reaction was to suggesting moving to linux and not recommending alexa or google home. Where is the evidence that OSX, google or windows are dangerous to use?

 

[Dennisch]

Chill dude. As a fellow countryman you seem agitated very quickly. What is wrong with what I asked?

Oh dear countryman, I am not agitated in the slightest because of the verbal doodoo you're spewing onto these forums. I outgrew that a time long ago. It's just that you talk so much, but you say very little that it becomes quite hilarious to watch you discuss.

Wanting to keep your privacy has nothing to do with hiding anything. A simple concept you cannot seem to grasp. But then you do the same with keeping your privates private. So odd. So confusing.

 

[PocketZeven]

Oh dear countryman, I am not agitated in the slightest because of the verbal doodoo you're spewing onto these forums. I outgrew that a time long ago. It's just that you talk so much, but you say very little that it becomes quite hilarious to watch you discuss.

Wanting to keep your privacy has nothing to do with hiding anything. A simple concept you cannot seem to grasp. But then you do the same with keeping your privates private. So odd. So confusing.

I was adressing the measures you are taking as perhaps a bit too far. Adressing my posts as poo or doodoo is quite unrespectfull. Decency you perhaps lack. But I will ask again, do you have much to hide?

One of the things I was perhaps trying to adress is how people misbehave (deaththreats, trolling etc.), exactly because of the anonimity the internet has introduced in their lives. What if there was no anonimity? What are the motivation of the people that are so paranoid about their privacy? (not including valid paranoia)

 

[Dennisch]

But I will ask again, do you have much to hide?

Nothing but my privacy, something I own and regulate. I decide what goes online and in public. Not Microsoft, Google, Apple, Amazon etc. etc.

It really is a simple concept.

Edit.

People do not need intrusive companies controlling their lives, pushing them in directions they normally wouldn't go.

 

[Joey D]

The IRS has spied on me for tax evasion (listening phonecalls and following me physically) because of money laundering suspision.

Wait a minute. Is the IRS something different in the Netherlands or are you talking about the IRS, as in the Internal Revenue Service, a department within the US government?

 

[Dennisch]

Wait a minute. Is the IRS something different in the Netherlands or are you talking about the IRS, as in the Internal Revenue Service, a department within the US government?

I think that he means that the Dutch equivalent of the IRS, De Belastingdienst, did a bit of snooping around into his financial shenanigans.

 

[Northstar]

One of the things I was perhaps trying to adress is how people misbehave (deaththreats, trolling etc.), exactly because of the anonimity the internet has introduced in their lives. What if there was no anonimity?

The internet is not as anonymous as you (and lots of other people) seem to think it is.

What are the motivation of the people that are so paranoid about their privacy? (not including valid paranoia)

The same reason I close the blinds when I go to bed. Obviously I'm not doing anything illegal while sleeping* but that doesn't mean I want passersby gazing at me while sleeping.

*Well, except for all the awesome bank heists and other shenanigans that I've taken part in during my dreams.

 

[Imari]

I have my house broken in about 3-4 times in 10 years. So I lock my doors and have a surveillance system. I am carefull how I use my personal info on the internet... So no I dont worry about my personal information being used online.

And there it is. You take precautions around how you allow access to your personal information, yet you're being dismissive of others who suggest that one should take precautions around how they allow access to their personal information?

Dude. Hypocritical much?

Stop suggesting that people who take privacy seriously by definition have something to hide as if that were a bad thing. Yes, they're trying to hide their personal information so that they can maintain control of it, and that's perfectly rational and sensible. You even agree, as you do it yourself.

If you're happy with a single lock on your front door and someone else wants two locks, a deadbolt and a keypad, I don't think that gives you any grounds to suggest that they therefore have something to hide.

 

[PocketZeven]

Wait a minute. Is the IRS something different in the Netherlands or are you talking about the IRS, as in the Internal Revenue Service, a department within the US government?

I think that he means that the Dutch equivalent of the IRS, De Belastingdienst, did a bit of snooping around into his financial shenanigans.

I was referring to the Dutch equivelant. Sorry for the confusion.

It was part of a national investigation. I was randomly picked.

And there it is. You take precautions around how you allow access to your personal information, yet you're being dismissive of others who suggest that one should take precautions around how they allow access to their personal information?

Dude. Hypocritical much?

Stop suggesting that people who take privacy seriously by definition have something to hide as if that were a bad thing. Yes, they're trying to hide their personal information so that they can maintain control of it, and that's perfectly rational and sensible. You even agree, as you do it yourself.

If you're happy with a single lock on your front door and someone else wants two locks, a deadbolt and a keypad, I don't think that gives you any grounds to suggest that they therefore have something to hide.

Not dismissive. I just found it excessive and recommended that if one does have secrets, to keep them away from the internet.
What is the hypocritical part?

I already explained that the comparison is completely flawed.

I only adressed it, because changing to Linux and staying away from alexa and google home, for the sake of privacy does suggest someone takes abnormal measures to protect their privacy. I therefore assumed he had something to hide. Dennisch adressed this later that it personally wasnt about hiding anything, but seeing privacy as a property he wants to protect. That cleared it up for me.

Why did I ask that? Because there are many people that want to hide their activity for various sometimes criminal reasons. Do you think my suggestion or question was out of line?

 

[Northstar]

Why did I ask that? Because there are many people that want to hide their activity for various sometimes criminal reasons. Do you think my suggestion or question was out of line?

Never ASSUME, because when you ASSUME, you make an ASS of U and ME.

Some people would be fine walking down a busy sidewalk nude while others are extremely self-conscious about their bodies, there's nothing wrong with simply being in either category and yes, it would be out of line to make judgments about them without actually talking to them and finding out why they are that way.

 

[PocketZeven]

Never ASSUME, because when you ASSUME, you make an ASS of U and ME.

Some people would be fine walking down a busy sidewalk nude while others are extremely self-conscious about their bodies, there's nothing wrong with simply being in either category and yes, it would be out of line to make judgments about them without actually talking to them and finding out why they are that way.

Why did you think I asked the question? I am curious so I asked.

I asked the question, before making a judgment. Ironically you are making a judgment about me, before asking the motivation. But that seems a recurring theme. I have a stance for gun regulation and against Trump and some assume I am a far left liberal.

 

[Dotini]

Why did you think I asked the question? I am curious so I asked.

I asked the question, before making a judgment. Ironically you are making a judgment about me, before asking the motivation. But that seems a recurring theme. I have a stance for gun regulation and against Trump and some assume I am a far left liberal.

Do you feel a loyalty to China?

 

[PocketZeven]

Do you feel a loyalty to China?

Yes and no.

 

[Liquid]

Given your financial situation, you do sound like a good candidate to target for a loan...especially one with an interest rate of up to 9% (which is crazy high, in the US it's around 4%). Basically you presumably have an income, something your bank more than likely knows and you probably have a decent saving's account and checking account that's never had an overdraft. You're also probably right around the age of many first time home buyers in your area based on your bank's data. Finally, as we are approaching the end of the year, people are starting to set goals for 2020, one of which might be getting their own place.

Still, it's really unsettling.

I understand that I'm one of the key demos but it's just the fact that I have been a customer of this bank for 5 years and I've never had any kind of pop-ups, incentives or advertisements from the bank ever and it just seems so... fortuitous... that the first time it happened is very shortly after I have a private conversation about personal finance with a friend.

 

[PocketZeven]

I understand that I'm one of the key demos but it's just the fact that I have been a customer of this bank for 5 years and I've never had any kind of pop-ups, incentives or advertisements from the bank ever and it just seems so... fortuitous... that the first time it happened is very shortly after I have a private conversation about personal finance with a friend.

I think it indeed has more to do with you being in the correct demograph, then actual spying. To be sure, you could ask the bank if they have a history of these ads, or maybe they just started a new campaign.

 

[Northstar]

Why did you think I asked the question? I am curious so I asked.

You didn't start with a question though.

Unless a person has nothing to hide.

No questions asked here.

@Dennisch you probably have lots to hide?

If you want privacy from internet stop posting dickpics, nude photographs, sensitive information etc. Or even better dont use it. If you are a criminal doing illegal acts, its only a good thing.

That said, the trade of using peoples personal information as a commodity should be fought against. But recommending moving towards linux using private browsers and not buying alexa or other similar products is kind of taking it far.

This is your second post and while it does feature a question, it's more along the lines of a cop asking why someone did a crime in the attempt to coerce a confession. You than followed that with a whole mountain of judgements before asking a question that is required to make an actual judgement.

If you read byond that quote, I adressed that personal information should remain private and not a commodity. If you want to opt out of receiving ads, dont use google, facebook etc. They have every right to provide their (free) service on an adbased revenue model. What do you mean with privacy?

Hey, there it is, and it only took 3 posts for you to finally ask the question that should have been asked in the first place!

I asked the question, before making a judgment.

As I've shown above, you most certainly did not.

Ironically you are making a judgment about me, before asking the motivation. But that seems a recurring theme. I have a stance for gun regulation and against Trump and some assume I am a far left liberal.

I haven't made any actual judgements about you. The only thing close is the fact you can't seem to make up your mind, but that's something you display openly across various threads.

 

[Dotini]

IMO, we are approaching a total surveillance state. It won't be long before it becomes a tyranny and civil war or armed insurrection/sabotage breaks out.