- 4,022
- Cincinnati, OH
I'm assuming this is directed at me?
DiRT Rally Thread
- Thread starter The Stig Farmer
- 2,815 comments
- 240,080 views
I'm assuming this is directed at me?
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
At anyone who protests that simulator physics aren't realistic enough. Especially when they have no experience of actual competition. For some reason, people seem to think that if only developers could build hyper-realistic recreations of rally cars, public and popular demand would skyrocket.
This doesn't help explain why you think PCARS is arcadey or what it's lacking. A game isn't arcadey because it's on consoles, or because it's played with a controller. If that's your perspective, it clears up why you would think Assetto Corsa is arcadey, because I have heard almost nothing but gushing praise for its physics.
I think the physics in PCARS have some considerable rough spots, but not much that makes it "arcadey", just wrong and in need of improvement. Probably the most arcadey thing is how there's no reason to run anything but soft tires because they don't wear down enough, so every race in cars with slicks is full-bore cornering unless it rains. That and how the quirks of the tire model make AWDs unflappable, and to a lesser extent FWDs.
While we're on the subject, I do think Forza is deliberately made to be more accessible to a broad audience. Not enough to consider it a "simcade" game, but since FM4 and FH1, Turn 10 and Playground have shown no willingness to mess with the traits that cause cars to understeer on corner entry and RWD cars to recover from oversteer as if they were AWD cars with a 5% split to the front wheels. It's confidence-inspiring to the uninitiated, and I can't blame T10/PG for running with it. That is the clearest example of making a sim "arcadey" that I can think of.
I don't even think GT is deliberately made to be more accessible. I think Polyphony just has their head in the clouds.
- 4,382
Oh but you must try out Forza M. 5 and 6, especially 5. I think you might change your stance. They made notable improvements to the physics model just like they did between 3 and 4.
- 3,978
- Netherlands
- skazz-race
- skazzracer
The cars are less overly tail happy in 6, but if Apex on PC is anything to go by the actual underlying physics is still very much aimed at the same audience as 4.
I've done a few tests between identical road car and track combos on AC and Forza Motorsport 6 Apex and the way cars corner is vastly different.
- 4,382
- 636
- Indiana
- alexschmidt1995
Ha-ha I had to look at the top of the page to remember what thread this was. Kind of getting side tracked, but I'll say I'm enjoying the opinions.
- 1,019
- Germantown WI
- FuzzyFassbender
- FuzzyFassbender
I don't believe these games (rFactor 2 to GT/Forza) prepares anyone to drive a IRL car on the limit. I've been driving (with some track time) and sim racing for years. I don't think sim racing helped with my most recent exotic car experience (or any of my personal cars over the years - Corvettes, T/A, Camaros, current BMW 135i) - 10 laps in Ferrari 458 Italia on the Exotic Racing road course (http://www.exoticsracing.com). Sim racing doesn't feel anything like IRL and vice-versa. True, you could gain some knowledge of a particular cars controls or learn the flow of a particular track but the separation (virtual to IRL) is too much to help anyone drive a IRL car at speed. That's not saying virtual isn't fun but it's not a trainer - at least the sims the average Joe can run on a home computer with the run-of-the-mill controls. The few that have transitioned from virtual to IRL have excelled because of physical and mental talents, and the study/interest in racing - quick reactions, mental concentration and memory more than their virtual gaming experience. On a few occasions I've had a friend with years of IRL racing experience try my sim rig and he fails miserably to lap fast. On the flip side, my sons extensive gaming talents (sim racing not his main focus) doesn't help him drive my car at speed (scares the heck out of me!). Sim racing and IRL racing are vaguely similar, my $.02 for discussion sake.
@FuzzyFassbender -- For sims in general I agree with you. You can practice some individual skills like heel-toe downshifting on a wheel+pedals or maybe feeling out understeer if that's something you haven't experienced before, but you can't really count on a sim to familiarize you with the full range of a car's handling dynamics.
What probably helps the most is to play a simulator that is close enough to real that you can take away a generalized understanding of the physics of handling dynamics. You can learn how oversteer works, what to expect when the weight shifts from axle to axle, and so on. That knowledge is valuable, and you can get a sense for it from the right sim.
Real life is still a different experience, and by respecting that, you can get a feel for the limits of a car without going in over your head. What counts is how you apply your sim experience, and I think that's the case for those virtual-to-IRL successes, not just their general mental acuity.
What probably helps the most is to play a simulator that is close enough to real that you can take away a generalized understanding of the physics of handling dynamics. You can learn how oversteer works, what to expect when the weight shifts from axle to axle, and so on. That knowledge is valuable, and you can get a sense for it from the right sim.
Real life is still a different experience, and by respecting that, you can get a feel for the limits of a car without going in over your head. What counts is how you apply your sim experience, and I think that's the case for those virtual-to-IRL successes, not just their general mental acuity.
- 1,019
- Germantown WI
- FuzzyFassbender
- FuzzyFassbender
Even with the best equipment (wheel, pedals, shifter, full-motion rig, etc.) I don't think the simulation is close enough to IRL to make a racer out of someone from just virtual practice, or allow an IRL racer to feel at home. But as you say there are some techniques that could carry over to some extent.
If using just a gamepad some virtual racing fun can be had but the correlation/feel between the virtual and IRL worlds are miles apart.
I guess I'm getting off topic, enough said, its just my take on virtual vs IRL...
If using just a gamepad some virtual racing fun can be had but the correlation/feel between the virtual and IRL worlds are miles apart.
I guess I'm getting off topic, enough said, its just my take on virtual vs IRL...
- 4,022
- Cincinnati, OH
To each their own I suppose.
More on topic.
Does anyone know how to properly setup triple screens? I've yet to find any bezel or angle corrections in game, but I've seen people with them corrected in videos and such so there must be a way...
- 4,022
- Cincinnati, OH
- 1,248
- South Africa
PS4 version.
- 636
- Indiana
- alexschmidt1995
So I just would like to add, what took me so long to get dirt rally!?!?!
Been playing pcars and assetto corsa for SOOOOOOOOO long, I thought I wouldn't like a "loose gravel" type of game. But oh my goodness, this game is fantastic. Compared to assetto corsa/pcars (I know, not the same type of racing) just about everything is miles and miles better. True, assetto corsa has a better feedback, but I just can't describe how rally makes me feel when everything works, isn't buggy, and all comes together in such an immersive package.
If dirt 4 is as good as rally, they've definitely got a purchase from me. (And I've only tried the mini Cooper on about 20 stages)
Been playing pcars and assetto corsa for SOOOOOOOOO long, I thought I wouldn't like a "loose gravel" type of game. But oh my goodness, this game is fantastic. Compared to assetto corsa/pcars (I know, not the same type of racing) just about everything is miles and miles better. True, assetto corsa has a better feedback, but I just can't describe how rally makes me feel when everything works, isn't buggy, and all comes together in such an immersive package.
If dirt 4 is as good as rally, they've definitely got a purchase from me. (And I've only tried the mini Cooper on about 20 stages)
- 4,382
^^They said it'll have a hardcore physics option for the DR loving crowd.
- 3,600
- Middelburg
- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
wouldn't recognize any buttons at the start so was kind of forced to use the ds4 when asked to press the option button.
That's a negative. Not using VR.
- 636
- Indiana
- alexschmidt1995
- 1,240
- Jounieh
- Georgeagea
Guys, maybe this isn't where i should be posting this but I'm seeking my buddies help and trying to keep the conversation around DR!
I ended the single player championship on Elite 2nd overall! I finished Germany rally 1st. I was driving the VW Polo 4WD (2010s).
I wanted to play again on Elite but this time driving my real life favorite rally memories, the Subaru impreza 2001.
Funnily enough, the 1st rally was Germany! I felt this car is slow compared to the Polo but this is not my problem! My problem is that it seems i can't drive this car fast enough! I ended up 7 sec away from the leader on the 1st stage alone (a short one)! At first i thought "yeah that's normal as this is a slow car, definitely the leader has some kind of a focus or another car"! I was surprised that he has the same subaru 2001!
I'm driving it similarly to what i was driving the polo, yet the times aren't there! What can i be doing wrong? Any tips?
Thanks!
I ended the single player championship on Elite 2nd overall! I finished Germany rally 1st. I was driving the VW Polo 4WD (2010s).
I wanted to play again on Elite but this time driving my real life favorite rally memories, the Subaru impreza 2001.
Funnily enough, the 1st rally was Germany! I felt this car is slow compared to the Polo but this is not my problem! My problem is that it seems i can't drive this car fast enough! I ended up 7 sec away from the leader on the 1st stage alone (a short one)! At first i thought "yeah that's normal as this is a slow car, definitely the leader has some kind of a focus or another car"! I was surprised that he has the same subaru 2001!
I'm driving it similarly to what i was driving the polo, yet the times aren't there! What can i be doing wrong? Any tips?
Thanks!
- 51
- United Kingdom
- colinmac
I'm seeing this also. It's frustrating. I find the best method is to power PS4 off, power wheel off, unplug. PS4 on. Dirt Rally loaded then usb plugged in once it's at the menus.
They've obviously borked something, but when it works, it's just glorious
- 4,382
Comparing real life times with "game times" is something that isn't even a legit comparison to begin with.
- 1,240
- Jounieh
- Georgeagea
Thanks for your immense help!!!
- 3,088
- Sweden
Have you unlocked all the upgrades for the car?
- 4,382
- 1,240
- Jounieh
- Georgeagea
