Dirty air effect in GTS

[Rangeraus]

Simple question. What do you think of it, and what is your experience with it since the last update?

Previously I didn't notice it too much. Whereas now in my experience it is particularly noticeable in qualifying for FIA races. If for whatever reason you catch up to within about 0.5 - 1 second of the car in front, the car now seems to either snap sideways or wash out in medium speed corners where it wouldn't previously, which can be pretty costly.

I also didn't see anything wrong with the previous 'dirty air' effect, but not sure what the rest of GTP thinks.

 

[GTR365]

...'dirty air' effect, but not sure what the rest of GTP thinks.

I have read reports of changed car behavior with respect to slipstreaming, specifically that it is stronger. I never considered that this also could apply to racing situations occurring not in a straight line.

I do little ten tenths driving with vehicles equipped with downforce. Did you notice much adverse aero effect before the update?

 

[Haitauer]

I have noticed ineffective braking coming out of slipstream, but so random I cant tell if dirty air is a thing or its just me..

 

[Rangeraus]

Did you notice much adverse aero effect before the update?

Not a lot. It is quite noticeable now even with Gr4 cars whereas previously it was not (to me).

A second example was the Willow Springs Gr4 Daily Race last week after the update. Was running a rearward brake bias and trailbraking into the uphill left hander. I was following someone within 0.5 seconds through there, did nothing different and the car just snapped into oversteer. Was able to save it but lost about 1 second in the process.

Just wanted to canvas opinions because as a user you cannot really quantify it with values.

 

[Veinz]

I don’t notice it much, if at all. To me it feels like the gain in speed from the slipstream makes a bigger difference than dirty air.

 

[Lion-Face]

My video from the Nations cup race GR4 at Dragons trail. I have set the video to the right spot where you see me follow another car into the first corner and see the dirty air effect on my braking and then if you stick with the lap around to the final corner where it just doesn't want to hold a line.

I also talk about my opinion on it, which is basically, if it is more realistic then I welcome it. But in a game where we are primarily running sprint races, this is going to make battles on track tougher and take longer where we are already time limited for battles. I do like the lessened effect of the slipstream in saying that.

 

[Rangeraus]

My video from the Nations cup race GR4 at Dragons trail. I have set the video to the right spot where you see me follow another car into the first corner and see the dirty air effect on my braking and then if you stick with the lap around to the final corner where it just doesn't want to hold a line.

I also talk about my opinion on it, which is basically, if it is more realistic then I welcome it. But in a game where we are primarily running sprint races, this is going to make battles on track tougher and take longer where we are already time limited for battles. I do like the lessened effect of the slipstream in saying that.

Thanks - At 1.2 seconds that is way too much in my opinion.

As for the realism aspect I posted this elsewhere:

...in F1 before the introduction of DRS, the 'dirty air' effect was so powerful that drivers could often not follow the car in front close enough in corners to make a pass somewhere on-track. This used to happen even if the following car was sometimes up to 2 seconds per lap faster in clear air. So the races were often determined by pit strategy and whichever driver could get the quickest in-lap or out-lap in clear air.

Is that the degree of realism people really want in a racing game?

Some of the current FIA races are uneventful enough as it is; and while I am not advocating something like boost mode as standard, I really don't think this change was needed.

 

[Clean Racer]

I've always observed that there was an aero wash effect in this game. I haven't been in any battles since the update so I will have to check this out.

In my opinion it should vary between the different types of cars. You know, Gr.4 as opposed to SF.

 

[fastone371]

I haven't ran the BMB race with the KTM to earn money recently but I have always noticed huge aero wash with that car in T3. Often you are passing cars thru T3 so when you enter the corner with nobody directly in front you as you drive up on them you can feel the car suddenly start to push real bad. It's very obvious there because the change is all happening during the time frame of a single turn rather than corner to corner or lap to lap.

 

[Z Crazy]

I think they first introduced the effect in GT5 Prologue (I believe) where it was pronounced, but honestly since the introduction of it, it hasn't been so noticeable to me. It may be that I just got used to it, as I'd assume its still in the game, but the effect is likely tuned way down to keep competition close. In all honesty, I think its effect on a GT4 (Gr.4) car should be fairly low anyway.

I think the biggest effect your feeling is the tire model. Which I think still needs a little work... Its good, but I feel like the tires don't fall off in a natural gradient. I feel like they make noticeable steps, which manifests in the middle of a corner (or obviously that's where you will first feel the step). Its not bad, but I feel like that could be improved by halving the difference through the corner or braking zone.

 

[ARTAsean]

I haven't ran the BMB race with the KTM to earn money recently but I have always noticed huge aero wash with that car in T3. Often you are passing cars thru T3 so when you enter the corner with nobody directly in front you as you drive up on them you can feel the car suddenly start to push real bad. It's very obvious there because the change is all happening during the time frame of a single turn rather than corner to corner or lap to lap.

IF (and that’s a big if) what you’re experiencing is GT’s interpretation of Dirty Air, well then it is wildly unrealistic. Only cars that produce huge amounts of downforce suffer from dirty air. You should not be able to feel dirty air in the XBOW which has effectively no aero.

This leads me to believe GTS does not have Dirty Air, and it’s simply indistinguishable from entering the corner too fast due to the Slipstream. I will maintain this opinion until proven otherwise.

 

[Z Crazy]

In last week's daily race at Willow Springs with Gr.4 cars, I had some really close racing at Willow Spring's high speeds and don't remember feeling like that was a factor. I can't remember if there was an update in between now and then, but I have trouble believing dirty air has any significant effect in the game now. I'll keep an eye out to see if I'm wrong, but something tells me its not a factor anymore.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

IMO the loss of grip is too exaggerated now with Real slipstream. Gr.4 cars practically suffer the same penalty as Formula cars in dirty air, which isn't right given these cars don't rely too much on their downforce for grip. As Lion-Face said, it doesn't bode well for close racing in these sprint type events and will just lead to more desparate divebombs from 5 car lengths back.

Why does PD keep changing crucial physics components mid FIA season, I'll never know. And it's not like the changes are more realistic either.

 

[fastone371]

IF (and that’s a big if) what you’re experiencing is GT’s interpretation of Dirty Air, well then it is wildly unrealistic. Only cars that produce huge amounts of downforce suffer from dirty air. You should not be able to feel dirty air in the XBOW which has effectively no aero.

This leads me to believe GTS does not have Dirty Air, and it’s simply indistinguishable from entering the corner too fast due to the Slipstream. I will maintain this opinion until proven otherwise.

I suggest trying the race at BMB in the KTM to feel it for yourself. T3 isn't a corner where you typically push if you know how to drive the track. Upon entering the corner the car is turning just fine but as you rapidly start closing the gap to the car in front you you can see and feel the front of the car suddenly start sliding then after clearing the car you will magically have front grip again. I would be curious to find out what someone elses opinion is of what is going on. Maybe it's my car set up, I would be happy to share with you so you can try it. Let's not forget that NASCAR stock cars would not be considered "downforce cars" either, NASCAR even made rule changes to reduce the effect of front downforce on the cars yet downforce plays a massive role in how fast they go.