Discussion: Drifting, why so popular?

[TheCracker]

Let's look at it this way:

NASCAR is racing, BTCC is racing, one is hot in the US, the other is big in the UK. NASCAR and BTCC is old school racing, many cars racing head to head for victory. On the other hand, rally is definatly racing too, but it's on time, separate racing. Time trails are then racing, of course, since rally is racing.

I would say that racing is racing - but rallying isn't racing - it's rallying.

Ice skating and ice dancing, used as example above. Ice skating, for example 10.000 metre race, is definatly "racing", since it's a competition. However, ice dancing is also a competition. It's racing, then.

Ice dancing might be a competition but its in no way a form of 'racing'

 

[Dave A]

To back TheCracker up, for something to be a competition that doesn't make it automatically a race, by that definition a kareokee copetition could be considered to be a race, it isn't it's competition but it's not a race. A race is about doing something fiorst or within a set time limit ect, you can have a competition for the first person to pull of 3 drifts in sucession, that's a race. But a drift contest itself whereby the drifts are judged on style and angle ect is not racing.

 

[Swift]

They're both forms of ice skating, but ice skating by itself is not a sport; it's an activity. The racing/drifting parallel is that both are forms of driving, but once you start to analyze them, they diverge completely.

Uh, are they both driving? Yes.
Are they both pushing the cars and themselves to and past their limits? Yes.

So the difference is in the application. I'm not saying that people that like racing should automaitcally like drifting or vice versa. What I'm saying is that the activities are using the exact same tools with different applications. So, they are the same. The difference comes in from personal preference and point of view.

 

[Duke]

Let's look at it this way:

NASCAR is racing, BTCC is racing, one is hot in the US, the other is big in the UK. NASCAR and BTCC is old school racing, many cars racing head to head for victory. On the other hand, rally is definatly racing too, but it's on time, separate racing. Time trails are then racing, of course, since rally is racing.

...because time trials, autocross, and rally stages are run against an impartial clock. The impartial clock times can be measured head to head to determine which car/driver got around the course the fastest.

Ice skating and ice dancing, used as example above. Ice skating, for example 10.000 metre race, is definatly "racing", since it's a competition. However, ice dancing is also a competition. It's racing, then.

So, drifting is a competition and therfore, drifting is a type of racing cars.

Nope, sorry, that's logically incorrect. All competition is not racing.

Drifting, like figure skating, ballroom dancing, diving, gymnastics, etc. are scored NOT by an objective, impartial clock, but by subjective points given by human judges. This is a COMPETITION, indeed, but it is not RACING in any form.

Again, I'm not downplaying the skill and effort involved in any of those events. I'm just saying that I'm personally not interested in them because they do not come down to an impartial victory judged by an objective measurement such as time or distance.

 

[Boundary Layer]

Drifting, like figure skating, ballroom dancing, diving, gymnastics, etc. are scored NOT by an objective,

In the tsuiso tournament after the qualifying round the chasing driver does have to more or less keep up with the pace of the leading driver. If the chasing driver manages a pass it's almost a guaranteed win. If the chasing driver spins or falls back for any reason it's almost a guaranteed loss.
So there is _some_ racing aspect to it.

I don't stress this point though, because it is a weak one, and ultimately everything does still come down to a judges decision.

 

[blargonator]

great discussion! everyone!

personally i absolutely love drifting, i love to learn about suspension setups, which is the most important car in keeping a car sliding in a controlled state.

but the main reason i love drifting so much is because of its grassroots nature, it didn't start out as a big dollar motorsport like so many that have succumbed to obscene fees and etc. anyone and everyone can build a car and be somewhat competetive, and a lot of the time the registration fee and etc. isn't even that much in comparison to other motorsports.

one aspect of drifting that i dislike is what you guys have already mentioned, i can't stand that amount of somewhat ignorant enthusiasts who won't stand to listen to any other cars other than the major ones. too many kids throw as many suspension parts are their cars expecting to get a great car.

a writer in grassroots motorsports wrote this in a article a few months, i didn't see the author's name so i can't give him/her the credit they deserve.

"'You can throw all the parts in the world at a car and all you'll end up with is a dented car.' Those wise words were spoken by someone whose body shop professional asked him why his car was full of dents shaped like springs, shocks, and other suspension compenents."

nascar has never interested me, but i respect the fact that people watch it and love it, although i have always been somewhat confused what development comes of nascar, don't they still run leaded fuel and carbs?

one thing i forgot to mention is drifting is becoming far more technical in the scoring area, things such as the driftbox (i believe the makers of the vbox *is that right?* developed it, it allows for a lot more technical information to be shared instead of just visual judging) are being used in competition now.

 

[Evo7GTA]

OK so drifting isn't racing but what about when they do tandem drifting and the point is to stick as close to, or overtake your opponent? Isn't that sort of racing?

 

[3-Wheel Drive]

Nope, sorry, that's logically incorrect. All competition is not racing.

Exactly. That assumption is affirming the consequennce (If P, then Q. Q. Therefore, P).

While all races are competitions, not all competitions must be races.

 

[Dave A]

OK so drifting isn't racing but what about when they do tandem drifting and the point is to stick as close to, or overtake your opponent? Isn't that sort of racing?

It depends, if the car infront get's more points for pulling away from the car behind then there is an element of racing, but the competition it'self still isn't a race. If it's for tandem drifting where more points are scored for them being close together in formation then theres no racing element at all.

 

[TheCracker]

You could perhaps also argue that any 'sport' where there has to be an element of co-operation between competitors isn't competition at all - it's a 'performance'

 

[Duke]

In the tsuiso tournament after the qualifying round the chasing driver does have to more or less keep up with the pace of the leading driver. If the chasing driver manages a pass it's almost a guaranteed win. If the chasing driver spins or falls back for any reason it's almost a guaranteed loss.
So there is _some_ racing aspect to it.

I don't stress this point though, because it is a weak one, and ultimately everything does still come down to a judges decision.

I give you credit for your last sentence, but to counter your first paragraph:

The 'racing' aspect of a pursuit run is still subject to the artificial requirement that both cars must drift. So it still comes down to the finality that the main idea is to drift, not to get from Point A to Point B the fastest. If the fastest car won in time measurement but did not drift the corners, he'd lose.

 

[Boundary Layer]

The 'racing' aspect of a pursuit run is still subject to the artificial requirement that both cars must drift. So it still comes down to the finality that the main idea is to drift, not to get from Point A to Point B the fastest. If the fastest car won in time measurement but did not drift the corners, he'd lose.

Entirely correct. If it came across in my post that I was disputing this point, it was unintentional. Rules state that competitors are to display the full ability of their cars (in terms of drifting) and any failure to do so results in a heavy points deduction. The content of my last post is simply D1GP looking after all the 'what-ifs' that can arise in head to head competition.

If it were entirely about getting from A to B fastest there would be no need for two runs with the competitors exchanging lead and chase roles on each run.

What I had meant to say is that for the chasing driver the objective is to pass the lead driver while drifting, or pressure him into a spin. For the lead driver the objective is to pull away or at least keep the chaser behind him while drifting. However, these objectives are secondary to putting on a good display - and it is the interpretation of this display by the judges that will decide most battles.

 

[Duke]

Entirely correct. If it came across in my post that I was disputing this point, it was unintentional.

No, you were perfectly clear the first time - I should have amplified that I understood your point when I made my comment about your last sentence, where you acknowledge the problems with that argument.

Again, I don't hate drifting itself and I can separate the idiot fanboys from the real enthusiasts.

[edit]

For the record, this is why people hate on drifting (download the 58mb version). Since drifting is popular at the moment it's attracted a large number of idiot fanboys like this. In a couple years, it will have died out as a fad and will return to the core of people who take it seriously.

*WARNING* there is non-AUP-compliant language in this video.

 

[Perfect Balance]

Just to clear things up, from www.Dictionary.com

Racing:

1. a contest of speed, as in running, riding, driving, or sailing.
3. any contest or competition, esp. to achieve superiority.