Do not upgrade to 2.12

[FastAShecK]

breaking any kind of DRM they write into the game save or game data breaches the DMCA, therefore they could still get you for copyright if you were in the USA. not sure about the laws in canada regarding copyright.

i guess it just shows where PD needs to improve the game with regard to customization.

Redistribution (copyright infringement), and it criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices,intended to circumvent measures (commonly known as digital rights management or DRM) that control access to copyrighted works.That is the security preventing you from ripping a disk (to allow taking the copyright material OFF the disk) for redistribution.. That includes CD's, DVD's Blue Ray's etc. They all use DRM to block the ripping of the disk.... To bypass or remove this security measure has been criminalized, NOT hybriding in GT5 That basically is for backing up games and redistributing them (or any copyrighted software) as this breaks copyright laws. Jailbroken PS3's swapping game ISO's is who this applies to...

This has nothing to do with Hybridding in Gt5

 

[hogger129]

Redistribution (copyright infringement), and it criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices,intended to circumvent measures (commonly known as digital rights management or DRM) that control access to copyrighted works.

That is the security preventing you from ripping a disk (taking the copyright material OFF the disk) for redistribution..

That basically is for backing up games and redistributing them (or any copyrighted software) as this breaks copyright laws. Jailbroken PS3's swapping game ISO's is who this applies to...

This has nothing to do with Hybridding

i would disagree simply because of those terms of use policies you have to accept before playing the game. it might be on your machine, but it's still the intellectual property of PD and they can control how you use it.

it's total BS, but that's the way it is... same with movies, music and most other creative works these days. i'm sure PD would allow hybriding it if they were making money off of it.

 

[FastAShecK]

i would disagree simply because of those terms of use policies you have to accept before playing the game. it might be on your machine, but it's still the intellectual property of PD and they can control how you use it.

it's total BS, but that's the way it is... same with movies, music and most other creative works these days. i'm sure PD would allow hybriding it if they were making money off of it.

You DON NOT accept ANY terms of use policy before playing the game for playing the game.....

If you look carefully it is ONLY an ONLINE user agreement (OLUA) you are presented with when loading the game and ONLY the OLUA is indicated on the box itself...

Where is this so called agreement I supposedly agreed to, saying I can't hybrid offline??

When it says "Use of the Playstation Network is subject to blah blah blah" That does not translate to "Use of the Game"....

 

[hogger129]

You DON NOT accept ANY terms of use policy before playing the game for playing the game.....

If you look carefully it is ONLY an ONLINE user agreement (OLUA) you are presented with when loading the game and ONLY the OLUA is indicated on the box itself...

oh, ok. thought it was a terms of use policy or something. yeah anyway, i think there were other ways they could have handled the X100,000s instead of just a one-size fits all patch on hybrids...

 

[FastAShecK]

oh, ok. thought it was a terms of use policy or something.

NOPE, there is No Such Policy for playing the game... IF there was some agreement, it would have to be mentioned somewhere wouldn't it? Would I as a consumer not have the right to be aware of a policy or agreement before I purchase the product? Absolutely, its why the box has fine print. If you SCAN the back of your GT5 box (or ANY PS3 game box) for any indication there is a TOS policy to use the game, but you will NEVER find any. You will however find it marked the online portion of the game has a OLUA... The same when you load the game. It has no mention of any such agreement, but does indicate the online portion of the game is subject to the OLUA. Where is this mysterious agreement I supposedly agreed to?!?!?!?

Its like saying I have to agree to a contract in order to play the CD I just bought on my Stereo, or DVD on my DVD player, Crazy!

 

[FastAShecK]

Ill copy it off the back of the Box so its nice and clear

""""Use of the Playstation Network is subject to the Playstation Network Terms of Service and user licence agreement, and applicable privacy policy. see www.us,playstation.com/support/useragreements"""

There is no TOS for playing the game, its ONLY for access to PSN and for the access to the online portion of the game. If ever in violation of that agreement, they have the right to remove your access to the network (Ban you) Simple as that. This is not a criminal matter, no laws are broken, even when breaching the OLUA, it only risks your access to the network.

 

[hogger129]

Ehh I'm still mad they took away hybrids...

 

[SunsetSailor]

"What's the punishment?"

You have a choice of two punishments.
Lose all your hacked cars, or not be able to go on line anymore.

"Making out that we are criminals is insulting!"

It's the truth, and what can i say.. Truth hurts!

 

[FastAShecK]

Ehh I'm still mad they took away hybrids...

I actually don't mind. I'm on 2.11 and Hybriding is alive. The stuff online was out of control really, and while the normal portion of GT5 online is pretty much the same, its always been a tad drab to me. Hybridding would make it interesting, but with no means to really regulate whats going on, the only option really is to try and stop it all as best they can. I expect another update to get rid of the residual hacks that made it through 2.12. As you saw the online GT5 got flooded with hyper car stupidity, that's what happens, they want GT5 online to represent GT5 as PD sees it, so be it, it is their game after all, I just play it.

 

[hogger129]

"What's the punishment?"

You have a choice of two punishments.
Lose all your hacked cars, or not be able to go on line anymore.

"Making out that we are criminals is insulting!"

It's the truth, and what can i say.. Truth hurts!

Wow... umm, what "truth?"

I actually don't mind. I'm on 2.11 and Hybriding is alive. The stuff online was out of control really, and while the normal portion of GT5 online is pretty much the same, its always been a tad drab to me. Hybridding would make it interesting, but with no means to really regulate whats going on, the only option really is to try and stop it all as best they can. I expect another update to get rid of the residual hacks that made it through 2.12. As you saw the online GT5 got flooded with hyper car stupidity, that's what happens, they want GT5 online to represent GT5 as PD sees it, so be it, it is their game after all, I just play it.

Yep we'll just have to deal with it unfortunately...

 

[Hei]

Sunset Sailor, you must sleep very well at night. Denouncing the evils of Hybrids and such.

 

[FastAShecK]

"What's the punishment?"

You have a choice of two punishments.
Lose all your hacked cars, or not be able to go on line anymore.

Choices choices, you have a choice in the matter, play the game your way or their way. I don't see the punishment in that. I see options....

"Making out that we are criminals is insulting!"

It's the truth, and what can i say.. Truth hurts!

I don't think you have a clear understanding of the discussion at hand. You're so oblivious to the truth its literally "Laugh Out Loud" funny.... That was so lol, it had to be written out....

 

[Lock2Lock]

"What's the punishment?"

You have a choice of two punishments.
Lose all your hacked cars, or not be able to go on line anymore.

"Making out that we are criminals is insulting!"

It's the truth, and what can i say.. Truth hurts!

Hahaha. You have no idea what the patch actually did do you? Besides the point that the realistic/none cheating hybrid cars are gone. What else has happened? The ridiculous hybrids that cheat the PP system are still around. You are actually sitting there thanking PD for what? A half *** update. That's what you thank them for?

Once again, this goes to show you have absolutely no knowledge of what you are talking about.

I don't think you have a clear understanding of the discussion at hand. You're so oblivious to the truth its literally "Laugh Out Loud" funny.... That was so lol, it had to be written out....

So true. He has no idea. Until he sees a 7,000 HP Civic fly by him. Then starts complaining on how PD didn't really fix the problem at all.

 

[Zuel]

Redistribution (copyright infringement), and it criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices,intended to circumvent measures (commonly known as digital rights management or DRM) that control access to copyrighted works.That is the security preventing you from ripping a disk (to allow taking the copyright material OFF the disk) for redistribution.. That includes CD's, DVD's Blue Ray's etc. They all use DRM to block the ripping of the disk.... To bypass or remove this security measure has been criminalized, NOT hybriding in GT5 That basically is for backing up games and redistributing them (or any copyrighted software) as this breaks copyright laws. Jailbroken PS3's swapping game ISO's is who this applies to...

This has nothing to do with Hybridding in Gt5

So you’re saying the manufactures, manufactures model names, Tuner brands, Race car Teams/Cars aren't copyrighted. It’s highly unlikely for these brands within GT5 not to have a copyright law and an agreement which has a clause that will allow pacific changes to be made. Buy producing Hybrids which altering a brand which could be looked at as copyright infringement. Even though the distribution is within the game it could still be looked at a copyright infringement. Yes in the real world we can alter our street cars to our hearts desire. But we are not using another product to showcase another product. Grand Turismo is a product showing other products, in this case automobiles with their associated manufactures, tuner and so on.

This hack has opened the possibilities for Gran Turismo to be used on other platforms just as Forza has. Which is a copyright infringement correct?

 

[DK]

I don't believe it, I don’t bloody believe it. GT5 has brake upgrades in three different models, over 16 tire models along with other bolt on besides the engine modifications? I really don’t give a flying 🤬🤬 about the engine modifications but the brake upgrades and the other tires models would be nice to have. Wow PD really dropped the ball on that one.

I agree with you there, all these extra upgrades would probably put GT5's customisation options on par with GT4's, and even that leaves much to be desired when compared against Forza.

I have tested the (C) and (V) grade tyres, they don't really seem to have that much of an effect.

 

[KiroKai]

So you’re saying the manufactures, manufacture's model names, Tuner brands, Race car Teams/Cars aren't copyrighted? It’s highly unlikely for these brands within GT5 not to have a copyright law and an agreement which has a clause that will allow specific changes to be made. Which would then be breached by producing Hybrids which are altering a brand, which could be looked at as copyright infringement.

Manufacturers within GT5 have a copyright law? I know what you mean but you have a weird way of putting it.

And yeah, you can look at it as copyright infringement. You can also look at modding any other game, popular or not, with content/products of other manufacturers as a copyright infringement. Actually, Ferrari should just stop producing cars today, and make their money by taking each and every game producer, developer, and private game hacker/modder to court for breaching their copyrighted cars.

They wouldn't have much success though. It's all within legal borders as long as the modified content is not sold for money by their creators.

Even though the distribution is within the game it could still be looked at as copyright infringement. Yes, in the real world we can alter our street cars to our heart's desire. But we are not using another product to showcase another product. Grand Turismo is a product showing other products, in this case automobiles with their associated manufactures, tuner and so on.

This hack has opened the possibilities for Gran Turismo to be used on other platforms? just as Forza has. Which is a copyright infringement, correct?

So you're saying the customization options in Forza Motorsport 4 are all copyright infringements to car manufacturers?

Not sure as the sentence in question is weirdly structured and seems incomplete to me. If you do, then you're funny. If you don't, then you've just given the only argument needed to proof your point as a whole as untrue.

 

[FastAShecK]

So you’re saying the manufactures, manufactures model names, Tuner brands, Race car Teams/Cars aren't copyrighted.

Never said that, in fact, the exact opposite....

It’s highly unlikely for these brands within GT5 not to have a copyright law and an agreement which has a clause that will allow pacific changes to be made.

Duh obviously they have them since a registered trademark implies this already...

Buy producing Hybrids which altering a brand which could be looked at as copyright infringement. Even though the distribution is within the game it could still be looked at a copyright infringement.

NO, not even close, First off all that is altered is performance and sound, as already mentioned in the thread if you stick a B18 in a Veyron the Veyron engine stays the same, the VISUAL appearance of the car HAS NOT been alterred, and even though we may share hack info, it is in NO WAY distribution until a copy of the game disk is distributed..

Yes in the real world we can alter our street cars to our hearts desire. But we are not using another product to showcase another product. Grand Turismo is a product showing other products, in this case automobiles with their associated manufactures, tuner and so on.

The protected representation a Manufacture has in GT5 is VISUAL representation.... We have not pulled off man logos and swapped them, we have not altered the appearance of any bands product...

This hack has opened the possibilities for Gran Turismo to be used on other platforms just as Forza has. Which is a copyright infringement correct?

How does hacking the GT5 save game open the possibilities for GT5 to be used on other Platforms??? I'm curious how you draw that conclusion.

It's not copyright infringement UNTIL you make a copy and distribute it.

Having the ability to do something is not illegal until you act..

Ill show how your logic fails... I have a gun and the ability to do allot of crime with it, like Rob a Bank, Am I already guilty of robbing the bank because I have a gun? The gun is registered and legal BTW..


Batter Up!!!

 

[Voodoovaj]

This discussion is entertaining, but full of assumptions and conjecture.

Unless there is a copyright lawyer in the mix or you've had experience with these issues at a liability level, your assumptions are a little off base.

LUCKILY, I belong to the latter group.

On the legality of it all. We have all entered into an agreement that restricts us from modifying the game. So yes, we have breached that agreement by modding. That is illegal. However, it is not illegal in the same way that murder is illegal. No one is coming to arrest you and the other party is not obligated to press charges.

Having the right to act is not the same as having a legal obligation to act. They have exercised their right.

(conjecture warning:idea:💡)
HERE IS WHERE IT GETS STICKY -> A case can be made that modders have not altered the game. Nothing was added or removed from the code. The data that was played with outside the program was the same data that can be altered inside the program. PD limited access to these features, but they were active in the software that we all purchased. "Hacking" is not a great term in this debate. Lets not forget that the servers reacted very well to modded cars, which strengthens the argument.

The bottom line is that the modders discovered that there was a better game under the hood of GT5 and all they wanted was for that game to be properly presented to us. It's what we paid for. Hopefully, there is a 2.13 patch that puts this issue to rest or they flesh out these features for GT6.

 

[FastAShecK]

On the legality of it all. We have all entered into an agreement that restricts us from modifying the game. So yes, we have breached that agreement by modding. That is illegal. However, it is not illegal in the same way that murder is illegal. No one is coming to arrest you and the other party is not obligated to press charges.

Ive entered no such agreement until I go online. PD Has no such agreement only a OLUA, and Sony only has a System Software (firmware) agreement you accept when booting the PS3 the first time and during updates it may be presented...

There IS NO DRM on the Save Game, the PS3 will copy it to a USB for me with NO hack at all...

If there was an agreement from PD to use GT5 offline you should be able to find it and post a link, until anybody does this I stand by THERE IS NONE! PD ONLY has a OLUA, simple as that......

HERE IS WHERE IT GETS STICKY -> A case can be made that modders have not altered the game. Nothing was added or removed from the code. The data that was played with outside the program was the same data that can be altered inside the program. PD limited access to these features, but they were active in the software that we all purchased. "Hacking" is not a great term in this debate. Lets not forget that the servers reacted very well to modded cars, which strengthens the argument.

This is SOOOO on Point, and its basically what I mean when I say "Hybriding as it is in GT5""" Ive edited the save game with only code I source from the game, key points edited the Save Game NOT the Game, and only with code originating from the game...

Downloading movies and cracked games, or ripping your copy of GT5 into a ISO and making it available for download, THESE are things against the law, but done all the time and never (for the most part) prosecuted.

What we are doing in GT5 is perfectly legal, thank you very much...

 

[xXKingJoshXx]

I don't venture into the Gran Turismo forums very much, so sorry if this has been recently asked somewhere, but I have a question that no one seems to have the answer to. What happens when you try to mod a car after you do the update? Does it just do what 2.12 did to the already hacked cars? Or will they be hacked until PD releases another update?

Still looking for an answer to this...

 

[FastAShecK]

Still looking for an answer to this...

It will revert them (for the most part as some lil things have snuck through) there is a code to reset the parts or something of the sort..

It is 100% not as simple as redoing your hack car after 2.12 until 2.13 wipes it again. The game will reset your cars over and over and over.

Keeping in mind SOME things have made it to 2.12 so its allot of grey area

 

[xXKingJoshXx]

Ok, thanks! That's all I needed to know.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Anyone else looks a bunch of random car pictures in the garage list? If I click on a car in the garage it looks fine, same car settings and paint job, etc. The car is just missing from the garage list.

I have completely deleted the GT5 game data, re-updated+installed and reinstalled my car packs and stuff too. Does the same thing each time : / Kinda annoying.


Jerome

 

[FastAShecK]

Anyone else looks a bunch of random car pictures in the garage list? If I click on a car in the garage it looks fine, same car settings and paint job, etc. The car is just missing from the garage list.

I have completely deleted the GT5 game data, re-updated+installed and reinstalled my car packs and stuff too. Does the same thing each time : / Kinda annoying.


Jerome

Click on "Generate Thumbnails for all cars" opition from the options menu you get hitting triangle on any car in your garage. Then swap from the premium list to the standard list and back, should have the cars reappear on the garage list. Sometimes a car will still be invisible, just go to that car and click on the "generate thumbnail" option, but only for that car, swap from premiums to standards and back (or vise versa) and it should reappear.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Great, I'll try that out, thanks man.


Jerome

 

[Sonygamer455]

Great, I'll try that out, thanks man.


Jerome

One thing I should point out is you may have to exit the garage then go back into it after creating thumbnails.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Got busy yesterday so I was unable to try the tires Sonygamer455. Sorry. I will definitely do it today though.

 

[ImaRobot]

On the legality of it all. We have all entered into an agreement that restricts us from modifying the game. So yes, we have breached that agreement by modding. That is illegal. However, it is not illegal in the same way that murder is illegal. No one is coming to arrest you and the other party is not obligated to press charges.

Having the right to act is not the same as having a legal obligation to act. They have exercised their right.

I actually stated that from the beginning of my argument. Whats funny is that I got attacked, and was told I was making up the definition to suit my needs. lol.

I think its because my view of not supporting the hybrids, while your view supports hybrids.

 

[FastAShecK]

I actually stated that from the beginning of my argument. Whats funny is that I got attacked, and was told I was making up the definition to suit my needs. lol.

I think its because my view of not supporting the hybrids, while your view supports hybrids.

Maybe you need to read a bit more, you would see I clearly replied to his comment expressing NO knowledge of such a binding agreement to play GT5 as there is none, and I welcome anybody to provide this agreement.... Impossible because it doesn't exist, people have confused it with the System Software (firmware) agreement, and with the Online User Agreement, NOBODY has ANY link or quote or anything at all to prove such an agreement exist, because it does not....

Remember PD still wants ME to buy the game, why would they scare off a customer with a STUPID contract? Anybody tell you about some contract when you bought the game? When exactly is presented, and please don't point out the OLUA again.....

 

[ImaRobot]

Maybe you need to read a bit more, you would see I clearly replied to his comment expressing NO knowledge of such a binding agreement to play GT5 as there is none, and I welcome anybody to provide this agreement.... Impossible because it doesn't exist, people have confused it with the System Software (firmware) agreement, and with the Online User Agreement, NOBODY has ANY link or quote or anything at all to prove such an agreement exist, because it does not....

Yes I know, but I wasnt talking about any of that. I said many times do what you want offline. My concern is what people do online, using the term illegal to describe that. Thats when you told me that I'm making up the definition.

Whats funny is that definition you posted from the Merriam-webster dictionary actually shows the definition I used, even though you said that what you posted was the only definition there.

Either way I'm not trying to argue with you, I was just laughing about how I got attacked when using the word illegal, even though I wasnt using it as the way you thought I was using it.