Do we care for modeled, covered engine bay (ala Forza's AutoVista)

[Freeman_Cruz]

I've probably only touched the Veyron twice in GT5 since I have no interest in standard cars (for the most part), but I know the wing changes position for premium cars (I remember the premium SLR's air brake working quite well), but I don't think standards ever had that

Active aerodynamic elements were introduced already in GT4 and of course remain in the standards models of gt5.

 

[gtracedriver1]

Absolute waste. It looks great in auto vista only, if it is gameplay graphics then it make sense. PD will have detailed cockpit only in GT7 for PS4. Dynamic weather, day/night on all tracks. That is what I am expecting.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Modeling the interior of the engine bay and the trunk is important to recreate properly car damages.

Ding ding.

Whether that level of modeling is made to interact with an improved damage model now, or in a few years, it will need to be done eventually, especially when one considers what's going on with that WRC Subaru. Besides, given most modern car's underhood love of plastic, I can't imagine it takes half as much time to model as something like the car's interior does.

Modeling bits and pieces under/inside the body can also lend itself to potential benefits with regards to visual modifications. I'm wondering when we'll see both games take a more dedicated approach to representing things like the weight reductions visually.

Okay, I suppose there is one problem modeling under-hood; engine swaps could get dicey. Of course, GT would need those first...

 

[Ferrari458Italia]

They had that already in GT4 (maybe GT3 as well but I can't think of any examples right now), and it remains the same in GT5 with standard cars. I'm 100% the Veyron wing moves up once you reach like 70 mph, then it lowers all the way down except for a crack once you reach like 150 mph or something like that. As for the air brake, like I said I'm not completely sure about that one but I think I do recall it working. I'm going to check when I get home for my own interest, but I'm sure someone else here knows in the meantime.

Just checked a youtube video and it looks like it's there. but it just doesn't look right for some reason.. I think it might be the speed that the spoiler slaps up for the air break. in reality the thing goes up as soon as you hit the brake when you're trying to slow down at a certain speed.. but it seems like in here it's taking its sweet time lol
and that sound!!! ROFL

 

[ShiftingGears]

Delete.

 

[vk56dehan]

Okay, I suppose there is one problem modeling under-hood; engine swaps could get dicey. Of course, GT would need those first...

Engine swaps are a possibility I believe, maybe even mentioned in an interview with kaz if I recall, but IF they were to incorporate something similar to the autovista....they could just make that option unavailable to the engine bay after a swap. But I would rather PD focus in other areas personally.

 

[TBR 427]

In 10 years all games will have that feature and GT7/GT8 will not, among cars being modeled taking into account having a good damage model. That means the current GT6 cars aren't as future-proof as Forza's.

The same goes about modelling tracks without laser scanning them, besides Bathurst which is the only one we aren't sure of. Someday all GT5/GT6 tracks (besides that one) will have to be remade because PD chose not to use future proof methods.

Actually you're wrong on both points.

The main graphical points for cars for the next generation or so will be shaders and polygonal modeling; GT5 and 6 have the best car shaders around (what makes car paint look like car paint and not plastic) and model workflow (adaptive tessellation is the way forward, and from here on out model quality is simply a slider that can be adjusted based on available processing power), so technically PD is ahead, and with those two points being far and away the most important, it's not likely to change.

Engine, boot and door hinges are all extremely simple in comparison, because it either carbon fiber covers (simple geometry I could make in my sleep), a load of floating geometry (again, very simple to make), or simple mechanisms (not very hard).



And laser scanning isn't the simple method of making/updating tracks you're making it out to be. There's still a lot of work that needs to be done - it's not like they scan the track and just put that on the disc like you seem to think.

 

[kolio]

If PD is smart they will keep the car count for GT7 under a couple of hundreds like T10 does now, so they can focus on making a truly next gen game. And truly next gen means "yes, they should make all the car models as detailed and complete as T10 can".

Also it's not only the engine bay in autovista, the trunk, the interior, working doors practically everything is modelled.

Will you buy it first hand if they do this?

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

In 10 years all games will have that feature and GT7/GT8 will not, among cars being modeled taking into account having a good damage model. That means the current GT6 cars aren't as future-proof as Forza's.

The same goes about modelling tracks without laser scanning them, besides Bathurst which is the only one we aren't sure of. Someday all GT5/GT6 tracks (besides that one) will have to be remade because PD chose not to use future proof methods.

umm Porsche Unleashed had it over 10 years ago, not to the current level of detail but non the less it was there and at first glance was oh this is cool then 5 seconds later it is old news.

I still say T10s best game yet was Forza 2 after that they added cars, tracks, events and gimmicks but the game itself is not even close to what they had in 2 so in future proofing they seem to be loosing what made the game great and adding gimmicks instead.

 

[ironman44321]

In 10 years all games will have that feature a "nd GT7/GT8 will not, among cars being modeled taking into account having a good damage model. That means the current GT6 cars aren't as future-proof as Forza's.

The same goes about modelling tracks without laser scanning them, besides Bathurst which is the only one we aren't sure of. Someday all GT5/GT6 tracks (besides that one) will have to be remade because PD chose not to use future proof methods.

It doesn't matter if a stupid feature is in one game or in every game, it's still a stupid feature. Why would you want them to focus on that so that 6 people can flip open a hood twice a year?

And I'm sorry, what? GT has easily the most accurate track models of any console game. "Thorough data capturing and GPS surveying enable us to recreate a true-to-life circuit scenery and track, with a precision reaching approximately 1 cm or less in deviation."

 

[Prototyp3]

Autovista was a feature that I am jealous of in Forza 4.

These games are for car enthusiasts and petrol heads (among others) and being able to essentially going to a "car porn mode" and oggle at cars and mess about with doors and trucks and hoods and see components is something that we will naturally find interesting.

I don't play Forza but I can recognize good ideas when I see them. Turn 10 has some really great ideas and my personal guess is that it's a mix of passion and being the underdog as well as a western take on racing/driving games that steers them to included new and interesting modes.

PD seems to rest on their laurels more often then not. I love them for what they've done and I grew up with them, but sometimes I just shake my head at the excruciatingly slow pace the GT series evolves at. They should do what the Japanese have always done, take other people's ideas/inventions and make them bigger/smaller, i.e. improve them...shamelessly.

I would love for PD to rip off many ideas that Forza has, it would make GT as a series more complete, more interesting and in the end more fun.

 

[another_jakhole]

Just checked a youtube video and it looks like it's there. but it just doesn't look right for some reason.. I think it might be the speed that the spoiler slaps up for the air break. in reality the thing goes up as soon as you hit the brake when you're trying to slow down at a certain speed.. but it seems like in here it's taking its sweet time lol
and that sound!!! ROFL

The Veyron is still a car that I've yet to drive. Can't wait to try it in GT6 (interior view).

As for the sound, did you miss that annotation where it says it's not stock, it's fully tuned and the lack of any updates to the sounds, considering that the video was posted two days after GT5 released? The jab at the "horrible" sound is ROFL worthy?

Autovista was a feature that I am jealous of in Forza 4.

These games are for car enthusiasts and petrol heads (among others) and being able to essentially going to a "car porn mode" and oggle at cars and mess about with doors and trucks and hoods and see components is something that we will naturally find interesting.

I don't play Forza but I can recognize good ideas when I see them. Turn 10 has some really great ideas and my personal guess is that it's a mix of passion and being the underdog as well as a western take on racing/driving games that steers them to included new and interesting modes.

PD seems to rest on their laurels more often then not. I love them for what they've done and I grew up with them, but sometimes I just shake my head at the excruciatingly slow pace the GT series evolves at. They should do what the Japanese have always done, take other people's ideas/inventions and make them bigger/smaller, i.e. improve them...shamelessly.

I would love for PD to rip off many ideas that Forza has, it would make GT as a series more complete, more interesting and in the end more fun.

Yeahhh, AutoVista was something I was hoping GT5 would get before I even knew about FM4 having a feature like that. If only we can choose to keep the top up or down for convertibles, I'll be satisfied in the gameplay category since I don't use Photo Mode often. I don't even know if we get to choose to have the top up or down in Photo Mode. It's unfortunate that we can't even open the doors in Photo Mode or open the "hood" of MR cars since the detail is there anyway.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Ahh yes. Let's add a feature for more people to whine and say "Oh why didn't PD add this car in, why are they wasting their time on this feature". NO. I want PD to focus only on modelling more cars, because it takes them awhile to even model some cars that everybody wants. It's perfect for Photo mode, yes, but I feel that it's a waste of resourse IMO.

And please don't tell me "Oh, so you rather quantity over quality because at least other racing games are featuring the ins and outs of the car"... Really, it'll just create more drama for folks here to say PD is taking too long or lazy in other areas. Sounds is one of them already, so PD needs to focus on that and others excluding this since it adds to core of the game.

 

[mister dog]

If PD is smart they will keep the car count for GT7 under a couple of hundreds like T10 does now, so they can focus on making a truly next gen game. And truly next gen means "yes, they should make all the car models as detailed and complete as T10 can".

Also it's not only the engine bay in autovista, the trunk, the interior, working doors practically everything is modelled.

Will you buy it first hand if they do this?

Yes, it seems like i'm one of a few that prefers quality over quantity
If they would release GT7 with let's say 300 cars, that means they will have had time to revise all the flaws with GT (i don't think people will accept robot AI, PS2 era models and sounds + that boring event system to return on a PS4 no?).

 

[mister dog]

Autovista was a feature that I am jealous of in Forza 4.

These games are for car enthusiasts and petrol heads (among others) and being able to essentially going to a "car porn mode" and oggle at cars and mess about with doors and trucks and hoods and see components is something that we will naturally find interesting.

I don't play Forza but I can recognize good ideas when I see them. Turn 10 has some really great ideas and my personal guess is that it's a mix of passion and being the underdog as well as a western take on racing/driving games that steers them to included new and interesting modes.

PD seems to rest on their laurels more often then not. I love them for what they've done and I grew up with them, but sometimes I just shake my head at the excruciatingly slow pace the GT series evolves at. They should do what the Japanese have always done, take other people's ideas/inventions and make them bigger/smaller, i.e. improve them...shamelessly.

I would love for PD to rip off many ideas that Forza has, it would make GT as a series more complete, more interesting and in the end more fun.

Now that's an anwer!

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It's hilarious that people don't want to see PD do a better job of creating realism or better yet wasting energy, yet they just gave us a damn moon rover and called it a day. Now I know the rover doesn't quantify into as much wasted energy as autovista but still...

 

[jimipitbull]

I would love for PD to rip off many ideas that Forza has, it would make GT as a series more complete, more interesting and in the end more fun.

GT Horizon 👎

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

GT Horizon 👎

T10 were in the shadows for that, it wasn't even their game really. So that wouldn't be a worry

 

[jimipitbull]

I don't really understand this thing where some people just want GT to be the same as Forza.

You wouldn't ask your mum to grow a beard, would you? Or would you ask Ford to build a Corvette?

 

[mister dog]

I don't really understand this thing where some people just want GT to be the same as Forza.

You wouldn't ask your mum to grow a beard, would you?

That's a bit of a ridiculous comparison isn't it
We mean that PD should copy the aspects of Forza that are better; and there are many believe me.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I don't really understand this thing where some people just want GT to be the same as Forza.

You wouldn't ask your mum to grow a beard, would you? Or would you ask Ford to build a Corvette?

I thought they did it just had a modular V8 and was mid engine . Also does your mom casually grow beards on demand? Quite weird you'd use that analogy.

Serious note though, I don't see how many want it to be Forza-GT nor do I understand your obvious bias against FM. Many people (myself) yelled at PD about copying T10 with the level bull crap, and it's going away. However, there are features outside of the minor useless stuff t10 gives that PD could learn from. Like a more liberal and encompassing car selection, I think they are finally getting the hang of it and that is a great thing for us all.

 

[jimipitbull]

Serious note though, I don't see how many want it to be Forza-GT nor do I understand your obvious bias against FM. Many people (myself) yelled at PD about copying T10 with the level bull crap, and it's going away. However, there are features outside of the minor useless stuff t10 gives that PD could learn from. Like a more liberal and encompassing car selection, I think they are finally getting the hang of it and that is a great thing for us all.

Not biased at all against Forza per se, but I wont purchase an xbox. Not unless they become more liberal and encompassing with peripheral support. And they also need to improve from their 54% hardware failure rate.
That said, 14 tracks, 2 of which are test tracks, is pathetic.

I really only dig at Forza to balance the amount of dribble aimed at GT.

Both games are good. The best available for their respective consoles. Both of them aren't perfect either.
The racing game genre will become too narrow if all games had the same features. Diversity is a good thing.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Not biased at all against Forza per se, but I wont purchase an xbox. Not unless they become more liberal and encompassing with peripheral support. And they also need to improve from their 54% hardware failure rate.

Already know about it and actually agree with you, haven't owned nor played on an Xbox 360 of my own for 5 years now and I wont be playing the next one for various reasons and will just go to my friends house and use his. When he gets the XBox one.

That said, 14 tracks, 2 of which are test tracks, is pathetic.

That's debatable since GT has equally crippling factors as well, I rather see people look at the entire sim console arena objectively.

I really only dig at Forza to balance the amount of dribble aimed at GT.

Dribble? I've seen both sides have equal flame and for me personally I've already hit out at FM5 along with GT6...

Both games are good. The best available for their respective consoles. Both of them aren't perfect either.
The racing game genre will become too narrow if all games had the same features. Diversity is a good thing.

Agreed. However, I don't think that both having the same features or similar would harm the overall perspective. They already have very similar things, how they go about doing it (execution) is where they will obviously differ and be able to see the disparity.

 

[Bluntified]

That's a bit of a ridiculous comparison isn't it
We mean that PD should copy the aspects of Forza that are better; and there are many believe me.

But, you copy, copy, copy, what's going to distinguish the two games? This will just turn out like the the age old iPhone VS Samsung debates, one sues the other one for being too similar.

I don't think they should copy anything, rather see what improvements others have made and try to come up with something on their own. I don't want a clone. If Forza has Auto Vista, GT should think of something like a virtual walk through garage, so rather than focusing on one car, your focus is on your whole fleet!

 

[mister dog]

If Forza has Auto Vista, GT should think of something like a virtual walk through garage, so rather than focusing on one car, your focus is on your whole fleet!

You know i was already secretly hoping for that exact same feature before GT5 came out.

Not copying everything ofcourse, but frankly i wouldn't mind if we had 2 near perfect racing games on both consoles. Then everyone would be catered for

 

[colj00]

If PD is smart they will keep the car count for GT7 under a couple of hundreds like T10 does now, so they can focus on making a truly next gen game. And truly next gen means "yes, they should make all the car models as detailed and complete as T10 can".

Also it's not only the engine bay in autovista, the trunk, the interior, working doors practically everything is modelled.

if PD ported the premium cars straight over from GT5 and 6 i would not have a problem at all, the current gen premium models are far beyond acceptable.

 

[Magic Ayrton]

if PD ported the premium cars straight over from GT5 and 6 i would not have a problem at all, the current gen premium models are far beyond acceptable.

Totally agree..

 

[TokoTurismo]

It's hilarious that people don't want to see PD do a better job of creating realism or better yet wasting energy, yet they just gave us a damn moon rover and called it a day. Now I know the rover doesn't quantify into as much wasted energy as autovista but still...

Because right now. Livery Editor is still missing, engine sounds still needs sorting out, cars that are STILL missing that people want into the series and probably others as well. As much as I'll want a Autovista-like feature, don't you think it's better to improve in those areas first?

And for the moon one, that's just PD's way of wanting to be different from other racing games. I don't see what's the problem of wanting something like that in a game, not like you're forced to use it?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Because right now. Livery Editor is still missing, engine sounds still needs sorting out, cars that are STILL missing that people want into the series and probably others as well. As much as I'll want a Autovista-like feature, don't you think it's better to improve in those areas first?

And for the moon one, that's just PD's way of wanting to be different from other racing games. I don't see what's the problem of wanting something like that in a game, not like you're forced to use it?

Wow, is that you Toko? If PD keep to their historical model of doing everything in house with a smaller staff than their competitors, then a resource trade off is a necessity. In which case, I'd say no to modeling engine bays on most cars. Do it on a few iconic cars, new and classic and call it a day. That way they can advertise it, it'll look cool, but it won't be a massive diversion of modeling resources away from car creation.

 

[TheDabbinDave]

i think its more important for its implications on damage modeling...if the engines are not modeled...there is no way PD is ever going to allow a hood to become damaged enough (fly off even) that i can see into the engine bay...

MotorStorm had an good damage system, they didn't fully model the nuts, bolts, clamps, chalk marks, and oil drips in the engine bay.