Do you believe in God?

[arora]

Oblivious to what?

That everyone is tired of your purposely misrepresentation of a religion?(which has nothing to do with whether 'god' exists or not) not to mention plagiarism?

Since the response was to a 911 site cross being placed in a museum, I'll try to stay on topic. It's an artifact of an event and nothing more, why not have it in a museum?

 

[Tic Tach]

That everyone is tired of your purposely misrepresentation of a religion?

A "misrepresentation" is your opinion. The moment anyone displays the uglier parts of any ideology, the complaints of: "those aren't true __________s" come rolling in.

Since the response was to a 911 site cross being placed in a museum, I'll try to stay on topic. It's an artifact of an event and nothing more, why not have it in a museum?

Geesh; tough crowd. I felt that what I said about "crosses" dovetailed in quite nicely and appropriately to the article. *shrug*

 

[dylansan]

Lots of artists paint pictures or write stories containing death, violence, and. Do you think those people are praising death and violence, or are they using their works to symbolize the greater meaning of those ideas?

 

[Tic Tach]

Lots of artists paint pictures or write stories containing death, violence, and. Do you think those people are praising death and violence, or are they using their works to symbolize the greater meaning of those ideas?

I'm sure each artist would have their own ideas about what their "painting" is about, but what is the "greater meaning" behind the ubiquitous crucifix?

I would never want to be a member of a group whose symbol was a guy nailed to two pieces of wood. (George Carlin)

 

[dylansan]

Sacrifice, probably. You'd have to ask them yourselves. But the point is they don't worship the cross, they don't thank the cross for causing pain and death. It just symbolizes their beliefs.

 

[arora]

A "misrepresentation" is your opinion. The moment anyone displays the uglier parts of any ideology, the complaints of: "those aren't true __________s" come rolling in.

There is nothing ugly about a cross, it's a reminder to some that one man sacrificed himself for all the bad that people do.

Geesh; tough crowd. I felt that what I said about "crosses" dovetailed in quite nicely and appropriately to the article. *shrug*

Except for the fact that you did not say it. And no, it was not an appropriate response, it was a troll response. However you interpret the cross has no barring on it's significance in a museum.

 

[Tic Tach]

There is nothing ugly about a cross...

And this is my entire point; that so many can be lulled into thinking just that about a torture device.

...it's a reminder to some that one man sacrificed himself for all the bad that people do.

That too is my point, which is best illuminated by Hitchens here. Please watch. I fully understand that particular idea/myth that you've spelled out, but I think it's untrue. Besides, if he came alive again to go to heaven with his dad for eternity, what did he really sacrifice? Is it a sacriice if you get what you've given, back?

Why can't this god just forgive? Why does he require bloodshed? It all sounds so barbaric.

 

[Villain]

So would a libertarian atheist, as most of you are, be okay with the cross shaped beam in a government funded museum?

Well, I dont pretend to be a libertarian - really more of a conservative independent. Anyhoo....

Let the steel cross be displayed. They aren't going to put in on the roof and turn the museum into a church. It's a historical artifact relevant to the event. It's not some random cross either, it's one that served as a symbol to workers and volunteers who were trying to dig people out of the rubble. I read that they want to put the steel cross in a room with other stuff and a nice placard explaining its meaning. It's not like it's going to be on an altar.


As to Tic Tach -- sheeeeeeesh... You're like an Evangelical Atheist.

 

[Pyle_PMG]

This is all I will say. I do not believe in God anymore. I gave up believing because I'm a misunderstood, lonely human being. I'm often ignored and treated like 🤬 by everyone except my family and a few friends. My parents say I am part of God's plan. Well I say God can go rot in a wheat field. My life has been nothing but misery, and I continue a descent to absolute insanity. No one should ever go through this, what I am going through. This is the worst I have ever felt in my life. I know my arguement shouldn't be fueled by emotion but this is a notable exception in my opinion. There either is no god, or god clearly doesn't give a 🤬 about me or my family. I am not afraid of anything. Feel free to rip my opinion to shreds, I can't feel worse than I do now. In my mind the line between logical and illogical has disappeared, I know the truth about my whole family. Why I never met my Nana till I was 5, why half my family never has met me. And its not even my fault I know I'm different, I know now

 

[Flynn77]

Keep your chin up, VANDENAL. Just because you stopped believing in God doesn't mean God stopped believing in you. All it takes is grace through faith. Our reward lies on the other side, and this life is not even a fraction of what awaits us.

 

[Tic Tach]

Our reward lies on the other side, and this life is not even a fraction of what awaits us.

It's an incredible con job, when you think of it, to believe something now in exchange for life after death. Even corporations, with all their reward systems, don't try to make it posthumous. (Gloria Steinem)

 

[Flynn77]

It's an incredible con job, when you think of it, to believe something now in exchange for life after death. Even corporations, with all their reward systems, don't try to make it posthumous. (Gloria Steinem)

Yours must not be a very happy existence. I feel for you.

 

[Tic Tach]

Yours must not be a very happy existence. I feel for you.

Nope, life is pretty good actually. Why do you feel that it "must" be unhappy?

 

[dylansan]

I can not vouch for Tic Tach's happiness, but I am an atheist and I am perfectly happy without needing to think there is an afterlife awaiting me. It makes the decisions I make here on Earth so much more important and meaningful, and I know when I die I won't have to worry about whether I regret any decisions I made or anything. What happens, happens and as long as I am proud of my actions, I can die happy.

 

[Flynn77]

Nope, life is pretty good actually. Why do you feel that it "must" be unhappy?

Tearing down the beliefs of others is fun for you?

 

[arora]

No one is asking you to believe in anything you don't want to Tic Tach, that is the beauty of freedom, your constant pursuit to take that away from others is troubling.

 

[Villain]

I can not vouch for Tic Tach's happiness, but I am an atheist and I am perfectly happy without needing to think there is an afterlife awaiting me. It makes the decisions I make here on Earth so much more important and meaningful, and I know when I die I won't have to worry about whether I regret any decisions I made or anything. What happens, happens and as long as I am proud of my actions, I can die happy.

I agree completely. There is a peace in knowing that this life, here now, matters and that it's up to me to make the most of my time. Promises of a happier afterlife are no reason to deprive one's self of the best things this world has to offer.

No one is asking you to believe in anything you don't want to Tic Tach, that is the beauty of freedom, your constant pursuit to take that away from others is troubling.

That avatar of your's is troubling.

 

[arora]

 

[Mr. CoolFiat]

This is all I will say. I do not believe in God anymore. I gave up believing because I'm a misunderstood, lonely human being. I'm often ignored and treated like 🤬 by everyone except my family and a few friends. My parents say I am part of God's plan. Well I say God can go rot in a wheat field. My life has been nothing but misery, and I continue a descent to absolute insanity. No one should ever go through this, what I am going through. This is the worst I have ever felt in my life. I know my arguement shouldn't be fueled by emotion but this is a notable exception in my opinion. There either is no god, or god clearly doesn't give a 🤬 about me or my family. I am not afraid of anything. Feel free to rip my opinion to shreds, I can't feel worse than I do now. In my mind the line between logical and illogical has disappeared, I know the truth about my whole family. Why I never met my Nana till I was 5, why half my family never has met me. And its not even my fault I know I'm different, I know now

Alex. I have never met you but I know we are good friends. I know you told me about your depression. I never took it EXTREMELY seriously, just took it like one of those normal depressions that happen during puberty, but.... I want you to know that there are lots of people that love you and care for you. Never ever harm yourself.
Here is a song to cheer you up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPrnduGtgmc

 

[Pyle_PMG]

Thanks Mr. CoolFiat, you are a great friend. Video was funny. There are many things that us humans will never have answered in our life time. But isn't the ability to question and create your own answers part of what makes us unique and yet makes us the same? Whether you believe in God in an attempt to give answers or don't believe and try to find the answers from within, we are all human beings. We should treat everyone kindly, for it is all our uniqueness which makes us similar. Sure we all have differences in ideology, but our biology is the same. If everyone could put those little differences to the back-burner the world would be a much better place. The same people who are the problem are those who are the solution. We are all equal, and if god doesn't want me to believe that, then I won't believe in god. Whether your Asian, American, Indian etc. we are all equal, no one is worse or better than you. For people to believe in a Dictator figure like god is entirely up to them. Does god exist? We don't know.

 

[hambone8611]

Thanks Mr. CoolFiat, you are a great friend. Video was funny. There are many things that us humans will never have answered in our life time. But isn't the ability to question and create your own answers part of what makes us unique and yet makes us the same? Whether you believe in God in an attempt to give answers or don't believe and try to find the answers from within, we are all human beings. We should treat everyone kindly, for it is all our uniqueness which makes us similar. Sure we all have differences in ideology, but our biology is the same. If everyone could put those little differences to the back-burner the world would be a much better place. The same people who are the problem are those who are the solution. We are all equal, and if god doesn't want me to believe that, then I won't believe in god. Whether your Asian, American, Indian etc. we are all equal, no one is worse or better than you. For people to believe in a Dictator figure like god is entirely up to them. Does god exist? We don't know.

That’s one of the wisest posts I’ve read here, I can tell you’re the type of person I would enjoy knowing I hope your life exceeds all of your wildest dreams

 

[Mr. CoolFiat]

That’s one of the wisest posts I’ve read here, I can tell you’re the type of person I would enjoy knowing I hope your life exceeds all of your wildest dreams

We all hope that, hambone.

 

[Pyle_PMG]

Thanks hambone8611, you don't know how much it means to me to hear someone say that. For me I don't need the strength of God to get me through my depression, I need to know that my friends, family, and good people like you support me and would do their best to help me fight through it. Because they know I would do all in my power to help them through their struggles no matter how big or small they are. Whether its giving them a gameshark that they've been looking for, or trying to help them when they're down. I learned what my evil Uncle is like and how he kicks people when they're down basically. I don't want to be like that. Without the kind people at GTP and my awesome friends and loving family, I probably wouldn't be here today. Maybe there is the devine, maybe its not God, maybe this person is a human being we can all look up to, one who we can follow by example. If I can get through this my goals in life when achieved will be worth more to me. Its not the finish, but the journey to get there that counts

 

[Sam48]

Why can't this god just forgive? Why does he require bloodshed? It all sounds so barbaric.

You clearly don't know much about christianity then.

 

[Villain]

Why can't this god just forgive? Why does he require bloodshed? It all sounds so barbaric.

I just noticed this point of yours. Wow. All the priests I've heard at mass have ever talked about was forgiveness, turning the other cheek, loving thy neighbor, etc. etc.

Swing and a miss, pal. Swing and a miss.

 

[Dan_]

It's amazing how a primitive tool of torture can be viewed as something good. This shows how most people just don't think, and simply jump on whatever bandwagon is rolling along their particular point in time. Christianity still practices virtual cannibalism by eating their god's body and drinking his blood during their rituals. They also venerate his execution by placing its depiction in a prominent position in their sanctuaries. Worshipers even go so far as to wear a miniature of the murder weapon as a necklace. Then, they have the temerity to complain about the violence depicted on television.

Have you ever gone to a church?

What you call 'primitive tool of torture' represents and synthesizes the sacrifice made by a man on behalf of his brethren, the cross represents a recognition of love and compassion, the group of traditions that you mistakenly tag as 'canibalism', actually are a simbolic representation of god and how he is essential to one's spiritual completion, like bread or wine... bone and flesh...

I'm not a believer ( although raised as catholic ) but I'm not oblivious to the traditions and their actual meaning as you appear to be. You need better argumentation than taking things literally to convince ( or even question ) people, you know....

 

[Moot]

Thanks Mr. CoolFiat, you are a great friend. Video was funny. There are many things that us humans will never have answered in our life time. But isn't the ability to question and create your own answers part of what makes us unique and yet makes us the same? Whether you believe in God in an attempt to give answers or don't believe and try to find the answers from within, we are all human beings. We should treat everyone kindly, for it is all our uniqueness which makes us similar. Sure we all have differences in ideology, but our biology is the same. If everyone could put those little differences to the back-burner the world would be a much better place. The same people who are the problem are those who are the solution. We are all equal, and if god doesn't want me to believe that, then I won't believe in god. Whether your Asian, American, Indian etc. we are all equal, no one is worse or better than you. For people to believe in a Dictator figure like god is entirely up to them. Does god exist? We don't know.

I disagree with your sentiment detail. Being like someone else biologically is not a logical reason to get on with them or to achieve an all encompassing bond of humanity.

But to have the hope that everyone can get on with each other is fine.

Biology comparisons would be a form of bias. It implies there would be grounds for legitimate conflict if other beings had different biology.

(conflict is essential for nature anyway for biological equals or otherwise.
It's just not very pleasant or nice. But it's inevitable. But one can strive to make it less sufferable.)

 

[PeterJB]

I disagree with your sentiment detail. Being like someone else biologically is not a logical reason to get on with them or to achieve an all encompassing bond of humanity.

But to have the hope that everyone can get on with each other is fine.

Biology comparisons would be a form of bias. It implies there would be grounds for legitimate conflict if other beings had different biology.

(conflict is essential for nature anyway for biological equals or otherwise.
It's just not very pleasant or nice. But it's inevitable. But one can strive to make it less sufferable.)

It would be kind of hard to have no bias against the biologically different as some are intent on eating you...

 

[DLR]

You can't prove he exists just as you can't prove he doesn't exist. All I'm saying is you gotta have some ego to bet your eternal life that he doesn't exist when modern day scientists with cutting edge technology are still trying to fight without success a 2000+ year old book.

Choose wisely

 

[ChaosStar79]

I can't believe this thread really exists on a racing forum, even in the opinions section. lol. That said, my answer is a big No. I spent the first 30 years of my life seeking god only to discover that there is no god to seek. It was the best and most liberating moment of my life.

Of course no one can disprove the existence of a god, but we can use logic and reasoning to see that all religions claim to be path to god and they all claim absolute divine mandate. So then either they are all lying or god only gave the true message to one sect and decided to let the others fend for themselves until it spread to them. Personally I think that is a crap move for any deity, to only reveal itself to a small piece of the population while the rest of the world is lost and filled with false religions that also claim authenticity. I refuse to believe that any one group has ever cornered the market on the path to god. There are just too many plot holes in this line of thinking for me.

How is any person supposed to make the right decision? What if you are a great person who was born into a family where they practice the wrong religion? Are you damned for doing what you have been taught is right, and not converting to the "true" religion when you are presented the chance? They all claim to be authentic, so why would you ever convert? What kind of free will do we really have if we must come to one specific conclusion to reach god? etc, etc, etc,......

The only conclusion I find rational is that all religions are all man made for the purpose of changing the world around them in one way or another. People have made them and people have taken them as fact. There was a time where man surely needed fiery spirits in the heavens and the threats of a gods' wrath to keep them in line, but I like to think the day will come when we can move past believing old stories that our rational minds know are impossible and simply treat each other with decency. Not for promise of heaven or threat of hell, or any other afterlife scenario, but just because we know better now.

But we all have to decide for ourselves.