Do you believe in God?

[fitftw]

Why do you believe God's existence is impossible? In other words, why don't you believe God's existence is possible? How can you be so sure, without proof one way or the other?

Maybe some of us come hard-wired to believe one way or the other and we'll never be swayed no matter what. Maybe you're all figments of my imagination.

Solipsism: Knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure. The external world and other minds cannot be known, and might not exist outside the mind. As a metaphysical position, solipsism goes further to the conclusion that the world and other minds do not exist

 

[TankAss95]

Agnosticism IS wishy-washy. Why be committed to one side or the other? That's how religious wars occur. If everyone agreed that there may or may not be a god, we'd all play nice with each other and nobody would kill over their beliefs.

Why not believe them to exist? I'll say it's unlikely that unicorns exist, but I'm not completely ruling out the possibility, because it's impossible to know for sure. Just like god. Why is it such a bad thing to be non-commited towards a yes or no belief in god? I choose to straddle that line. I live my life by having one foot on both sides, about everything.

And yes, yin and yang. Everything has a light and dark side. E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G. On/off. Light/dark. Yes/no. Good/evil. Show me one man and I will find you his exact opposite. That's life.

The opposite of agnosticism is atheism and religion.

Absolute good does exist, but absolute evil is impossible:
"Put it more simply still. To be bad, he must exist and have intelligence and will. But existence, intelligence and will are in themselves good. Therefore he must be getting them from the Good Power: even to be bad he must borrow or steal from his opponent. And do you now beg to see why Christianity has always said that the devil is a fallen angel? That is not a mere story for the children. It is a real recognition of the fact that evil is a parasite, not an original thing. The powers which enable evil to carry on are powers given it by goodness. All the things which enable a bad man to be effectively bad are in themselves good things-resolution, cleverness, good looks, existence itself. That is why Dualism, in a strict sense, will not work." - http://onedaringjew.wordpress.com/2010/10/23/yin-yang-dualism-cs-lewis-and-christianity/

 

[homeforsummer]

Why do you believe God's existence is impossible? In other words, why don't you believe God's existence is possible? How can you be so sure, without proof one way or the other?

Because there isn't a shred of evidence or proof to suggest he exists. Everything we "know" about God comes from an ancient book and word of mouth. What we "know" about God is essentially all in our heads, and his existence is no more possible to me than a Santa Claus who can zip around the Earth on Christmas Eve delivering presents his elves have made in the space of 24 hours.

I do not believe God exists, which makes me an atheist, not an agnostic. As before though, I'm absolutely capable of being proven wrong, and were someone to somehow prove tomorrow that he exists, I'd accept that he exists. As it is: zero probability.

 

[fitftw]

Every time I get into a religious/philosophical discussion, nothing ever gets solved. It's a lot like getting drunk. I get really into it, and then I get so trashed I puke everywhere and then say I'll never drink again. But eventually I drink again...there is no point to this debate. What are we aiming for, trying to solve, working towards? A world full of people just like you or me? We don't want that. We need different people. They give us reason to argue, to fill our insignificant lives with some sense of value or meaning until we finally die. It's madness.

I can push my 50/50 beliefs on everyone, but it won't matter. People won't change their beliefs. They'll simply say I am wrong, that it's one way or the other.

 

[homeforsummer]

What are we aiming for, trying to solve, working towards? A world full of people just like you or me? We don't want that. We need different people. They give us reason to argue, to fill our insignificant lives with some sense of value until we finally die. It's madness.

And yet, you advocate a world where everyone is agnostic, where nobody has anything to debate. A world with no flavour.

 

[TankAss95]

Because there isn't a shred of evidence or proof to suggest he exists. Everything we "know" about God comes from an ancient book and word of mouth. What we "know" about God is essentially all in our heads, and his existence is no more possible to me than a Santa Claus who can zip around the Earth on Christmas Eve delivering presents his elves have made in the space of 24 hours.

I do not believe God exists, which makes me an atheist, not an agnostic. As before though, I'm absolutely capable of being proven wrong, and were someone to somehow prove tomorrow that he exists, I'd accept that he exists. As it is: zero probability.

The existence of a deity isn't even a question for me. I always have believed in a God for as long as I can remember, from that I branched into Christianity.
I find simple things that prove the existence of a deity. The whole fact that the universe is comprehensible, and that we are conscious. Think of Einstein's formula, you could write it on the back of a post stamp. Everything works in such amazing complexity, yet simplicity, and we can observe it and even attempt to understand it.
The best way I describe God as is almighty. He is above everything else, including our comprehension. At the final strand in the cause and effect chain I see an almighty, infinite power.

To me atheism seems to simple. People often say there can't be a God because bad things happen, yet because we can even tell good from bad convinces me that God exists.

 

[fitftw]

And yet, you advocate a world where everyone is agnostic, where nobody has anything to debate. A world with no flavour.

And yet, you advocate a world where everyone is atheist, where nobody has anything to debate. A world with no FLAVOR

If everyone agreed with one belief, whether agnostic, atheist, or religious, there'd be no debates.

 

[TankAss95]

Every time I get into a religious/philosophical discussion, nothing ever gets solved. It's a lot like getting drunk. I get really into it, and then I get so trashed I puke everywhere and then say I'll never drink again. But eventually I drink again...there is no point to this debate. What are we aiming for, trying to solve, working towards? A world full of people just like you or me? We don't want that. We need different people. They give us reason to argue, to fill our insignificant lives with some sense of value or meaning until we finally die. It's madness.

I can push my 50/50 beliefs on everyone, but it won't matter. People won't change their beliefs. They'll simply say I am wrong, that it's one way or the other.

That's just a cop out. I could say that everything is pointless to discuss, but nothing worthwhile would come out of it.

I was just pointing out the fact that it is impossible for something to be pure evil. Existence is good in itself, along with knowledge, so pure evil can't exist. I have never, and never will, meet any thing that is simply pure evil.

And you could argue that evil itself doesn't exist - just lack of good. Cold doesn't really exist, it's just a lack of temperature (bad example because absolute zero is real lol).

 

[fitftw]

That's just a cop out. I could say that everything is pointless to discuss, but nothing worthwhile would come out of it.

What is worthwhile to discuss, if the end result for all of us is death? Is anything worthwhile? If so, why? We're just going to die. Nothing truly matters or means anything. We can argue until we're blue in the face, but in the end it will mean nothing.

And evil does exist. Everyone has the ability to be evil. I could go smash some cars outside right now. That would be pretty evil, right? To you, that would just be a "lack of good" which doesn't make any sense.

 

[TankAss95]

What is worthwhile to discuss, if the end result for all of us is death? Is anything worthwhile? If so, why? We're just going to die. Nothing truly matters or means anything. We can argue until we're blue in the face, but in the end it will mean nothing.

And evil does exist. Everyone has the ability to be evil. I could go smash some cars outside right now. That would be pretty evil, right? To you, that would just be a "lack of good" which doesn't make any sense.

I never said that evil didn't exist, I said that you could look at it in that way.
And my point was that ABSOLUTE evil doesn't exist.

And are you nihilistic? That's what I was saying all along, if you think that nothing really matters, then everything is permissible. If you believe that life is pointless (what your basically saying) then what's the point of you being good?

Please reconsider your views. As I've mentioned before it's potentially dangerous.

 

[fitftw]

I never said that evil didn't exist, I said that you could look at it in that way.
And my point was that ABSOLUTE evil doesn't exist.

And are you nihilistic? That's what I was saying all along, if you think that nothing really matters, then everything is permissible. If you believe that life is pointless (what your basically saying) then what's the point of you being good?

Please reconsider your views. As I've mentioned before it's potentially dangerous.

What's dangerous? Yes everything is permissible. As I've said before, I believe in doing to others what you'd want done to you, aka karma. I don't want my car smashed up, so I don't smash other peoples' cars, etc. I like being "free" even though life is pretty pointless. If something is taken or stolen from me, I tend to believe there must be a reason for it. That way I don't get so mad where I want to do evil things.

 

[TankAss95]

What's dangerous? Yes everything is permissible. As I've said before, I believe in doing to others what you'd want done to you, aka karma. I don't want my car smashed up, so I don't smash other peoples' cars, etc. I like being "free" even though life is pretty pointless. If something is taken or stolen from me, I tend to believe there must be a reason for it. That way I don't get so mad where I want to do evil things.

That's a more positive view. 👍
But do you mind me asking why you believe in karma?

 

[fitftw]

I believe in karma (an eye for an eye) because it's only fair. If you do something terrible, it's only fair that something terrible befalls you. If you cheat on your wife, it's only fair that she leaves you or cheats on you. I guess you could say I don't believe in karma so much as I believe in fairness/equality.

For some reason though I believe abortion is not evil. Go figure.

We're all hypocrites about some things.

 

[TankAss95]

I believe in karma (an eye for an eye) because it's only fair. If you do something terrible, it's only fair that something terrible befalls you. I believe my life is the result of the consequences of bad things I've done.

I believe that karma is fair, but I don't believe that it actually exists.
It doesn't take long in life to realise that some bad people in life go far when some really good people lose out in things. You can see this in business etc.

So do you believe in some kind of power that makes things go wrong to people that have done wrong, or do you just like the concept?

 

[fitftw]

It could be a higher power, or it could just be coincidence Because some bad people do get away with things, like you said in business/government.

 

[TankAss95]

It could be a higher power, or it could just be coincidence Because some bad people do get away with things, like you said in business/government.

So you say there is no proof of God, but then you say you believe in Karma but you don't have no evidence for it and admit that it could be a coincidence.

In the past you have said that Christianity is just for people who seek comfort, perhaps I could say the same thing about you and Karma? You believe that bad things happen to bad people, obviously this could just be yourself trying to find comfort?

And no, I'm not calling you weak or anything, I'm trying to make you realise that what you are saying doesn't make sense. Your criticism is flawed. You say religion is dangerous, yet you have a philosophy that one could see as a religion or as a parallel with religion yourself.

Explain.

 

[HP]

And my point was that ABSOLUTE evil doesn't exist.

Messrs Bundy (a really nice guy), Gacy (the class clown), Gien ( voted most likely to eat wimmin bits & also most "stabby"), Bryant (unlimited ammo achievement unlocked), and the spiffingly angelic Mengele (Dr who?) & Adolf "6 million kills platinum trophy unlocked" Hitler might have something to say about that Tank...

Absolute evil exists alright, and it passes you daily and says hi, it smiles & waves & is the "nicest person" you ever did saw...

Did I forget Rose & Fred "We will babysit for you, go & have fun" West? Oops....

 

[fitftw]

It is comforting to believe that those who have done wrong to me will have wrong done to them. I can sit back and just hope something bad happens to them. When my Honda was stolen a few years ago, the only thing that calmed me down was the thought of the thief burning alive or drowning or catching AIDS...Then I started thinking maybe the thief needed my car more than I did. Nobody steals a car unless they are really poor, right? You don't see hard-working middle-class people stealing Hondas.

I'm not religious whatsoever. Believing in karma doesn't mean there's automatically a god controlling all of this. Nature controls itself.

 

[homeforsummer]

And yet, you advocate a world where everyone is atheist, where nobody has anything to debate. A world with no FLAVOR

I don't advocate that at all. People are free to their own beliefs and I've never suggested otherwise - unlike yourself.

Shows how much you've been paying attention.

To me atheism seems to simple.

Atheism is a very broad term.

Given how confused you've got and how often you've massively misunderstood the vast majority of scientific discussion that's gone on here, my own take on the origins of the universe and so-forth can hardly be summed up by you as "simple".

 

[TankAss95]

Messrs Bundy (a really nice guy), Gacy (the class clown), Gien ( voted most likely to eat wimmin bits & also most "stabby"), Bryant (unlimited ammo achievement unlocked), and the spiffingly angelic Mengele (Dr who?) & Adolf "6 million kills platinum trophy unlocked" Hitler might have something to say about that Tank...

Absolute evil exists alright, and it passes you daily and says hi, it smiles & waves & is the "nicest person" you ever did saw...

Did I forget Rose & Fred "We will babysit for you, go & have fun" West? Oops....

I understand why someone would get angry when I say that absolute evil doesn't exist, but please read the link I provided above.

It is comforting to believe that those who have done wrong to me will have wrong done to them. I can sit back and just hope something bad happens to them. When my Honda was stolen a few years ago, the only thing that calmed me down was the thought of the thief burning alive or drowning or catching AIDS...Then I started thinking maybe the thief needed my car more than I did. Nobody steals a car unless they are really poor, right? You don't see hard-working middle-class people stealing Hondas.

I'm not religious whatsoever. Believing in karma doesn't mean there's automatically a god controlling all of this. Nature controls itself.

People do bad things for a gain of something good.
A man could steal for his own wealth. Wealth is good, but stealing is bad. The man gaining good (wealth) doesn't justify that he has done wrong (stealing). So we judge good and bad on what outweighs the other. Obviously we could see the man stealing money from a wealthy drug dealer to help families who have been affected with drug abuse as a good thing, yet we would see the man stealing from a charity collection for him to buy alcohol as bad.
And I could use that kind of thought to justify my own actions. I could go out and chop off a guy's arm and then say to myself "perhaps that arm was troubling that man". It just doesn't work.

And the main point here is you are saying that you believe that nature has a sense of right and wrong. A kind of consciousness if you like. This would mean that nature is itself intelligent, or a being is controling nature, or that everything has a plan or meaning. Cant you see why you are being hypercritical? Your thoughts are no different than someone who believes in a deity.

And if "the only thing you know is that you don't know anything", then you are saying that you know something in that very statement, therefore it doesn't make sense. If you say that you don't know anything, why do you know that the statement is true? And further more, why should I trust anything that you say?

 

[TankAss95]

Given how confused you've got and how often you've massively misunderstood the vast majority of scientific discussion that's gone on here, my own take on the origins of the universe and so-forth can hardly be summed up by you as "simple".

It was a philosophical statement.

 

[fitftw]

And if "the only thing you know is that you don't know anything", then you are saying that you know something in that very statement, therefore it doesn't make sense.

That's not what I said. I said "all I know is that I don't know nothing" which when you break it down means that I know some things, obviously as we all do, but they intrinsically mean nothing. Nothing matters, eventually...We put meaning/value/purpose into things as a means to avoid killing ourselves. Why are we afraid to kill ourselves?

And you're right, my views are no different than those who believe in a deity. My views are also no different than those who are not sure, or don't believe. I just don't want to be part of the problem. I push that stuff so far down so I don't get caught in the perpetual war between religion/atheism. I am neither for nor against either. I am simply agnostic.

 

[homeforsummer]

It was a philosophical statement.

Which is why I added that atheism is a very broad term.

You suggest it seems too simplistic, but compared to what? I'm very much interested in science and as someone who is scientifically minded, I find things like creation theory laughably simple compared to the scientific theory.

 

[TankAss95]

That's not what I said. I said "all I know is that I don't know nothing" which when you break it down means that I know some things, obviously as we all do, but they intrinsically mean nothing. Nothing matters, eventually...We put meaning into things as a way to avoid killing ourselves.

And you're right, my views are no different than those who believe in a deity. I just don't want to be part of the problem. I push that stuff so far down so I don't end up caught in the war between religion/atheism.

It doesn't change the fact that the statement doesn't make sense. The first half ("all I know is that") is incoherent to the second half ("I don't know nothing"). What exactly is "nothing"? What is it that you don't know, and why do you know that you don't know it?

And I don't want to be part in any problem, that's just life. I try to support my views, and oppose what I think is wrong, and I think you are wrong by calling Christianity wrong.

 

[fitftw]

I'm not calling it wrong, I'm just not calling it right If there is a god, I don't think he'd approve of one group arguing with another group over who is right. He'd probably find that very childish...A kind and just god should have accepted by now that there will always be people who just don't believe in him, and not punish them for it. Therefore, why do people still try to convert others?

This is why no matter what I happen to believe on any given day (sometimes I do, sometimes I don't) I will always claim to be agnostic.

 

[TankAss95]

Which is why I added that atheism is a very broad term.

You suggest it seems too simplistic, but compared to what? I'm very much interested in science and as someone who is scientifically minded, I find things like creation theory laughably simple compared to the scientific theory.

I believe that everything was created by a deity. As I said the fact that we are conscious and can admire and attempt to understand the universe is enough evidence to convince me.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "creationist". If you mean someone who rejects evolution and supports creation of every species of life, then to be quite honest I don't want to be part of that discussion. I simply don't know enough to argue for/against evolution. I tried and failed, and I don't want to annoy the GTP community any more than I already am.

 

[TankAss95]

I'm not calling it wrong, I'm just not calling it right If there is a god, I don't think he'd approve of one group arguing with another group over who is right. He'd probably find that very childish...A kind and just god should have accepted by now that there will always be people who just don't believe in him, and not punish them for it. Therefore, why do people still try to convert others?

This is why no matter what I happen to believe on any given day (sometimes I do, sometimes I don't) I will always claim to be agnostic.

I thought you said religion and money was the source of all evil (or something like that).

And God has shown us evidence through Jesus Christ. To be quite honest I'm not really good at debating stuff like that, but I recommend you look at the historic evidence for Jesus, then watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gefA3f0n3OY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Azuremen]

nd you're right, my views are no different than those who believe in a deity. My views are also no different than those who are not sure, or don't believe. I just don't want to be part of the problem. I push that stuff so far down so I don't get caught in the perpetual war between religion/atheism. I am neither for nor against either. I am simply agnostic.

For a person that doesn't want to be involved, you sure to manage to insult both parties quite a bit.

Just food for thought.

 

[TankAss95]

For a person that doesn't want to be involved, you sure to manage to insult both parties quite a bit.

Just food for thought.

👍
And sorry for the countless double posts I've done these last 2 days.

 

[fitftw]

I always manage to insult everybody somehow. That's why it's best if I stay out of everything, but for some reason I just can't put down a good fight, or case for my position rather.