Do you believe in God?

[PeterJB]

As for Hitler (or any other person) being absolute evil: Yes he did horrific things. But he does have a positive accomplishment or two, the Autobahns for example. The German highway system so impressed Eisenhower that he modeled the US interstate highway system on it.

👍

He also loved animals and strongly opposed smoking. Nobody is ever pure good or pure evil. Gandhi and Mandela had their flaws, and Hitler and Stalin had their good parts.

 

[TankAss95]

At no point do I say that Hitler was good or that any of his acts were justified in anyway. He was a sickly wicked man, but pure evil is impossible. Existence and knowledge are traits in which themselves are 'good', so for anything to be purely evil, he/it cannot have the capacity or power to be evil in any way. Also a bad thing has the potential to do good acts, which in itself is good.
That's why dualism fails. If there were two powers in the world (bad and good) then the bad power must borrow from the good power, and if the bad power borrows from the good power then he must be less superior. Therefore, the two powers are not equal.
I am not really good at explaining this kind of stuff, but C. S. Lewis explains it in his usual clarity in 'Mere Christianity'.

 

[BobK]

At no point do I say that Hitler was good or that any of his acts were justified in anyway. He was a sickly wicked man, but pure evil is impossible. Existence and knowledge are traits in which themselves are 'good', so for anything to be purely evil, he/it cannot have the capacity or power to be evil in any way. Also a bad thing has the potential to do good acts, which in itself is good.
That's why dualism fails. If there were two powers in the world (bad and good) then the bad power must borrow from the good power, and if the bad power borrows from the good power then he must be less superior. Therefore, the two powers are not equal.
I am not really good at explaining this kind of stuff, but C. S. Lewis explains it in his usual clarity in 'Mere Christianity'.

Is that the same hogwash you cited earlier?

Why must a bad power borrow from a good power? Sounds like you're defining "bad" as "partly good, therefore not really bad".

As usual, we get bad conclusions from bad premises.

 

[TankAss95]

Why must a bad power borrow from a good power?

I have explained above.

Sounds like you're defining "bad" as "partly good, therefore not really bad".

Nope. Something is bad because the bad things that it does outweighs the good things, or it uses good things to do bad things. I said that absolute evil (or rather absolute 'bad') can't exist.

What I am saying is that ABSOLUTE bad has to use things which are good to be bad, so therefore it is impossible to be absolutely bad (with no good).

I don't believe in two 'equal powers', I was saying why I thought dualism is false.

 

[El]

I disagree. There is nothing in biblical text suggesting that such a thing is right or encouraged.

...

This does occur with religion. But it's no different than saying, "This is the most frightening thing about human beings, they blur the line between good and evil, and commit heinous acts, etc., we should do away with ALL of them". Just because some atrocious acts are carried out in the name of religion does not mean that the pursuit of religious beliefs is inherently of that same nature.

Yes it is different. Your missing the point. Humans do blur the line, but not on their own. They do this because of ignorance and delution, such as religion. And I never metioned the bible?

 

[Bobalob]

I don't think good or bad mechanics even matter, it's the motive.

 

[Exorcet]

I have explained above.

So did BobK

A conclusion based on false premises. Specifically, that existence intelligence and will are all in themselves good. In fact they are neutral; neither good nor evil.

How is it that those three things are inherently good?

 

[TankAss95]

So did BobK



How is it that those three things are inherently good?

In the concept of dualism there is no such thing as neutral, unless the two powers of good and evil are equal in one condition.
Given that these two powers are both infinite, i cant understand how something could be neautral at all.
And to your question, with those tree things a particular thing/being has the potential to be good, therefore that is good in itself.

 

[fitftw]

This is NSFW and I can't directly post the video here due to foul language against the rules, but it's George Carlin about religion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

 

[Exorcet]

In the concept of dualism there is no such thing as neutral, unless the two powers of good and evil are equal in one condition.
Given that these two powers are both infinite, i cant understand how something could be neautral at all.

Infinity + -Infinity = 0

And to your question, with those tree things a particular thing/being has the potential to be good, therefore that is good in itself.

By that logic, they are evil too.

 

[TankAss95]

Infinity + -Infinity = 0

By that logic, they are evil too.

I don't see bad like I see good. I can understand what you are saying. I see bad as being 'less than good'. It is when the amount of 'less that good' things about that person/power outweigh the good things about that good person/power that we consider bad.
So therefore I believe absolute good is possible in concept.

 

[BobK]

I have explained above.

And I pointed out the fault in your "explanation", which as usual you ignored.

 

[Exorcet]

I don't see bad like I see good. I can understand what you are saying. I see bad as being 'less than good'. It is when the amount of 'less that good' things about that person/power outweigh the good things about that good person/power that we consider bad.
So therefore I believe absolute good is possible in concept.

What do you base this on?

 

[RBW]

There really isn't bad. Like Einstein explained, there is no darkness. Just the absence of light. Same with evil, absence of good.

 

[TankAss95]

What do you base this on?

Observation and thinking.
I believe there is a absolute moral law. By not obeying this you will be less than good. I believe that it is impossible to be absolutely evil, but possible for a being to be absolutely good.

I was explaining why I think dualism is impossible.

EDIT: And BobK, could you explain to me what the flaw is please? I don't really understand what you are saying.

 

[RBW]

What about the cold? It's just the absence of heat.

 

[niky]

So, would your absolutely good ideal pull the switch in the trolley problem or not?

Summary of the trolley problem (from the other thread): There's a bomb on a runaway trolley heading towards a city of 100,000. You have the ability to stop it only by pulling a switch that will shunt it towards an abandoned mine manned only by a lone guard. Do you pull the switch?

What would an absolutely good entity do? What would an absolutely evil entity do? What makes each decision fully good or fully evil?

 

[marluxiaXI11]

What about the cold? It's just the absence of heat.

Cold is the absence of energy.

 

[TankAss95]

So, would your absolutely good ideal pull the switch in the trolley problem or not?

Summary of the trolley problem (from the other thread): There's a bomb on a runaway trolley heading towards a city of 100,000. You have the ability to stop it only by pulling a switch that will shunt it towards an abandoned mine manned only by a lone guard. Do you pull the switch?

What would an absolutely good entity do? What would an absolutely evil entity do? What makes each decision fully good or fully evil?

It's really hard for me to answer this question. As I believe in the Christian God, I believe he is separate from him creation (not pantheism), yet can adjust the laws of nature or add/subtract matter/energy. This is how I see how the miracles in the Bible were conducted. I hope this makes sense.

So, it depends on the absolute 'good' power. I honestly don't know.

 

[homeforsummer]

What would an absolutely good entity do?

Derail it like a boss. Everybody lives

 

[niky]

That'd be cheating.

It's really hard for me to answer this question. As I believe in the Christian God, I believe he is separate from him creation (not pantheism), yet can adjust the laws of nature or add/subtract matter/energy. This is how I see how the miracles in the Bible were conducted. I hope this makes sense.

So, it depends on the absolute 'good' power. I honestly don't know.

If God is omnipresent and omniscient, as the Biblical God is supposed to be, he cannot be fully separate from Creation.

It's a simple question. Would God sacrifice the innocent to save others? See the Flood. See the Killing of the Firstborn. Both attributed to God. Both involved the death of children, innocents. Granted, by the doctrine of Original Sin, no child is fully innocent, but is any child wicked enough to merit killing in a situation where another's life is not being threatened?

One who is absolutely good and absolutely powerful would not allow such a situation to come to pass in the first place.

 

[superbike81]

No, not until irrefutable evidence is presented. "God" walking up to me and introducing himself would be acceptable.

Organized religion has ruined the whole "God" concept. However, I do believe that organized religion is still needed in our current state of society, as for people of faith, it acts as an excellent tool for controlling people and keeping them in check. I hope one day our society can advance beyond this ancient thought process and become truly intelligent and self-sufficient.

That's all I'll say on this topic, I avoid religious discussion like I avoid spiders, at all costs. Just wanted to chime in.

 

[BobK]

Observation and thinking.
I believe there is a absolute moral law. By not obeying this you will be less than good. I believe that it is impossible to be absolutely evil, but possible for a being to be absolutely good.

I was explaining why I think dualism is impossible.

EDIT: And BobK, could you explain to me what the flaw is please? I don't really understand what you are saying.

In your own words, "I have explained above".

 

[fitftw]

Where did God come from? Did he just create himself? How is that possible? Who created God? Who created God's creator? etc.

The Christian answer-guide to that question is absolutely nonsensical: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c039.html

There is no real answer apparently. Christians say he is the uncreated creator. Well you know, that doesn't make any damn sense at all. Christians are on drugs I tell you.

"Because we live in the dimension of time, it is impossible for us to fully understand anything that does not have a beginning and an end. Simply accept that fact, and believe the concept of God's eternal nature the same way you believe the concept of space having no beginning and end—by faith—even though such thoughts put a strain on our distinctly insufficient cerebrum."

Yes, on drugs. Sorry but my faith meter has always been and always will be BROKEN. At least with space, we have the possibility of one day finding out just how far it goes. Not the same with God. Unless when our spaceships can travel thousands of miles an hour and maybe crash into heaven or something.

 

[TankAss95]

Christians are on drugs I tell you.

Your an ass, really. You really are.

And we accept that God is infinite. He created time itself, he is almighty.

May I ask the same question to you? Why something rather than nothing.

 

[nitrorocks]

Where did God come from? Did he just create himself? How is that possible? Who created God? Who created God's creator? etc.

The Christian answer-guide to that question is absolutely nonsensical: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c039.html

There is no real answer apparently. Christians say he is the uncreated creator. Well you know, that doesn't make any damn sense at all. Christians are on drugs I tell you.

"Because we live in the dimension of time, it is impossible for us to fully understand anything that does not have a beginning and an end. Simply accept that fact, and believe the concept of God's eternal nature the same way you believe the concept of space having no beginning and end—by faith—even though such thoughts put a strain on our distinctly insufficient cerebrum."

Yes, on drugs. Sorry but my faith meter has always been and always will be BROKEN. At least with space, we have the possibility of one day finding out just how far it goes. Not the same with God. Unless when our spaceships can travel thousands of miles an hour and maybe crash into heaven or something.

I don't get why you hate us so much. You say irrelevant things and no one nor Christians or the atheists on this thread like you. You said you left.

 

[fitftw]

Yeah, well I don't like humanity, but I was born involuntarily.

 

[TankAss95]

Yeah, well I don't like humanity, but I was born involuntarily.

Go to Mars then.

 

[fitftw]

I would love to if NASA came to my door and asked me to take part in a space program.

 

[nitrorocks]

I would love to if NASA came to my door and asked me to take part in a space program.

You wouldn't get very far......