Do you believe in God?

[Touring Mars]

Oh yes, I completely agree that there are two sides to it. Good and evil maybe?

It could be interpreted that way, although my point is more that good and evil are relative concepts when measured against the fundamental driving force of survival, which is evolution. We humans are certainly capable of 'good' and 'evil' in an absolute (i.e. non-relative way), but evolution isn't - it's completely neutral... Before I get too far off topic, I'll respond to the rest of your post in a more relevant thread

I respect your views and thank you for your reply.

👍 Ditto

 

[mindwise]

Hi Pako,

Do we have cloths from Christ? Maybe, Google the Shroud of Turin.

i'd say the Turin shroud is the 'piltdown man' of christianity. all the evidence points to it being a hoax (carbon dating initiated by the catholic church for example.)
That said, if that hoax is anything, it is certainly not 'disproof' of Christ.

Even people who don't think he was the Son of God, still think he was a real person. You decide.

Sure, but real persons live all the time. A real person having lived is nothing special. billions of real people are living right now....
Just like if Confucius or Aristotle was a real person or not, it's irrelevant really.
it does not matter one bit now, or after i die, if i believe Confucius was a real person or not.

What makes the Jesus case special is that he (unlike Aristotle etc) is said to have done things that we deem impossible. That is a very different matter altogether, and where the story deviates from 'a real person who actually did or did not live..

especially since it is also claimed that if we do not accept the claims, this will have real (but unverifiable) consequences.

I don't know about you Pako, but i cannot "will" myself to believe i can actually fly..(well, not without chemical help anyway, unlike perhaps R Kelly )

Hence, i object to the claim that it was my 'choice' not to believe in a miracle jesus (so to speak), not believing zombies filling the streets when jesus (was?) resurrected is not something i can really help, and i am not sorry for that, i think that is a good thing.

But apparently this inability to believe the, to put it mildly, 'extraordinary claims' without actual evidence in support of them, is said to be enough justification for me to be denied the ability to 'be in the presence of god' after i die....(to follow a mild Hell version)
At the same time i am told a child molester, if he's sincere when he asks forgiveness, will have that 'privilege', is this not so?

And that then is what is called "Divine Justice" or love etc by many Christians (and indeed this idea is well supported biblically)

.... well, i'm afraid it's a little too much to ask from my tiny skeptical humanbrain to agree with

Thanks for reading all the way through 👍
and i'd be happy to correct any flaws in my interpretation of general christain theology/doctrine

 

[Mark T]

Just a quick question for the religious folk in here.

What scientific evidence would it take for you to stop believing in God?

 

[BlackedoutRX7LM]

My belief is that "god" is the universe not a conscious being that will reward or punish.

The universe is amazing, truly something worth worshiping. Just like cells make up our bodies, we (along with everything else) make up the universe. So I think of the universe as very much alive and I am grateful to be a part of it. It's unfortunate that we age so fast and have so little time to enjoy the miracle that we even exist.

I was raised and confirmed Catholic but will not expect the same from my children because my view is religion is a crutch and far more evil has arisen from religion than has good.

 

[Pako]

I'm not trying to bail out of the discussion, but we are in the stages of the discussion where "I believe, and you believe" with no bonified proof to persuade the other, although there are things that compel believers and non-believers to their decisions. To answer mindwise in what it means if Christ was a real person is that it gives some credence to the Gospels, whether or not you believe He was the Son of God. In the "sinners" example that mindwise brought up, he is correct. It is a promise that He will forgive us of ALL our sins. The Bible also says that He knows the motivation of our heart. He'll know if you are abusing the system or not. Although it might be hard for us to digest that kind of generosity of forgiveness, it is a promise made possible by Jesus dieing on the cross for all of our sins.

Mark T raises a intriguing question, "What scientific evidence would it take for you to stop believing in God?" and something that I haven't really thought about before (that's why I love this thread).

For me, it would take scientific proof that there is no outside force that aided in our existence and scientific proof of unexplained miracles. I'm not sure how science could prove that as there are outside forces all around us. Forces that we don't directly "see" but we know they are there.

Time travel where I could be there during the time of Christ to be another eyewitness account to events that would contradict the Bible would also do it for me.

 

[mindwise]

Mark T raises a intriguing question, "What scientific evidence would it take for you to stop believing in God?" and something that I haven't really thought about before (that's why I love this thread).

For me, it would take scientific proof that there is no outside force that aided in our existence and scientific proof of unexplained miracles. I'm not sure how science could prove that as there are outside forces all around us. Forces that we don't directly "see" but we know they are there.

I think Marks point is, if there is no force, how would you scientifically "prove" that there is no force, proving such a negative is not possible without omniscience, and omniscience is not within the reach of science, so...

And personally, i'm not sure what "unexplained miracles" you're referring to, or even what that would be.
If s'omething is not explained, that does not make it a miracle, does it?
Of course not, we only need to travel a bit back in time to 'prove' that.
Earthquakes did not stop being miracles when the explanation came along, they never were miracles, we just did not understand them.

To assert something is a miracle, means that positive evidence in support of the claim should be brought. Especially in the case of a phenomenon that by definition defies the laws of physics.
Everything we do know or has a workable explanation, without exception, has a natural explanation. So why supernatural would even be proposed without strong evidence in support of it is beyond me.

But, since i am as far from omniscience as one can be, if you have evidence in favor of miracles please bring it, seriously.
I just hope it's not going to be something like 'no body of Jesus' because surely you can think of simpler explanations for that.

Thanks, (edit, no not quite yet)

I'm not trying to bail out of the discussion, but we are in the stages of the discussion where "I believe, and you believe" with no bonified proof to persuade the other

How are they equal?, the burden of proof is on the making the claim, are you suggesting that one needs to disprove alien abduction to persuade the one believing?
Surely you agree the one making the claim alien abductions happen, has the burden of proof to provide evidence in support of the claim..

Just say 'I believe on faith', and i'll admit my lack of belief is based on a lack of evidence

if Christ was a real person is that it gives some credence to the Gospels, whether or not you believe He was the Son of God.

Actually, there's no need for that, credence should be given on the merit of the content. that's why i used Aristotle, Aristotle having actually lived or not is irrelevant to the wisdom's he brought. same for Shakespeare etc...
Him having been an actual person isn't in the slightest bit evidence of any of his miracles or truth of his promises (of eternal life etc..). i'd even argue it's evidence against precisely because he then was an actual person.

Although it might be hard for us to digest that kind of generosity of forgiveness, it is a promise made possible by Jesus dieing on the cross for all of our sins.

I truly wonder how you failed to read my main objection (or at least i fail to see how you address it , even calling it 'generosity?), so please read what i wrote in that passage again.

But apparently this inability to believe the, to put it mildly, 'extraordinary claims' without actual evidence in support of them, is said to be enough justification for me to be denied the ability to 'be in the presence of god' after i die....(to follow a mild Hell version)
At the same time i am told a child molester, if he's sincere when he asks forgiveness, will have that 'privilege', is this not so?

Thanks

 

[cpp214]

At the risk of making my views on religion known, *knows better than to discuss religion or politics, with strangers, no less* I can't help but offer my two cents on this topic:

I would currently classify myself as a pragmatic Agnostic.
Pragmatic in the sense that while I don't necessarily believe
there is a God, or life after death, I am nevertheless hopeful that
death is not the end of my existence. Or, to put it another way, about 300 days a year,
I would consider myself an Atheist, and on the other 65 "good" days, a cautiously optimistic Agnostic.
Does it get more Bi-Polar than that? Perhaps that is a cowardly, narcissistic outlook on
the subject, (I should just pick a position and stick with it--Atheist or Believer) but to be honest, it pretty much
sums up my thoughts on the subject.

I have grown fond of my ability to think, reason, feel, hope, etc.
And I sincerely hope that the entity that has come to be known
as "Me" doesn't simply cease to exist when I die.

As for God, I was raised in a culture in which conservative Christianity was (and still is) a dominant force (for reference, I happen to live in a county in which the sale of alcohol is still not legal--only recently have they allowed "by the drink" sales in restaurants). Being raised in a religious family, I began life believing in God and Christ because, essentially, it was foisted upon me by well-meaning (albeit overzealous) adults. I guess the last time I actually believed in God--in the Christian sense of the term--was, maybe 7 or 8 years ago, before I got my Master's Degree. Since then, my faith has slowly, but inexorably deteriorated to the point that I now classify myself as an Agnostic. I can't say it was one single event or piece of evidence that has eroded my faith. Just the simple process of gaining maturity and having more "real world" experiences has led to a gradual refinement of my philosophical/religious views.

Having said all that, I harbor no ill-will toward those who believe in God (in any form, Christian or otherwise). And I am still very much open to persuasion on this subject. Yet, I have still not encountered a convincing, intelligent, rational, philosophic argument in favor of the existence of God in the last several years. Never mind the physical evidence so many seem to want to see. If there is indeed a God, I just don't think that's the way he/she operates. You either have faith, or you don't--and I'm all out at the moment. But, then again, I guess if I am waiting for a convincing argument in favor of God/Life After Death that doesn't include some evidence, I may be waiting for a very long time...

To borrow a thought I heard from someone long ago, the mind is like a rubber band--once stretched to new boundaries, it can never return to its former size and shape. It's the same for me regarding God/Religion. Having been exposed to other ideas and arguments, I just can't embrace that type of blind faith again...maybe ever

 

[mindwise]

a rubber band

He watch it, using that term on GTPlanet is like 'cursing in the church' if you pardon the expression

Perhaps 'spring' is more appropriate, hehehe

 

[TofuStoreDrift]

As I did in the Ida thread, I'll do here. I must apologise for my remarks. I believe now, looking back on it, I came off a bit arrogant, which is not what I should have done. I said that I was not pushing my views, but I was. I don't believe this is what the Lord would have wanted me to do. I only hurt his objectives. So as I said, I apologise. Cheers.

 

[McLaren]

I have question that maybe Pako can give me the answer I am looking for.

Being that most Christian folks believe God created the world in 7 days, what then is the excuse for the dinosaurs? They obviously exist, there's no proof to say otherwise, but if God created Adam & Eve, and the world in the spur of a week, then how on earth do Christians explain the existence of pre-historic creatures?

 

[Danoff]

For me, it would take scientific proof that there is no outside force that aided in our existence and scientific proof of unexplained miracles.

Well... you at least have scientific proof that genesis is wrong (unless you do some very creative tap dancing style interpretations). Science can trace pretty much back to the the birth of the universe without relying on any outside forces. So I'll assume that you've adjusted your religious leanings accordingly.

 

[Pako]

I have question that maybe Pako can give me the answer I am looking for.

Being that most Christian folks believe God created the world in 7 days, what then is the excuse for the dinosaurs? They obviously exist, there's no proof to say otherwise, but if God created Adam & Eve, and the world in the spur of a week, then how on earth do Christians explain the existence of pre-historic creatures?

As it has been discussed several times in the Creation vs. Evo thread, I will just summarize here without too much detail. The Bible also says that a day to God is "like a thousand years". Jordan, the owner of this site, also posted links to the Bible that describes what can be interpreted as some type of long neck.

Is that the answer you were looking for?

 

[McLaren]

As it has been discussed several times in the Creation vs. Evo thread, I will just summarize here without too much detail. The Bible also says that a day to God is "like a thousand years". Jordan, the owner of this site, also posted links to the Bible that describes what can be interpreted as some type of long neck.

Is that the answer you were looking for?

Not really the answer I was looking, but it helps answer the dinosaurs existence in relation to the creation of the world in 7 days if 1 day=1,000 years to God. So, it's more than enough.

 

[dylansan]

I wasn't sure whether this would fit better in the evolution thread or here, but I think it makes more sense here. I have a few friends, incredibly nice and great to be around, but they're very religious. I was talking to one of them, and mentioned that I don't really believe in god, and that I'm sort of an atheist. He was very surprised, but understood for the most part.

Except I'm not really an atheist. I really don't know what I believe, but after a little research I decided that I'm mostly agnostic. So on facebook with one of my other religious friends, I thought I'd mention that to her, and we got into a little discussion. I asked her if she agreed with the theory of evolution, and she said no, because it's something created by man and isn't the truth.

I hate to see people ignoring science and facts because of their strong religious beliefs, and it's especially annoying because she's my friend, but what can I do? I don't necessarily believe there is no god; I can picture some kind of higher power, but not in the sense that "he's watching over us and loves us all." I think more along the lines of something that started it all and then let it go where it would.

Any advice?

 

[arora]

Not really the answer I was looking, but it helps answer the dinosaurs existence in relation to the creation of the world in 7 days if 1 day=1,000 years to God. So, it's more than enough.

There are purists who take the 7 days to be literal as in what a day is to us, and others believe that Gods time his is own.

There is another explanation to the dinosaurs existance...... I don't have the verses off the top but I can get them I supose(I'd have to consult an old friend who believes it). It has to do with a first flood, so Noah's being the second. I'm guessing you don't buy that one either though

I believe in God and I also believe that faith is a gift from him so I don't really fret the small stuff, kinda like looking at a road and knowing it is black simply because you believe it to be so. I'm sure some smart ass scientist could convince you the road is pink but your eyes are funny or some sort.

Good read btw

 

[Exorcet]

I hate to see people ignoring science and facts because of their strong religious beliefs, and it's especially annoying because she's my friend, but what can I do? I don't necessarily believe there is no god; I can picture some kind of higher power, but not in the sense that "he's watching over us and loves us all." I think more along the lines of something that started it all and then let it go where it would.

Any advice?

Well, evolution wasn't created by man, it was discovered. It existed before we did, and before we knew about it.

Evolution and God are also independent, so belief in God does not oppose evolution. Why couldn't it have been God who guided people to evolution anyway. Is the age of God's revelation long gone? Does he have nothing else to say? (I don't know if the Bible does or does not have an answer to that)

The Bible and laws of the Church contain more "created by man" in reality. Just look at the revisions the church has gone through over time. Galileo was a heretic in his time, and he wasn't pardoned for 500 years. Martin Luther's 95 thesis eventually caused to Church to realize that some of its practices were wrong, and amend accordingly. Even if God's word is true, we probably have it interpreted through human beings. If the misinterpretations aren't in the Bible, there were/are some in the Church itself. The Church even accepts evolution, via admission of the Pope. Realizing that Genesis isn't factual, but a representation could be the same as realizing that God can't be bought (the Church used to take money to forgive sins).

Also, if non Christians didn't listen to Christian ideas, the religion would have died. And you can't just say "Well, Christianity is right" because, the old religions were just as right in there people's eyes. Not to mention, all the other religions in existence now are right in their minds.

 

[Joel]

I took grade 1-8 in a catholic school, where I believed all the **** they shove down your throat. However, I got to high school (catholic), and religion class in that school made me realize just how 🤬 stupid catholic religion class is. Don't get me wrong, there IS a God (i guess i should say IMO), but my problem with catholicism is the nearly literal interpretation of the bible. Turning water into wine, IMO doesn't literally mean ZAP! Wine!, it means Jesus convinced the guests at the wedding that water was as good as wine, as the hosts tried hard to make a nice party. Also, I Don't care what the bible says, God DID NOT create the earth in seven days. If the earth was created in seven days, the speed at which the matter would be travelling would likely cause catastrophic damage anyway. So, yes i believe there is a higher power (just look at how complicated human internal structure is) but, i am not even going to bother trying to figure out who/what God is. He or She could be the traditional long white beard of the simpsons, he could be morgan freeman like in bruce/evan almighty, he could be the non material conciousness in futurama, right now you are probably thinking i'm crazy to think that God is like on cartoons, but he could be anything, so i'm keeping an open mind.

 

[mindwise]

The Bible also says that a day to God is "like a thousand years".

And it says right after that "a 1000 years is like a day" does it not?

I'm sorry to press this Pako, but i do appreciate your answers in other parts. so please bear with me.

Imo, apart from the complete quote not saying anything, i think it's irrelevant if that day 'is like a thousand years' or like 'a quarter of a second' to God. It is still like a day to us.

And even to us, a minute can be like an an hour, and it can be like a second, but a minute is still a minute.


Some people would say the bible is written 'from a human perspective'. So i think they should certainly not revert to the 'thousand year' quote (and neither leave out the latter part)
Moreover, one needs to consider that in genesis a day is pretty well defined from day 4 onwards.
From then the day is defined by the period in which the sun rises and waxes, and the moonrises and waxes, with morning, evening etc.

So with all that, i fail to see the significance of the answer, please elaborate.

it helps answer the dinosaurs existence in relation to the creation of the world in 7 days if 1 day=1,000 years to God. So, it's more than enough.

More then enough?
With the dinosaurs roaming the earth for over 150 Million years, i don't quite follow.
And that's just the Dino's, what about the cambrian, pre-cambrian etc....
(i know your stance Reventon, i'm just wondering what you meant with 'more then enough'..)

i wish i was omniscient, i think

(Edit).
I've trying to locate the Jordan post you referred to Pako, but i failed
And i've been locating the posts in Evo-Cre, but i guess it'll boil down to Job, which i could understand someone picturing a Dino by, but not me
(i think you yourself leave open the mythical approach)

 

[Touring Mars]

More then enough?
With the dinosaurs roaming the earth for over 150 Million years, i don't quite follow

I'm with you on that one...

it helps answer the dinosaurs existence in relation to the creation of the world in 7 days if 1 day=1,000 years to God. So, it's more than enough.

Wut? I know the timeline of natural history as described by science maybe not 100% precise, but we're talking about margins of error of maybe around 5%... You're out by a factor of 33000!

Any advice?

Well, evolution wasn't created by man, it was discovered. It existed before we did, and before we knew about it.

Evolution and God are also independent, so belief in God does not oppose evolution. Why couldn't it have been God who guided people to evolution anyway. Is the age of God's revelation long gone? Does he have nothing else to say? (I don't know if the Bible does or does not have an answer to that)

The Bible and laws of the Church contain more "created by man" in reality. Just look at the revisions the church has gone through over time. Galileo was a heretic in his time, and he wasn't pardoned for 500 years. Martin Luther's 95 thesis eventually caused to Church to realize that some of its practices were wrong, and amend accordingly. Even if God's word is true, we probably have it interpreted through human beings. If the misinterpretations aren't in the Bible, there were/are some in the Church itself. The Church even accepts evolution, via admission of the Pope. Realizing that Genesis isn't factual, but a representation could be the same as realizing that God can't be bought (the Church used to take money to forgive sins).

Also, if non Christians didn't listen to Christian ideas, the religion would have died. And you can't just say "Well, Christianity is right" because, the old religions were just as right in there people's eyes. Not to mention, all the other religions in existence now are right in their minds.

+1 👍

I asked her if she agreed with the theory of evolution, and she said no, because it's something created by man and isn't the truth.

I hate to see people ignoring science and facts because of their strong religious beliefs, and it's especially annoying because she's my friend, but what can I do?

It depends - it is one thing to encourage someone to learn about a subject for themselves, but it is quite another if you first have to challenge the way that person considers reality and "truth" before you even get to the bookstore. If someone is that skeptical of science simply because it is "created by man", then I'm afraid you may be fighting a losing battle already. In this case, the best strategy is to not waste your time and agree to disagree.

 

[McLaren]

More then enough?
With the dinosaurs roaming the earth for over 150 Million years, i don't quite follow.
And that's just the Dino's, what about the cambrian, pre-cambrian etc....
(i know your stance Reventon, i'm just wondering what you meant with 'more then enough'..)

I was under the impression from Pako's post that 1 day to us could mean many, many years to God & that 1 day=1,000 God years was a "metaphor" to describe it.

 

[mindwise]

If someone is that skeptical of science simply because it is "created by man", then I'm afraid you may be fighting a losing battle already. In this case, the best strategy is to not waste your time and agree to disagree.

I'm afraid TM has a point there, but she is your friend, so don't agree to disagree just yet.

Science is the enabler of technology, and we see the results of technology all around us.

Then there are other 'human theories' you may point out, which she does put trust in.
Things like the 'theory of aerodynamics', if your friend gets in an airplane, it would seem to me she has no problem putting her trust in an engineer getting his calculations right in accordance with that 'theory'.

That said however, it's now time to revert back to 'agree to disagree', because she can always persist she's putting her trust in god in that case, however unreasonable that sound to you and me.

Understanding is half the work, and though science is not 'done' on youtube, it is explained like in this UCLA course (warning, it's a LONG ride; part 1 of 19 of lecture 15, the parts average 70 minutes, this one is just half an hour though )


edit:

I was under the impression from Pako's post that 1 day to us could mean many, many years to God & that 1 day=1,000 God years was a "metaphor" to describe it.

Well, i guess you are right with that interpreation, that given, i think i explained why -at least- i think it's irrelevant to the actual timeline , metaphor or literal...

 

[Exorcet]

my problem with catholicism is the nearly literal interpretation of the bible.

This is interesting, as I was taught that it wasn't literally true both in school and at Mass. I think it's interpretation is region/culture specific. Officially though, I don't think that the church considers it a book of scientific facts. At least from what I was taught.

 

[mindwise]

Officially though, I don't think that the church considers it a book of scientific facts. At least from what I was taught.

Perhaps now, i hope so.
But i'm not sure if Galileo agrees to your view

 

[Pako]

*snip*

(Edit).
I've trying to locate the Jordan post you referred to Pako, but i failed
And i've been locating the posts in Evo-Cre, but i guess it'll boil down to Job, which i could understand someone picturing a Dino by, but not me
(i think you yourself leave open the mythical approach)

Sorry about that....it was in a different thread, and from 2002. It's amazing how time flys.

Anyways, here's the post I was [URL="https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=83200&postcount=82"]refering to.[/URL]

To address your other point to dismiss "Like a 1000 years" because you say Genesis defines that a day is based on the day we know today of the sun rising and setting.

Lets take a look at Genesis.

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

You say that the day isn't defined until the completion of the fourth day where it says in Genesis 1:17 "God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.". If I am understanding you, you are saying that defines the day that the Bible is referring to at the completion of the fourth day.

If that is so, what is the "Evening" and "Morning" that is being referenced even before the completion of the Fourth day? Note that the "Evening" and "Morning" are referenced throughout, not just before, and not just after the end of the fourth day.

I will continue to say that a day to God, "And there was evening, and there was morning", is still "Like a 1000 years" to us, and a 1000 years to us is like a day to God.

 

[Patrik]

Me and some friends threw bibles into a fire when we were 12 years old or something, I've been really hard and unkind to my mother pretty often, I've been shoplifting candy when I was about 12 or 13 (lol), I swear a lot, drinking alcohol almost every weekend, I've not done many good deeds in my life, I have never ever prayed, and much more... The only thing you believers could call a punishment for being the "bad" person I am, is that I've been trying to get a girlfriend for quite some time now, without luck.

I'm healthy, have a lot of friends, great and healthy family (although my mom pisses me off sometimes), none of my relatives are christians or any other religion for that matter, I had good/decent grades when I graduated from school and I won when a couple of friends and I played bowling last night.

Now, could one of you christians (or believers of any sort) give me a very good explaination on how this can be?

 

[Pako]

I've thrown a couple of bibles into a fire when I was 12 years old or something, I've been really hard and unkind to my mother pretty often, I've been shoplifting candy when I was about 12 as well (lol), I swear a lot, drinking alcohol almost every weekend, I've not done many good deeds in my life, I have never ever prayed, and much more... The only thing you believers could call a punishment for being the "bad" person I am, is that I've been trying to get a girlfriend for quite some time now, without luck.

I'm healthy, have a lot of friends, great and healthy family (which are all atheists, including me), had decent grades when I graduated from school and I won when I and a couple of friends played bowling last night.

Now, could one of you christians give me a very good explaination on how this is possible?

Not totally understanding what you are asking, I would say this is all possible because you are alive. Kudo's to you man, and I tell you good job, bowling game included. 👍

 

[Patrik]

Not totally understanding what you are asking, I would say this is all possible because you are alive. Kudo's to you man, and I tell you good job, bowling game included. 👍

What I'm trying to say if you didn't notice, is that religion is not needed...

 

[Omnis]

What I'm trying to say if you didn't notice, is that religion is not needed...

That's because that's not what it's supposed to be.

Maybe you can't get a girlfriend because you're not enjoyable to be around. Anyway, that issue would be a matter of karma if you believed in it.

 

[Patrik]

Not sure about the "not enjoyable to be around" thing, since as I said, have a lot of friends and their girlfriends appearently think I'm funny, to judge by their laughs anyway (yes, when I try to be funny on purpose)... One thing though, is that I'm pretty shy and inconfident around girls.

I was just saying that I'm the opposite from religious, but still have no (almost) issues in my life. A LOT of deeply religious people has it much worse than me I'd say.

Another funny thing is that people only talk about miracles, not tragedies. Motorsport is a good example. When one survives a bad crash it's a miracle, instead of facing the fact that the race car is very very safe. When one dies in a crash its... just... what really?

If this god of yours excist, he is a cruel man...

WARNING FOR THE SENSITIVE (I can't watch these myself, but go ahead and see how cruel and unfair your great good god is if you really like to.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwfdTndbNfA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yiyzzSwnGM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbC04A9nUmU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs_LoWaAGb0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=lR3GZIRF-v0

 

[Pako]

Not sure about the "not enjoyable to be around" thing, since as I said, have a lot of friends and their girlfriends appearently think I'm funny, to judge by their laughs anyway (yes, when I try to be funny on purpose)... One thing though, is that I'm pretty shy and inconfident around girls.

I was just saying that I'm the opposite from religious, but still have no (almost) issues in my life. A LOT of deeply religious people has it much worse than me I'd say.

Another funny thing is that people only talk about miracles, not tragedies. Motorsport is a good example. When one survives a bad crash it's a miracle, instead of facing the fact that the race car is very very safe. When one dies in a crash its... just... what really?

If this god of yours excist, he is a cruel man...

WARNING FOR THE SENSITIVE (I can't watch these myself, but go ahead and see how cruel and unfair your great good god is if you really like to.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwfdTndbNfA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yiyzzSwnGM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbC04A9nUmU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs_LoWaAGb0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=lR3GZIRF-v0

As far as motorsport is concerned, they know the risks before they get into that car.

If you're going to give my God the bad credit, be sure to give him the good credit to.