Do you believe in God?

[fitftw]

Right, you shouldn't force your religion onto others but at the same time you shouldn't force a non-belief onto others either. Believe or not-believe how you want and don't force your view onto others.

But religious people are forcing their beliefs on non-believers. Such is the case with gay marriage. What harm would come to a Christian if gays across America could finally marry and get federal benefits?

 

[Joey D]

But religious people are forcing their beliefs on non-believers. Such is the case with gay marriage. What harm would come to a Christian if gays across America could finally marry and get federal benefits?

You're trying to force an argument that isn't there. I'm not suggesting that non-believers aren't having things forced on them, but it's still a two way street. You can't get around it either because, as I've said, it's human nature to think that whatever you believe is the right way.

 

[fitftw]

So then tear down society's walls. If gays can't get married, nobody should be able to. If people can't do drugs, nobody should be able to drink alcohol or coffee. Et cetera...

I'm sick and tired of religion making the laws.

American money is branded with "In God We Trust" but I do not trust in God. I suppose that explains my unemployed status. Why does our money have fear-mongering propaganda written on it?

 

[Scaff]

Take it to the correct thread please guys:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24714

American money is branded with "In God We Trust" but I do not trust in God. I suppose that explains my unemployed status. Why does our money have fear-mongering propaganda written on it?

It didn't until around 1957.

 

[Joey D]

American money is branded with "In God We Trust" but I do not trust in God. I suppose that explains my unemployed status. Why does our money have fear-mongering propaganda written on it?

How does that affect you though? I don't ever look at my money, I just pull it out of my wallet and spend it. I mean you say what harm would it cause to Christians if gays got married, but on the same token what would it hurt an atheist to see "In God We Trust" on some paper and metal? It wouldn't. Sure it might be a little annoying but if it bugs you that much Visa makes plastic money.

 

[PR1VATEJ0KER]

I'm sick and tired of religion making the laws.

100% this.


Im also sick of God's Grace..

Joe Christian ends up in the middle of a shootout somehow;
A)He doesn't get hit : Thanks God for guiding those bullets away from him.
B)He gets shot and survives : Thanks God he guided those bullets away from his major organs.
C)He gets shot and dies. : His family thank God for taking him to be with the angels in heaven.

 

[fitftw]

How does that affect you though? I don't ever look at my money, I just pull it out of my wallet and spend it. I mean you say what harm would it cause to Christians if gays got married, but on the same token what would it hurt an atheist to see "In God We Trust" on some paper and metal? It wouldn't. Sure it might be a little annoying but if it bugs you that much Visa makes plastic money.

Do any other countries in the world have religious writings on their money? What harm would it be to a religious person if "In God We Trust" were taken off our money?

Joe Christian ends up in the middle of a shootout somehow;
A)He doesn't get hit : Thanks God for guiding those bullets away from him.
B)He gets shot and survives : Thanks God he guided those bullets away from his major organs.
C)He gets shot and dies. : His family thank God for taking him to be with the angels in heaven.

👍 That about sums up religious people.

 

[Scaff]

How does that affect you though? I don't ever look at my money, I just pull it out of my wallet and spend it. I mean you say what harm would it cause to Christians if gays got married, but on the same token what would it hurt an atheist to see "In God We Trust" on some paper and metal? It wouldn't. Sure it might be a little annoying but if it bugs you that much Visa makes plastic money.

Well from an outside point of view, are you not supposed to have a separation of church and state?

Its also the exact same type of argument you rebutted here:

What harm would come to a Christian if gays across America could finally marry and get federal benefits?

You're trying to force an argument that isn't there. I'm not suggesting that non-believers aren't having things forced on them, but it's still a two way street. You can't get around it either because, as I've said, it's human nature to think that whatever you believe is the right way.

 

[PR1VATEJ0KER]

Right, you shouldn't force your religion onto others but at the same time you shouldn't force a non-belief onto others either. Believe or not-believe how you want and don't force your view onto others.

Nobody is forcing anybody here.
Its not like we are forcing a whole city in Italy to do as we say with regard to religion.

 

[Famine]

You're trying to force an argument that isn't there. I'm not suggesting that non-believers aren't having things forced on them, but it's still a two way street. You can't get around it either because, as I've said, it's human nature to think that whatever you believe is the right way.

What a great argument for governments and law to not be involved in beliefs.

 

[Joey D]

Well from an outside point of view, are you not supposed to have a separation of church and state?

Its also the exact same type of argument you rebutted here:

It was just an example to show the other side of the argument. Honestly letting gays marry and having "In God We Trust" on the money doesn't bother me either way.

Nobody is forcing anybody here.
Its not like we are forcing a whole city in Italy to do as we say with regard to religion.

Right. So telling people they wrong, ignorant, etc for believing in God and that the have to denounce their belief if they want to be better people isn't forcing a non-belief on people?

Telling people how to believe is forcing a belief on them.

What a great argument for governments and law to not be involved in beliefs.

I'm not saying it should be involved.

 

[fitftw]

I think religious people lack the concept of luck. When something good happens to me, it's luck or karma. When something bad happens, that's bad luck or bad karma. It is not God testing me or teaching me or punishing me or rewarding me.

 

[Famine]

I'm not saying it should be involved.

Indeed. You're making the specific argument for them not to be - they cannot represent and treat all of their people equally (as they must) if they invoke religious belief to make standards and laws, because they exclude all people who do not adhere to that belief set. Only by standing apart from belief can they treat people equally - and allow them to act according to their own beliefs free from having others' enforced upon them.

Governments should be secular. If they insist on regulating things like private contracts (which is what a marriage is), they shouldn't exclude certain groups because certain religions say they'd like that to happen.

 

[fitftw]

Governments should be secular. If they insist on regulating things like private contracts (which is what a marriage is), they shouldn't exclude certain groups because certain religions say they'd like that to happen.

Bingo. Now what will it take to force governments to be secular?

History of "In God We Trust" http://www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx

IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin.

Since 1938, all United States coins bear the inscription (a year or less before WW2 began...)

June 14, 1956 - President of the United States Dwight D. Eisenhower authorizes the phrase "under God" to be added to the Pledge of Allegiance.

July 30, 1956 - President Eisenhower approved a Joint Resolution of the 84th Congress, declaring "In God We Trust" the national motto of the United States.

All of that has a LOT to do with the Cold War and psychological warfare, along with the 2nd Red Scare and fear of communism.

Nothing has changed since then. American government is STILL terrified of Communism, and religion is its only weapon for defense.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Nothing has changed since then. American government is STILL terrified of Communism, and religion is its only weapon for defense.

What you mean it sends out a message of hope in the face of great adversity?

 

[PR1VATEJ0KER]

Right. So telling people they wrong, ignorant, etc for believing in God and that the have to denounce their belief if they want to be better people isn't forcing a non-belief on people?

Telling people how to believe is forcing a belief on them.

I wouldn't say I've been telling anyone not to believe.

At best we're trying to have a debate here.
At the very least we are sharing Ideas and practicing democracy.

If nobody told anyone what to believe in the first place.
I think there would be a sharp decline in the religious subscription rate.
Indoctrination is difficult without telling people what to do.

 

[Joey D]

I wouldn't say I've been telling anyone not to believe.

At best we're trying to have a debate here.
At the very least we are sharing Ideas and practicing democracy.

If nobody told anyone what to believe in the first place.
I think there would be a sharp decline in the religious subscription rate.
Indoctrination is difficult without telling people what to do.

I'm not sure what you personally have said but my statement was meant to be more of a general statement. Sorry about that.

Many non-believers do try and force their views on believers though, which is puzzling since try often complain about religion being pushed on them.

 

[McLaren]

I don't go around telling everyone my Miata is God's gift to the car world. It's the best car "for me" much like your religion is the best religion "for you" and you should not push the laws of your religion onto others, only yourself.

You have done exactly that in the past in the automotive forum.

I also find it incredibly appalling & ridiculous you are partaking in the argument for equality when you post this nonsense.

Yes, I did. Now prove me wrong or get on with your day. Ask any girl to show you how to check their oil level, or where their air filter is, the two most simple tasks on any car. I'm betting you don't know much about engines either. Everything make sense now.

Men invented cars. Women have no spatial recognition. Women simply don't belong on the road behind the wheel of a 5,000lb retardedly overpriced and pointless LUXURY SUV tailgating my 2,000lb mini-car while they're on a cell phone applying make-up. Women rely on men more than men rely on women for stuff.

Don't they make you learn a little about how a car works before you can get a license in other continents besides North America because we suck? Most Americans can't tell something is wrong with their car until it literally just stops running. Lack of mechanical empathy. Most people don't belong on the road, period.

^ I agree with all of your points. Do you think more women have the ADD-while-driving syndrome than men? I would say so. Most of them couldn't care less about a car, much like a microwave. Men who are like this astound me.

What are the stats on car accidents caused by people driving automatics vs. stick?

stock Miatas ARE womanly, sure. Once you put some competitive coilovers/swaybars/wheels/tires/internals/forced induction, it becomes a beast for men only. So it doesn't matter if more women drive them, because they only drive stock anyway. I'd take a $15,000 modified Miata over any stock vehicle under $50,000.

I only drive manual. Girls drive auto. Call me sexist if you want, but I look down upon men with automatic sports cars. It might have something to do with my awesome beard, which is also a manly trait.

I think religious people lack the concept of luck. When something good happens to me, it's luck or karma. When something bad happens, that's bad luck or bad karma. It is not God testing me or teaching me or punishing me or rewarding me.

Sorry, you can't use that word. You're not religious, remember?

 

[fitftw]

Karma is a spiritual term, not a religious one.

What you mean it sends out a message of hope in the face of great adversity?

Communism is not something to be afraid of, unless you're the government, or a wealthy person with an unhealthy obsession with Capitalism, or a 'temporarily embarrassed millionaire.'

 

[kolden76]

yes i belive in god

 

[McLaren]

Karma is a spiritual term, not a religious one.

How ironic that you just used the term "spiritual", when that too was originally associated with religion.

But no, Karma is a deeply religious word within India & originated from Hinduism; your actions influence what happens to you in life, which is what Hindus & Buddhists heavily revolve their life around.

 

[Azuremen]

Karma is a spiritual term, not a religious one.

Minus its long standing association in Hinduism

Communism is not something to be afraid of, unless you're the government, or a wealthy person with an unhealthy obsession with Capitalism, or a 'temporarily embarrassed millionaire.'

Minus the part where Communism strips people of free-will. Oh, and how it always leads to incredibly corrupt governments.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Communism is not something to be afraid of, unless you're the government, or a wealthy person with an unhealthy obsession with Capitalism, or a 'temporarily embarrassed millionaire.'

I was thinking more of the nuclear weapons that melt peoples faces and suck the paint off their houses.

 

[fitftw]

Communism doesn't strip people of free will. Greedy power-hungry dictators do. Do some research. True Communism can't exist because all governments are filled with greedy men and women in suits. Therefore no government can last because of the same reason.

Karl Marx had said that Capitalism always leads to Socialism and then/or Communism but never back to Capitalism.

And you can say karma is religious all you want, but it's not.

"Karma is a name for the aspect of existence that connects results to actions. Karma is neither a religion nor a philosophy. It's also not a way of life per se, but instead, simply the way life is.

Taken at its most mundane, it's about how each of our actions creates the conditions for all our possible future actions. To understand karma then is to understand that nothing you do is trivial. All actions have outcomes, and all outcomes have greater ramifications than you are aware of. What goes around, comes around. The love you take, is equal to the love you make."

So if you're a jerk to people, if your religion MAKES you a jerk to people (denying gays of rights etc) then you will be treated as harshly as you treat others, by the world. You may not see it right away, but the little things add up.

 

[Azuremen]

Communism doesn't strip people of free will. Greedy power-hungry dictators do. Do some research. True Communism can't exist because all governments are filled with greedy men an women in suits.

You mean being forced to contribute to the commune isn't a removal of choice and rights?

Not to mention there will always be some greed and corruption in the world, thus why Communism will never work as intended anyhow.

"Karma is a name for the aspect of existence that connects results to actions. Karma is neither a religion nor a philosophy. It's also not a way of life per se, but instead, simply the way life is.

Taken at its most mundane, it's about how each of our actions creates the conditions for all our possible future actions. To understand karma then is to understand that nothing you do is trivial. All actions have outcomes, and all outcomes have greater ramifications than you are aware of. What goes around, comes around. The love you take, is equal to the love you make."

Did you really just grab a quote from Answerbag with no sources?

Because Karma is a concept found originally in Hinduism and was later lifted from that for some Buddhist concepts and then spread out further into the more philosophical aspect we see now. It is still religious in origin and nature. More so when you realize all religion means is a set of spiritual beliefs. And you did say Karma is spiritual.

 

[Scaff]

Communism doesn't strip people of free will. Greedy power-hungry dictators do. Do some research. True Communism can't exist because all governments are filled with greedy men and women in suits. Therefore no government can last because of the same reason.

Visit any eastern bloc countries during the cold war?

I did and quite frankly your talking nonsense; nonsense for another thread.

Karl Marx had said that Capitalism always leads to Socialism and then/or Communism but never back to Capitalism.

Russia says hi and so will China in the next few decades.

And you can say karma is religious all you want, but it's not.

Karma is religous

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/karma.htm

http://www.skepdic.com/karma.html


Oh and your attitude towards women is quite frankly inaccurate and ridiculous.

 

[fitftw]

You mean being forced to contribute to the commune isn't a removal of choice and rights?

Being spiritual is nothing like being religious. I don't have a set of rules and laws to live by.

By the way, do you pay taxes? That's a removal of choice and rights too you know. I'm glad you love Capitalism, but this isn't the place for that discussion.

I'd rather all have some, than some have all.

 

[McLaren]

And you can say karma is religious all you want, but it's not.

"Karma is a name for the aspect of existence that connects results to actions. Karma is neither a religion nor a philosophy. It's also not a way of life per se, but instead, simply the way life is.

Taken at its most mundane, it's about how each of our actions creates the conditions for all our possible future actions. To understand karma then is to understand that nothing you do is trivial. All actions have outcomes, and all outcomes have greater ramifications than you are aware of. What goes around, comes around. The love you take, is equal to the love you make."

Congratulations, you just posted the definition of Karma & how it works.

The fact of the matter is, it is a religious word. You only think it isn't because of how our Western culture has adopted it.

 

[Azuremen]

Being spiritual is nothing like being religious. I don't have a set of rules and laws to live by.

They are quite closely related. And I imagine you do have a set of rules and laws you choose to live by, more so given your tendency to seek the moral high ground in this thread. Which is amusing because you always were arguing a very Nihilistic view point.

By the way, do you pay taxes? That's a removal of choice and rights too you know. I'm glad you love Capitalism, but this isn't the place for that discussion.

Then why did you make it a topic in this thread?

I give up a very minor part of my resources to pay for infrastructure. I certainly don't agree with some aspects of it, but it is much better than any form of Communism.

I'd rather all have some, than some have all.

Right, because the lower classes don't have any freedom in the US and the wealthy have all of it. Oh wait, that is completely wrong.

For saying you don't have any beliefs, you certainly believe a great deal of falsehoods.

Oh and your attitude towards women is quite frankly inaccurate and ridiculous.

Curious where this came up at, if you care to share.

 

[fitftw]

Right, because the lower classes don't have any freedom in the US and the wealthy have all of it. Oh wait, that is completely wrong.

You ARE kidding, right? I wasn't talking about freedom so much as I was about money. But yes there is very little freedom in America. Go to work, come home, get drunk, watch TV to keep yourself ignorant, sleep and do it all over again. We can't grow industrial hemp because the corporations are too massive and rich, can't grow food on your front lawn and the food at the market is poisoned with GMO's etc. There is no such thing as freedom. Slavery never ended.