Do you believe in God?

[SDsnakebutt]

I don't think anybody misses pit hair. Then again, the bald... errh... you know... just seems so...

And stubble hurts.

hahahahahaha
This reminded me of The Pussy Cat Song. . . . just a friendly little cat.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I don't think anybody misses pit hair. Then again, the bald... errh... you know... just seems so...

And stubble hurts.

And we're still just about on topic... my memories of these discoveries and similar remind me that they were the closest I ever felt to a truly religious experience, a sinner before the gates of heaven.

I wasn't as good a sinner in those days but I was lucky to be on a great foundation course

 

[Beav]

I have a question for those of you (U.S. Residents) that are atheist.

Do you think the other 80% of Americans that are religious are idiots?

 

[zzz_pt]

I'm not an american but I guess that there is a few percentage of idiots (the so called american talibans or christian fundamentalists), a great percentage of misinformed and indocrinated poeple, a large percentage of religious by tradition and not by personal conviction and a few percentage is actually a non-believer (but they can't assume it due to fear of consequences or something like that, specially in the south).

From news I read and listen, often the number is more between 40-50% of people that really belive in the god of the bible. Usually surveys that deal with scientyfic facts vs biblical doctrines are a good example. (I don't have them on hand right now but I guess they're easy to found).

ps: I'm not counting other religions because they're small minorities in the larger scope.

 

[Dotini]

I have a question for those of you (U.S. Residents) that are atheist.

Do you think the other 80% of Americans that are religious are idiots?

No. Because not everybody is equipped to deal with the brutal and ugly truth. Such as that there's no life after death. But some people need or prefer a comforting lie to an ugly truth. Just for this, they should not be condemned as idiots. That would be wrong, disrespectful and judgmental.

 

[zzz_pt]

No. Because not everybody is equipped to deal with the brutal and ugly truth. Such as that there's no factual evidence of any kind for us to trust or believe that life after death is a fact. But some people need or prefer a comforting lie to an ugly truth. Just for this, they should not be condemned as idiots. That would be wrong, disrespectful and judgmental.

In general I agreed but it's just to clarify


On the other hand, I think that I was in fact an idiot when I believed this stuff (I was a christian). I don't call other people idiots, but I can say that I feel I was an idiot for many years. But back then I thought I was in the "right way".

 

[Turtle]

I have a question for those of you (U.S. Residents) that are atheist.

Do you think the other 80% of Americans that are religious are idiots?

No, of course not. Not me at least, and an atheist who thinks being religious means being an idiot is someone I wouldn't want to meet. Many of the brightest people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting are deeply religious.

 

[niky]

There are the very vocal ones who decry anything and anyone religious. But a majority of atheists are, like a majority of the religious, willing to live and let live.

My main beef with religion is in institutionalized enforcement of religion.

I don't believe children should ever be inducted into a religion. The choice must be made by adults. Yes, you do have rights as parents in determining the development of the child's morality, but their belief system should be something they choose of their own free will... as per early traditions.

It's worth noting that in the early days of Christianity, baptism was done with adults. Don't see why it can't be the same way now.

I also find the enforcement of Sharia Law on a national level distasteful. As I do any law that tries to enforce public morals rather than allowing consenting adults to do as they please. (And that includes many laws in the United States...)

And we're still just about on topic... my memories of these discoveries and similar remind me that they were the closest I ever felt to a truly religious experience, a sinner before the gates of heaven.

I wasn't as good a sinner in those days but I was lucky to be on a great foundation course

Could be worse. You could've been Hindu. The Kama Sutra is vastly over-rated.

 

[Beav]

On average 80% of Americans are religious. Google it.

 

[SDsnakebutt]

No. Because not everybody is equipped to deal with the brutal and ugly truth. Such as that there's no life after death. But some people need or prefer a comforting lie to an ugly truth. Just for this, they should not be condemned as idiots. That would be wrong, disrespectful and judgmental.

First off, i mean no disrespect by my post. Im only asking because I'm just curious to what your answer will be. And I'm not just asking this from a Christians standpoint but just in general...

But have you ever thought, for just the slightest second, what if you are wrong? I only ask this because many different religions hold similar beliefs that those who do not follow there teachings/ways of good, will suffer consequences. Many seem to have a congruent idea of a Hell like place or being tormented by demons. Has that ever been something u have thought about? or are you so comfortable with what you believe that you wouldn't even think about stuff like that?

There isn't a right or wrong anwser to this. I ask it with the upmost respect for all people of all beliefs. I mainly want to know because i have been a born and raised Christian my whole life so i have always held one belief with no question about any other. And again, please don't take this as me saying "if you don't believe ur going to hell!" . thats not my intentions at all. Thank you for taking the time. have a good day.

 

[niky]

On average 80% of Americans are religious. Google it.

Not all the same religion. Not even close to it.

You have Catholic (22%), Methodist, Baptist, Jehovah's Witness, Latter Day Saints, Mormon... all of whom have their share of preachers, priests and ministers who will happily declare that followers of the "wrong" flavor of Christianity will go to hell... then the Muslim (who have their share of imams happy to proclaim all Christians will go to hell, too), Jews (still waiting for their Messiah), Hindus (who have no hell, but lots of gods), Buddhists (who don't have Hell, or even a God, for that matter), Zen Buddhists, whatever-the-heck-that-thing-Madonna-follows-is, and all the other religions.

48% of Americans are Protestant... but not all the same flavor. And remember... other flavors are "wrong"... so you've got to get it just right...

-

Also:

91 percent of American teens take selfies.

Over 40 million people follow Justin Bieber on Twitter.

Those are some truly scare statistics, indeed.

 

[Beav]

I apreciate you guys being respectful.

I have a couple more questions.

What do you guys (atheists) think about the public presence of religion? (i.e. Presidential Oath - Swearing on the bible, God is in the Pledge of Allegience, etc.) Do you just sort of ignore it?

I am catholic, I believe in God, sinning, all of that. But, I also believe in a "Karma" sort of thing, but God related. Like for example, if you flip someone off driving, maybe in return you run out of gas, or get a flat tire, or wreck (something bad will happen). If you do something bad, you get something bad in return and IMO that's God's way of saying stop it and making you pay, but it's also "Karma" - but God related lol. So my question is those of you that are atheist, do you believe in this "Karma" system just without the God part, or something different?

 

[MrGrado]

I don't believe in God. I'm an animated bag of meat, nothing more.

 

[Turtle]

91 percent of American teens take selfies.

I won't ever fully understand that, I mean, I cry a little every time I open the camera app on my phone and see the view from the front camera.

What do you guys (atheists) think about the public presence of religion? (i.e. Presidential Oath - Swearing on the bible, God is in the Pledge of Allegience, etc.) Do you just sort of ignore it?

I don't pay a whole lot of attention to it, usually. Only on rare occasions does it annoy or frustrate me.

I am catholic, I believe in God, sinning, all of that. But, I also believe in a "Karma" sort of thing, but God related. Like for example, if you flip someone off driving, maybe in return you run out of gas, or get a flat tire, or wreck (something bad will happen). If you do something bad, you get something bad in return and IMO that's God's way of saying stop it and making you pay, but it's also "Karma" - but God related lol. So my question is those of you that are atheist, do you believe in this "Karma" system just without the God part, or something different?

No, I don't really believe in such a thing personally, I know a lot of people who do something negative and don't have a whole lot of bad things happen to them, and vice versa.

But have you ever thought, for just the slightest second, what if you are wrong? I only ask this because many different religions hold similar beliefs that those who do not follow there teachings/ways of good, will suffer consequences. Many seem to have a congruent idea of a Hell like place or being tormented by demons. Has that ever been something u have thought about? or are you so comfortable with what you believe that you wouldn't even think about stuff like that?

The thought of being wrong crosses my mind every once in a while. It can be unnerving, I chose to not follow any religion, and sometimes I wonder what would happen if I chose wrong. That said, I'm comfortable with the decision I have made, even if I doubt myself from time to time.

 

[Scaff]

First off, i mean no disrespect by my post. Im only asking because I'm just curious to what your answer will be. And I'm not just asking this from a Christians standpoint but just in general...

But have you ever thought, for just the slightest second, what if you are wrong? I only ask this because many different religions hold similar beliefs that those who do not follow there teachings/ways of good, will suffer consequences. Many seem to have a congruent idea of a Hell like place or being tormented by demons. Has that ever been something u have thought about? or are you so comfortable with what you believe that you wouldn't even think about stuff like that?

There isn't a right or wrong anwser to this. I ask it with the upmost respect for all people of all beliefs. I mainly want to know because i have been a born and raised Christian my whole life so i have always held one belief with no question about any other. And again, please don't take this as me saying "if you don't believe ur going to hell!" . thats not my intentions at all. Thank you for taking the time. have a good day.

Atheism isn't about belief, its about an absence of belief - seems a minor difference, but it is an important one.

Now on the topic of hell, its a common theme in western religions (in eastern religions its about reincarnation) and started with it simply being one of the realms ruled over by one of the many gods in a pantheon. When pantheon based religions turned into monotheistic religions (as the Abraham ones did - this by the way is not conjecture - its pretty much agreed in anthropological scholarship) they brought this concept of a 'bad' place with them. They also pulled in mythology from other religions, for example the idea of Hell being called hell and a place in which you get tortured is actually originated in the Germanic and Norse religions, the Norse version even being the origin of the word Hell (from Hel).

I apreciate you guys being respectful.

I have a couple more questions.

What do you guys (atheists) think about the public presence of religion? (i.e. Presidential Oath - Swearing on the bible, God is in the Pledge of Allegience, etc.) Do you just sort of ignore it?

I'm very firmly of the view that it has not place being enforced in public life at all, now I do know that a number of politicians have sworn oaths on the US constitution rather than the 'insert religious text', however if you want to succeed in politics in a lot of countries then I'm sure many fake belief.

I apreciate you guys being respectful.
I am catholic, I believe in God, sinning, all of that. But, I also believe in a "Karma" sort of thing, but God related. Like for example, if you flip someone off driving, maybe in return you run out of gas, or get a flat tire, or wreck (something bad will happen). If you do something bad, you get something bad in return and IMO that's God's way of saying stop it and making you pay, but it's also "Karma" - but God related lol. So my question is those of you that are atheist, do you believe in this "Karma" system just without the God part, or something different?

I have no belief in Karma at all, I do however understand False Pattern Recognition and the effect it can have. Its also important to remember that correlation does not imply causation, another common reason why people falsely believe that one thing follows another.

 

[TenEightyOne]

... have you ever thought, for just the slightest second, what if you are wrong? ...

Yes, definitely and constantly. As I said before I look for empirical evidence to prove any hypotheses and won't accept even the most obvious assumptions to reach "proof".

I don't disregard the Bible or Qu'uran by any means but there is nothing more to them (in my opinion) than fable. There's plenty of good that can be taken from them but as a factual description of the origin of life they fall strictly into the realms of fantasy in my opinion.

At the risk of gristing your mill; here's some science in action. These guys are taking a large bite of ass right now but read the quote.... "data is king". You'll enjoy the theme of that article overall, I imageine...

In support of @Scaff reminding you that correlation does not imply causation; beware the margarine/divorce trap...

 

[mistersafeway]

First off, i mean no disrespect by my post. Im only asking because I'm just curious to what your answer will be. And I'm not just asking this from a Christians standpoint but just in general...

But have you ever thought, for just the slightest second, what if you are wrong? I only ask this because many different religions hold similar beliefs that those who do not follow there teachings/ways of good, will suffer consequences. Many seem to have a congruent idea of a Hell like place or being tormented by demons. Has that ever been something u have thought about? or are you so comfortable with what you believe that you wouldn't even think about stuff like that?

There isn't a right or wrong anwser to this. I ask it with the upmost respect for all people of all beliefs. I mainly want to know because i have been a born and raised Christian my whole life so i have always held one belief with no question about any other. And again, please don't take this as me saying "if you don't believe ur going to hell!" . thats not my intentions at all. Thank you for taking the time. have a good day.

I've thought about it, but not in an 'I could be wrong, argh!' way.

So, if I don't believe, I go to Hell (according to certain religious documents). I feel that any God who would send me to Hell, purely because I don't waste my life praising them by, for example going to church every Sunday, is not the sort of person I would like to associate with, a pathetic bully, like religious organisations used to be (and still are if they preach that). I would rather spend an eternity in Hell (rather unlikely punishment anyway if you ask me) than believe out of fear; the intention of that part of The Bible.

 

[Touring Mars]

But have you ever thought, for just the slightest second, what if you are wrong?

A good question, and one that everyone should ask themselves. Being aware of the possibility of being wrong is vitally important, and it is one reason why I think atheism is a sensible position. Since atheism makes no statement on the existence of God, it cannot be 'wrong' on the question of 'Does God exist?'. Atheism is the lack of belief in God, but it is not the same as non-theism - the belief that there is no God. Unlike theism, atheism doesn't involve acceptance of the claim that God exists. And unlike non-theism, atheism doesn't involve acceptance of the claim that God doesn't exist either. Clearly, since God either exists or doesn't exist, both theists and non-theists could be wrong, and one of them must be wrong... atheists, on the other hand, cannot be.

There's also a point here about the difference between belief and knowledge. The very question 'What if you are wrong?' assumes that the question of God's existence will become settled at some point, and thus render one's beliefs on the subject redundant anyway. Therefore, holding a position of no belief seems like a sensible position.

 

[Exorcet]

I have a question for those of you (U.S. Residents) that are atheist.

Do you think the other 80% of Americans that are religious are idiots?

My family is religious, didn't stop some of them from going to college, etc. I was raised religiously, and it stuck for a while. It's not just an issue of intelligence. Culture plays a part. While I was raised to believe, the world I grew up was probably less religious than the one my parents grew up in.

It's worth noting that in the early days of Christianity, baptism was done with adults. Don't see why it can't be the same way now.

It's interesting how religion is a good example of non biological evolution sometimes isn't it?

I apreciate you guys being respectful.

I have a couple more questions.

What do you guys (atheists) think about the public presence of religion? (i.e. Presidential Oath - Swearing on the bible, God is in the Pledge of Allegience, etc.) Do you just sort of ignore it?

It has no real meaning to me. Just ceremony and tradition.

I am catholic, I believe in God, sinning, all of that. But, I also believe in a "Karma" sort of thing, but God related. Like for example, if you flip someone off driving, maybe in return you run out of gas, or get a flat tire, or wreck (something bad will happen). If you do something bad, you get something bad in return and IMO that's God's way of saying stop it and making you pay, but it's also "Karma" - but God related lol. So my question is those of you that are atheist, do you believe in this "Karma" system just without the God part, or something different?

I don't believe in karma. There is no reason why someone would be punished by nature for doing something. Nature just doesn't care. However, since we're intelligent beings we can realize right from wrong and enforce morality ourselves. I think the primary goals of punishment should be reparation and deterrence. Everything else (like revenge or reciprocating of suffering) does not really matter. If someone flipped me off while driving, I wouldn't care and I wouldn't think that person deserved a flat tire or any other issue. If that same person punched me in the face I'd fight back and have him/her thrown in prison.

 

[Danoff]

I have a question for those of you (U.S. Residents) that are atheist.

Do you think the other 80% of Americans that are religious are idiots?

Yes on that isolated subject alone.

(Sorry, someone had to say "yes" and it was irresistible to me)

Some of the smartest people I know are seriously religious. I think those people are brilliant, until it comes to that subject. I know this guy in real life:



He's brilliant. Not only is he an insanely well accomplished bankruptcy lawyer, he's a well respected professor at a prestigious university, founded a successful law firm, has made more money than I ever will, but he's also sharp. I've spoken to him about the engineering that I do and, it's hard to describe, he's just quick. He orients himself to a new subject and identifies the issues in moments. He's also really into the healing power of crystals, and I do consider that a major failing.

 

[Dotini]

...not everybody is equipped to deal with the brutal and ugly truth. Such as that there's no life after death. But some people need or prefer a comforting lie to an ugly truth.

...have you ever thought, for just the slightest second, what if you are wrong? I only ask this because many different religions hold similar beliefs that those who do not follow there teachings/ways of good, will suffer consequences. Many seem to have a congruent idea of a Hell like place or being tormented by demons. Has that ever been something u have thought about? or are you so comfortable with what you believe that you wouldn't even think about stuff like that?

Yes, I have thought about being wrong on the question of life after death. I have said it is a lie, but of course there is no way I could know the truth without experiencing it. So my assertion was itself a lie. It is the lie I choose to believe because of its beauty and utility. In the case there actually is life after death, I believe I am in good shape. This is because I treat others as I would have them treat me. I believe in karma - not immediate, but cosmic. Tangled up in all this is the question of consciousness. Science struggles with this; it is a banned topic on my physics forum. The most beautiful available lie is that consciousness is universal, immortal, an aspect of deity, etc, etc., and this is where your hell, UFOs and demons come in.

Thank you for your thoughtful and intelligent questions; I'm very pleased to meet you.

 

[TenEightyOne]

He's also really into the healing power of crystals, and I do consider that a major failing.

Now this I'm fascinated with... I'm not sure we understand how life's electrical nature really shapes us and how the sharing of our energy (ideas, thoughts, words, contexts, arguments) actually affects us.

I think it was @Touring Mars who posted a fascinating bit of research from Glasgae Univairshty about the resonance of DNA... I'd love to discount the importance of life's interactions through electrical energy but somehow can't.

But that guy up there ^^^, clearly an inspirational character but as mad as a goat

 

[Dotini]

What do you guys (atheists) think about the public presence of religion? (i.e. Presidential Oath - Swearing on the bible, God is in the Pledge of Allegience, etc.) Do you just sort of ignore it?

These fall into the category of "useful or necessary lies". Consensual delusion would be another term.

 

[BobK]

But have you ever thought, for just the slightest second, what if you are wrong?

Actually I do wonder about this sort of thing from time to time. But since my position is basically "I don't know", I don't see how that position can be considered wrong (or right for that matter).

i have been a born and raised Christian my whole life so i have always held one belief with no question about any other.

So if you yourself were asked the same question your answer would be "no", correct?

 

[DK]

I apreciate you guys being respectful.

I have a couple more questions.

What do you guys (atheists) think about the public presence of religion? (i.e. Presidential Oath - Swearing on the bible, God is in the Pledge of Allegience, etc.) Do you just sort of ignore it?

My home country is Ireland, where religion is deeply woven into public life. The Catholic Church controls over 90% of Irish schools - these are publicly funded schools
to boot.

I have no problem if a politician belongs to a given religion. My problems begin when the politiciains tries to enshrine their beliefs as the law of the land, as Irish politicians were wont to do in the past.

 

[SDsnakebutt]

@everyone!!!!

Thank YOU!, for understanding where i was coming from with my question and respectfully answering it. All of your guys replies more than fulfilled what i was looking for. Im very intrigued and please to learn and listen to everyones input about these topics.

I have to admit that i must apologize to the atheist Community. Up until i got replies to my first post on this thread i have had a very negative outlook on atheist. My whole life actually. Some of that has to do with my own personal problem of putting labels on all and any who cal themselves atheist , before i even get to know them. Some of it has to do with the unintelligent immature ones that resort to name calling and bashing, giving me a bad impression. (BTW, there are unintelligent immature kids of ALL religions, i can point out a few that make me immbarassed to call myself christian)

BUT!!! just the few conversations with the great people on this forum/thread, i have been able to look thru my own stupidity and ignorance and change the view i have. Thank you for showing me that you guys. Regardless of the things that make us different i promise not to assume and pre-judge the future atheist i come to meet.

So if you yourself were asked the same question your answer would be "no", correct?

I would be lying if i said no. The more i think about the question , the more i think that its just human nature to think about the possibilities of being wrong. For me, i say it comes from a place of fear. Being afraid to be wrong on such a impactful thing , i think would be normal tho. at least for me.

 

[Famine]

@everyone!!!!

Thank YOU!, for understanding where i was coming from with my question and respectfully answering it. All of your guys replies more than fulfilled what i was looking for. Im very intrigued and please to learn and listen to everyones input about these topics.

The thing with atheism is that we're a lot closer to you than you think.

Atheism isn't a belief - it's a lack of belief. We don't believe that your deity (or any other) exists, and this is a discreet position from believing that your deity (or any other) doesn't exist.

It's worth noting that every adherent of every other religion - even those that have the same deity and key characters but a different interpretation of some events - thinks you're wrong and believes your deity doesn't exist. Atheists don't - we think you might be right but we don't believe your deity exists.


You ask if atheists ever think we're wrong about the whole god/afterlife thing. Yes (which is to say "no" - because we don't believe in any of them, we can't be wrong), but there's no way to determine which of the tens of thousands of versions of it is the right one - if you tried to pick one using the principles of rationality and logic, you'd go insane. Indeed this is a question more suited for those who DO believe in a specific god/afterlife thing - do you ever think you're wrong and what are the consequences if you are?

See, the religious believe in the one deity (or set of deities) and either don't believe in or actively disbelieve all the others. The only difference with atheists is that we don't believe in that one deity either...

 

[sammy neuman]

So, when we are debating something that can neither be proved nor disproved, what is there to debate? Which is why I don't debate on this question.
I do have an opinion on belief/not belief. If I say I believe something that can be neither proved nor disproved, I am making a personal choice based on incomplete information. If I say I do not believe something that can be neither proved nor disproved, again I am making a personal choice based on incomplete information.
As both positions require a personal choice based on an unknown, both require a measure of 'faith' that the choice is correct.
I cannot state that one position is true to the exclusion of the other without exposing myself as closed-minded (with possibly other bad habits).
Not only are the two sides closer than we think, they are two sides of the same coin.

 

[GTP_Richtofen]

I absolutely dislike anytime i see people talking down upon or mistreating another person because of a different religious belief. I know there is religious extremism in the world but i still don't understand why in our communities we use religion as a labeling device. I whole heartedly believe in God. I have good friends that don't. We don't let that difference come between are friendship. For us, its no different than me really liking pizza and my friend not liking pizza. We can still be friends, we just won't be eating pizza together.

 

[Exorcet]

If I say I do not believe something that can be neither proved nor disproved, again I am making a personal choice based on incomplete information.

Actually not believing is the default position, it doesn't require a choice.

You don't believe in the flying jackal robot horse mermaid because I just made that up and you never thought about it before. It was literally nothing to you. This is the atheist position.

On the other hand believing that something is absolutely not is the same as believing that something absolutely is.

As for the reason why people bother with the thread, I'll join in when I feel like I'll enjoy debating or when I feel like I might spread or receive information.

I absolutely dislike anytime i see people talking down upon or mistreating another person because of a different religious belief. I know there is religious extremism in the world but i still don't understand why in our communities we use religion as a labeling device. I whole heartedly believe in God. I have good friends that don't. We don't let that difference come between are friendship. For us, its no different than me really liking pizza and my friend not liking pizza. We can still be friends, we just won't be eating pizza together.

You're right not to divide or look down on people because of belief, but I think it's hard to escape that religion can be more complex than a pizza preference.

For example, you have those trying to get intelligent design in school. This should be a crime (teaching of religion as fact in place of real facts, not the belief in religion), but it's protected or justified at times under freedom of religion.