Do you believe in God?

  • Thread starter Patrik
  • 24,489 comments
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Do you believe in god?

  • Of course, without him nothing would exist!

    Votes: 624 30.6%

  • Maybe.

    Votes: 368 18.0%

  • No way!

    Votes: 1,051 51.5%
  • Total voters
    2,042
All the details aside tho, If God was real then all I have is one thing to say. I'd rather die on feet than live on my knees.
 
You have to go back to the original language if you want to make sense of it, I think you'd rather stay smug in your own(or whatever) interpretation rather then seek out what it says or means.

That is fine by me btw, it's just a silly book.
 
Danoff
Many citations needed.



So you're saying that the translation was intentionally misleading... and that the people who did it were not true believers.



Only one of the quotes I provided uses "hell", so that actually doesn't help.
Click to expand...
Agreed, citations need - I'll do that when I find a little more time. ;)

Whether the translation was initially intentionally misleading or just poorly translated is unknown but considering the history of early church adoption of all manner of pagan beliefs/rituals in the name of making christianity more palatable to the unbelievers (Easter and Christmas are good examples - the origins of Xmas are horrific!) I suspect it was intentional.

Different translations make different use of the word Hell, some will be Hell and others Hades in certain locations.
The word has been translated Hell from several different words in the original text. In the case of the sinful angelic beings you mentioned earlier it is tartarus - it's the only instance of the word to be found in scripture and is specifically in connection with angels not humans.
Other instances are Hades or Sheol (the realm of the dead - not specific to unrighteous or righteous- both are said to be in Sheol) and Gehenna - specifically refering the the valley of Gehenna in Israel which at the time the word was used (by Jesus) was the rubbish tip for Jerusalem.
 
The main thing about the having a belief in the first place is that there are many, yet all claim each own is true. If all of them say they are true we have a problem, which one is actually true? As a deconvert from Christianity, I know a thing or two about the Bible, and all translations considered, there is no actual mentioning of a spiritual hell in the bible, all are either metaphors, or nicknames if you will of a physical place. Hell was a concept brought up to scare people into the religion.

Edit: Basically what @Nato_777 said above me.
 
Danoff
What about the firey furnace and the gnashing of teeth and the sulfur?
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Generally the OT represents the Judaic version of sheol, a physical place beneath our feet where the just and unjust dead are split. Sometimes the description is close to what we recognise as hell but generally it sounds a pretty mundane affair with coffee tables and probably a receptionist.

The comic-book hell (and the equivalent heaven) were worked up in the NT and give the Hollywood pizazz that they have now.
 
Hardly a Hollywood hell described there, I thought you would show me some verses describing a devil with horns and a tail, red with a pitchfork for no apparent reason.

You did say it was in the NT after all. Oh well, I am disappoint.
 
squadops
Hardly a Hollywood hell described there, I thought you would show me some verses describing a devil with horns and a tail, red with a pitchfork for no apparent reason.

You did say it was in the NT after all. Oh well, I am disappoint.
Click to expand...

The bibles aren't picture books, you can see plenty of work inspired by the NT in churches and on gallery walls around the world. The basis for those interpretations is the New Testatement arrangement of celestial heaven and sub-surface hell. My point was that until then sheol was much more earth-bound and, dare I say, slightly complicated in comparison.
 
squadops
I see, so the NT does not depict a Hollywood hell, gotcha 👍
Click to expand...

I think you take "Hollywood" to mean action films, certainly their later output included stuff like that. I never said they were depicted in the bible, I clearly told you that for pictures you needed to go elsewhere. You either misunderstood or confused me with somebody else.

By "Hollywood" I meant a more easy-to-digest story-of-the-people black-and-white kind of approach. The Greatest Story Ever Told kind of nonsense, dumbed down and boiled flat for the easy digestion of the masses. That's what Hollywood is, a vapid lowest-common-denominator version of story-telling. Not that I don't like it, but that's how the NT comes across to me too :)
 
I'm not confused, you said this.

The comic-book hell (and the equivalent heaven) were worked up in the NT and give the Hollywood pizazz that they have now.

I know how to read, I asked you for an example of this in the NT and you could not provide one. Not a big deal really, I wonder if you have read it however.
 
squadops
I'm not confused, you said this.

The comic-book hell (and the equivalent heaven) were worked up in the NT and give the Hollywood pizazz that they have now.

I know how to read, I asked you for an example of this in the NT and you could not provide one. Not a big deal really, I wonder if you have read it however.
Click to expand...

"Worked up", you added "depicted", it's a word I didn't use. You seemed to be asking for pictures.

In the source I provided to you there are a number of examples of Heaven as an elevated celestial concept while Hell is a below-ground (but not necessarily in-ground) place of eternal fire and/or torment. I'm not sure why those references were unclear to you?

Those NT descriptions differ greatly, as your own reading will have informed you, from the 'normal' description of eternity (the sheol) as described (not depicted) in the OT.

What's the point you're picking at? Are you saying that Heaven/Hell are the same between OT and NT? Do you disagree that NT is more "Hollywood" in terms of big, flashy, oneshot imagery?
 
I wonder what word this defines.

portray in words; describe.
"youth is depicted as a time of vitality and good health"

My point is there is nothing Hollywood about the NT, not a thing.


Perhaps you are thinking of Dante Alighieri or Ron Hubbard.
 
squadops
I wonder what word this defines.

portray in words; describe.
"youth is depicted as a time of vitality and good health"
Click to expand...

Describe means to write a portrayal. You just said so yourself. Unfortunately you actually said;

squadops
I see, so the NT does not depict a Hollywood hell, gotcha 👍
Click to expand...

Go check depict before you talk your knickers any further down :)

I'll rephrase the questions for you and avoid the use of Hollywood before you start bringing Great British Baking references in too;

Are you saying that Heaven/Hell are the same between OT and NT? Do you disagree that NT is more extreme in terms of big, flashy, oneshot imagery?
 
squadops
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/depict

No need to drop my drawers, but I do it sometimes anyway just for fun.

How in the world does Hollywood hell have anything to do with the difference between OT and NT? You make about as much sense as you did in the homosexual thread.

Either dense or troll.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that, you seem a nice chap. Did you look at the dictionary definition you posted? It explains the difference between a picture and writing in there (depict vs describe, pict, scribe, it tells itself really).

The NT is, in my opinion, a much more channeled piece of propaganda with much clearer, simpler comparisons and lessons. In many ways it takes a lot less work for the reader to understand what they're being told than in the OT. That's what I mean be Hollywood, a distilled, easy-to-digest version of story telling with clear cut good guys, bad guys and a clearly understood system of crime and punishment.

You stated it seems to be "NT vs OT", so in what way do you see that?

When you say God is separable from Religion do you accept that perhaps that demonstrates that the NT is simply a contrived framework around the original myth/God?
 
Something to Think About:

To date, despite the efforts of millions of true believers to support this myth, there is no more evidence for the Judeo-Christian god than any of the gods on Mount Olympus.

--Joseph Daleiden
 
...Or any other gods for that matter. Including the Flying Spaghetti Monster and this other god I just made up but haven't thought of a name for yet...
 
I'd rather the Greek gods be real than the Abrahamic one though. They seem cooler, and have more personality traits in common with humans.
 
Maybe not 100% on the topic but interesting either way.


up-leonhardt-superJumbo.png


In the hardest places to live in the United States, people spend a lot of time thinking about diets and religion. In the easiest places to live, people spend a lot of time thinking about cameras.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/19/u...0000&bicmet=1420088400000&_r=1&abt=0002&abg=0
 
Interesting article, @zzz_pt.

Let me add a little which is also not quite 100% on topic.

After the 2008 US presidential election, I embarked on an analysis of correlation of social and other statistics with degree of voting bias towards the left or the right. This was on a state-by-state basis.

What I found was that the following statistics rose with the degree of Republican voting of the state:-

Attendance at places of worship
Teen pregnancy
Higher percentage below poverty line
Poorer health
Poorer education
Gun deaths per 100,000 population
Divorce rate
Bankruptcy rate
Lynchings per 100,000 population

Of course, another way of looking at this is that the more church-going a population becomes, the more they suffer from the above negative indicators and are governed by more right-wing politicians.
 
Found this great article about how science would be if the bibble's teachings on the subject (Book of Kings) were true. That's a universe where pi=3

Link.
 
Grossly off-topic so I apologize in advance.

There was this limerick.

"It's long been a project of mine
A new value for Pi to define
I would set it at three
Since it's simpler you see
Than three point one four one five nine."
 

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