Do you believe in God?

[Famine]

No. @Scaff didn't believe how I defined it in Arabic, I explained.

edit-

Rather, how it actually IS definied in Arabic (not how I personally defined it). Which is absurd.

Okay, here's your problem.

The Arabic equivalent for the word "religion" isn't the word "religion" - it's the Arabic equivalent. On an equal footing, the English word "religion" is the English equivalent of the word "بما وراء الطبيعة"* (which I can't transcribe into Romanised letters) and not the word "بما وراء الطبيعة" itself.

Defining "بما وراء الطبيعة" as a collection of ideas and beliefs that define your life's purpose doesn't define "religion" as that. "Religion" has a very specific meaning - and I do not have a religion.

You love that **** don't you.

What, precise and accurate communication? Yep, I'm all over it.

A sound human brain. There, better?

Sure. Define "sound".

* Edit: I've no idea if the Arabic here is actually what's being translated as "religion". That's why Rule 1 exists

 

[BHRxRacer]

The Arabic equivalent for the word "religion" isn't the word "religion" - it's the Arabic equivalent.

Okay? Say that to @Scaff . I defined the "equivalent" of it in Arabic, and he didn't believe me. What's your point?

the English word "religion" is the English equivalent of the word "بما وراء الطبيعة"

Citation required.

ما وراء الطبيعة means supernatural/metaphysical. Tell me how that's the definition of religion in English.

Sure. Define "sound".

I backspaced the definition earlier. The undamaged brain of a human that's not mentally ill. Go ahead, nitpick.

 

[Famine]

Citation required.

ما وراء الطبيعة means supernatural/metaphysical. Tell me how that's the definition of religion in English

Sorry, just plucked it out of the mess of Arabic in your post. That's why we have rule 1 in place. Whatever the word you were defining as the equivalent word to religion isn't the word religion, it's the equivalent of it.

I backspaced the definition earlier. The undamaged brain of a human that's not mentally ill. Go ahead, nitpick.

Define "not mentally ill".

 

[BHRxRacer]

Sorry, just plucked it out of the mess of Arabic in your post. That's why we have rule 1 in place. Whatever the word you were defining as the equivalent word to religion isn't the word religion, it's the equivalent of it.

Okay, that's دين. Your point? When did I say it's the the word religion itself? You're clutching at straws.

Define "not mentally ill".

Plagiarizing wikipedia:
impaired ability to function in ordinary life, and which is not developmentally.

Since it's a bit too general. Let me redefine "sound". Someone coherent, not crazy. Still a bit loose.

Just get to the point. What are you getting it?

 

[Danoff]

Okay, that's دين. Your point? When did I say it's the the word religion itself? You're clutching at straws.

You've gone so far to try to define the word religion the way you want, that you're using a different definition of a different word in a different language to try to make your point. "Whatever your original intentions, you have become truly lost."

 

[BHRxRacer]

You've gone so far to try to define the word religion the way you want, that you're using a different definition of a different word in a different language to try to make your point. "Whatever your original intentions, you have become truly lost."

Well, why don't you read the full conversation? Maybe then you'll understand. The Arabic definition has nothing to do with anything here, I was just telling a story about it and @Scaff requested a citation.

 

[Danoff]

Well, why don't you read the full conversation? Maybe then you'll understand. The Arabic definition has nothing to do with anything here, I was just telling a story about it and @Scaff requested a citation.

I did answer anyway, you said it doesn't make sense. Despite it being the literal definition in Arabic. Basically, everything you believe now, god or no god, aliens or no aliens, rights or no rights, is your own personal religion. It's the set of rules that you live your life by. That's in Arabic. Years ago I thought what you guys thought, that atheism means no religion. Then that friend came along and explained that it technically it does mean it's a religion, a religion of no god (what @Famine referred to as nontheism). I had known him for years, and it didn't just take his word for it. He had references that you guys love so much.

^ Here's you doing exactly what I said you were.

 

[BHRxRacer]

Well, why don't you read the full conversation? Maybe then you'll understand. The Arabic definition has nothing to do with anything here, I was just telling a story about it and @Scaff requested a citation.

^ Here's you doing exactly what I said you were.

^Here's you doing exactly what I said you were. Read the full conversation. Go back to this:

@Famine 's definitions would be accurate if he'd replace "belief" with "religion". That's what my friends said, and why I believed what he said years ago, because it's exactly the same in Arabic. The word "religion" in Arab
ic means one's collective belief, that includes the belief of no gods.

 

[Danoff]

^Here's you doing exactly what I said you were. Read the full conversation. Go back to this:

That's non-responsive, and not even the same GTPlanet member. Also, the part you quested was supposed to be a response that had something directly to do with anything here. Now respond to my post sincerely.

 

[BHRxRacer]

That's non-responsive, and not even the same GTPlanet member. Also, the part you quested was supposed to be a response that had something directly to do with anything here. Now respond to my post sincerely.

????????????????????
GTP: Atheism is not a religion
Me: I thought so too, but a qualified friend explained to me years ago that it technically is. <<<<<<< on topic
Me: I wasn't surprised because the Arabic equivalent of religion also implies that atheism is a religion. <<<<<< piece of trivia/chat

 

[Famine]

Okay, that's دين. Your point? When did I say it's the the word religion itself? You're clutching at straws

Not at all. Let's revisit your original post, since you quoted it...

@Famine 's definitions would be accurate if he'd replace "belief" with "religion". That's what my friends said, and why I believed what he said years ago, because it's exactly the same in Arabic. The word "religion" in Arabic means one's collective belief, that includes the belief of no gods.

You're telling me there that because the Arabic equivalent of the word "religion" - which is not the English word "religion" - means what you say it means, I'm wrong when in English I use the word "belief" in place of the word "religion".

I'm not. The English word "religion" very specifically deals with belief in deities and is distinct from belief in superstition, ghosts, aliens or that Sheffield Wednesday are not crap. Thus when I use the word "belief" I am accurate.

You are trying to use the Arabic equivalent of a word to redefine that word in English to suit your argument.

Plagiarizing wikipedia:
impaired ability to function in ordinary life, and which is not developmentally.

Since it's a bit too general. Let me redefine "sound". Someone coherent, not crazy. Still a bit loose.

Just get to the point. What are you getting it?

Well... you say that everyone has a religion - thanks to your insistence on using a different Arabic word rather than the English word "religion" to define "religion" - and us atheists are telling you that we don't.

In some parts of the world, not believing in the state deity is classed as a mental illness. Here's Nigeria showing exactly this - amusingly in an Islamic province, though this attitude is not exclusive to Islam.

It seems like an amusingly self-completing prophecy - you say you have to be crazy not to have a religion and here we see people who do not have a religion being locked up for being crazy (and boy is he lucky to have been merely locked up).

GTP: Atheism is not a religion
Me: I thought so too, but a qualified friend explained to me years ago that it technically is. <<<<<<< on topic
Me: I wasn't surprised because the Arabic equivalent of religion also implies that atheism is a religion. <<<<<< piece of trivia/chat

Your friend is wrong. Atheism is not a religion any more than evolutionary theory is a religion - though some atheists (and folk who don't understand evolution) can treat it as one.

It may be the case that in the Arabic equivalent for the word "religion", where all ideas are included, atheism is an [Arabic equivalent for the word religion], but it is not a religion.

I do not have a religion. Please stop telling me that I do because another language defines an equivalent word to religion differently than the word religion is defined.

 

[Danoff]

????????????????????
GTP: Atheism is not a religion
Me: I thought so too, but a qualified friend explained to me years ago that it technically is. <<<<<<< on topic
Me: I wasn't surprised because the Arabic equivalent of religion also implies that atheism is a religion. <<<<<< piece of trivia/chat

Oooooooh I see.

You actually haven't attempted to support line 2 in there at all. You didn't realize that by quoting the arabic word and pointing out how in other languages some words have definitions closer to what you think the English definition is, that we'd all think you were trying to use that as a basis for claiming that the English word means the same.

We did. If you really meant it as unrelated, you made it about as confusing as you could. Anyway we wait for actual justification for your claim.

 

[BHRxRacer]

Oooooooh I see.

You actually haven't attempted to support line 2 in there at all. You didn't realize that by quoting the arabic word and pointing out how in other languages some words have definitions closer to what you think the English definition is, that we'd all think you were trying to use that as a basis for claiming that the English word means.

We did. If you really meant it as unrelated, you made it about as confusing as you could. Anyway we wait for actual justification for your claim.

I did make an attempt to support line 2, my friend hasn't responded. Bringing Arabic into this was never the topic, or a support to it. I just explained why I wasn't surprised when my friend explained what he explained. You guys have a knack for nitpicking so you can go off topic then blame it on the other guy. That's your problem honestly.

You're telling me there that because the Arabic equivalent of the word "religion" - which is not the English word "religion" - means what you say it means, I'm wrong when in English I use the word "belief" in place of the word "religion".

No, I'm telling you that I wasn't surprised at my friend's explanation because that's COINCIDENTALLY that's how define it in Arabic.

Nothing to do with English.

I'm not. The English word "religion" very specifically deals with belief in deities and is distinct from belief in superstition, ghosts, aliens or that Sheffield Wednesday are not crap. Thus when I use the word "belief" I am accurate.

Specifically or commonly?

You are trying to use the Arabic equivalent of a word to redefine that word in English to suit your argument.Well... you say that everyone has a religion - thanks to your insistence on using a different Arabic word rather than the English word "religion" to define "religion" - and us atheists are telling you that we don't.

Nope. I won't explain how Arabic got in here again, or why. Read above.

In some parts of the world, not believing in the state deity is classed as a mental illness. Here's Nigeria showing exactly this - amusingly in an Islamic province, though this attitude is not exclusive to Islam.

It seems like an amusingly self-completing prophecy - you say you have to be crazy not to have a religion and here we see people who do not have a religion being locked up for being crazy (and boy is he lucky to have been merely locked up).Your friend is wrong. Atheism is not a religion any more than evolutionary theory is a religion - though some atheists (and folk who don't understand evolution) can treat it as one.

Nigeria's definition of mental illness is not the same as mine then. If you have a brain capable of coherent thinking, you have a religion (as my friend says the Greek/Latin define it, and as I know Arabic defines it).

Also, no. I didn't say you have to be crazy not to have a religion (by your definition). If you don't have a religion (by my definition), then you're incapable of coherent thinking. In other words, crazy or mentally ill.

You say my friend is wrong, I can't take your word for it yet. I asked you to wait until he responds so I can see what he meant exactly years ago.

I do not have a religion. Please stop telling me that I do because another language defines an equivalent word to religion differently than the word religion is defined.

I didn't say you have a religion. I'm saying if you call yourself an atheist, you're saying you have a religion (as my friend explained what atheism means and how it came about etc).

 

[Lizard]

This question has been on my mind for a week.

To the Christians out there explain the story of Jesus.

I mean from my point of view the story goes.
God creates Jesus and declares him his son giving him powers to perform miracles etc.
God lets Jesus do his work for him whilst watching him etc.
God then brutally kills him to forgive our sins. I don't get this part. Why did Jesus have to die for this? Surely God could just say you are forgiven? It makes the entire story sound like a game of The Sims. Jesus is God's little play thing which he then kills in a horrid fashion for what appears to be entertainment.

 

[Famine]

Specifically or commonly?

Specifically, because that's the word I used.

Nigeria's definition of mental illness is not the same as mine then. If you have a brain capable of coherent thinking, you have a religion (as my friend says the Greek/Latin define it, and as I know Arabic defines it).

I have a brain capable of coherent thinking. I am an atheist. I do not have a religion. You would describe me as crazy or mentally ill.

Also, no. I didn't say you have to be crazy not to have a religion (by your definition). If you don't have a religion (by my definition), then you're incapable of coherent thinking. In other words, crazy or mentally ill.

I have a brain capable of coherent thinking. I am an atheist. I do not have a religion. You would describe me as crazy or mentally ill.

You say my friend is wrong, I can't take your word for it yet. I asked you to wait until he responds so I can see what he meant exactly years ago.

I didn't say you have a religion. I'm saying if you call yourself an atheist, you're saying you have a religion (as my friend explained what atheism means and how it came about etc).

You don't have to take my word for it - nor anyone else's. We have provided you with independent, third party etymology resources. I'm sure you have access to plenty of them yourself. Religion is, in English, a belief in deities, not a sum total of someone's beliefs and thoughts. Atheism is, in English (and from Greek), the absence of a belief in deities. Atheism is thus not a religion as it is characterised by the exact thing that religion isn't.

How you define atheism and religion is irrelevant. I am an atheist. I do not have a religion. I am of sound mind - but, like Nigeria's Islamic Kano state, you would class me as mentally ill for saying I do not have a religion.


Your definition of religion would, incidentally, extend to many animal species...

 

[BHRxRacer]

Specifically, because that's the word I used.

Citation required.

Wikipedia:
A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence

Since you have a view on how you relate to the order of existence (which is that there is no god, among other beliefs of yours), you have a religion. That's even English...

I have a brain capable of coherent thinking. I am an atheist. I do not have a religion. You would describe me as crazy or mentally ill.

If you are an atheist then you have a religion, thus not mentally ill.

I have a brain capable of coherent thinking. I am an atheist. I do not have a religion. You would describe me as crazy or mentally ill.

If you are an atheist then you have a religion, thus not mentally ill.

Atheism is, in English (and from Greek), the absence of a belief in deities.

That's your interpretation and the interpretation of sources who are also in denial of having a religion.

 

[Famine]

Citation required

Religion, from Old French religion, "piety, devotion; religious community", from Latin religio "respect, reverence or fear of gods, what is sacred".

Wikipedia:
A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence

Since you have a view on how you relate to the order of existence (which is that there is no god, among other beliefs of yours), you have a religion. That's even English...

Apparently you're not reading the word "and", even in your own cherry picked definition...

I don't hold any beliefs, thus I don't have a religion. By your definition.

If you are an atheist then you have a religion, thus not mentally ill.

If you are an atheist then you have a religion, thus not mentally ill.

I do not have a religion. I keep telling you this. Stop claiming that I do.

And that's not a request.

That's your interpretation and the interpretation of sources who are also in denial of having a religion.

No, it's the etymology of the word. How on Earth does etymology be in a state of denial of having a religion?

Theos - Greek, deity
Isma - Greek, doctrine

Theism - Deity doctrine, belief, religion

A - Greek, absence of

Atheism - Absence of belief, religion

 

[jtv90069]

Wikipedia:
A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence

And a little further on in the same article: The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with faith, belief system or sometimes set of duties;[3] however, in the words of Émile Durkheim, religion differs from private belief in that it is "something eminently social".

If I understand what you have been saying correctly, then the number of religions in the world is not approximately 4,200 but about 6 billion or so(how many people are there?).

 

[BHRxRacer]

Religion, from Old French religion, "piety, devotion; religious community", from Latin religio "respect, reverence or fear of gods, what is sacred".

Ahhhh. See? So it's derive from old French. You're devoted to your beliefs, are you not? If so, then you have a religion according to what you just defined.

Apparently you're not reading the word "and", even in your own cherry picked definition...I do not have a religion.

I did read the word and.

Do you have an organized (coherent) collection of beliefs? Check.
Do you have an interpretation of a cultural system(your own utopia)? Check.
Do you have a world view that relates to the order of existence? Check.

According to discrete logic, the word "and" means that if all parameters are true, then the statement is true. In your case, all 3 of them are true. Thus, you have a religion.

I keep telling you this. Stop claiming that I do.

And that's not a request.

You're going to ban me for pointing flaws in your logic? You already locked a thread unnecessarily when all I wanted was to make a poll. If you'd like to muscle me out of this forum, you don't have to ban me. Just tell me to stop posting here

Theos - Greek, deity
Isma - Greek, doctrine

Theism - Deity doctrine, belief, religion

A - Greek, absence of

Atheism - Absence of belief, religion

Rofl. You just slipped that one right in. I laughed, really.

Theos - Greek, deity
Isma - Greek, doctrine

Theism - Deity doctrine, belief, religion

A - Greek, absence of

Atheism - Absence of belief(in a deity), religion

If I understand what you have been saying correctly, then the number of religions in the world is not approximately 4,200 but about 6 billion or so(how many people are there?).

The number of organized/unique religions in the world are approximately 4,200. The number of religions (not organized/unique) are 6 billion.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Famine]

Ahhhh. See? So it's derive from old French. You're devoted to your beliefs, are you not? If so, then you have a religion according to what you just defined.

No. I have no beliefs.

I did read the word and.

Do you have an organized (coherent) collection of beliefs? Check.

So we're done at point one.

According to discrete logic, the word "and" means that if all parameters are true, then the statement is true.

Correct.

In your case, all 3 of them are true. Thus, you have a religion.

Incorrect and thus incorrect.

You're going to ban me for pointing flaws in your logic?

I don't recall saying anything about banning you. I told you to stop insulting me - and others - by claiming I am something I am not.

Your choice.

Rofl. You just slipped that one right in. I laughed, really.

Theos - Greek, deity
Isma - Greek, doctrine

Theism - Deity doctrine, belief, religion

A - Greek, absence of

Atheism - Absence of belief(in a deity), religion

I'm afraid you don't get to annul bits of definitions you don't like. The definition of religion is a belief in deities, so the definition of theism - a belief involving deities - includes religion.

Atheism is still, thus, an absence of belief or religion.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Again, preposterous. @TenEightyOne said that he won't/can't argue Arabic with me. I said it in the Islam thread, there aren't any English-Arabic citations online.

There's plenty of post for other people to work on; but my refusal to argue about Arabic with you (a language I have no knowledge of) isn't in anyway indicative of support of your argument. "There aren't any English-Arabic citations online" seems to hold a partial nod to my statement too; it shouldn't. I have no idea if that's the case but my instinct is that its unlikely.

If you're saying the Arabic definition of the word that you translate as "religion" differs from the definition of the English word "religion"... are you using the right word?

And I saw your response to devotion; I think you're missing a lesson on roots dei- and votive.

I vote, incidentally, I'm not religious. In modern English I'm devoted to my children, I'm not religious.

 

[Scaff]

It's preposterous to have to validate who I am.

Can you validate you're a British citizen? smh

I never asked you to validate who you are, I asked you to provide sources to validate factual claims that you make in regard to the definition of terms.

It does, but I understand how you feel. Don't worry, just a psychological reaction. If it did make sense to you, your life would be a lie. Your subconscious won't allow you to think that

Only if you use the Arabic definition of an Arabic word in place of an English word. Given that to do so is neither accurate nor a valid reply to the question makes it nonsense.

I asked you to define Religion, an English word, I didn't ask you to define a word in any other language.

Again, preposterous. @TenEightyOne said that he won't/can't argue Arabic with me. I said it in the Islam thread, there aren't any English-Arabic citations online. The best I may find are fully Arabic ones, and YOU have no means of translating them so it's pointless. Having worked briefly as an Arabic to English translator myself(citation required too?), I can tell you that even some firms or interpreters haven't got a clue about classical Arabic or etymologies of words. And don't even get me started on google translate.

How do you know I don't have the means to get them translated?

That's a rather bold assumption.

Let me try to shut this thing once and for all before I started losing my temper over an internet forum.

Loose yoru temper here and it will (given you historic disregard for the AUP) be the last thing you do as a member.

1) Arabic is my native language. BUT OH NOZ I HAVE TO SCAN MY PASSPORT TO PROVE IT

2) I aced every (ancient/traditional)Arabic course I took through my education. BUT OH NOZ I HAVE TO EITHER SCAN MY TRANSCRIPTS OR INTERVIEW MY TEACHERS AND SCAN THEIR IDs TO PROVE THEY'RE NOT ACTORS.

3) It's literally how my Islamics university professor* defined it in a lecture, and what was written in the book. It may have been a long, long time ago, but I remember it very well. I'd lended my book to someone and she never gave it back. If you insist, I'll make a broadcast in an old group and see if anyone has a copy.


WHAT DO YOU KNOW

http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/دين_(معتقد)


I love how it literally says دين(معتقد) س , or Religion(belief) at the title. Proves what I said to @Famine , when I said his definitions would be accurate if he replaced "belief" with religion".


الدين، مصطلح يطلق على مجموعة من الأفكار والعقائد التي توضح بحسب معتنقيها الغاية من الحياة الكون، كما يعرّف عادة بأنه الاعتقاد المرتبط بما وراء الطبيعة الإلهيات، كما يرتبط بالأخلاق [1]، الممارسات والمؤسسات المرتبطة بذلك الاعتقاد. وبالمفهوم الواسع، عرّفه البعض على أنه المجموع العام للإجابات التي تفسر علاقة البشر بالكون.

Religion, a term given to the collection of ideas and beliefs that define one's purpose in life, interaction with the universe (with other humans, animals, plants, trees, space. Universe =/= space. "Universe" in Arabic originally means "becoming" or "creation"), morality and practices. It is commonly associated with supernaturals and theology. It is broadly definied as the set of answers that explains a humans relationship to the universe (see above for what universe means).


Also love how the English wikipedia uses the term "world views"


TLDR Religion = collection of inter-related beliefs you use to go about your day.

*Before anybody makes an ass of himself and assumes I was a religion major, I wasn't. We have a mandatory Islamics course for all students.

Great. Shame I didn't ask you to define that.

If they affect how you go about your life, yes.

Why?

Semantics, you know what I meant. Don't nitpick, you're better than that.

No its accuracy, and as a difference exists it far from semantics.

You're not implying I'm religious are you?

Actually you're the one making that claim.

A brain.

Why and how?

 

[TheDrummingKING]

@BHRxRacer, I think I know what the problem is.

You're trying to use definitions of Arabic words to re-define English words. You can't do that. The Arabic equivalent to the word religion includes world views and such, and that would be fine in this case if this discussion was taking place fully in Arabic, but it's not. We're not discussing in Arabic; we're discussing in English and as such it is appropriate to use English definitions of English words, not (translated to) English definitions of equivalent Arabic words.

I won't go into specifics, but in (probably most of) the English speaking world "religion" refers to some form of devoted following of some diety. Using that it's fairly easy to understand why Atheism (in English) simply is not a religion.

 

[dddsprayshop]

After reading all intellectual postings.Woehoe, look at it, words i never seen yet...

I still don't believe in (a) god.
I only read politics with fancy words in this topic now.

Come on, get to the end allready.
Candidates for president finished much faster.

 

[Scaff]

@BHRxRacer, I think I know what the problem is.

You're trying to use definitions of Arabic words to re-define English words. You can't do that. The Arabic equivalent to the word religion includes world views and such, and that would be fine in this case if this discussion was taking place fully in Arabic, but it's not. We're not discussing in Arabic; we're discussing in English and as such it is appropriate to use English definitions of English words, not (translated to) English definitions of equivalent Arabic words.

I won't go into specifics, but in (probably most of) the English speaking world "religion" refers to some form of devoted following of some diety. Using that it's fairly easy to understand why Atheism (in English) simply is not a religion.

While you are quite right on the core point of language (as I raised the same issue) I am still unconvinced by the claim that the Arabic equivalent omits the requirement for a deity to be involved and is so simple as to just be world view = a religion.

Now while the following are only two references, they do carry a common theme for what I found so far:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dīn
http://www.learndeen.com/jm/deen-islam/aqueeda-a-tawheed/36/172-deen-ul-islam.html

Now they could of course both be wrong (along with all the others) but I'm going to need some support to such a claim, as they do expand the definition of religion to encompass a much wider world-view, but they still require faith in a deity as a core fundamental value.

 

[Liquid]

Given the penchant for theocracy in the Arabic speaking world, it would not surprise me that the Arabic word for "religion" incorporates a 'world view' into its definition.

 

[Imari]

@BHRxRacer

Quite aside from all the definitions bollocks, do you think that it is impossible for a person to live with no beliefs?

If so, then there's a bigger divide here than simply not understanding what some words mean when they're used accurately. If you don't understand how someone could live without beliefs, you cannot understand atheism, period.

 

[BHRxRacer]

I have no beliefs.

/facepalm

Then explain this:

Atheism = No belief in god/s

"No belief in god/s" is a belief itself.

I don't recall saying anything about banning you.

"This is not a request" and "Your choice."

What'd you mean by that? Are they not threats?

There's plenty of post for other people to work on; but my refusal to argue about Arabic with you (a language I have no knowledge of) isn't in anyway indicative of support of your argument.

When was anybody here was supporting any of my arguments anyway? I know it isn't, sorry if I implied it is.

"There aren't any English-Arabic citations online" seems to hold a partial nod to my statement too; it shouldn't. I have no idea if that's the case but my instinct is that its unlikely.

Let me rephrase then. There aren't any half-accurate English-Arabic citations online. I know that because pretty much everything members here cited are incredibly inaccurate and when I try to cite something myself, I find nothing but forum posts or inaccurate blogs/websites.

If you're saying the Arabic definition of the word that you translate as "religion" differs from the definition of the English word "religion"... are you using the right word?

Yes. The word is دين pronounced deen/dean. Feel free to suggest a different word.

In modern English I'm devoted to my children, I'm not religious.

If your devotion to your children dictates your world views or your practices, then you have a religion. That's what I'm saying.

I never asked you to validate who you are,

You asked to validate who my friend is, which is worse.

"So we simply have to take your word on his qualifications do we?" - You

I asked you to define Religion, an English word, I didn't ask you to define a word in any other language.

Yes you did. You asked me to define religion full stop. That implies, you want to know what I think is religion (regardless of the language).

How do you know I don't have the means to get them translated?

That's a rather bold assumption.

Did you not read the post? Google translate won't help you, and professional translators in the field are often incompetent. Unless you know a professional, and you're certain he's competent, and ask for his help, you really have no means.

Do you know one?

Loose yoru temper here and it will (given you historic disregard for the AUP) be the last thing you do as a member.

That's not nice of you giving threats like that.

Great. Shame I didn't ask you to define that.

Are you intentionally being dishonest or did the following slip your mind?

Citation required.




Citation required.

^^ you asked TWICE in one post.

Actually you're the one making that claim.

I'm making the claim that all of us are religious by my definition, you implied that I'm religious by your definition. In other words, you implied that I believe in a deity. Did you not?

Why and how?

See the arguments with famine about metal soundness.

I won't go into specifics, but in (probably most of) the English speaking world "religion" refers to some form of devoted following of some diety. Using that it's fairly easy to understand why Atheism (in English) simply is not a religion.

In mainstream English yes. That's why I asked if he meant commenly or specifically. Commonly, religion implies a belief in a deity. I'm fully aware of that. Technically though, as far as I gather from the etymology of the word religion in English (coincidentally the Arabic equivalent as well), and even the Wikipedia definition, Religion doesn't necessarily involve a deity.

While you are quite right on the core point of language (as I raised the same issue) I am still unconvinced by the claim that the Arabic equivalent omits the requirement for a deity to be involved and is so simple as to just be world view = a religion.

Now while the following are only two references, they do carry a common theme for what I found so far:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dīn
http://www.learndeen.com/jm/deen-islam/aqueeda-a-tawheed/36/172-deen-ul-islam.html

Now they could of course both be wrong (along with all the others) but I'm going to need some support to such a claim, as they do expand the definition of religion to encompass a much wider world-view, but they still require faith in a deity as a core fundamental value.

Ha, so you just asked a 3rd time. Marvelous.

What will it take to convince you that the Arabic equivalent does not necessarily involve a deity? Dude, send me your address in a private message and I'll ship you the book as soon as I find a copy. From there, you are free to hand it to competent professionals to translate it for you.

edit

@BHRxRacer

Quite aside from all the definitions bollocks, do you think that it is impossible for a person to live with no beliefs?

If so, then there's a bigger divide here than simply not understanding what some words mean when they're used accurately. If you don't understand how someone could live without beliefs, you cannot understand atheism, period.

Almost liked the post until the last sentence.

Define belief.

@Scaff

الدِين أو الدِيانة, من دان خضع وذل ودان بكذا فهي ديانة وهو دين، وتديّن به فهو متديّن, إذا أطلق يراد به: ما يتديّن به البشر، ويدين به من اعتقاد وسلوك؛ بمعنى آخر، هو طاعة المرء والتزامه لما يعتنقه من فكر ومبادئ.
http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/دين_(م...B1.D9.8A.D9.81_.D8.A7.D9.84.D8.AF.D9.8A.D9.86
From wikipedia arabic.

Translate that.

 

[Spurgy 777]

"No belief in god/s" is a belief itself.

How can you not see how obviously wrong this is?

 

[BHRxRacer]

How can you not see how obviously wrong this is?

Because if one thinks an idea/proposition/statement is 100%, it is a belief. Famine (and other atheists) are convinced 100% that there is no god. That means it's a belief of theirs.

Please educate me. What does belief mean in English?