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Do you believe in God?
- Thread starter Patrik
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- mazdarota122
Nice coverage I love the question to be honest let me start by saying I'm not a big reader on the bible but I need to.Now in the first chapter of the bible it say's god created sun moon and beloved earth,also many people believe that there was once life on earth before it can be created.Another thing many scientists believethat in order for earth to be created the once was a living thing(cell)that died and made another wich was earth.I love god because he created me also he's there when my back is against the wall also when im at the wrong place at the wrong time he covers my with his guardian angel.Something that god did for me ? let me see?? um he did die for me way back on calvary thats one most important thing god has given me also he loves me . He blesses me and guess what all it takes is a prayer also he blessed me with a shelter to live in (house) clothes on my back and nothin but love from my family.I truly don't want to get into the thing of why i believe jesus is black because i truly don't have enough info. and also i could be wrong he may be white also either way i love him.Also I'll get back to your question on him being black and there's much more god did for me.He has blessed me more than all the words on this site.And it's no ones world BUT THE LORD.I don't want to attack your beliefs, but to have a good argument.
Why exactly you love him? What has he done for you that wasn't caused by someone else? What proofe you have that specificalyl "Jesus" is the one, and only, almighty creator and owner of our world?
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Does that mean you're a creationist, mazdaman?
Ok I see what your saying if that means do I believe god created earth yes but I also believe science plays a roll in it to.
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There are many different definitons of a creationist. The most common one is that God created the world less than 6,000 years ago. Personally I find this myth (note the use of the word "myth") a complete load of bullcrap. I can't respect someone if they think God created the universe and everything inside it in just 6 days. If someone's going to ignore what scientists say and instead listen to a myth that has been around for longer than the Abrahamic religions and was put together by people who would blindly accept that any unexplainable phenomena in their time, such as the creation of the Earth, was thanks to a higher power, I can't respect that person.
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Well if you can't respect me for that then so be it your entitled to your belifs and so am I,and I don't believe everything scientists say.
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Joey D
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Mazdaman, try to use half way decent grammar man, I'm having a hard time trying to follow what you're saying.
And you go to church for what? To know God created that world and gave you everything? But how can you be sure the church knows what it's talking about?
And you go to church for what? To know God created that world and gave you everything? But how can you be sure the church knows what it's talking about?
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Sir,trust me my church know's what he is talking about my church is the most known church nationwide.But also im a baptist and the all of the pastors have studied the bible in and out.My point is I believe in god and no other than that do you?Also most of you make the bible seem it's full of garbage that's like me questioning the rasta spiritual belief.
Joey D
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How can you be sure? All churches claim to know what they are talking about, when the fact is no church really has any evidence to say their views are any more correct then views from any another religion.
Leaders of any religious organisation have studied the religious text inside and out so I don't see what makes Baptist pastors so special in that area. An Episcopal priest that I know has a Ph.D. in theology, I'm fairly sure that means he's studied the Bible inside and out.
As for me, I don't believe or disbelieve in a supernatural being. There is no evidence to show me one way or another, although I tend to lean more towards the "does not exist" side of things.
Believing in a supernatural being is fine, like I said there is no way to know. However, if you do believe and you are going to give your opinion on the matter you should be able to defend it and explain why you believe the way you do.
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Dear Lord.
People, Jesus was a Jew. Get over it.
He was Jewish when he was born, he was Jewish when he died. And I'm pretty sure that another 2000 years from now, he'll still be Jewish. Not Negro, not Caucasian, not Oriental, not Polynesian, not Aborigine. Sorry.
(Yes, we had blue-eyed white Jesus posters all over the place back in my Catholic High School days... something which I only now, at twice the age I was when I graduated, am starting to find funny...)
- 919
In lieu of that, I would ask what you think would be adequate evidence to persuade you, personally, of God's existence? Hopefully you will not be silly but really think about this one. Still, if you want to be silly, go ahead, it's easier, and I won't really mind because this is only a small issue for me.
Also, I would question whether God (if he exists) is omnipotent. It might be entertained that God actually lacks free will, and can only do what he does do. The lion does usually not sit down with the lamb, nor a tiger change his stripes (except through evolution)
In any case, humans do have free will. If God bludgeons people with overly dramatic and intrusive experiences and interventions in an effort to force his will on reluctant people, that would be cheating and constitute a violation of human free will by force, thereby defeating his own purpose of bring people to the light by means involving choice, love and healing benefits.
Note: I am not a proponent of God, religion, or any particular interpretation of the complex events at Fatima. That the events occurred is beyond dispute and people can and should educate themselves about it. I would be happy to cite important sources, as there are zillions, mostly poorish, out there.
In modest advocacy,
Dotini
I think I may have answered your first question - what I'd constitute as proof of God's existence - before, but it may have been in another thread. In the last few posts I sarcastically say that God should easily be able to overwhelm my standards of evidence - he is, after all, God - but in all seriousness I think it's actually a flawed question. My justification, at first glance, may appear similar to the argument from the video a few pages back, but rest assured this is not the case.
God, by the standards that man generally understands him, could not prove his own existence. If he physically stepped onto the mortal plane and interacted on a personal level with man, he would either cease to be God, or demonstrate that he was never God in the first place. He would simply be a sentient being far more powerful than man. The survival of the very concept of God demands that he remain obscured from direct observation. In other words, don't open the Ark, Indy.
In this vein, I'd say that such a being would obviously not be omnipotent, as he'd have opened himself up to direct observation, which cannot speak to omni-anything except, in very abstract terms, mathematically.
Dotini
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Thanks for a thoughtful response, Crafty.
There is a class of people who do come to accept the existence of of God or some higher power or plane than Man's. These are the NDE's, or near-death experiencers. The classic case is when a person clinically dies on a hospital bed (no breathing, no pulse, etc.,) and some time later unexpectedly revives and come backs to life only to report a now familiar story. This has occurred thousands of time and a whole genre of literature and funded medical research now exists to study and understand it.
During the NDE, the person typically reports rising above his body laying dead on the hospital bed. He may note the words of conversation spoken by the living over his dead body, as well as words and numbers written on his chart and in places he would never have had access to, such as the tops of filing cabinets. Many clinics place such things there deliberately in order to obtain better research into these events. Shortly, he travels down a tunnel and emerges into a place of bright, beautiful light. Feelings of fear are overcome with feelings of great joy and peace. A calm and beautiful being may greet this traveler, and he may be taken on a tour of the universe with all its galaxies and nebulae revealed in exquisite detail. Meetings with departed relatives and loved ones may be involved, where important information is exchanged. During these events, it will be explained to our traveler that his mission on Earth is not yet complete, and with regret, he returns to his body which is reanimated. Our traveler will often make a full recovery, and will become a person greatly changed for the better; more calm, more spiritual, more loving. His relations with others will improve, and he will improve his own life, perhaps giving up vices and taking on good works or altruistic causes.
This is the most typical reported experience, but there are variations. Some have reported a negative experience.
As can be imagined, an experience like this will tend to make the atheist or agnostic think a little more about life, death, and what comes next. It has all the hallmarks of a true religious experience. Death is overcome. veridical information, previously unknown, is obtained. A human life is remarkably transformed for the better. What's not to like?
I can see this as an empirical, convincing way to accept God or something higher than man. A 300,000 foot tall man thumping his sandal at the UN is silly, and neither required nor in any way desired by anyone.
Respectfully,
Dotini
There is a class of people who do come to accept the existence of of God or some higher power or plane than Man's. These are the NDE's, or near-death experiencers. The classic case is when a person clinically dies on a hospital bed (no breathing, no pulse, etc.,) and some time later unexpectedly revives and come backs to life only to report a now familiar story. This has occurred thousands of time and a whole genre of literature and funded medical research now exists to study and understand it.
During the NDE, the person typically reports rising above his body laying dead on the hospital bed. He may note the words of conversation spoken by the living over his dead body, as well as words and numbers written on his chart and in places he would never have had access to, such as the tops of filing cabinets. Many clinics place such things there deliberately in order to obtain better research into these events. Shortly, he travels down a tunnel and emerges into a place of bright, beautiful light. Feelings of fear are overcome with feelings of great joy and peace. A calm and beautiful being may greet this traveler, and he may be taken on a tour of the universe with all its galaxies and nebulae revealed in exquisite detail. Meetings with departed relatives and loved ones may be involved, where important information is exchanged. During these events, it will be explained to our traveler that his mission on Earth is not yet complete, and with regret, he returns to his body which is reanimated. Our traveler will often make a full recovery, and will become a person greatly changed for the better; more calm, more spiritual, more loving. His relations with others will improve, and he will improve his own life, perhaps giving up vices and taking on good works or altruistic causes.
This is the most typical reported experience, but there are variations. Some have reported a negative experience.
As can be imagined, an experience like this will tend to make the atheist or agnostic think a little more about life, death, and what comes next. It has all the hallmarks of a true religious experience. Death is overcome. veridical information, previously unknown, is obtained. A human life is remarkably transformed for the better. What's not to like?
I can see this as an empirical, convincing way to accept God or something higher than man. A 300,000 foot tall man thumping his sandal at the UN is silly, and neither required nor in any way desired by anyone.
Respectfully,
Dotini
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Does it matter what color he was if we are to regard his character? No.
Does it matter what color he was if we are trying to find the historical Jesus? Yes.
Jesus claims direct descent from David. He would most likely be of Hebraic descent, given that both of his parents were Jewish.
And definitely not white. So to say that you believe in him whether he's white or black is already starting off on the wrong foot, because he was definitely not white.
And Jesus is not God. He has never described himself as being God. Only as a "Son of God" and a "Way to God" or "One with God" (But then, grokk it, aren't we all?). It's only through interpretation of his purported words that generations of Christians have cast divinity upon him.
Simply because when he said such-and-such in such a way that if you turn the book sideways and read it just so, he is implying that he is God... not that he ever says it, you know... because that would be too obvious.
God, you've just got to love Catholic sunday school... all the questions that you're teachers can't answer...
"How can they be the same person?"
- It's a mystery, take it on faith!
"How do the bread and wine turn into flesh and blood?"
- Transmutation! It's a miracle!
"Why doesn't it taste like blood?"
- ...
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I don't think I could go that long without washing my hair.
On the more serious side... there is some truth to the idea that the West has corrupted the teachings of Christ... aside from that, it's a religion, just like any other Judaic-Christian religion. Only with better music, more emphasis on spirituality and with ganja.
Hmmm... if you get to carry a dagger to school because it's part of your religion... why not weed?
(No, I don't like taking or smoking mind altering substances, but I'm totally okay with other people smoking the stuff...)
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So you go to church to have them make you believe that God gave you everything? What if you... just didn't go to church? After all, that is entirely optional and your choice. If you chose not to, would you then not believe in God because they wouldn't be telling you to?
And no, I do not believe in god in any form.
The Bible is full of garbage. Some useful parables and pointers, yes, but tons of garbage too.
And you should question the Rasta spiritual belief. Everyone should question all spiritual beliefs.
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Everyone should question everything. Then we would realize why today's world is so messed up.
Personally, this discussion has made me believe even more in my Agnosticism. It's all and none religions at the same time. There's a superior entity? Perhaps, I can't know. It's X, Y, or Z? Don't know, but I won't be it's servant anyway...
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Everyone should question everything. Then we would realize why today's world is so messed up.
Agreed! I'm just used to understanding that science does question everything (including itself) all the time. Thanks for clarifying 👍
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You've touched on an interesting topic, I think. The common imagery described by so many who have experienced "NDE's" would certainly seem strange on the surface, but as you've said, there's a lot of research devoted to it. One of the avenues of research that yields the most fascinating observations regards a hallucinogenic variety of mint, called Salvia Divinorum. Historically, it's a shamanistic substance, but in a modern context, it tends to produce very similar hallucinogenic experiences among all users, some of which include "a bright light at the end of the tunnel", a feeling of transcendence, and physical detachment from one's own body. Likewise, it seems to produce either incredibly positive, attitude-changing effects, or exactly the opposite - a feeling of sinking failure and damnation.
This is all based on unverifiable claims of experience, but what's interesting to note is that neurochemical conditions in the brain of a user under the influence of Salvia appear to be nearly identical to the neurochemical conditions of a human brain at the threshold of death.
I'd conclude from the fact that its "symptomology" can be replicated chemically, that it's far more likely that NDE's are of completely natural neurophysical origin.
Dotini
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That explanation does not confront the problem of veridical information acquired during the near-death state. But whatever. I have not had such an experience, so I can not personally claim empirical evidence. I merely broached the subject as an example of an experience that others have had which made them believe in God or a higher power.
DMT is another drug which has interesting properties...
I believe shamans under the influence of (?) have been able to acquire veridical information in the trance state, as well as have remote viewers at SRI (Stanford Research Institute) and in the US Army Stargate program (discussed in the Aliens thread). Meditation and common prayer are interesting forms of altering reality in their own right.
We live in a wonderful world, full of charming mysteries and unexplored delights.
DMT is another drug which has interesting properties...
I believe shamans under the influence of (?) have been able to acquire veridical information in the trance state, as well as have remote viewers at SRI (Stanford Research Institute) and in the US Army Stargate program (discussed in the Aliens thread). Meditation and common prayer are interesting forms of altering reality in their own right.
We live in a wonderful world, full of charming mysteries and unexplored delights.
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Danoff
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