Do you believe in God?

[UKMikey]

The Pope or the Christian church has nothing to do with "god", whatever or however you want to define it. Christianity is simply a religion, and just like many other religions uses the term "god" or "God" as a basic concept or idea that most other religions share, just that other religions may use different words or terms to point to the same basic concept or idea.

The Pope has no real authority to determine what "god's" will is than any of the rest of us do.

That's what she said.

It's convenient that the people who claim to be God's ultimate authority on Earth are just misunderstood LARPers on those occasions when they get it wrong and yet to Him be the glory if they happen to call it right, though.

 

[Dotini]

The Pope or the Christian church has nothing to do with "god", whatever or however you want to define it. Christianity is simply a religion, and just like many other religions uses the term "god" or "God" as a basic concept or idea that most other religions share, just that other religions may use different words or terms to point to the same basic concept or idea.

The Pope has no real authority to determine what "god's" will is than any of the rest of us do.

Pope Boniface VIII claimed authority over every person on Earth. Philip, King of France disagreed, and this pope died screaming. Clement V was far more evil and effective. But he died screaming too, accursed by Jacque DeMolay.

 

[UKMikey]

Pope Boniface VIII claimed authority over every person on Earth. Philip, King of France disagreed, and this pope died screaming. Clement V was far more evil and effective. But he died screaming too, accursed by Jacque DeMolay.

That's funny, Britannica says Philip's thugs beat Boniface but he didn't die until three weeks later and that Clement V died from cancer. Nothing in their encyclopaedia entries suggests either of them died screaming. They don't even make the top ten grisliest papal deaths as per history.com.

10 Grisly Papal Deaths | HISTORY

From crucifixion to suffocation, poisoning to beheading and stoning to starvation, check out 10 particularly gruesome deaths suffered by popes in the early history of the Catholic Church.

www.history.com

 

[Dotini]

That's funny, Britannica says Philip's thugs beat Boniface but he didn't die until three weeks later and that Clement V died from cancer. Nothing in their encyclopaedia entries suggests either of them died screaming. They don't even make the top ten grisliest papal deaths as per history.com.

10 Grisly Papal Deaths | HISTORY

From crucifixion to suffocation, poisoning to beheading and stoning to starvation, check out 10 particularly gruesome deaths suffered by popes in the early history of the Catholic Church.

www.history.com

I received my story from a 1989 book by John J Robinson. Likely Britannica is the better source. Thanks for checking!

 

[Imari]

You forget that according to religion everything is made for their (humanity's) benefit. They believe they are the center of the world.

All religions? Every single one? Or just the Abrahamic ones?

You might find that there's a greater range of religions out there than you think. They're not all "Sky Daddy created a universe just for me and the rest of humanity".

You can't just say words, then redefine their meaning to whatever suits your needs. A person's immediate surrounding is the area they spend their life in, not the entire universe, which the post you were responding to stated.

The trees and buildings were examples and obviously not the whole extent of one's surroundings. Stop twisting things.

How does an optometrist even come into the picture, when we are contemplating the size of the universe?

In which case I stick to my statement that anyone who hasn't had the thought "I am small and other things are big" by about age 10 is either profoundly lacking imagination or lacks any sort of awareness of their surroundings. Or needs glasses. You don't need to even be aware that the solar system exists to be humbled by how small you are compared to a mountain, or an ocean, or a big building or a vast desert or a raging storm.

I'm not suggesting that people who trundle through life blithely ignoring the fact that they are surrounded by bigness on a daily basis don't exist or even that there isn't a lot of them. Just that not noticing that you as a human are relatively small betrays a complete ignorance of basically everything that isn't the smell of your own farts.

 

[Liquid]

The Pope or the Christian church has nothing to do with "god"

If you were Catholic you wouldn't say that; Catholic dogma holds that the Pope is the direct successor to Jesus Christ through Saint Peter.

But then again, if you're Protestant or Orthodox, that's the wrong type of Christianity.

If you're Orthodox or Catholic, Protestantism is the wrong type of Christianity.

And if you're Catholic or Protestant, Orthodox is the wrong type of Christianity.

And if...

And if... ...

And if... ... ...

 

[UKMikey]

If you were Catholic you wouldn't say that; Catholic dogma holds that the Pope is the direct successor to Jesus Christ through Saint Peter.

But then again, if you're Protestant or Orthodox, that's the wrong type of Christianity.

If you're Orthodox or Catholic, Protestantism is the wrong type of Christianity.

And if you're Catholic or Protestant, Orthodox is the wrong type of Christianity.

And if...

And if... ...

And if... ... ...

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him off the bridge.

 

[Chris30]

What I meant several days ago was that me and my family used to deal with Jewish groups, then in 2010 we switched to being Christians. We still participate in church activities once a week.

 

[m76]

All religions? Every single one? Or just the Abrahamic ones?

Are you making a sport out of it? I mean taking words then interpreting them in the worst possible way, then think you have a gotcha! moment. Instead of going with the obvious interpretation.

You might find that there's a greater range of religions out there than you think. They're not all "Sky Daddy created a universe just for me and the rest of humanity".

Yes there are thousands of religions, some of which does not teach creationism. Was this relevant to my point? Absolutely not.

In which case I stick to my statement that anyone who hasn't had the thought "I am small and other things are big" by about age 10 is either profoundly lacking imagination or lacks any sort of awareness of their surroundings. Or needs glasses. You don't need to even be aware that the solar system exists to be humbled by how small you are compared to a mountain, or an ocean, or a big building or a vast desert or a raging storm.

You can't just ignore every point I made and double down on your original claim

I'm not suggesting that people who trundle through life blithely ignoring the fact that they are surrounded by bigness on a daily basis don't exist or even that there isn't a lot of them. Just that not noticing that you as a human are relatively small betrays a complete ignorance of basically everything that isn't the smell of your own farts.

You might find that most of humanity is just trudging through life completely oblivious to anything but number one. And I'm not saying that's a good thing, that's just how it is. So you should be more appreciative when someone actually stops and thinks about their place in the universe. Better late that never.

 

[Ghost Lap]

If god or God, or Allah, or Krishna or whatever you want to call it, word it, or label it as is real. If it is real, I bet it's having a right old chuckle at this thread.

 

[MatskiMonk]

If it is real, I bet it's having a right old chuckle at this thread.

Must be a good distraction for our Christian God, from the massive amounts of child sexual abuse that is enabled under his stewardship.

 

[TexRex]

Nobody:

Nobody at all:

Not one ****ing person:

Dotini:

Pope Boniface VIII claimed authority over every person on Earth. Philip, King of France disagreed, and this pope died screaming. Clement V was far more evil and effective. But he died screaming too, accursed by Jacque DeMolay.

 

[JKgo]

I read Dotini's post in the Monty Python narrator's voice. Now that's funny. And I'm imagining the Curb Your Enthusiasm soundtrack kicking in as soon as the narration ends. Pure gold.

 

[Ghost Lap]

Must be a good distraction for our Christian God, from the massive amounts of child sexual abuse that is enabled under his stewardship.

Oh so it's your Christian God is it, I see now.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Oh so it's your Christian God is it, I see now.

Well, mostly not mine, but we are a typically Christian nation under the irremovable rule of the Defender of the Faith and Supreme Governor of the Church of England (a.k.a. Queen Lizzie), and we do have 26 unelected Lords Spiritual as part of our unelected upper house, and guess what, they're all Christian... so, much as I might choose to accept the lack of evidence for Big G, I'm forced to accept that Christianity still infects our nation at its highest levels, and it's the associated power bestowed on those that choose to manipulate it for their own sexual gratification that I'd have a problem with... most Christians aren't Paedophiles, I acknowledge that.

Church of England failures 'allowed child sexual abusers to hide'

The Church describes its "shame" over the failings detailed in a "shocking" report into sexual abuse.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Ghost Lap]

Well, mostly not mine, but we are a typically Christian nation under the irremovable rule of the Defender of the Faith and Supreme Governor of the Church of England (a.k.a. Queen Lizzie), and we do have 26 unelected Lords Spiritual as part of our unelected upper house, and guess what, they're all Christian... so, much as I might choose to accept the lack of evidence for Big G, I'm forced to accept that Christianity still infects our nation at its highest levels, and it's the associated power bestowed on those that choose to manipulate it for their own sexual gratification that I'd have a problem with... most Christians aren't Paedophiles, I acknowledge that.

Church of England failures 'allowed child sexual abusers to hide'

The Church describes its "shame" over the failings detailed in a "shocking" report into sexual abuse.

www.bbc.co.uk

There's all sorts of abuse going on almost everywhere that you would probably never know about, that's the world we live in I'm afraid, has always been like this.

 

[MatskiMonk]

There's all sorts of abuse going on almost everywhere that you would probably never know about, that's the world we live in I'm afraid, has always been like this.

Guess its okay then.

 

[Ghost Lap]

Guess its okay then.

I never suggested that, I just said that it is the world we live in whether we like it or not.

 

[Liquid]

There's all sorts of abuse going on almost everywhere that you would probably never know about, that's the world we live in I'm afraid, has always been like this.

We know about this abuse now though.

 

[Ghost Lap]

We know about this abuse now though.

I don't think it's going to go anywhere anytime soon though, abuse is really just a part of life as a human I guess. I've been on both the giving end but mostly the receiving end of abuse at many points throughout my life, and I'm sure that most of us here also have been on both ends at some point.

 

[Danoff]

I don't think it's going to go anywhere anytime soon though, abuse is really just a part of life as a human I guess. I've been on both the giving end but mostly the receiving end of abuse at many points throughout my life, and I'm sure that most of us here also have been on both ends at some point.

The goal is to reduce the abuse.

 

[Ghost Lap]

The goal is to reduce the abuse.

And let's hope that it does reduce.

 

[Famine]

The goal is to reduce the abuse.

... aboot this hoose.

 

[Imari]

Are you making a sport out of it? I mean taking words then interpreting them in the worst possible way, then think you have a gotcha! moment. Instead of going with the obvious interpretation.

How about you just say what you mean instead of making me read your mind and interpret your comments? If you say "religions" it's not at all clear whether that should be read as "Christianity" or "Abrahamic religions" or "all religions".

Don't get your panties in a bunch with me just because you can't write clearly.

Yes there are thousands of religions, some of which does not teach creationism. Was this relevant to my point? Absolutely not.

It is if you're claiming that all religious people think that they're the centre of the world. Some do. Some don't. The statement as you wrote it was false.

You can't just ignore every point I made and double down on your original claim

The points like flat earthers existing? Dealt with. I didn't claim that there aren't people who are unimaginative and stupid, just that clearing the bar that unimaginative and stupid people set shouldn't be considered a notable achievement.

You seem to think otherwise. Interesting.

You might find that most of humanity is just trudging through life completely oblivious to anything but number one. And I'm not saying that's a good thing, that's just how it is. So you should be more appreciative when someone actually stops and thinks about their place in the universe. Better late that never.

You can give them a gold star if you want. I think we have divergent views of humanity here. I tend to think that most people are pretty self-aware, no matter how down-trodden they get. That's been my experience with the people that I've interacted with - even when getting stomped by the system we can see how that's mostly due to us individually being such tiny parts of a whole. And we can reach out to others for help and support, and even though then we're just a small group of tiny parts it feels better to know that there's others out there that feel the same. We think about what's going on around us to better understand our place, and hopefully what we can do to make things better for ourselves and those around us.

You seem to think that everyone is a rugged individualist ignoring everyone and everything that isn't themselves, never even stopping to think about basic properties of the world around them. I can only assume that this is due to your personal experience with the world and other people. I'm sorry that you had to go through that, but you should know that it's not a universal phenomenon.

If you want to define that as the baseline by which achievement should be recognised, I think that's kind of sad. If you're living somewhere where that's the way all the people around you behave, that's pretty grim. I don't believe that to be the general case throughout humanity, and I certainly choose not to draw the baseline for self-awareness at recognising that a human is a relatively small thing.

Ultimately, I choose to believe that humanity is not in general a pack of selfish, greedy, ignorant arseholes, and I'm not going to laud anyone who .

I never suggested that, I just said that it is the world we live in whether we like it or not.

You never suggested that it was okay?

Okay let me break it down for you. I acknowledge that suffering is a part of reality, do I like it? No, but the fact is is that people experience suffering. I'd like to believe that God allows for people to suffer ultimately for a greater good, so I guess you could say that I'm not advocating for it, but clearly God is because suffering happens.

The idea that there is a greater good is certainly a suggestion that suffering should be considered to be okay.

 

[Ghost Lap]

You never suggested that it was okay?

The idea that there is a greater good is certainly a suggestion that suffering should be considered to be okay.

From my POV it's obviously not okay, but from the POV of god it's for the greater good. That's just my philosophy, does that clarify things for you?

 

[Imari]

From my POV it's obviously not okay, but from the POV of god it's for the greater good. That's just my philosophy, does that clarify things for you?

And given this discrepancy of viewpoint between you and god, whose opinion do you think should take precedence in the matter?

 

[Scaff]

but from the POV of god it's for the greater good.

Who's greater good? The individual, gods, or the wider world?

 

[Ghost Lap]

And given this discrepancy of viewpoint between you and god, whose opinion do you think should take precedence in the matter?

Clearly god's viewpoint, god by definition has no higher authority apart from itself.

 

[Danoff]

Clearly god's viewpoint, god by definition has no higher authority apart from itself.

Do you think that anyone who is more powerful than you should have authority over you?

 

[Dotini]

Clearly god's viewpoint, god by definition has no higher authority apart from itself.

As far as we can tell, there is no other universe than this, and no higher authority than its supposed creator and architect. But there are limits on what we know, and on what we can know. Perhaps it's possible that "god" creates its own higher authority? I submit that's what happens when "god" shares the consciousness - the experiences - of the living beings of this evolving universe. In such a way "god" learns what it's like to be subject to authority, and to exercise authority over others.