Do you believe in God?

[Sam48]

A peaceful species,

Have you ever heard the saying, "You can never be happy unless you know what it's like to be sad"?

Same thing in this scenario

 

[Tic Tach]

Or another way I heard it: "Without the sorrows of life, there would be no joys"

 

[Sam48]

I like that one better.

 

[homeforsummer]

What would we be without evil?

Happy?

Have you ever heard the saying, "You can never be happy unless you know what it's like to be sad"?

Same thing in this scenario

I see where you're coming from, but sadness isn't necessarily the result of evil. Evil goes much deeper than occasional sadness.

 

[Touring Mars]

I like that one better.

Me too.. it's a good way of describing the human condition, and yet it says nothing about the existence of God.

 

[Mr. S]

So, what's YOUR reason to believe in god? Just because your parents told you god exist when you were little?

My mum tried that and I just found that all the people working for the church are hypocrites in my hometown. Priests are having kids and such...whilst the protestant pastor (is it called pastor?) was married and kind of cool. He used to invite random children to play Mario Kart on his Super Nintendo. The church isn't "bad" per se but the people working for said church tend to use stuff like "It's the will of god!" to turn people around.

 

[Sam48]

I see where you're coming from, but sadness isn't necessarily the result of evil. Evil goes much deeper than occasional sadness.

It's a direct correlation. Replace "joy" and "sorrows" with "good" and "evil".

It's the same message.

 

[dylansan]

So, shouldn't we be thanking Satan for allowing us to experience joy?

 

[theotherspongey]

So, shouldn't we be thanking Satan for allowing us to experience joy?

Satan doesnt exist.

 

[Sam48]

So, shouldn't we be thanking Satan for allowing us to experience joy?

With or without some ultimate form of "evil", it would still exist.

 

[Joey D]

So, what's YOUR reason to believe in god? Just because your parents told you god exist when you were little?

The more I think about the supernatural, the more I think something exists on a higher level of consciousness then the human mind. I'm not sure what that is, but I think it's something. I used to be a pretty firm atheist and I thought the belief in the supernatural was pure rubbish, then I began to reflect on my life and questions I had. This left a lot of opennings which made me start to question atheism in general and left me with the notion of I just don't know what's out there. Now I'm moved on to the belief that there might be something out there in the universe, and while not trying to sound like a Jedi, I think it might be a force.

So why do I believe this? I feel like there is a void of unanswerable questions that the human mind just cannot comprehend and it seems to me there is a supernatural force at work. No one told me to believe this, although I did grow up Catholic so I have some exposer.

I think one that that really got me questioning atheism is how many atheist are. I feel like many atheist I come across are almost militant in their beliefs, this is what drove me away from Christianity in the first place. This is not to say I just started believing in god because a majority of atheists were jerks, but what it did do was made me sit back and examine what I really believed and not be influenced by those around me.

I think with any belief that should the driving force, whether it's the believe in the Abraham God or no god at all. Whatever conclusion you draw should come from how you perceive the world and how you feel inside...not what someone else tells you. And once you come to that conclusion is should just be a part of you and you shouldn't try to change someone else's way of thinking. There is no way to prove or disprove the existence of a supernatural being, and I know I'll get some big long argument about how you don't need to prove there is no god...but for me you do.

So really believe however you want to believe and don't give a damn about what someone else thinks and don't try to make someone else think the way you do. I think that's what I'm trying to say with way to many words.

And it might seem like I'm rambling and for that I apologize, it's been a long night.

 

[fitftw]

I feel the same way as you, and we pretty much lived identical lives on our path to enlightenment. I'll never say I believe in god and I'll never say I don't. I just don't know. There may or may not be something causing all this. There's not enough evidence for or against.

 

[Tic Tach]

The more I think about the supernatural....

Wait a minute, what is "the supernatural"? There is no supernatural, only things that are not yet fully understood. The fact is, that everything that was once thought of or attributed to "supernatural" has come to be fully understood and explained in purely natural terms. Expect that trend to continue.

....the more I think something exists on a higher level of consciousness then the human mind. I'm not sure what that is, but I think it's something.

Cool. But all you've presented is a "neat idea", and without any evidence, you need to provide your audience (and yourself) with good reason(s) to accept such assertions. Otherwise, my assertion that a purple giraffe hiding behind Pluto is in charge of the universe is just as valid and on equal footing. So it's important to understand epistemology; how we know what we know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BJa7WAr7aQ

I used to be a pretty firm atheist and I thought the belief in the supernatural was pure rubbish, then I began to reflect on my life and questions I had. This left a lot of opennings which made me start to question atheism in general and left me with the notion of I just don't know what's out there.

Let me get this straight; you had some "openings" of misunderstanding, or wonder, or awe, and this somehow was evidence for a god or energy or something? Why? And please don't attempt to correct me on that, because you said that your "questions" made you question atheism, and atheism is simply not holding god belief, so you are therefore saying that your state of questioning had you questioning non god belief, for that's all atheism is. An atheist could believe in "cosmic energy" or even my purple giraffe; just not gods.

Now I'm moved on to the belief that there might be something out there in the universe, and while not trying to sound like a Jedi, I think it might be a force.

Why can that not explained in naturalistic terms? Why do you think it is that something like 95% of the Academy of Science (truly the elite of the elite) are atheists? Surely if there were any good reason to believe in something more than the giant natural chemistry lab that the universe is, they might be on to it, no?

So why do I believe this? I feel like there is a void of unanswerable questions that the human mind just cannot comprehend and it seems to me there is a supernatural force at work. No one told me to believe this, although I did grow up Catholic so I have some exposure.

You believe what exactly?

And this supernatural force at work can't do anything about the 30,000 children that die of starvation every day? If it's not involved in the goings-on of our lives, then isn't it functionally non existant?

I think one that that really got me questioning atheism is how many atheist are. I feel like many atheist I come across are almost militant in their beliefs...

a) It doesn't matter how an atheist "comes across". Whether some are militant or easy going has nothing to do with the issue. That is tantamount to, and erroneous as saying that religion is false because there are priests who rape little boys. It's a red herring.

b) Militant atheists aren't militant in their beliefs. They are merely more outspoken about their rejection of the untenable assertions of and by the theist. Do you believe in unicorns? If you really don't, and require evidence, are you militant in your disbelief of unicorns? Perhaps you would be viewed as militant on that if 90% of the world's population did believe in unicorns.

.....but what it did do was made me sit back and examine what I really believed and not be influenced by those around me.

That sounds good on the surface, but we learn a great deal from those around us, and you would do well to listen to all opinions and viewpoints, not just the feelings and emotions that you are subject to in isolation.

I think with any belief that should the driving force, whether it's the believe in the Abraham God or no god at all. Whatever conclusion you draw should come from how you perceive the world and how you feel inside...not what someone else tells you. And once you come to that conclusion is should just be a part of you and you shouldn't try to change someone else's way of thinking. There is no way to prove or disprove the existence of a supernatural being, and I know I'll get some big long argument about how you don't need to prove there is no god...but for me you do.

This is what happens when one watches too much Oprah; a lack or degredation of critical thinking. No rational person is "agnostic" about the existence of unicorns, leprechauns, dragons, gnomes, etc. Why is the god concept granted a special status?

So really believe however you want to believe and don't give a damn about what someone else thinks and don't try to make someone else think the way you do.

So that's what you think is humanity's best approach to understanding and moving forward? To just throw up ones hands and say "Hey, it's ok to believe whatever you want, it really doesn't matter." I suggest that you might need reminding that the individuals who flew the planes into the twin towers did so precicely because of what they believed about reality. It matters what we believe, now more than ever, and I suggest that we can no longer afford to take such an irrational path as "whatever feels good".



Good night, and have a good weekend.

 

[fitftw]

what we need to do is get rid of religion completely. A reverse genocide/holocaust. The world would be a better place without people killing each other over stupid nonsense like belief in a higher power.

 

[theotherspongey]

what we need to do is get rid of religion completely. A reverse genocide/holocaust. The world would be a better place without people killing each other over stupid nonsense like belief in a higher power.

Did you think before you said that?

 

[Tesla]

what we need to do is get rid of religion completely. A reverse genocide/holocaust. The world would be a better place without people killing each other over stupid nonsense like belief in a higher power.

Do you know how many people who believe in God there are in the world? Billions.

 

[Mr. S]

Do you know how many people who believe in God there are in the world? Billions.

Just because many believe in something doesn't necessarily make it right.

 

[homeforsummer]

Did you think before you said that?

Does he think in general?

 

[Sam48]

Just because many believe in something doesn't necessarily make it right.

I think he wants them all to be executed, if I'm not correct.

Anyway, a change of topic for a sec...

What do atheists make of people being possessed? Or people speaking in tongues? I've actually seen this happen, people speaking in tongues that is, and it scarred the living 🤬 out of me.

Also, a famous exorcism is the one that killed Anneleise Michael.
http://dalje.com/en-world/video--cries-and-growling-of-annelieses-exorcism/246612

Do you consider such events as physical or mental dis-orders that science has yet to classify? What do you guys think?

 

[homeforsummer]

What do atheists make of people being possessed? Or people speaking in tongues? I've actually seen this happen, people speaking in tongues that is, and it scarred the living 🤬 out of me.

Also, a famous exorcism is the one that killed Anneleise Michael.
http://dalje.com/en-world/video--cries-and-growling-of-annelieses-exorcism/246612

Do you consider such events as physical or mental dis-orders that science has yet to classify? What do you guys think?

Erm, well firstly, I strongly suspect she didn't die of the exorcism itself. If she'd spent years eating flies, drinking urine, not eating actual food (and who knows what other things) and finally having contracted pneumonia, it seems much more likely she died as a result of massive health problems - and starvation, as the article you linked to suggests. Nothing to do with the exorcism itself.

As for possession itself, has there ever been a recorded case of someone non-religious speaking in tongues or being possessed?

It seems to me like these events are more an individual mental health problem unique to people who are particularly vulnerable, and the link between their mental health symptoms and religion is simply coincidental, and at the most links appear between the two as the family itself tends to be strongly religious so praying becomes wrapped up in the issues.

Put it this way, there are thousands of people with debilitating mental health problems who have nothing to do with religion, so it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch that the occasional religious believer can suffer from them too.

 

[fitftw]

Does he think in general?

How do you know I don't?

Anyone who believes in god is beneath me and I won't take ANYTHING they say seriously. Same goes for people who don't believe in god.

You are not considered "safe" to me unless you realize god may or may not exist. You can't take sides on this matter.

People who strongly believe one way or the other are DANGEROUS.

If you don't see how this makes sense, or are getting angry, you obviously strongly believe one way or the other. And you are the problem. You are the cause of the crucifixion, the crusades, the reason jews walked the desert for 40 years, the cause of the holocaust, the reason behind slave trading and imperialism.

In God We Trust. Hah! All we do is kill each other. What a world. The pope lets priests be pedophiles because their religion says they must be abstinent. Yeah, that's real smart. Some people just can't BE abstinent obviously.

No sex til marriage? What a stupid idea.

Religion is the world's number 1 killer. Actually, conviction without proof is the killer.

 

[Luminis]

In God We Trust. Hah! All we do is kill each other. What a world. The pope lets priests be pedophiles because their religion says they must be abstinent. Yeah, that's real smart. Some people just can't BE abstinent obviously.

And if you demand a "reverse holocaust" you're no better than them, quite the opposite.

If you don't see how this makes sense, or are getting angry, you obviously either believe in god or don't. And you are the problem. You are the cause of the crucifixion, the crusades, the reason jews walked the desert for 40 years, the cause of the holocaust, the reason behind slave trading and imperialism.

What would be the right state of mind, then? Killing everybody off who ever had any thought related to religion at all, no amtter whether he approves or disapproves of it?

I mean, are you for real? Start your "reverse holocaust" so you can stop future holocausts? How much of a hypocrite can you be?

The reason I abstain from friendships in the real world is because nobody is on my level.

Also, I'd like to point out that most guys who think they're without equal are usual not the brightest kind of people around...

Religion is the world's number 1 killer. Actually, conviction without proof is the killer.

Oh, I actually think that closed-mindedness is just as big of an issue as religion itself... But that's just me.

 

[fitftw]

A reverse holocaust would end the world FOREVER of idiotic religious freaks. So no, it doesn't make me a hypocrite. Making up for over 2,000 years of bloodshed in the name of God so that the present will be CLEANSED and the future will see no more religion. I feel like Jews and blacks deserve to kill several hundred thousand religious people for what was done to them.

It will never happen, and I honestly don't care enough. But it would be a better idea than the real holocaust.

I just feel terrible for people who talk loud, are dramatic, etc people are so fake to me, and they haven't found the path to enlightenment because they don't care to. It's sad to me. You must see past all of this. Everything is pointless and temporary. Try some meditation.

I feel to understand how I think, you need to know what I think about myself.

There is no overcoming my feeling of low self-worth. Even if I was loaded rich I'd still feel beneath...not just people, but nature, animals, everything. We are specks, and too many people like to believe the world revolves around them. We are truly nothing. Go to a park trail one nice day and just walk around alone with your thoughts and realize that humanity is nothing but trouble and poison.

 

[Tesla]

Fitftw; You would condone genocide of billions of people because they make a choice based on faith and belief? Because, deep down, they simply are afraid to die and do not want to face the possibility of going to Hell? I don't think you 'abstain from friendship' by choice...

 

[Luminis]

A reverse holocaust would end the world FOREVER of idiotic religious freaks. So no, it doesn't make me a hypocrite. Making up for over 2,000 years of bloodshed in the name of God so that the present will be CLEANSED and the future will see no more religion. I feel like Jews and blacks deserve to kill several hundred thousand religious people for what was done to them.

You are willing to shed the blood of billions of people for that? To cleanse the world?

Oh, where did I hear that before? Ah, right, sixty years ago, in Germany!

It will never happen, and I honestly don't care enough. But it would be a better idea than the real holocaust.

Killing huge amounts of people can never be a good idea, doesn't matter what you'd compare it too. Whether you want to call it 'reverse holocaust' or 'holocaust' doesn't change a darn thing, you're just a bloody mass murderer who doesn't value human life one 🤬 bit.

And that's comming from an atheist who's also thinking of religion causing more good then harm in the long run, at least now that it's not any longer needed as a means to get people to obey certain laws and a moral code.

I just feel terrible for people who talk loud, are dramatic, etc people are so fake to me, and they haven't found the path to enlightenment because they don't care to. It's sad to me. You must see past all of this. Everything is pointless and temporary. Try some meditation.

And you're the one to judge whether they're enlighted or not? Try some 🤬 common sense.

There is no overcoming my feeling of low self-worth.

After reading that BS you posted about approving genocide to get rid of riligious people, that's deserved, for sure.

Anyways, to brighten this up a bit, and because it fits right now, I'll leave this here for you:

 

[Tesla]

That being massive on my tv made it all the more funny

 

[fitftw]

Please share with me this "common sense" that I apparently don't possess.

Just because my outlook on life is dramatically different than yours doesn't mean you have to get scared or feel threatened and start picking on people. I didn't personally attack anyone here. It just makes sense that religion should have never existed.

There is a middle ground, called 'who gives a **** about anything'. You should join. I have my car, my PS3, my keytar, and my hedgehog. Everything else is garbage. Politics, religion, news, it's all worthless and does nothing but cause debates and problems. Gives me a damn headache.

On that note, I'm done here. Have fun arguing about god until the day you die.

 

[Tic Tach]

A reverse holocaust would end the world FOREVER of idiotic religious freaks. So no, it doesn't make me a hypocrite. Making up for over 2,000 years of bloodshed in the name of God so that the present will be CLEANSED and the future will see no more religion. I feel like Jews and blacks deserve to kill several hundred thousand religious people for what was done to them.

It will never happen, and I honestly don't care enough. But it would be a better idea than the real holocaust.

Yikes. I'm giving this guy a wide berth. Even with my vocal opposition to religious and all supernatural false beliefs, you all might be surprised that I would fight for your rights to believe whatever you want, it's just that those beliefs should not be free from inquiry.

fitftw, you need help.

 

[fitftw]

fitftw, you need help.

I don't think so, but thanks. Help will come in the form of death someday. Maybe you're the ones who need help.

 

[Luminis]

Please share with me this "common sense" that I apparently don't possess.

You made it clear that you view yourself as the person to judge who's ffound their path to enlightment and who didn't, who the hell do you think you are?

Just because my outlook on life is dramatically different than yours doesn't mean you have to get scared or feel threatened and start picking on people. I didn't personally attack anyone here. It just makes sense that religion should have never existed.

Personally attacked? No, you didn't, but there's only so much BS I can read without getting irritated about it, and seriously, you just spewed the biggest load of pull ever by approving of 🤬 mass murder to further your goals.

If mankind was just to despose of people with a mindset like yours, who are willing to accept mass murder to further their goals, we wouldn't experience as much murder, either. And not just due to religious reasons. If we just got rid of everybody who doesn't value human life, wouldn't that just solve the problem of murder alltogether?

So, if you want to cleanse the world, what'd you do about the likes of you, eh?

There is a middle ground, called 'who gives a **** about anything'. You should join. I have my car, my PS3, my keytar, and my hedgehog. Everything else is garbage. Politics, religion, news, it's all worthless and does nothing but cause debates and problems. Gives me a damn headache.

Then go live under a rock somewhere, for all I care. But I for one care about both my life and the world I live in, and, thus, about things like politics and such.

On that note, I'm done here. Have fun arguing about god until the day you die.

Oh, I'd rather argue about god for all eternity than listen to the likes of you, that's for sure...

Holly hell, I guess I've never lost repsect for a person I knew so little about faster.