Do you see GT6 as Gt6 or Gt5.5

[Tenacious D]

The tire model (in Forza 4) was huge. Probably bigger than anything added in GT5's lifetime. The step from F3 to F4 is like going between dimensions.

I like aspects of tire modeling in both series, but from my assessment, they do the same things from opposite directions.

Gran Turismo seems to start with a good basic tire model, the Comforts, and then just multiply the grip factor, the grip multiplier as many have stated it, so that Racing tires act like Comforts with more grip. The boundary between grip and grip loss gets narrower as you go up the scale, but there is rarely a break point as there are with softer compounds in real life.

Forza seems to begin with a high grip model, Racing tires, and then lessen the grip factor with harder more commercial tires, so that even hard street tires have a high grip factor and break grip more than I think they should.

Maybe both new games will do something more realistic in the middle.

 

[Samus]

I like aspects of tire modeling in both series, but from my assessment, they do the same things from opposite directions.

Gran Turismo seems to start with a good basic tire model, the Comforts, and then just multiply the grip factor, the grip multiplier as many have stated it, so that Racing tires act like Comforts with more grip. The boundary between grip and grip loss gets narrower as you go up the scale, but there is rarely a break point as there are with softer compounds in real life.

Forza seems to begin with a high grip model, Racing tires, and then lessen the grip factor with harder more commercial tires, so that even hard street tires have a high grip factor and break grip more than I think they should.

Maybe both new games will do something more realistic in the middle.

The difference there is that the grip multiplier is proven, your theory of tyres in Forza 4....is not.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I like aspects of tire modeling in both series,

I think both series slipped a bit in the tire department. Gt4 had a few more tire compounds to choose from and the tire wear was much better in GT4

Forza 2 has lots of tire options which for some reason disappeared as of Forza 3 which was a bit strange given how much they hyped the new tire model. It felt like a step backwards,

 

[Prototyp3]

after the reveal I'm seeing it as GT5.5

I'm gonna get it but damn if it doesn't look the same. Maybe the improvements are all under the hood and in the UI or other features. We'll see as we learn more.

 

[thesuperfunk]

Realistically it's probably going to be what GT5 should have been ... shame there aren't more tracks being included though.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

The reasoning behind the perception that GT6 = GT5.5 stems from how bad GT5 is.

I think this mindset is a subtle display of how/where some fans see the series going. And it's never really been seen before. I don't recall GT4 being labeled as GT3.5 or GT2 as GT1.5; probably because most of those titles were good.

It's all because of GT5 and how terrible it is (beyond its solid attempt to recreate driving physics). In the end, I don't think the series can thrive as well as it has if it's just going to be a simulator. It still has to be a game and to be fun.

 

[ICEYOU]

There is no point in arguing with someone who will write a game off with so little information.Since of course thats what this thread will turn into if it doesnt get locked first.

Agreed this topic is rather dumb.

 

[Elitekilla29]

I see it as gt6. And also they didn't reveal everything about gt6 we still probaly got more to look forward to. It's looking really great so far and without a doubt I will be picking this up when the game release.

 

[NCRthree]

More realistic physics is a big freakin deal. A faster and better designed UI is too. Favorable comparisons to a couple PC sims physics wise. These have been confirmed by people who were able to get a test drive at Silverstone. The forum owner and several GT Academy drivers are better judges of the new game than a bunch of internet speculators looking to argue. Did any of them say the physics weren't improved a great deal?

Returning will be the same damage model and standard cars. That's disappointing for sure. We don't know anything about ASpec or any other offline Events. Yet.

Are people really that bored or simple minded to throw silly insults at a game by calling it GT5.whatever? Should we have a thread called Forza 3.85 it's close to but not quite 4 in my expert opinion based on a trailer and my sour mood?

 

[SkylineObsession]

It is GT6. Case closed.
It just doesn't seem like it is, since we are able to download new cars, tracks and game features which we haven't been able to do for any other GT game before. That, in my opinion, is what is making people think that this is just GT5.5.

With a new car handling system, new menus and probably new other things, there is no way at all this is just an improved GT5. Think about it peoples...

 

[GTP_Plato]

Forza mentioned yet again in a thread about GT

The funny thing is there seems to be only one person who knows what he is going on about when discussing the good and bad points of FM4.

I have been around since the start of the Forza series racing with very respected FM players in teams who know what they are going on about when it comes to bugs and problems. These guys are the ones you would see all over the leaderboards mainly in the top ten on most tracks. It doesn't take guys like this long to find problems with the building and tuning of cars and I can only assume that 90% of people posting on here do not recognize the problems probably because unlike people in teams they are not chasing the best lap times on the leaderboard as they have other interests in the game.

What HBR-Roadhog has been saying about the transmission problems and the PI is absolutely correct, there are still problem cars now that have the Transmission/PI problem (Honda Civic 97). Like I said, to people that don't hotlap, this problem would probably go un-noticed but it's been one of the big issues since release. This issue being one of the main reasons half of the top Forza players no longer play the game.

This is by no means me having a go at the people who did not know these problems persisted

As for the topic, in my opinion PD seemed to have listened to it's fans and implemented things we wanted in the game, as long as leaderboards are implemented I will be very happy as will a lot of others. Leaderboards are going to need a good PP system for it to work properly....... I have faith in PD to come up with the goods fingers crossed

Recognize the tag Roadhog, pretty sure you have been around since the early days of the FM series as well, did you not used to be in a different team though?

 

[Johnnypenso]

More realistic physics is a big freakin deal. A faster and better designed UI is too. Favorable comparisons to a couple PC sims physics wise. These have been confirmed by people who were able to get a test drive at Silverstone. The forum owner and several GT Academy drivers are better judges of the new game than a bunch of internet speculators looking to argue. Did any of them say the physics weren't improved a great deal?

Returning will be the same damage model and standard cars. That's disappointing for sure. We don't know anything about ASpec or any other offline Events. Yet.

Are people really that bored or simple minded to throw silly insults at a game by calling it GT5.whatever? Should we have a thread called Forza 3.85 it's close to but not quite 4 in my expert opinion based on a trailer and my sour mood?

No offense to Jordan or any of the GTAcademy drivers, but I would take anything they say with a grain of salt. They aren't exactly impartial testers. I'd pay more attention to reviews from a much broader audience that has no financial stake in the GT series. Not saying it isn't true, I actually think GT6 will be full of surprises but I'll hold out for more impartial reviews before I get too excited.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

What HBR-Roadhog has been saying about the transmission problems and the PI is absolutely correct, there are still problem cars now that have the Transmission/PI problem (Honda Civic 97). Like I said, to people that don't hotlap, this problem would probably go un-noticed but it's been one of the big issues since release. This issue being one of the main reasons half of the top Forza players no longer play the game.

Glad to see that someone understands what I having been saying

Recognize the tag Roadhog, pretty sure you have been around since the early days of the FM series as well, did you not used to be in a different team though?

I started with Forza 2 about a year before Forza 3 was released. Have had the HBR Roadhog tag since then. I know of at least one other Roadhog online and would not be surprised if there are others.

If you look at the oval leaderboards much you have probably saw my name a few times I drive a bit of everything but some of my friends are really good on ovals and it takes some good lap times to compete.

 

[GTP_Plato]

Glad to see that someone understands what I having been saying

I started with Forza 2 about a year before Forza 3 was released. Have had the HBR Roadhog tag since then. I know of at least one other Roadhog online and would not be surprised if there are others.

If you look at the oval leaderboards much you have probably saw my name a few times I drive a bit of everything but some of my friends are really good on ovals and it takes some good lap times to compete.

Yeah, seemed like you needed a bit of defending

It's not the only issue with the builds of cars either, there is still the turbo glitch where you buy and sell it but the game doesn't seem to recognize, with the turbo sold the game fails to change the PI back to the stock setting before it was installed, so effectively you still have the turbo and extra PI to play with. Anyways that's for a different forum all together.

It's your HBR tag I remember, as for me I was in teams such as EMW HLR among others back in the earlier days

Has there been any info leaked about Leaderboards coming to GT6? That was my main disappointment about GT5, it's features like this that kept me coming back for more and becoming more addicted to racing games, sometimes the satisfaction of finding just a tenth or putting down top ten times on the leaderboards were enough to keep me coming back, was the same for a lot of others as well i'm sure.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

It's your HBR tag I remember, as for me I was in teams such as EMW HLR among others back in the earlier days

Ahh... perhaps you know me under my alter ego HBR Will.

Back in Forza 2 I used to race with some of the EMW guys using that gamer tag and almost joined the team but eventually didn't. At the time they were racing mostly S class which was a blast in Forza 2, maybe the best class to race in the game.

Has there been any info leaked about Leaderboards coming to GT6? That was my main disappointment about GT5, it's features like this that kept me coming back for more and becoming more addicted to racing games, sometimes the satisfaction of finding just a tenth or putting down top ten times on the leaderboards were enough to keep me coming back, was the same for a lot of others as well i'm sure.

I haven't heard anything yet but there was a mention from Kaz back after GT5 was released that leaderboards would be coming. Hopefully he meant something more than the weekly time and drift trail boards that we have now.

The lack of leaderboards was a major disappointment to all of us. I was also disappointed by the lack of restrictions in the A-Spec career races and lack of proper tire wear both of which had been in GT4.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I just find calling GT6 GT5.5 to be utterly childish IMO.

 

[GTP_Plato]

I haven't heard anything yet but there was a mention from Kaz back after GT5 was released that leaderboards would be coming. Hopefully he meant something more than the weekly time and drift trail boards that we have now.

Maybe they're still "In the process of evolution" and we may see them in GT6

All jokes aside, I couldn't see this game lasting long for me if Leaderboards were not in it.... We are not in the stone age anymore.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Maybe they're still "In the process of evolution" and we may see them in GT6

All jokes aside, I couldn't see this game lasting long for me if Leaderboards were not in it.... We are not in the stone age anymore.

Yeah, writing times down on paper or posting them on your wall is a bet long in the tooth. Even Porsche Unleashed had a leaderboard for each track that recorded the 10 fastest times and that game came out 13 years ago.

On the Xbox side did you know EMW Stone? He was the one who was wanting me to join the team back in the day. Had some good races with him and Toto

 

[GTP_Plato]

Yeah, writing times down on paper or posting them on your wall is a bet long in the tooth. Even Porsche Unleashed had a leaderboard for each track that recorded the 10 fastest times and that game came out 13 years ago.

On the Xbox side did you know EMW Stone? He was the one who was wanting me to join the team back in the day. Had some good races with him and Toto

I competed in the WRS for a while on GT but got fed up with having to post split times and then send in a replay for verification. Hopefully this will no longer need to be the case as they surely have to be included this time round.

As for EMW Stone I don't recognize the name, I was in EMW for a period during FM3 and stayed there for the first few weeks during FM4, when the problems with the glitched muscle cars and other problems we spoke about earlier came about I had had enough. On top of all this was the steering wheel problems that existed when MS put out that dodgy update, that was the last straw for me as I didn't want to leave expensive equipment sat there collecting dust, so I went back to GT for a while.

Now needing a fresh racing sim to play though, racing games without leaderboards don't last long with me. I really hope GT6 doesn't disappoint in this respect.

 

[LeMansAid]

The reasoning behind the perception that GT6 = GT5.5 stems from how bad GT5 is.

..... and in second place on PS3 is what? Surely context is massive. Assuming that you know little or nothing of the game of cricket, how impressed are you by Don Bradman's batting average of 99.98? What about if I informed that the next best is around 60? Bringing in context shows that Bradman was (somewhat) objectively nearly twice as good as the next best. So, how impressive is the next best game?

Left of field analogy I know, but seriously, think about what the PS3 driving landscape would be like without GT5.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Now needing a fresh racing sim to play though, racing games without leaderboards don't last long with me. I really hope GT6 doesn't disappoint in this respect.

I started a thread a few days ago with a pool to get a feel how others here felt about leaderboards. It appears that a pretty large majority would like to have some form of leader board. Last I looked only 1 person had voted no.

I'll keep my fingers crossed, hopefully we will get them this time.

 

[Exorcet]

I like aspects of tire modeling in both series, but from my assessment, they do the same things from opposite directions.

They seem to use complete different models. In fact the GT6 announcement pretty much confirms it. GT is taking on what Forza accomplished in 4 because it's more accurate.

In any case, one clearly uses a multiplier. The other has dynamic grip levels for one reason or another.

Gran Turismo seems to start with a good basic tire model, the Comforts, and then just multiply the grip factor, the grip multiplier as many have stated it, so that Racing tires act like Comforts with more grip. The boundary between grip and grip loss gets narrower as you go up the scale, but there is rarely a break point as there are with softer compounds in real life.

The comforts aren't special really. They have all the same problems that every other tire does. The sports tires, besides grip, are actually the best for simulating road tires. The comforts just hit the understeer wall too quickly and it's way too big a wall. I've come close to the edge on road tires on on slicks, the feeling at the edge just isn't there in GT.

Looking at this a bit deeper, even if the comforts were right, it would raise the question of why there is a grip multiplier at all. Even if you took a tire and changed the material and only that, you could get completely different deformation. You wouldn't necessarily get a simple linear change in grip.

Forza seems to begin with a high grip model, Racing tires, and then lessen the grip factor with harder more commercial tires, so that even hard street tires have a high grip factor and break grip more than I think they should.

This sounds like something that might explain Forza 3 where slick race cars felt a lot better than road cars, which had infinite grip. Forza 4 seems to do everything well, and if I remember, each tire grade is based on data from a specific corresponding real life tire, which would mean what you're describing couldn't have happened in Forza development.

Maybe both new games will do something more realistic in the middle.

GT needs (and is getting) a new physics model entirely. Forza just needs tweaking really.