Do you think that GT is losing the battle against Forza?

[Noremac55]

Didn’t know where to add this but...... I have heard that the version that the Japanese have is very different to the one that the America and European markets will be getting. For starter, the press release seems to already show this. But I have heard that there could be some even more exciting cars being featured on the game than have already been stated.

???Maybe more Ferrari’s??????? hopefully

I have also been warned that the graphics you see in these YouTube videos, Gametrailer videos, etc, give you no real representation of what the actual game graphics are like. The London circuit is meant to be very realistic, with buildings being in such good detail that it offers you a real feeling of speed. In fact they are meant to be in such good detail that you should be able to read the signs as you go past the shops at speed.

so in my opinion it is a bit hard to compare it to othergames until you have had first hand experience with it, on your own TV

 

[Dave A]

You heared right, check the first post in this thread...
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=96425
There's a list of all the cars and tracks for the US and European versions. Though it is still unknown if the Asian versions will be updated with the additional content as a PS store download.

 

[unv412]

PS: yeah, Enthusia still has, in many ways, a more detailed & interesting driving physics - I noticed that immediately when I started playing it again a few days ago. But the fact that you (UNV412) have to play "time trials" rather than race with your cousins, underlines the shortcomings there...

yes your right .Its just the fact there is no LAN,proper split-screen,challenging AI,etc,etc.....but apart from that there's no problem with the gameplay!.Still we end up having a ball doing the fastest lap in time trial stuff.Maybe one day I'll restart the game from scratch and race for keys again.On the Forza front, haveing no wheel support ruined it as some of my cousins handled the controllers better than others, and that old argument of gaining the advantage of being able to press buttons better than properly steering and useing the pedals surfaced when someone was quicker.

 

[Tenacious D]

Forza 1 offered far superior AI

Ew. Absolutely not. If Forza 1 bots ended up on a GT5 server, they'd all be universally banned. They were terrible, rude, unprofessional brats. On top of that, I went back to play Forza 1 since my bro borrowed my XBox, and I remembered why I thought at first blush it was a terrible game. It is.

Forza 2 is such a better game, but it does have issues. The overly pronounced oversteer on practically all cars, combined with a lack of good camera views, makes taking a turn for me and many others more of a struggle than it should be. Even at low speed, there's too much oversteer. A better higher hoodcam view or roofcam would sure have helped with that, as well as the tire sounds from FM1. WHY did they use those stupid low pressure Buick tires?? The thing that really sucks are the many bugs that Turn 10 let out the door. This Microsoft-itis has me looking forward to Forza 3 with a jaded eye.

Currently I'm getting into my unplayed games so GT5 Prologue is idling for a bit. I'm enjoying the Ratchet & Clank series way more than I thought I would, and can hardly wait to explore Future Tools of Destruction. After that there's the Metal Gear Solid Essential Collection to enjoy before the Godly arrival of GT5 Prologue American edition. I'm looking forward to bumping some sidewalls with you guys in a few weeks.

 

[shaka]

DiRT isn't an exclusive though.




Yes, I realize you weren't talking about DiRT.

lol dirt

 

[Biggles]

On the Forza front, haveing no wheel support ruined it

Yes, biggest problem with Forza 1 (& 2).

Ew. Absolutely not. If Forza 1 bots ended up on a GT5 server, they'd all be universally banned. They were terrible, rude, unprofessional brats. On top of that, I went back to play Forza 1 since my bro borrowed my XBox, and I remembered why I thought at first blush it was a terrible game. It is.

Well, we've been here before Tenacious! Let's just say that I'll take "aggressive", over mindless morons...

 

[FoolKiller]

lol dirt

You didn't like DiRT?

I found it immensely better than Motostorm. As in I bought DiRT but not Motorstorm after trying both.

 

[Tenacious D]

Well, we've been here before Tenacious! Let's just say that I'll take "aggressive", over mindless morons...

"Aggressive"??

Well, if you like the fact that a bot went to a dead stop in the shadows of the straight on Sunset Speedway just so I'd wreck into it, that's you. To me that's the equivalent of some idiot driving the wrong way just to make trouble. And I have plenty more stories. I bet you'd love some of the Japanese servers in Prologue.

Anyway, the Prologue bots are nicely professional and rather lifelike now. If some of you don't like them, just move on to some other game.

 

[Hun200kmh]

... if some of you don't like them, just move on to some other game.

That's kind of you to say so, sir ... should "some of them" move on to another forum aswell, or does that just apply to the ones that dislike the intro music also?

 

[Patrik]

now we all know GT5 is going to **** Forza 2 in the *** right?

 

[Biggles]

That's kind of you to say so, sir ... should "some of them" move on to another forum aswell, or does that just apply to the ones that dislike the intro music also?

It's kind of like the old taunt: "USA, love it or leave it!"

Tenacious: I've read your criticism of Forza 1's AI before. I never, ever had a Forza AI car "lurk in the shadows". The AI is certainly far from perfect, but it is also far superior to the GT4 AI which simply uniformly & unvaryingly follows the racing line. To test this, I systematically tried parking my car in the middle of the racing line on a straightaway in half-a-dozen different tracks in GT4: EVERY SINGLE CAR ON EVERY SINGLE TRACK RAN STRAIGHT INTO ME. This does not happen in Forza 1 where the AI cars unquestionably DO respond (imperfectly perhaps) to the positioning of the player's car.

I have no particular axe to grind: I would rank GT4 & Forza 1 about equal overall, with GT4 having the edge because of Logitech wheel support, but denying the superiority of Forza 1's (never mind Forza 2's) AI system is simply daft IMO.

 

[Tenacious D]

That's kind of you to say so, sir ... should "some of them" move on to another forum aswell, or does that just apply to the ones that dislike the intro music also?

Rather than beach and moan about everything under the hood, I think the time would be better spent elsenet, wouldn't you agree?

Note that I do have good things to say about Forza 2 on this very board. I am a fan, after a fashion. I did indeed buy my 360 Elite rig just to play FM2 to the tune of $775 US plus. However I'm not shy about remarking on what I see are an entire laundry list of serious flaws Microsoft seems to infect with everything they make, including their Forza game software. Including their shoddily designed hardware. Disliking certain aspects of how it sounds or drives, the camera angles or it's replays are just minor niggles compared to M$ deliberately selling broken consoles to an unsuspecting public for way more than a year. Or a game which has an incredible number of bugs rendering it surprisingly unstable.

Contrast this to someone complaining that GT4 is utter crap, when it's undoubtedly better in a number of ways to many past and some current games the same poster holds dear to his heart. Yes, in such circumstances I'm going to object and lay out a few facts and impressions to counter those.

Despite the fact that almost everything in Prologue has been tweaked in some often amazing ways, people still come to these boards and gripe about how GT5 will probably suck, because GT5 Prologue does suck, while showing every indication they don't know what they're talking about.

There is criticism, but there is bashing. I'm a grown up dude, I can usually tell the difference, and I don't treat every naysay as flamebait. Thank you very much.

@ Biggles: I obviously have different experiences than you in both regards. I've been plowed into by GT cars plenty of times. But I will have to say a couple of times just to get back at them, I parked in the middle of a straight and they politely avoided me. Yes, I did the same thing in Forza and they usually do it too. But they also have ganged up on me in some startlingly deliberate ways.

Have they done it all the time? Obviously not or I would have smashed my XBox to bits in my driveway. But it's not a rare occurence. But to each his own.

 

[Biggles]

@ Biggles: I obviously have different experiences than you in both regards. I've been plowed into by GT cars plenty of times. But I will have to say a couple of times just to get back at them, I parked in the middle of a straight and they politely avoided me. Yes, I did the same thing in Forza and they usually do it too. But they also have ganged up on me in some startlingly deliberate ways.

Have they done it all the time? Obviously not or I would have smashed my XBox to bits in my driveway. But it's not a rare occurence. But to each his own.

Tenacious: It wouldn't be an issue if GT4 AI cars sometimes did it, but they always do it - if you're on the racing line they will hit you everytime - they don't "gang up on you", they're just totally unaware that you're there. I've tested this systematically & they never move around you - if you can produce a video showing that they do, I'll believe you.

Anyway, the ironic thing about this argument, is that you actually went out & bought a 360 & Forza 2, while I decided not to. I bought a PS3 in expectation of better things with GT5/P (& in the meantime enjoying F1:CE which has decent AI, damage & collision physics) - I'm hoping it lives up to those expectations.

 

[Porsche_Carrera]

Honestly wow, I just cannot believe this topic even exists regardless of when it was created...

This topic is a total insult to the greatness of Gran Turismo.

 

[eastley]

I say Forza 2 has about won it, the reason being that GT5 has taken to long to get out, it's still a year away.

 

[Tenacious D]

Apparently, GT5 Prologue has more than 1 million preorders just in Europe, so I think the argument is about over.

And Biggles, I'll see about it at some point, if I can bum my bro's camera. And tear myself away from Ratchet & Clank and Metal Gear Solid. And then there's that darn Prologue coming in April...

And for the record, it's Forza's bots ganging up on me.

 

[Joey D]

Honestly wow, I just cannot believe this topic even exists regardless of when it was created...

This topic is a total insult to the greatness of Gran Turismo.

GT is far from perfect, I hope you realise that. That doesn't make it a bad game though.

 

[tomivav]

it's not perfect ofcourse, but it's still unbelievebly special. there is so much love involved in gran turismo, and forza is never going to have something like that. plus, japanese people are making gt, and we know that japanese people are the ones who give as much effort as they can. that's why it's teoreticly impossible to make something as good or even better than gt.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

OT-> ...

This topic is a total insult to the greatness of Gran Turismo.

^ I created this topic not on a basis that I insult GT, in fact I'm a die hard fan of the series (proof? I spent USD$ 2,500 just because of GT5).

-> I opened up this topic is simply because as far as what I see 2 years ago, some of the GTP members are sick and tired of PD's unresponsiveness to its fans. And this is the thread that lets their steam out of their head.

-> I would just like to see on how will people repond to my question. And so far, this is my most sucessful thread in all my life as a GTP member (my nortorius wish lists comes at a close second).

BT-> Thing are sure getting heated up, please continue guys! 👍

 

[Biggles]

Apparently, GT5 Prologue has more than 1 million preorders just in Europe, so I think the argument is about over.

True, GT series is very successful, & deservedly so.

And Biggles, I'll see about it at some point, if I can bum my bro's camera.

If you can come up with some video of a GT4 bot actively manouevering around your car, I'd like to see it!

And for the record, it's Forza's bots ganging up on me.

I understood that - your point is that Forza 1 bots are evil. My point is that GT4 bots don't have the sophistication to be evil: they're mindless.

As I said, it's ironic that the suggestion has been made that GT "dissenters" stay off GTPlanet & stay on the Forza site, because unlike (the traitor) Tenacious: I DON'T HAVE A 360 OR FORZA 2! Like a number of other posters, I just want the GT series to improve in the areas where it's weak, so that I can play a better GT!

What drives me nuts is the GTfanatics who insist that there's nothing wrong with the AI or collision physics, & that there's no need for damage - all areas where IMO Forza 1, let alone Forza 2, is far superior to GT4. As far as I can judge from the GT5P demo, PD still has not seriously addressed these points & is still focused on improving the already stunning visuals.

My fear is, as long as GT fanboys remain convinced that the GT series is "perfect", it will continue to sell well & there will not be much incentive for PD to make the changes that will dramatically improve the series. It is the comparison with Forza - the only real rival to GT - that can highlight the areas where GT needs to get better. That is the point of this thread...

 

[Joey D]

it's not perfect ofcourse, but it's still unbelievebly special. there is so much love involved in gran turismo, and forza is never going to have something like that.

Why can't Forza be "special"? I'm sure the people at Turn 10 are just as dedicated to the making a good game as the people at PD are.

plus, japanese people are making gt, and we know that japanese people are the ones who give as much effort as they can. that's why it's teoreticly impossible to make something as good or even better than gt.

I see we have resorted to stereotypes now.

 

[Biggles]

Quote:
plus, japanese people are making gt, and we know that japanese people are the ones who give as much effort as they can. that's why it's teoreticly impossible to make something as good or even better than gt.

I see we have resorted to stereotypes now.

Yes, that is a stereotype. However, I do think there's something to be said for the point of view that typically Japanese companies approach the marketing of their products with more of a long-term perspective than US companies. Witness how Microsoft rushed a flawed 360 to market to get a headstart on Sony, while Sony has been prepared to wait for their superior, more expensive (Blu-ray) product to establish itself.

 

[fuzzypumpkins]

its a positive stereotype

 

[maxpontiac]

Forza 1 and 2 were good games.

I enjoyed them enough to beat them.

But, with that said, GT is not losing th battle to FM.

After seeing all the screenshots for GT5., and playing the Japanese demo, I have to say no.

 

[viperking1]

I have forza 2 and I think its a great game but its not perfect. The same for gt, it has some flaws but its one of the top racing games out there. I've been playing the gt series since gt1 (waiting for ps3 and gt5p) and the forza series since the first one. Both are great in their own ways and different but theres something about gt that makes me feel at home. Is GT better than Forza? is Forza better than GT? There seems to be no answer as these are 2 very different games on different game consols. Some prefer GT, Some prefer Forza, I like both.(when one pisses me off, I go play and the other)

 

[Joey D]

No stereotype is positive. If you think all Japanese people are hard working and put all the effort they can into everything you are setting unrealistic expectations of the culture.

 

[phil_2001]

To me what is really unbelieveable is the fact many PC gamers think Race 07, or GTR2 is better than GT. Now thst IS mighty strange because outside of braking temper those games have very unimpressive behaviour. Gran Turismo 4 has given me the fun and the weight feel to the car Race '07 can't even touch, race'07 is a joke really and you can see it by how many people are playing those games online, very very few. The most impressive physics on PC so far(if I touched it already) has LFS, in there the weight of the car is much! more realistic and therefore the fun is very good. In race'07 you rather feel like you're manipulating remotely something on the screen which is synthetical and softish than driving a real car, there is worlds difference.
Sorry for the offtop really, I have never "played" Forza, but for me is most strange how people give credit to those ISI games on PC claiming they're much better than GT...- so untrue, but they can have it and enjoy it if they want, I'll have GT4 any day instead although I have a good PC and a steering wheel of course.
Gran Turismo is endeed very special, unique aroma if that sounds better. And besides it was the first game with many stock cars and beautiful eye candy graphics and good physics, and it's becoming more and more interesting with every new addition imo.

 

[kinigitt]

hiiiiiiigh hopes, we've got... HIIIIIIIGH HOPES


I HOPE GT5 will be better than Forza 2, because despite the latter's "OH SHEET THIS IS FUN!" moments sprinkled about (in large part due to the great sound effects and physics), I didn't feel compelled to beat the game or invest heavily in online races. It's an ugly game if you consider that it's all about the cars. Sure the scenery and some effects are alright, but the cars look like they were modelled with the help of toys off the shelf from Wal-Mart. It's prettier on a regular tv because HD reveals it's blemishes, like bright light on a cheap hussie with too much makeup on. The menus are a mess, and I have PC sims that are more engaging.


BUT

Gt5 still has BIG problems, judging from the 100$ i spent on importing the japanese prologue. Sound? F-ing embarassing. AI? Same old. Tedious repeat of races with meagre prizes? Abundant. Bizarre design choices that suck you right out of the established realism? Yep. Arrogant refusal to curb the tedium and/or innovate? Ever present.

The physics are up there though. Really fun to drive some of these cars on the edge. And nobody's gonna get close to this level of graphical sweetness until the next one rolls out PD's door. Also, car selection seems to be returning to GT2 levels of cool. Which is probably the biggest reason I played GT2 for so long. CARS.

 

[unimental]

To me what is really unbelieveable is the fact many PC gamers think Race 07, or GTR2 is better than GT. Now thst IS mighty strange because outside of braking temper those games have very unimpressive behaviour.

Really would disagree with you there. I'm a console and PC gamer, and feel that RACE 07 and GTR2 (along with GT Legends and rFactor) are fantastic. That said, if I want to drive a stock vehicle, GT5 is going to be my destination of choice (except one very good stock vehicle mod on rFactor). For GT or touring cars I'll stick with the PC.

Unimpressive behaviour?

To be fair, which tracks and/or cars do you feel are that unrealistic? Are you using a FFB type wheel?

 

[Joey D]

I don't think any racing game is ever going to get over the hurdle of repetitive races.