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Dodge SRT-4 Article
Award Article
And to think it was up against 40 other cars
. Love this car so much 
...
Award Article
And to think it was up against 40 other cars
. Love this car so much ...
Dodge SRT-4: SportCompactCar of the year
- Thread starter Frustrated Palm
- 206 comments
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- Somewhere.
I, personally, think it's a bit on the over rated side.
Sure, it has 220hp, sure, it's lightning quick, sure, it's relatively cheap. But it's heavy, and not exactly good looking...
So, it'll do the quartermile in the low 14s. It's great, of course, the fastest FWD car in existence in North America, in a good while. But straight line speed isn't the only thing that matters, and personally, i think that's where the SRT-4 fails to impress.
It weights 2900lbs or so, it has no LSD, no camber adjustment whatsoever. Mopar may have an LSD as an option, but on a car that powerful, it should be factory fitted from the beginning.
I'd be willing to bet my shirt, that with equal drivers, the SRT-4 would get its ass handed to it by the old Integra Type-R, and the Mazdaspeed Protege, 2 cars renowned for their incredible handling. Both cars, according to SCC's previous tests, have better handling performance. Call me biased, i don't care, i'll still say the DC2 chassis Integra Type-R is the best FWD car ever produced, and it'll take more than a turbocharged Neon to make me change my mind.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not hating the Neon... i just don't think it's that spectacular.
Sure, it has 220hp, sure, it's lightning quick, sure, it's relatively cheap. But it's heavy, and not exactly good looking...
So, it'll do the quartermile in the low 14s. It's great, of course, the fastest FWD car in existence in North America, in a good while. But straight line speed isn't the only thing that matters, and personally, i think that's where the SRT-4 fails to impress.
It weights 2900lbs or so, it has no LSD, no camber adjustment whatsoever. Mopar may have an LSD as an option, but on a car that powerful, it should be factory fitted from the beginning.
I'd be willing to bet my shirt, that with equal drivers, the SRT-4 would get its ass handed to it by the old Integra Type-R, and the Mazdaspeed Protege, 2 cars renowned for their incredible handling. Both cars, according to SCC's previous tests, have better handling performance. Call me biased, i don't care, i'll still say the DC2 chassis Integra Type-R is the best FWD car ever produced, and it'll take more than a turbocharged Neon to make me change my mind.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not hating the Neon... i just don't think it's that spectacular.
...not saying it's an all-around bad car. Dodge did a good thing bringing this car to production, especially for the price it's at, and especially because North America is usually counted out when it comes to powerful versions of normal cars. I wouldn't buy one in the end but I'd certainly consider it against the WRX.
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It isnt a Neon. Just based on it. It actually handles better than the Integra (it was some racing mag, forgot the name). If you drove one you would see. I dont think it is really heavy anyway and weight isnt always bad. Dodge wanted to leave alot of room for people who wanted to personalize and customize their car. They dont want you to buy expensive parts if you are going to replace them anyway...
- 2,312
- Misnblu
- Misnblu
No big deal. With the aftermarket, this car can be with the best of them. Heh, who can afford a car with an lsd anyway, ever price those?
I disagree. The Neon platform is one of the winningest in the SCCA Autocrosses. It handles great straight out of the box and with some suspension tuning, yes, it will outhandle the rest.
The thing is, the SRT can be made to be a world beater.
Compare the costs to the Integra TypeR and the SRT. The Mazdaspeed Protoge is a fine car too, but mod for mod, the Neon would tear it a new one.
Lastly, the Intergr Type R is a rare car and not in the same league as the MazdaSpeed or the SRT. Remember that these cars are still commuter cars that have a great sporting flavor.
All the cars mentioned are great cars and have great capabilities, but for the money without all the extra stuff, the SRT is the best buy, period.
Misnblu
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All 3 cars are specially built editions based on normal platforms.
The Type-R had 15" tires, and still cornered a skidpad, or slalomed, better than both the Neon and the Protege.
The Neon is a great platform, but add 70 turbocharged and laggy horsepower to it, and it's not the same anymore. Several magazines reported torque steer at low speeds, which was almost unexistent in the Type-R, and the Protege.
The Type-R had 15" tires, and still cornered a skidpad, or slalomed, better than both the Neon and the Protege.
The Neon is a great platform, but add 70 turbocharged and laggy horsepower to it, and it's not the same anymore. Several magazines reported torque steer at low speeds, which was almost unexistent in the Type-R, and the Protege.
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Well some pro racers who have tried it reccomend it over the Integra and a few others. I think one was in the JGTC but Im hard at remembering Japanese names...
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BTW, what magazine was it? All the ones I have read think it is better than the Integra's and such. C&D, MT, SCC, Autoweek, and LCC...
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BTW, No offense. I seem to sound offensive sometimes...
- 2,312
- Misnblu
- Misnblu
No not at all, just making opinions which you have all the rights to do so.
The Integra Type R has equal length halfshafts and the others dont to save money and tooling costs.
The Integre Type R is a race car in sheeps clothing whereas the SRT and Mazdaspeed are sheep in wolfs clothing. There is no comparison.
Oh, I did read the SCC magazine article and as much as I like their opinions, they can be biased sometimes. Nothing wrong with that as the Type R is one helluva car for sure.
Misnblu
The Integra Type R has equal length halfshafts and the others dont to save money and tooling costs.
The Integre Type R is a race car in sheeps clothing whereas the SRT and Mazdaspeed are sheep in wolfs clothing. There is no comparison.
Oh, I did read the SCC magazine article and as much as I like their opinions, they can be biased sometimes. Nothing wrong with that as the Type R is one helluva car for sure.
Misnblu
- 25,084
- Somewhere.
Well SCC likes to switch favorite cars about every issue, so don't be surprised if they like something else next time... First it was the SE-R Spec V, then they tested another one, and found it was utter crap... and they raved, and then did exactly the same with the MP3, the SVT Focus, the Si (yes, they actually found something good in it! Must be the seats! 
). Keep in mind SCC's SRT4 tests were done with a preproduction model, and it is pretty common for carmakers to boost their car's performance for magazine testers (Mazda had shaved the tires on the Mazdaspeed Protegé they gave them (SCC), it wouldn't surprise me Dodge tweaked the ECU to get a bit more boost... everyone does that, just look at Motor Trend's tests)
I'm not saying the SRT4 is a bad car, it's probably very good. I can't wait to test drive one, just for the kicks. But, i still think the execution's a bit flawed... It doesn't look the part, for one, i haven't seen a modified Neon that looked good. What would it have been to sell it 2000$ more, but include an LSD in the package, and get rid of the damned spoiler? Unless it's been wind tunnel tested (like the ITR's and the MP3's) it's probably useless.
). Keep in mind SCC's SRT4 tests were done with a preproduction model, and it is pretty common for carmakers to boost their car's performance for magazine testers (Mazda had shaved the tires on the Mazdaspeed Protegé they gave them (SCC), it wouldn't surprise me Dodge tweaked the ECU to get a bit more boost... everyone does that, just look at Motor Trend's tests)I'm not saying the SRT4 is a bad car, it's probably very good. I can't wait to test drive one, just for the kicks. But, i still think the execution's a bit flawed... It doesn't look the part, for one, i haven't seen a modified Neon that looked good. What would it have been to sell it 2000$ more, but include an LSD in the package, and get rid of the damned spoiler? Unless it's been wind tunnel tested (like the ITR's and the MP3's) it's probably useless.
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
Mugen, I'll take that action. I'll put a bone-stock first gen Neon ACR coupe up against the ITR any day. That's a much better comparison since both cars are made for the same purpose (road racing), unlike the SRT. The SRT is made for one purpose only - to make Hondas pee their pants. Somebody have reliable performance specs on the ITR?
The Neon dominated SCCA Showroom Stock B and C classes from 1995 until they legislated it off the podium in 1999. The reason they did so was serious complaining from other manufacturers (particularly Honda) that they didn't have a chance against a $13,000-or-less-new Neon.
In 1998, Grassroots Motorsports subtitled their annual "What To Race" issue with this tag line: When In Doubt, Buy A Neon. These people are serious racers and autocrossers. They know what they're talking about. The only reason they didn't repeat that in 1999 was that in order to shut the whiners up, the SCCA changed the formerly 'Showroom Stock' rules to allow Honda, Mazda, Nissan, and other cars to run non-factory parts. The Neon wasn't allowed any extra goodies... wonder why?
It's still highly competitive in autocross competition. It would be tearing up Improved Touring racing as well if the SCCA hadn't seen fit to class it with the RX-7 and Z cars instead of with the GTi and other front drivers, where it belongs.
I don't have anything against ITRs, as long as they are real ones with 5 lugs and not Pep Boys fakes. I'd be very happy to own one if it weren't for people like you. Maybe next time you should know a little bit more about what you make fun of. Coming from a company that knows a lot about turbo four cylinders - Dodge - I think you may wish you'd paid a little more attention in class. Ever ridden in a GLH or GLHS? Scary fast, for under $3000 including the price of the car. I've seen a brand new Corvette with temporary tags snap an axle trying to beat one at the drags. Ever ridden in a Spirit R/T? Looks like a granny car but it will hand an Eclipse turbo it's butt.
The SRT is full of little tricks, too: like that fake hood scoop. Two screws to remove the inserts, and you notice it opens up into a wide channel in the underhood support stamping. Then you notice that particular channel leads directly over the airbox, which has a suspiciously wide, flat top. Hmmm. Cut a 5-inch hole in the airbox top, a corresponding hole in the underside of the hood support, add $1 weatherstripping, and voila! Functional ram air in 10 minutes. With Mopar Performance support I predict you'll be able to bolt 50 hp onto this car for under $1000.
I'm not going to argue the SRT's styling because that's strictly individual taste. I'm not crazy about it but it's substantially better looking than a crappy Wings West body kit that sags all over and cracks.
misnblu, actually, the SRT does have equal-length halfshafts though the regular Neon doesn't. The transmission is not the same as the standard Neon/J-body NVT350 unit either; it's a lot heavier duty. And you'll be able to buy a real Quaife LSD for it for about $1500 (though I know we weren't discussing the extra parts).
PR, even at 2900 lbs (is that a published figure? I've heard lower numbers), the SRT should handle very well. I know people on the Chrysler Small Car Platforms team, and many of them are road racers; at least one is a former National Champion Neon driver. These guys are dedicated to handling, and that's just on the base car. The people on the PVO team are no different. The car will be set up to handle well. It could also be improved by swapping in the 2-gen ACR's cool inverted, double-adjustable struts (made by Dynamic Suspensions in England, of BTCC fame). Camber can be fixed with a $15 bag of bolts, or a die grinder. The marks on what to grind out are cast into the strut knuckle. ACRs originally came from the factory with adjustibility for 0 to -2.4 degrees (SCCA max allowable) of camber. The only reason they did away with that is that stupid dealers were not aligning them to customer specs (which was originally included in the package price), then they were billing Chrysler for warranty work to align them after the sale.
Frustrated Palm Tree, I'm glad you love the car too, but why do you keep insisting it's not a Neon? It's a Neon. Get over it already. If you know what you're talking about, that's nothing to be ashamed of anyway.
The Neon dominated SCCA Showroom Stock B and C classes from 1995 until they legislated it off the podium in 1999. The reason they did so was serious complaining from other manufacturers (particularly Honda) that they didn't have a chance against a $13,000-or-less-new Neon.
In 1998, Grassroots Motorsports subtitled their annual "What To Race" issue with this tag line: When In Doubt, Buy A Neon. These people are serious racers and autocrossers. They know what they're talking about. The only reason they didn't repeat that in 1999 was that in order to shut the whiners up, the SCCA changed the formerly 'Showroom Stock' rules to allow Honda, Mazda, Nissan, and other cars to run non-factory parts. The Neon wasn't allowed any extra goodies... wonder why?
It's still highly competitive in autocross competition. It would be tearing up Improved Touring racing as well if the SCCA hadn't seen fit to class it with the RX-7 and Z cars instead of with the GTi and other front drivers, where it belongs.
I don't have anything against ITRs, as long as they are real ones with 5 lugs and not Pep Boys fakes. I'd be very happy to own one if it weren't for people like you. Maybe next time you should know a little bit more about what you make fun of. Coming from a company that knows a lot about turbo four cylinders - Dodge - I think you may wish you'd paid a little more attention in class. Ever ridden in a GLH or GLHS? Scary fast, for under $3000 including the price of the car. I've seen a brand new Corvette with temporary tags snap an axle trying to beat one at the drags. Ever ridden in a Spirit R/T? Looks like a granny car but it will hand an Eclipse turbo it's butt.
The SRT is full of little tricks, too: like that fake hood scoop. Two screws to remove the inserts, and you notice it opens up into a wide channel in the underhood support stamping. Then you notice that particular channel leads directly over the airbox, which has a suspiciously wide, flat top. Hmmm. Cut a 5-inch hole in the airbox top, a corresponding hole in the underside of the hood support, add $1 weatherstripping, and voila! Functional ram air in 10 minutes. With Mopar Performance support I predict you'll be able to bolt 50 hp onto this car for under $1000.
I'm not going to argue the SRT's styling because that's strictly individual taste. I'm not crazy about it but it's substantially better looking than a crappy Wings West body kit that sags all over and cracks.
misnblu, actually, the SRT does have equal-length halfshafts though the regular Neon doesn't. The transmission is not the same as the standard Neon/J-body NVT350 unit either; it's a lot heavier duty. And you'll be able to buy a real Quaife LSD for it for about $1500 (though I know we weren't discussing the extra parts).
PR, even at 2900 lbs (is that a published figure? I've heard lower numbers), the SRT should handle very well. I know people on the Chrysler Small Car Platforms team, and many of them are road racers; at least one is a former National Champion Neon driver. These guys are dedicated to handling, and that's just on the base car. The people on the PVO team are no different. The car will be set up to handle well. It could also be improved by swapping in the 2-gen ACR's cool inverted, double-adjustable struts (made by Dynamic Suspensions in England, of BTCC fame). Camber can be fixed with a $15 bag of bolts, or a die grinder. The marks on what to grind out are cast into the strut knuckle. ACRs originally came from the factory with adjustibility for 0 to -2.4 degrees (SCCA max allowable) of camber. The only reason they did away with that is that stupid dealers were not aligning them to customer specs (which was originally included in the package price), then they were billing Chrysler for warranty work to align them after the sale.
Frustrated Palm Tree, I'm glad you love the car too, but why do you keep insisting it's not a Neon? It's a Neon. Get over it already. If you know what you're talking about, that's nothing to be ashamed of anyway.
- 25,084
- Somewhere.
That i didn't know. Very useful info. 
Mopar has shown packages back at SEMA, in September, raising the horsepower to about 300 with very little work. Problem is, raising boost on an internally stock engine won't be too good, no matter how stout the engine is, and if things go as planned, the package won't be fitted with a warranty, nor will it be road legal, which makes it kinda pointless...
I'm not afraid, it'll be a hit. I just hope it comes in another color than yellow, i haven't seen one another color, yet...
Mopar has shown packages back at SEMA, in September, raising the horsepower to about 300 with very little work. Problem is, raising boost on an internally stock engine won't be too good, no matter how stout the engine is, and if things go as planned, the package won't be fitted with a warranty, nor will it be road legal, which makes it kinda pointless...
I'm not afraid, it'll be a hit. I just hope it comes in another color than yellow, i haven't seen one another color, yet...
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
What it would have been is nonexistant. The only reason the SRT made it into production despite Dieter and the Daimler fascists was that it had to list for under $20,000. A lot of Chrysler people, from PVO all the way down to the line workers, came together to send a big 'up yours!' to Der Fatherland with this car. In fact it came down to the assembly guys at the Belvidere, Illinois Neon plant. They spent their own time to figure out a way to simplify installation of the taller 2.4 engine and the extra plumbing, which made a big enough difference in the assembly time/costs to win the project a green light.
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The engine will take 300 hp; don't worry at all. It's derived from the turbo 2.4 in the Mexican Stratus R/T, with substantial improvements to the head design among other things. This engine benefits from 5+ years of real world testing in a serious performance market. It's not like slapping a Hahn kit onto your base model car and hoping for the best. This thing is made to handle the Grainger valve trick and plenty besides.
Very few of the aftermarket companies' stuff is actually 'road legal', but that doesn't mean much besides a disclaimer. Really what it means is that it's not CA smog-legal. But nearly anywhere else that's not a problem.
How does red grab you? Or black?
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Originally posted by Mugen
a neon needs awd and a turbo from tha factory to stand a chance against a Type-R? LOL
o my bad. so its just turbocharged not awd.
im sure with a similar sized turbo and intercooler on a Type-R there would be a fair contest. i still wont think twice when i see one on tha street
It's not a Neon!
just a base for the car. THe engine isnt even the same. The reason I say it isnt a Neon is Diamler Chrysler developed a totally new engine (in cooperation with the PT turbo builders, but those engines are pretty different too) for the SRT4, which usually means a new car, thats Just my opinion. It did better than the Type R in some testing at St. Louis IR. Im not putting down the type R or anything, I agree its a kickass car...
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I heard someone say Dodge developed the car just to scare Honda drivers. Not true. Dodge was listening to what kids wanted these days. Actual things people sent them. They wanted something good for the street (other than the Stratus which is one of the top 5 tuner cars in the US for kids 18-25 - Tomorrow's Technician Magazine). I'm not saying it's perfect or anything. When you push the gas a little too hard you get a little shaking but I can live with it. Plus it is hard to see out the back window in the Rear view mirror because of the functioning (yes it works, but not really adjustable) wing in the back, but I can live with that as well. I checked back at the dealer. They are already sold out of the shipment. The Dodge Engineers took some factory SRT4's to the SCCA Pro rally and finished first in their class. Just because it is an American compony doesnt mean they cant make a good Sport Compact...
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Oh and it comes in four colors PR...
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- GTP_Duke
Heh, FPT, don't take this the wrong way, but I know what I'm talking about. It's a Neon. I personally know some of the engineers who did development work on it and the PT, and others within Chrylser's technical wing. I've been an admin at www.neons.org for almost 5 years, and so I've known about the possibility of the SRT since about 2000 and I've known it was a green light project since about September of 2001.Originally posted by Frustrated Palm
It's not a Neon!
I'm really not trying to brag (truly sorry if it sounds like it), but I'm here to tel you it is a Neon.
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I said it was my opinion of it.....
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
Actually, it's not like that. The vast majority of the SRT comes straight out of the Neon parts bin, including the unibody and all the sheet metal except the hood, the majority of the suspension parts (the springs are a little stiffer and the struts are valved differently, but they're the same struts), the front and rear fascias (which is very common between trim levels of the same car), and some of the interior parts like the seats (ditto). The engine is different but the Chrysler 2.0 DOHC and 2.4 DOHC are fundamentally the same (all critical dimensions are common, except stroke). The transmissions are different.
At a rough guess I'd say 80% of this car is straight out of the regular Neon parts bin. They really had to keep development and parts costs down, whihc means a minimum of special parts. If somebody really wants to debate that I can get ahold of some of my tech friends and get the figure for you.
And I certainly never compared the SRT to the WRX. But it is $5,000 cheaper, don't forget.
I also discouraged comparing the SRT to the sainted ITR, as well.
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Yeah I hate comparing two great cars as it usually leads to arguments and people start to hate each other over it and you lose friends like that. My friend's older brother has a ITR and I rode in it on the way to the movies. Its pretty good though I was only riding in it...
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BTW, alot of the people in my neighborhood have really good cars for some reason. At least a majority ...
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