Does the Deluge of New Hypercars Hint at a Return for GT1 Racing?

[KingFrog]

They mostly hint at the disappearance of the middle class, and the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

99% of them sold will never see a race track, and the only block they’ll be seen on is at the auction, 15 years from now.

Except the new class will be 75% cheaper..

 

[LeGeNd-1]

It'll probably end with manufacturers making silly one off homologation specials and trying to sell them as road cars, which would spiral costs out of control again. But man, for those brief few years, the WEC grid will look absolutely amazing. It's almost like PD predicted this with its Gr.1 VGTs

I would die to see a grid like this (I know some of these are fictional and some not comparable performance wise - BOP is your friend):

Ferrari FXXK Evo
McLaren P1 GTR
McLaren Senna GTR
McLaren BP23 LM
Porsche 918 RSR
Porsche 908 RSR
Pagani Zonda R LM
Pagani Huayra BC LM
Koenigsegg One:1 LM
Lamborghini Veneno RGT
AM Vulcan AMR Pro
AM Valkyrie AMR Pro
AMG Project One LM
Toyota GR Super Sport LM
Bugatti Chiron VGT
Hennesey Venom F5 LM
Apollo Intensa Emozione LM
Scuderia Cameron Glickenhaus 003C LM
Brabham BT62 LM
Ariel P40 LM
Nio EP9 LM

Any other hypers I've missed?

 

[Northstar]

Except the new class will be 75% cheaper..

Even if you go by Toyota's "budget" operation you're still looking at a $25,000,000/year operation (Audi and Porsche were at least $200,000,000 each!), which is certainly not a small amount for a glorified marketing campaign. And that is just at the beginning! As history has shown time and time again there is a "golden" period whenever a new class forms where quite a few manufacturers join and it seems like they finally hit the jackpot. Than teams get tired of losing and a few years later the class is dead because costs skyrocketed.

 

[Aphelion]

Even if you go by Toyota's "budget" operation you're still looking at a $25,000,000/year operation (Audi and Porsche were at least $200,000,000 each!), which is certainly not a small amount for a glorified marketing campaign. And that is just at the beginning! As history has shown time and time again there is a "golden" period whenever a new class forms where quite a few manufacturers join and it seems like they finally hit the jackpot. Than teams get tired of losing and a few years later the class is dead because costs skyrocketed.

Yeaaah surree buuuuttt... it would be awesome. As it usually is.

 

[Downhill Dino]

Even if you go by Toyota's "budget" operation you're still looking at a $25,000,000/year operation (Audi and Porsche were at least $200,000,000 each!), which is certainly not a small amount for a glorified marketing campaign. And that is just at the beginning! As history has shown time and time again there is a "golden" period whenever a new class forms where quite a few manufacturers join and it seems like they finally hit the jackpot. Than teams get tired of losing and a few years later the class is dead because costs skyrocketed.

It might scare away those who don't want to blow so much money on it, but like for example a 5-year regulation rewrite wouldn't be the worst thing to implement. Nothing extreme, but changing it up so it doesn't get to that point.

 

[Nielsen]

Maybe I'm missing something but this should not be understood as some kind of GT1 revival? Several comments in this thread seems to suggest it will be. However, prototypes with freedom of design based on a hypercar concept. To me that doesn't sound like a GT version of a production hypercar. Keep in mind GT1 was ditched because it became unfeasible for most parties involved. Why suddenly bring it back then?

This could end up being something vaguely reminiscent of IMSA's DPi class and the LMGTP class that brought cars such as the aerodynamically challenged Mercedes-Benz CLR in 1999. Ultimately, I'm understanding this will be some kind of economy LMP top class with proportions that resemble hypercars, giving fans something a bit more relatable to watch than those taking the overall podiums for the last 18 years or so.

I'll be holding my horses until more details emerge, and in the meantime pray that purely electric powertrains won't be part of it. Le Mans without authentic sound would be hard to watch, very hard...

 

[breyzipp]

I called this a long time ago. I knew GT1 was coming back after LMP1 failed. It’s the next logical step.

But seriously FIA, call this new class GT1 or we’re having a problem.

Personally, I just want to see if Ferrari is returning to the top with a successor to the LaFerrari. That would be really interesting.

Maybe the FXX K for the 2020 WEC?

Either way, great news. But what will happen to LMP2 or the new privateer LMP1? Will these still exist? Will we get LMP1/LMP2/GT1 and GT2 mixed for Le Mans?

 

[FLX1981]

If the Valkyrie comes to Le Mans, I will come back, too! What an awesome idea... 👍

 

[Ares85]

It would be great to see the hypercars back in the top class of le mans, AMR Vulkan, Valkiria, fxx k they would look really great as race cars.

 

[Liquid]

How the top level endurance racing class cycle has always been:

sports cars -> sports car homologations -> sports car one-offs -> not even road based sports prototypes -> sports cars

Wash, rinse, repeat.

That said, the prototypes in this cycle have been around since 1999/2000 so we're long overdue a return to "production" sports cars, a return to which I am quite interested in if it comes to fruition.

 

[Northstar]

Yeaaah surree buuuuttt... it would be awesome. As it usually is.

No argument there, if they can get 4-5 manufacturers on board we will have a few years of great racing.

but like for example a 5-year regulation rewrite wouldn't be the worst thing to implement. Nothing extreme, but changing it up so it doesn't get to that point.

What you said is pretty much the only way it will work in the long term. That requires the FIA/ACO to be proactive though, which doesn't seem to be their specialty (or any sanctioning bodies for that matter, they all seem to be very reactive to these sorts of things).

 

[McLaren]

Sure lot of hopes & wishes in this thread. But, the only hypercars I see partaking in this are the Valkyrie, Project One, Toyota's , & BP23/Senna for now. I think others will may want a fresh build to maximize whatever rules are initially in place, esp. Porsche above all else.

However, I don't foresee Lamborghini, Ferrari, Pagani, or Koenigsegg getting in on this as they have found themselves success in a niche market most others can't dive in to. Ferrari's racing hypercar is nothing more than an expensive club funded by its participants and used for R&D in its Formula 1 cause & their SP cars are specific one-offs never to be replicated. Lamborghini's hypercars are being built to bring the brand into Ferrari's SP territory; the upcoming Aventador Jota will have a special edition based on it that will be tailored for VIPs, not racing. Lamborghini's Squadra Corse has its hands full running the Huracan as is. Pagani & Koenigsegg's current cars are being built with the same mindset as they allow clients to add new development pieces on to the car; 1 Regera already has new aero work added.

I just don't think the Italians & the Swedish have such a goal in mind right now. Christian & Horacio would probably welcome the idea, but the Regera was already built with speed in mind, so Christian would have to tinker with it. Horacio's Huayra is likely done; his production line is busy with the Roadster & BC Roadster. My bet is Horacio is already pinning its successor which could be designed to meet this class, but chances are an outside company would be required to build the race car once again.

 

[Epic B]

Let's just hope a hypothetical AMG Project One Le Mans car doesn't have the same... issues as the CLR.

 

[karelpipa]

Excellent news. Just please dont put qutas for male to female driver ratio.

 

[TexRex]

Excellent news. Just please dont put qutas for male to female driver ratio.

Misogynist.

#leanin

 

[AlexGRFan97]

That said, the prototypes in this cycle have been around since 1999/2000

The shift was practically overnight (well, the year between races) but from the 1997 24H of Le Mans to the 1998 24H of Le Mans, the field went from largely GT/GT Prototypes to largely LM Prototypes. Both of the below photos are of the front runners from those respective races on the first lap.

1997 - McLaren F1 GTR, Lotus GT-1, Porsche 911-GT1, Panoz Esperante GTR-1, Lister Storm (if you look at the full version of this photo you'll see the Dodge Viper GTS-R's, Saleen S281s and Porsche 993s in the background too, but I cropped those out)

1998 - Toyota GTone, Mercedes-Benz CLK-GTR, BMW V12 LM, Porsche 911-GT1, Porsche LMP1 and the faint glimpse of a Nissan R390 GT1:

That said, at least 1998 had some GT cars out in contention, even if the field was greatly diminished from the previous year. Fast forward to 1999 and:

You don't even so much as see a GT car until that first Viper all the way back in the 20s. From there it's mostly ex-works 993s that just 2 - 3 years before would have had a shot at winning the whole thing.

Sure I'll be sad to see LMPs go, but let's be honest, after a few years things get stale in their presence. It happened with the 956, it happened with the R8 and most recently it happened to the 919 after less than a handful of races. Supercar manufacturers participating on comparatively shoestring budgets will never stand a chance against bespoke motorsport subsidiaries formed merely to dominate everything they could lay their hands on. They'll come back when the time is right.

 

[Calmlity]

Too sad we lose LMP1. Those cars are beautiful while this year F1s and some of MotoGPs are ruins.

 

[Exxon 51]

Yesssssssssssssss bring back the 90s group C era finally on its way back with road cars )

 

[Liquid]

Yesssssssssssssss bring back the 90s group C era finally on its way back with road cars )

Group C's heyday was in the 1980s and it had killed sports prototypes by 1992.

 

[Exxon 51]

I still consider group C in 1980s & 1990s before year 2000

 

[Liquid]

I still consider group C in 1980s & 1990s before year 2000

It's factually incorrect. From 1994 onwards the top class of sportscar racing was Group GT1. And even then, Group C had been in decline for the three to four years before that.

But from 1982-1989 it was the top class and even rivalled Formula One in attendance and popularity.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

It's factually incorrect. From 1994 onwards the top class of sportscar racing was Group GT1.

I didn't know that GT1 started back in 1994, I just assumed it was all in the late 90s, early 2000s. That's neat to know.

 

[trustjab]

They should call it DP-E because let’s be honest that’s what it is

Why would they call it DP which stands for Daytona when they are the ACO's rules? The ACO is in charge of Le Mans, so if anything the name should be LMGTP. You know, like it was in the late 90's.

Reading around other sites like dailysportscar.com it sounds like it's a hypercar look not a definite have to enter one. No "homologation specials" like the 911 GT1, CLK-GTR.

 

[LancerEvo7]

Reading around other sites like dailysportscar.com it sounds like it's a hypercar look not a definite have to enter one.

Or, in other words, a P1 equivalent of DPi.

 

[Tajima]

2 things:

FXXK Evo Race Car.

NO Bop.

 

[Exxon 51]

To me its group C from 1980s up too end off 1999 like wrc group B from 1980 to 86 & btcc super touring era from 1990 too 1999

 

[TiMcF1]

I think this is great, and even solidates the idea of bugatti's chiron VGT. Though I do feel like this will encourage the rate of one off(or road homologation models) from manufacturers to happen more frequently. I don't hate them, but like LMP1, can't really relate to them even though some of the tech is transferred to road cars. With the LMP1 I can accept that they are specialised, and therefore do not require a road going counterpart. I admire LMP1, cars and did too, group c cars they way one might admire a fighter jet.

From 1996 porsche exploited a loop hole in FIA, then silver arrow the following year with nissan followed suit things got out of hand. This was partly the reason ferrari withdrew from competing with the F50 GT1 (Who had legitimately manufactured the F50 road car) in the top class of world endurance racing at the time.

Glad the the homologation specials existed, but clearly examining the short run they had competing does seem to point out thier existence was a mistake in terms of the intended regulations at least.

Lets just hope SRO and FIA clearly establish limits this time to what ever choices are made.

 

[karelpipa]

With what were Porsche and others cheating?

 

[TiMcF1]

With what were Porsche and others cheating?

I meant they bent the rules not cheating. Developing purpose built race cars/prototypes but homologated as GT1's Sorry wrong choice of words and editted.

 

[trustjab]

Or, in other words, a P1 equivalent of DPi.

Dpi's don't look like hypercars. Aside the Mazda somewhat, I don't notice much manufacturer appearance in DPi's. That's my opinion at least, maybe you don't feel the same. But you look at GT1/LMGTP and you know what manufacturer you were seeing. Hopefully the new cars look like modern versions of these