Dolphins deserve same rights as humans.

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I will never understand why people think animals should have the same or more rights than humans.

A perfect example is when you see a story on the news about a man who killed a dog and then took a picture of it. People get so up in arms about it and call the man every name in the book and want him prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Now say the same man killed a random guy walking down his street. People just don't care when they here that, they write it off as another statistic or whatever it is they do.

Honestly people are more important than dogs, cats, fish, whatever else. No, I don't support needlessly killing animals but when people do it's just not a huge deal to me, kill a human though and it's appalling. Yes, I know humans are animals, I just see a human being different than a dog or cat.

I also find it extremely odd that people who get upset over the senseless killing of a dog or cat, will squash an ant or a spider, swat a fly, spred pesticides around their house or trap rodents with out a second thought. Or eat any form of meat or any vegetables that come from a farm using pesticides.

And no, I'm not an insensitive jerk, it's seems to be how most people label me when I say this.
 
Won't it be interesting in a couple hundred years another species from a different galaxy will be considering the same. Except this time the species in question will be Homo sapiens.


Just food for thought.
 
I will never understand why people think animals should have the same or more rights than humans.

I don't see how it's a big deal. If animal are as intelligent as humans, they're basically humans and should be treated as such.

As far as I know, there aren't any animals that are candidates for human rights. Dolphins may be smart, but we can't really communicate with them. When a lawyer can sit down with a dolphin and explain laws to it, then they should get full human rights.

As it stands right now, dolphins may be eligible for their own form of rights, but I'm not yet convinced that they deserve (and can observe) human rights.

Side note: I don't get why giving Dolphins rights would mean that they could no longer perform entertainment. I bet some of them like that environment with free food and care. If we give them rights, they should choose whether or not they want to work in entertainment, just like any human would.

Won't it be interesting in a couple hundred years another species from a different galaxy will be considering the same. Except this time the species in question will be Homo sapiens.


Just food for thought.

Humans can clearly communicate though. I don't really see ET meets human the same as human meets dolphin. But that doesn't mean ET would agree.
 
Exorcet
I don't see how it's a big deal. If animal are as intelligent as humans, they're basically humans and should be treated as such.

As far as I know, there aren't any animals that are candidates for human rights. Dolphins may be smart, but we can't really communicate with them. When a lawyer can sit down with a dolphin and explain laws to it, then they should get full human rights.

As it stands right now, dolphins may be eligible for their own form of rights, but I'm not yet convinced that they deserve (and can observe) human rights.

Side note: I don't get why giving Dolphins rights would mean that they could no longer perform entertainment. I bet some of them like that environment with free food and care. If we give them rights, they should choose whether or not they want to work in entertainment, just like any human would.

Humans can clearly communicate though. I don't really see ET meets human the same as human meets dolphin. But that doesn't mean ET would agree.

And other species cannot communicate? You do realize we can carry on conversations with other primates through sign language which we have been teaching them for generations?

What happens when "ET" communicates through electric impulses, telepathy, or whatever and have no f-ing idea what you are talking about? lol.
 
And other species cannot communicate? You do realize we can carry on conversations with other primates through sign language which we have been teaching them for generations?

What happens when "ET" communicates through electric impulses, telepathy, or whatever and have no f-ing idea what you are talking about? lol.

I don't think we could explain concepts like laws to an ape with sign language, but I'm not sure. It something I don't really know much about.

Humans already understand the concepts of laws and rights, we have/observe them. If ET does the same, we'll at least have that in common.

Think about it in terms of two cultures that don't share a common language interacting. Despite that large road block, they can still get along and also develop a form a communication between each other because they can recognize each others' ability to do so. Of course, they could also declare war and blow each other up.
 
It's a Trick!
...says this article.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ries-naturalist-Desmond-Morris-set-truth.html

The mahout (trainer) guides his elephant to paint the same picture (over and over) by tugging on its ear. The elephants are trained to do this in order to amaze the onlookers and have them purchase the paintings.

Anyway, that what the Daily Mail alleges.

Skeptically submitted,
Steve

Depends on what you mean by trick. I don't see it as tricking viewers, it's a stunt performed by the elephants after training. They're trained to create these paintings, and they do it on command. The elephant doesn't necessarily understand what it's looking at, or have any creative input into the composition of the artwork, but it's still an astonishing degree of intelligence, control, and memorization. There is absolutely no way you could train a dog to do that - no matter how long you spent.

I also find it extremely odd that people who get upset over the senseless killing of a dog or cat, will squash an ant or a spider, swat a fly, spred pesticides around their house or trap rodents with out a second thought.

A dog or cat has a fairly high functioning brain compared to a rat. Dogs understand a fair amount and become emotionally distraught when something bad is happening to them or one of their companions. There's a significantly greater capacity for pain and love from a dog or cat than there is from a spider or a rat.

Furthermore, people get more upset when something bad happens to a dog than they do when something bad happens to some stranger that they don't know because they know the dog is innocent. The dog's life is entirely the making of the people around it. It had no real choices at any point. When you see someone harming or torturing a dog you know that the dog is not responsible in any way for its situation and was innocent of even the possibility of that situation occurring. The same is not true of a drug deal that goes south.

It's a very similar calculus that is applied to a kidnapped or harmed child vs. a the same thing happening to an adult.
 
I also find it extremely odd that people who get upset over the senseless killing of a dog or cat, will squash an ant or a spider, swat a fly, spred pesticides around their house or trap rodents with out a second thought. Or eat any form of meat or any vegetables that come from a farm using pesticides.

But animals are not all one species. There's an enormous difference between a cat or dog and an ant.

Also there is a big difference between killing a sewer rat that might carry dangerous diseases or pests that ruin crops and senseless killing of a dog or cat.
 
I won't drag in here what belongs in another thread, but simply put either you:

a) believe there's a fundamental difference between man and animal, and therefore granting animals "the same rights" you grant to humans is not a debate;

b) believe man is just another animal, and you opt for one of these:

i) since they're equal to us ... we should treat them as we treat our own kind (humans) and therefore we should stop killing and eating most of them;

ii) since we're animals anyway, and indeed predators on the top of the food chain, why bother?​

:D
 
I don't think you can bunch all animals together though as there are so many species that are so incredibly diverse. You cannot judge a chimpanzee the same as a jellyfish as there is an incredible difference in intelligence etc.

So I don't think one set of rights could be used to all species of animals. Maybe one that applies to more advanced species like the great apes and dophins or elephants, and one for lesser. Or perhaps several. But of course it might be a bit too complicated.
 
You know, the problem about rules is the problem about defining the border. Of course you don't think much about squashing an ant, as you would about killing a large mammal.

But if you leave the extreme examples, you will find yourself in a slippery slope and you will never know exactly WHERE to draw a line.

In any case, we don't eat cows because they are stupid. We eat them because they are easy to keep, and to kill, and provide lots of meat.

Lucky wales for many millenia, they were very hard to kill. Unlucky wales this last century, we figured out how to make it easy.
 
Of course you are right. It's a very difficult thing. But still, some animals deserve a high level of rights. Perhaps not as high as us, but still high.
 
i) since they're equal to us ... we should treat them as we treat our own kind (humans) and therefore we should stop killing and eating most of them;

ii) since we're animals anyway, and indeed predators on the top of the food chain, why bother?

Neither is correct. Humans are just animals, but not all animals are equal.

It's something that needs to be decided on a case by case basis. I agree with your second post that it's probably not going to be easy. But it should be decided if there is a chance that some animals could be "individuals" as the article put it.

For the record, I don't needlessly squash ants, spiders, or anything else. If I do, there's usually a reason, and part of the reason is I can't talk things out with them.
 
Furthermore, people get more upset when something bad happens to a dog than they do when something bad happens to some stranger that they don't know because they know the dog is innocent. The dog's life is entirely the making of the people around it. It had no real choices at any point. When you see someone harming or torturing a dog you know that the dog is not responsible in any way for its situation and was innocent of even the possibility of that situation occurring. The same is not true of a drug deal that goes south.

There are many killings of innocent people, including infants and children. An infant has never been able to make a choice, but when one is killed it gets a 2 minute blurb on the news and that's that. If someone is hurting and killing dogs, they do an in depth investigative report and turn it into a 10 minute segment. It makes no sense.

At the same time not all dogs are innocent. I've been through dog attacks where I wasn't doing anything and I was bitten. I felt no remorse beating the dog till he stopped and I know I seriously injured him. I was more worried about my well being and whether or not I might have contracted rabies.


But animals are not all one species. There's an enormous difference between a cat or dog and an ant.

Also there is a big difference between killing a sewer rat that might carry dangerous diseases or pests that ruin crops and senseless killing of a dog or cat.

There's no difference between killing a sewer rat or a dog, they are both living creatures that can feel pain. And rats or spiders are often just going on about their business and humans kill them without remorse. Sure they can harm you but so can a dog, cat, or anything else for that matter.

If you say there is a difference all you are doing is trying to justify why something cute and cuddly like a dog is somehow worth more then something ugly like a rat.

We also do not know nearly enough about ever animal on the planet to know what they feel or their level of intelligence. There could be spiders that have a high level of intelligence, we just don't know.
 
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Won't it be interesting in a couple hundred years another species from a different galaxy will be considering the same. Except this time the species in question will be Homo sapiens.


Just food for thought.

If an intelligent being comes to Earth, with the intent on annihilating the human race, it will happen without us knowing much of it, or anything we can do about it.

Hell, all humans don't have the same rights as "humans", so before we start branching out into other species, we need to focus on our own. (sounds like another argument)

In the end, there is always an equalizer for the "lesser" species on Earth; tragic asteroid, ice age, extreme drought, etc etc. Some of them will rise up for their turn eventually.
 
I was more worried about my well being and whether or not I might have contracted rabbis.

UGIPY.jpg


Scary stuff.
 
I think we should consider extra protection for higher intelligence creatures.

The only problem with that is pigs. They're really smart - way smarter than cats and dogs - but really tasty.
 
The only problem with that is pigs. They're really smart - way smarter than cats and dogs - but really tasty.

Indeed. And the quoted post reminded me this. A different perspective on what Christmas is really all about! :D

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