Don't talk to the cops...

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Does the cop having a "hunch" or "gut feeling" give him probably cause? If so I have a feeling if you have a driver that doesn't know the "right thing to say" can give him enough to bypass permission and search? At least according to stuff I've seen on Cops... (although I don't think cops is a good example for some reason...)
 
In reguards to the probable cause matters.There is a K-9 sniff law which is perfectly legal and does not fall under any search laws of the 4th amendment.So if you ever get pulled over (and hopefully your doing nothing illegal),keep your fingers crossed and hope it is not a Canine unit. This also applies to search of a students and lockers in school,as well as teachers personal property.

This is very interesting,I was unaware of this as well :

Public School K9 Narcotic Sniffs!The following information has been obtained from various legal sources, including the web site of Terry Fleck. If any doubt, check with your local law director and/or prosecutor.
School Narcotic Sniffs:

Basics:

1.) A canine sniff of property is not a search under the Fourth Amendment.

2.) There does not need to be prior reasonable suspicion prior to the canine sniff.

3.) A positive alert from a trained Narcotics Detector Dog gives reasonable suspicion to the presence of narcotics. This reaction gives the handler probable cause for a warrant.

4.) School officials need reasonable suspicion to search a student or their property. A canine alert is that reasonable suspicion.

5.) School officials do not need a warrant to conduct the search.


Courts are divided about the reasonableness of canine student searches, however two out of three state that a canine sniff of a person is a search. A canine sniff of a student requires reasonable suspicion. Only a “passive alert” dog should be used.


A) New Jersey v T.L.O. (469 U.S. 325 (1985) U. S. Supreme Court.

Even though this is not a canine case, the United States Supreme Court held that: 1. School searches fall under the Fourth Amendment’s reasonableness standard. 2. School officials do not need a warrant to search a student or their property. 3. School officials do not need probable cause to search; the legality of a search of a student should depend simply on the reasonableness, under all the circumstances of the search (reasonable suspicion).


B) United States v Place (462 U.S. 696 (1983) U. S. Supreme Court.

Exposing a person’s property, which is located in a public place, to the sniff of a trained narcotics detecting dog is not a search under the Fourth Amendment.


C) United States v Sokolow (490 U.S. 1 (1988) U. S. Supreme Court.

A sniff from a Narcotic Detector Dog and a positive alert provides probable cause to obtain a search warrant for property.


D) United States v Solis (536 F. 2d 880 (1976) Ninth Circuit.

1. Evidence acquired by odor so detected may furnish evidence of probable cause. 2. Drug Agent’s use of a Narcotic Detector Dog to detect narcotics odor and then obtain search warrant, was not a search under the Fourth Amendment.


E) United States v Maldonado-Espinosa (968 F. 2d 101 (1992) First Circuit.

A drug-sniffing dog’s positive alert to a person’s property provided probable cause for the issuance of a search warrant.


F) Doe v Renfrow (631 F. 2d 91 (1980) Seventh Circuit.

1. Detention of student for 1-1/2 hours was not an unreasonable seizure. 2. Entry by school officials and uniformed police officers into each classroom with the intent to locate drugs was not a search. 3. Walking up aisles and sniffing by a narcotics detector dog did not violate students’ right. 4. Upon a canine alert, there was no violation of student’s rights by ordering her to empty pockets onto her desk. 5. Nude search of student based solely upon a canine alert after she emptied her pockets was unreasonable.


G) Zamora v Pomeroy (639 F. 2d 662 (1981) Tenth Circuit.

1. A warrantless search of school lockers conducted by trained police dogs was reasonable under the Fourth Amendment, even when no reasonable suspicion existed. 2. Where school had assumed joint control of student’s locker and where school authorities conducted warrantless search of lockers after trained police dogs indicated the presence of drugs, there was no search under the Fourth Amendment.


H) Horton v Goose Creek Independent School District (690 F. 2d 470 (1982) Fifth Circuit.

1. Police dogs’ sniffing of student lockers in public hallways and automobiles parked on public parking lots did not constitute a search. 2. Dogs’ sniffing of students’ persons could not be justified without reasonable cause. 3. Canine searches of students’ persons could not be justified without reasonable cause. 4. The standard of reasonable cause for school officials is less stringent than that applicable to law enforcement, but requires more than good faith. 5. If, as a result of canine sniff searches of students’ cars and lockers, school had reasonable cause to suspect presence of contraband, no warrant is required to search. 6. Minimal harassment arising from the mere presence of dogs on campus was not unreasonable.


I) Hearn v Board of Public Education (191 F. 3d 1329 (1999) Eleventh Circuit.

A search of a teacher’s automobile resulting from a random parking lot sweep by officers, where a narcotics dog alerted to the teacher’s automobile gave probable cause to enter and search the interior.

This alert also gave reasonable suspicion of possible drug use by teacher, so that termination of teacher for refusing to take a drug test after discovery of marijuana in her vehicle was reasonable.


J) John F. Dengg v State of Ohio (Case No. 97-P-0113) (132 Ohio App. 3d 360; 724 N.E.2d 1255; 1999 Ohio App. LEXIS 851).

Police K9’s were requested by Streetsboro, Ohio, school officials to conduct a search for illicit contraband at Streetsboro High School, a public high school, and were deployed to the high school parking lots as part of that exercise.

The police had probable cause to search the automobile driven by the appellee to school because a police K9 alerted it handler to the presence of drug odor when it sniffed the exterior of the appellee’s vehicle.

Under the rule of law pronounced in the cases of Place, Waldroup, Palicki, French and Riley, the use of a drug sniffing dog to detect the presence of the odor of contraband by sniffing the exterior of an object is not a “search” within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment.

Once the K9 alerted to the odor of drugs, the police had probable cause to conduct a search of appellee’s automobile. Finally, pursuant to the holding in Ross, once the police officers had acquired the requisite of probable cause, they could conduct a warrantless search of appellee’s vehicle under the “automobile exception”.


J) B.C. v Plumas Unified School District (192 F. 3d 1260 (1999) Ninth Circuit.

1. The close proximity sniffing of the person is offensive whether the sniffer be canine or human. Because the dog sniff infringed on a person’s reasonable expectation of privacy, we hold that it constitutes a search. 2. A random and suspicionless dog sniff search of a person is unreasonable.


Suggested flow chart of school searches of property:

1.) School official requests random K-9 sniff of property.

2.) Law enforcement conducts K-9 sniff.

3.) Positive alert from K-9.

4.) Established probable cause for the officer and reasonable suspicion for the school official.

5.) School official conducts a warrantless search.

6.) The student suspect is dealt with administratively (also dependant upon what and how much contraband is found) by the school official and/or the school official requests criminal prosecution through law enforcement.



This is also interesting :

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu8tmsOxJ2hkBoD9XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0ajRrYWNmBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNARjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA01BUDAwMV85Mg--/SIG=12ogcofpv/EXP=1240334822/**http%3a//www.sconet.state.oh.us/rod/docs/pdf/9/2008/2008-ohio-3587.pdf
 
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In my state they don't need to have probable cause to search lockers as they are the property of the school.

Also, cops get a bad rep. I have several friends who are cops and they all say that the more you cooperate the chance of getting let go with a warning go up. Honestly everyone hates cops until someone breaks into their house, than there is nobody they want to see more.
 
As I understand it, New Jersey vs. T.L.O. simply meant that they couldn't go through your stuff. Not that they couldn't go through your locker.
 
cops are just lower social echelons on a power trip... they should all be shot with their own guns and left for dead in the middle of the desert
 
cops are just lower social echelons on a power trip... they should all be shot with their own guns and left for dead in the middle of the desert

Ummm, I respectfully disagree.
 
As I understand it, New Jersey vs. T.L.O. simply meant that they couldn't go through your stuff. Not that they couldn't go through your locker.

While in school,I was always under the impression that your locker and it's contents were your responsibility,even though they are the schools (corresponding state) property.

A) New Jersey v T.L.O. (469 U.S. 325 (1985) U. S. Supreme Court.

Even though this is not a canine case, the United States Supreme Court held that: 1. School searches fall under the Fourth Amendment’s reasonableness standard. 2. School officials do not need a warrant to search a student or their property. 3. School officials do not need probable cause to search; the legality of a search of a student should depend simply on the reasonableness, under all the circumstances of the search (reasonable suspicion).


Am I correct,or did I mis-understand ? :confused:
Your takes on this 💡 may differ from mine.
 
cops are just lower social echelons on a power trip... they should all be shot with their own guns and left for dead in the middle of the desert

Really, so who are you going to call when someone has a gun pointed at your head asking for your wallet. Chances are you aren't going to be able to fight him off since he could pull the trigger before you make a fist. The only people that hate cops are the ones that are always in trouble, but they fail to realize it's not the cops fault they got caught. Jus wondering, do you hate firefighters and EMT's also?
 
While in school,I was always under the impression that your locker and it's contents were your responsibility,even though they are the schools (corresponding state) property.
They are your responsibility, but the lockers being the property of the school still gives them the authority to search them. The main difference is that they cannot search through your stuff that is inside your locker without probably cause, which must be established beforehand. For example, if they were doing a drug bust, they could check all of the lockers that they wanted. But they could not go ruffling through your bookbag. However, if they saw a bag of weed sticking out of your bookbag halfway, they essentially get a free pass so long as they inform the authorities beforehand.
 
roll down your window, turn off your engine, and put your hands on the wheel unless asked to do something.
 
Ummm, I respectfully disagree.

Really, so who are you going to call when someone has a gun pointed at your head asking for your wallet. Chances are you aren't going to be able to fight him off since he could pull the trigger before you make a fist. The only people that hate cops are the ones that are always in trouble, but they fail to realize it's not the cops fault they got caught. Jus wondering, do you hate firefighters and EMT's also?



Perhaps you two should read Tom Servo's user title...
 
Perhaps you two should read Tom Servo's user title...
I really don't care haw sarcastic he was being, you just don't make jokes about taking someone into the middle of the desert and shooting them, especially someone who is willing to risk their lives to keep your safe. If he for one second thought that would be funny than he needs some serious help.
 
Bah. Last time I was talking to a cop was when I got pulled over for no apparent reason well except for driving an ex cop car. After everything checked out we had a nice little convo about police interceptors. He commented on my car and I commented on his and we were both on our way. Cops are humans too.
 
Bah. Last time I was talking to a cop was when I got pulled over for no apparent reason well except for driving an ex cop car. After everything checked out we had a nice little convo about police interceptors. He commented on my car and I commented on his and we were both on our way. Cops are humans too.
Some have dogs with them too and that makes them animal lovers !
 
I really don't care haw sarcastic he was being, you just don't make jokes about taking someone into the middle of the desert and shooting them, especially someone who is willing to risk their lives to keep your safe. If he for one second thought that would be funny than he needs some serious help.


I guess I'll keep my joke about smoking firemen to myself then...
 
And my closest friend is a cop.

I know it's hard to read sarcasm on teh intarwebz sometimes, but you shouldn't take things so personal. :D
 
Really, so who are you going to call when someone has a gun pointed at your head asking for your wallet. Chances are you aren't going to be able to fight him off since he could pull the trigger before you make a fist.


I doubt the criminal will appreciate you getting your phone out to call the police. Which last I remember takes longer than making a fist :P


I have never had much problems with the police, I have been pulled over many times and they often come on strong at first but I cooperate and be friendly and they back off and become friendly in return. Police seem too used to trouble makers and start off strong for that reason.
 
I doubt the criminal will appreciate you getting your phone out to call the police. Which last I remember takes longer than making a fist :P


I have never had much problems with the police, I have been pulled over many times and they often come on strong at first but I cooperate and be friendly and they back off and become friendly in return. Police seem too used to trouble makers and start off strong for that reason.

I kind of meant after they get done taking all you're money.
 
I doubt the criminal will appreciate you getting your phone out to call the police. Which last I remember takes longer than making a fist :P


I have never had much problems with the police, I have been pulled over many times and they often come on strong at first but I cooperate and be friendly and they back off and become friendly in return. Police seem too used to trouble makers and start off strong for that reason.

So is that why the CHP officer that pulled me over on my bike after he thought I ran two red lights in a row was yelling at me?
 
So is that why the CHP officer that pulled me over on my bike after he thought I ran two red lights in a row was yelling at me?


Haha


Well in all my cases I didn't do much if anything wrong most the time, once a cop heard my recirc valve (blow off) at 2am just after he finished chasing a 300ZX, so he had a big attitute when he heard a blow off valve, they turned out cool and commenting on my car after talking to them for a while. he even admitted they get a attitute towards people initially for all they put up with during the night.

Other times their computer had my plate number down as unregistered (which was false), another time I lit my tyres up across an intersection when the light went green just after I fitted a new engine (small block 350 chev into a Monaro) he had good reason to be mad but after I explained my excitement of fitting the new engine and I was foolish he let me go with a verbal warning (and appreciation of my rare car). Most the time it is random, on weekend nights, they like to get all the street racers, drunks, thiefs, trouble makers and general dodgy people that roam around at those times. Once the check me out they're fine.

and too many others to count.
 
So is that why the CHP officer that pulled me over on my bike after he thought I ran two red lights in a row was yelling at me?

I would assume that was because he was a little uptight that you might have been putting yourself, innocent bystanders, and him all in danger.
 
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