Down Shift Bug (possible fix)PS4 

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After testing the Lotus Exos S1 I found downshifting is a major problem from top gear into the slower corners e.g. turn 3 at Silverstone GP. Then I looked at the configuration and saw Auto Clutch = ON. So I switched it off and lo and behold the downshifting problem disappeared. I can remember switching it on as it provided stability for a certain car but I cannot remember which one. I will try some other cars with Auto Clutch on and off and see what gives.

I was going to bring something like this up.. I drove the Lotus Exos S1 for awhile and had no issues with my setup. So I wanted to compare settings to make sure we are on the same page, I would be willing to try what others are using.

Here are mine.

Automatic Gearbox = OFF
Automatic Clutch = OFF
Automatic Blip = OFF
Ideal Racing Line = OFF
Traction Control = Factory
ABS = Factory
Stability Control = 0%
Mechanical Damage = 30%
Tyre Wear = OFF (not really sure why I have these last 3 settings OFF I should change them)
Tyre Blankets = OFF
Fuel Consumption = OFF

Car setup was default
 
How come you go with 30% damage? Mine is all the above but with 100% damage, tyre wear on, tyre blankets on and fuel consumption on.
 
@ALB123 The Ferrari F40 and the Nissan GTR GT3 don't seem to have this bug. I notice something else. The downshifting seems a lot smoother with "Auto Clutch" = Off and "Auto Blip" = On for many GT3 cars.
 
How come you go with 30% damage? Mine is all the above but with 100% damage, tyre wear on, tyre blankets on and fuel consumption on.

When I was first learning to heal-toe with some of the cars that have a more delicate transmissions it would allow me to get in more practice before killing the trans, but it would give me feedback (grinding noise) still so I knew I made a bad shift. Some of them are very easy to destroy the transmission if your timing is off. Then because it is just in practice, I never really bothered to turn it back up. I guess I should though.
 
@ALB123 The Ferrari F40 and the Nissan GTR GT3 don't seem to have this bug. I notice something else. The downshifting seems a lot smoother with "Auto Clutch" = Off and "Auto Blip" = On for many GT3 cars.
This is interesting if it fixes the issue... If the game goes like

1)downshift -> take one gear down (get new rpm value)
2)Add to new rpm value +xxxrpms of auto throttle blip
3) go in gear with new rpm+xxx

instead of
1)downshift -> take one gear down (get new rpm value)
2)check rpm range and see if blip is needed then Add to new rpm value +xxxrpms of auto throttle blip
3) go in gear with new rpm+xxx
else: do not blip and keep natural rpms

it may be well that the issue is that the game may factor rps with throttle blip applied in any case even when a blip would have been superfluous, and it make it so that the lower gear rpms+throttleblip rpms is actually high enough to enable downshift protection.

Not sure i managed to explain myself,but i hope someone may get around my engrish lol
 
First, let me start by stating I'm in no way trying to tell you guys you're wrong, this is intended to be a helpful post. There's enough people talking about this that I believe something may be going on.

Issue 1) Which a lot of people are experiencing, is the lack of downshift when using paddle shifters at or near maximum revs. This is an over zealous DSP (Down Shift Protection) mechanism cutting in. I get this regularly and some cars are worse than others (sometimes).

I think this is part of what's confusing us PC guys. This is exactly how DSP is supposed to work, to prevent you from downshifting into a lower gear when the engine revs are too high. This is how DSP works in real life, any car with a proper paddle shifter won't let you downshift if the engine is at a speed that would cause damage by going down to a lower gear. So IMO, based on this limited description, it does not sound like an issue or that it's being overzealous, it is working as intended. When they first introduced DSP to AC I hated it and was missing shifts all the time, after a week or two I got used to it and now I don't even think about it. I still encounter it a few times a week, but it's pretty rare because I've adjusted my driving style. Last night I was testing the Maserati GT4 and actually had it happen several times in just a few laps, but I also drove the Cayman GT4 Clubsport at the same track and did not encounter it at all.

Issue 2) This is the one that some people have experienced (me included) where the car will not downshift until you are going very slow and are at approximately half revs or lower. Makes the car almost undriveable and this is what I have reported the possible fix for here. If you have had this you will definitely know you had it. It is that bad.

This, however, does sound like an issue. As long as you're at a sensible engine speed, say three-quarters rev or lower, it should always let you downshift. Forcing you to wait until you're at half revs or lower does seem overzealous and that suggests to me there's something screwy somewhere. There are a few cars on the PC that are more restrictive than others (Alfa 4C comes to mind, last I drove it seemed like you had to be near half revs to downshift) but the majority of the cars will let you downshift with much higher revs than that.


Another issue that needs to be addressed here is that Consoles and PCs are on totally different software and what happens in one doesn't necessarily transpose to the other. Even though consoles are supposed to be a few updates behind PCs it still isn't the same. So having PC guys (as helpful as they think they are) telling us we don't have a problem or in some way imagining it is not very helpful or productive. Of course PS4 and XBone are slightly different as well and the XBone isn't quite as powerful as the PS4 so also introducing issues.

I hope this clears the air a little ;-)

This is why I've not chimed in much. I've not played the console version so I only know what I'm reading and I haven't seen enough specifics or videos of this problem to be of any help or form a solid opinion of what's happening. DSP is restrictive and will not let you downshift if you're at very high revs (some cars are more restrictive than others), when this feature was first added it caused a lot of confusion and complaints on the PC side as well but now it's never even discussed because we've all just adapted to it. So my first thought was that you guys were going through the same cycle, but it does seem like there's possibly an error happening in some instances.

If you are interested I would be more than happy to do some tests on the PC, make note of when certain cars downshift/won't downshift, and then we can compare the same car/track on console to see how the results are matching up. That will give us hard evidence to look and compare how the different version are behaving. Just let me know if I can do anything to help, happy to do what I can.
 
I'm wondering if people are struggling with this because Gran Turismo allows absolute abuse of downshifting with no consequences and it is a bad habit that needs to be broken.

I cringe when I watch some GT or PCARS videos with downshift abuse.
 
I'm wondering if people are struggling with this because Gran Turismo allows absolute abuse of downshifting with no consequences and it is a bad habit that needs to be broken.

I cringe when I watch some GT or PCARS videos with downshift abuse.

We have discussed this already.. and yes "A LOT" people are reporting that as the issue, but there are a few people that are having an issue when the revs are in fact low.. so we are trying to figure out what is happening for those few who are actually having an issue.
 
In the experience I had with the problem, I'm 100% positive it was not because I was shifting too early. I know this because I watched what was happening when the car (Porsche Caymen GT4 @ Brands Hatch T1) refuse to shift down when I called for it, I made an adjustment to my approach and turn in for the corner, and was then able to shift as planned and it was at higher revs than before.

So to my way of thinking it is not because of the DSP, but something else... At least in this instance.

So what I noticed was the abs light was going crazy at the point of my downshifts, I thought of reducing the brake pressure applied, and slightly earlier to accommodate speed, and in doing this I stopped having downshift issues and as I mentioned, I was also at higher revs.

I know what people are saying about GT6 allowing you to downshift like mad, and be bouncing of the limiter into the corner. But this is not my way of driving at all.

@BrandonW77 I'd be happy to run some tests and cross check with ya. :cheers:

However I've not had the problem as of late, so will have to go looking for it!
 
I agree with hobbsy, sometimes, not always, particularly on the Nissan GTR GT3 car on a PS4 (not PC), I cannot downshift even at low revs. I also try clicking the left shift multiple times (not trying to abuse it but just for testing), and that makes the problem worse, it doesn't shift at that time but all of a sudden it downshift multiple times. Again, this happens sometimes, not always.

However, somehow auto clutch off and auto blip on helps preventing this happening but not completely.
 
So what I noticed was the abs light was going crazy at the point of my downshifts, I thought of reducing the brake pressure applied, and slightly earlier to accommodate speed, and in doing this I stopped having downshift issues and as I mentioned, I was also at higher revs.

See, that's bizarre. Why would the ABS be getting involved? Weird, and that makes me think there's a wire crossed somewhere. I'm not sure if I have a visible ABS light but I'll try to check.


@BrandonW77 I'd be happy to run some tests and cross check with ya. :cheers:

However I've not had the problem as of late, so will have to go looking for it!

Excellent. Drive a few cars that you think may exhibit the problem and try to make note of what the approximate engine speed is when DSP denies you (can you guys see engine speed?). Then try to also take note of what engine speed it does finally allow you to downshift. Then I'll take the same car to the same track on my end and see if the behavior is similar. If you can think of any other way to test it we'll do that too. You know how to get ahold of me. :sly:

If anyone knows of certain cars that always exhibit the problem of not letting you downshift until the engine speed is very low, please let us know so we can test. Don't bombard me though, let's just do a few at a time for now because I have other AC related stuff (and real life stuff) I need to do too but I will try to squeeze in some quick tests and help you guys if I can. If nothing else maybe we can get a list that you guys can take to the support forum and show that on PC car X will allow downshifts at 7,500 RPM but on console the same car won't let you downshift until you're below 5,000 RPM. Whether that will accomplish anything, I don't know, but I think it's the best we can do.
 
I'm wondering if people are struggling with this because Gran Turismo allows absolute abuse of downshifting with no consequences and it is a bad habit that needs to be broken.

I cringe when I watch some GT or PCARS videos with downshift abuse.
I think my record is in a Ferrari 488, 3 taps of the paddle without a shift, the shift finally coming with engine revs at below 3000. So I'd say no.

I'm beginning to feel like it will take a video of the user shifting synced with video of what's happening in game for people to believe this. I do not have time to do this.
 
I think my record is in a Ferrari 488, 3 taps of the paddle without a shift, the shift finally coming with engine revs at below 3000. So I'd say no.

I'm beginning to feel like it will take a video of the user shifting synced with video of what's happening in game for people to believe this. I do not have time to do this.

Video would help, but I believe there's probably something going on and getting a video of it would be tricky. You've given me a car to test though so I will check out the 488 and report how it behaves on my end. Do you recall if this happened when you were in a turn or a straight? According to a report from another user the problem happened when ABS had been triggered, but when the same turn was taken with a different approach and ABS had not been triggered the car would downshift normally. So it sounds like there could be some issue with the ABS and DSP conflicting with each other.
 
This isn't the downshift protection. Racing tonight on the Porsche Cayman GT4 at the Red Bull Ring, soon as 100% full brake then missed downshifts. Went off the track at one point. I then started braking 80 and 90% and not a missed downshift. Slotted into 2nd no problem. Sometimes it was revving hard if I went down too early from 3rd to 2nd with that 80 - 90% brake pressure. As long as I drove like this, perfect gearing and never flew off the track 8 laps after 8 laps.

I used to hate this car, well more of dread it. It actually became so much fun with this workaround.
 
First, let me start by stating I'm in no way trying to tell you guys you're wrong, this is intended to be a helpful post. There's enough people talking about this that I believe something may be going on.

BrandonW77 thank you for your well considered and helpful post. This is how I envisaged cross platform cooperation was supposed to work :-)


Last night I was testing the Maserati GT4 and actually had it happen several times in just a few laps, but I also drove the Cayman GT4 Clubsport at the same track and did not encounter it at all.

OK we may be onto something here. When I drove the Maserati GT4 car for the first time at the RBR I too thought to myself the DSP is a bit aggressive with this car too.

So I will propose we use the Maserati GT4 and the Red Bull Ring (new, lots of slow corners especially 2 and 3) to test our theories about issue #1 over zealous DSP. So I suggest Settings Factory ABS 1 and Factory TCS 1 Standard Tune including standard brake bias. (I am starting to have an inkling the issue may be connected to rear wheel lock up)

And the point was raised that GT5/6 has taught a lot of us (definitely me as well) to abuse the downshifts. Too fast into a corner - just bash the gears down some more until the rear locks up and you can drag the tail around the corner ;-) Yes I will admit I can be accused of driving like this :-(

BUT and this is a big BUT I still feel that under hard braking sometimes I do have to use the downshift paddle excessively to get a completed downshift to occur "on some cars some times". So *IF* we can identify these "some cars" lets then work on the "sometimes" and may actually make some headway here.

I am in a fairly good position here because I *CAN* adjust my brake pedal pressure to how I like. I have Fanatec Club Sport Pedals version 1 that has an adjustable brake pressure knob on them and it uses a load cell so it has a more "real car" feel (+ i have modded them as well). I have it adjusted so that my hard braking only registers about 80-90%% in (any) game and I then have to push harder to achieve 100% panic braking. So I can back this adjustment off so it feels like the standard (rubbish) 2 pedal set up the T300 came with or you need to be The Hulk to even get it to 50%.

Let's see if we can get to the bottom of this guys?

Last question: Can any of the PC guys look at the code or car parameters? I am interested to know that if a car with ABS is travelling at speed and a downshift is requested and the transmission output shaft speed or rear axle/wheel speed is zero will a down shift occur? e.g in a hard braking rear wheel lock up situation. Technically in a manual transmission with the rear wheels locked at speed wheel, diff, transmission and engine speed is zero. So will a down shift occur? Y/N? Or more importantly *IF* the downshift is likely to cause the wheels to lock will a downshift be prevented?
 
Interesting.. These GT4 cars do not have ABS right? or it is very limited I think. Maybe the lock-up is one of the factors.
 
Interesting.. These GT4 cars do not have ABS right? or it is very limited I think. Maybe the lock-up is one of the factors.
Change the brake balance! The problem I think is that most GT drivers and PCars drivers are so used to just shifting down no matter what the RPM is at. In real life I drive 65 Impala with no tach.It's all by sound. You can't shift into 1st gear above 15 MPH. That's 1965 tech.
 
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I'm wondering if people are struggling with this because Gran Turismo allows absolute abuse of downshifting with no consequences and it is a bad habit that needs to be broken.

I cringe when I watch some GT or PCARS videos with downshift abuse.
It's certainly a bug, the DSP was there from the start but since 2 updates ago it is very intrusive. I guarantee any PC player that tries the console version will spot it at least the 2nd time it happens.
 
Interesting.. These GT4 cars do not have ABS right? or it is very limited I think. Maybe the lock-up is one of the factors.

I've had missed downshifts in the Escorts due to locking since they have no ABS but yes the Porsche Cayman Clubsport GT4 has ABS.

68% front is stock on the Cayman GT4, 60% is the lowest.
 
I think my record is in a Ferrari 488, 3 taps of the paddle without a shift, the shift finally coming with engine revs at below 3000. So I'd say no.

I'm beginning to feel like it will take a video of the user shifting synced with video of what's happening in game for people to believe this. I do not have time to do this.

Ok, drove the 488 for a bit and made a video. My paddles are pretty loud so you can hear when I'm downshifting. From what I can tell as long as you're below 5500-6000 RPM you can downshift but above that the DSP kicks in. In the video I was trying to be a bit aggressive on the downshifts but I only triggered it once, going to second gear in the first slow left hander. At the end I slam the brakes on at the end of the front stretch and rapid fire down the gears and it does trigger a few times trying to go to fourth. So, it sounds like on your end it's much more restrictive than on my end.



I've had missed downshifts in the Escorts due to locking since they have no ABS but yes the Porsche Cayman Clubsport GT4 has ABS.

68% front is stock on the Cayman GT4, 60% is the lowest.

The Maserati GT4 does not have ABS though and it's quite easy to lock the fronts.
 
Video would help, but I believe there's probably something going on and getting a video of it would be tricky. You've given me a car to test though so I will check out the 488 and report how it behaves on my end. Do you recall if this happened when you were in a turn or a straight? According to a report from another user the problem happened when ABS had been triggered, but when the same turn was taken with a different approach and ABS had not been triggered the car would downshift normally. So it sounds like there could be some issue with the ABS and DSP conflicting with each other.
It definitely seems to be related to ABS, which will be more active if braking while turning or over rough surface. That is when it hits me harder. I can't recall for sure if I've experienced it in non ABS cars.

I'm gonna see if I can catch my left paddle and tach in the same frame with iPhone and we'll have our grainy pictures of Bigfoot.
 
Ok, drove the 488 for a bit and made a video. My paddles are pretty loud so you can hear when I'm downshifting. From what I can tell as long as you're below 5500-6000 RPM you can downshift but above that the DSP kicks in. In the video I was trying to be a bit aggressive on the downshifts but I only triggered it once, going to second gear in the first slow left hander. At the end I slam the brakes on at the end of the front stretch and rapid fire down the gears and it does trigger a few times trying to go to fourth. So, it sounds like on your end it's much more restrictive than on my end.
Just ran a few laps with the 488 GTB around Imola and had no issues with DSP down shifting at or slightly above 6000 rpm using a DS4 (badly I might add, my wheel is being temperamental ATM). I tried with auto clutch and without, both were the same, no DSP intervention until down shifting at between 6200 - 6500 rpm which to me was perfectly acceptable. I have had issues before with DSP, just not recently but I haven't driven much either due to the wheel issues:(.

Also thanks for helping, it's greatly appreciated:tup::cheers:
 
I ran the 488 at Nurb GP and could only get it to miss shifts by shifting too early (DSP.) It seems that once it misses a shift legitimately via DSP, subsequent shifts that seem to be coming in under 6000 rpm don't register. It's really hard to say though.
 
I have been doing some testing.

Maserati GT4 Factory ABS and TCS (So it has none. I originally thought it did but I had ABS ON in the main menu)

Car stock, everything as from garage.

In car view minus the steering wheel so I can see the dash and Tacho. HUD also on with Tacho/speedo.

Any track it doesn't matter but I started at RBR because I first felt DSP was bad here. I then went and found tracks with long straights.

Here are some facts:

Max RPM in gear 7,500 (note none of the tachos are very accurate/easy to read)

1-2 change on rev limiter 7,500 = 44mph

Driving at speed with no brake just on over run clicking downshift paddle until shift occurs
2-1 change at 5,200ish revs = 46mph

I also tried this with 2-3 and 3-2 changes as well and got similar results.

Also note: NO Reverse or Neutral until stationary. This I am pleased with as no more false neutrals in slow corners.

Conclusions: This car will down change at a slightly (and I mean slightly) higher road speed than the up shift. After GT6 it just does not feel right. With bonnet view on and the Tacho off to the RH side it it very easy to not really know what your revs are. 5,000 revs feels very and I mean VERY quite and the road speed feels slow.

So it would appear that this particular car does what it is supposed. Would I like to be able to mash it down a gear or two at a higher RPM? Dead right I would. Should Kunos disable this function and just let us blow motors up? It would be a quick way to learn ;-)

I am starting to think this Issue #1 is more a "human perception" thing rather than a fault. It may even be classed as design feature ;-) I should point out issue#2 is still real and needs to be addressed.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this now?
 
I'd love to see people in races fail if they mashed the gearbox too hard. I'm all for engine braking but with due respect. Not like arcade racers where the gear numbers are always red when they downshift.
 
So it would appear that this particular car does what it is supposed. Would I like to be able to mash it down a gear or two at a higher RPM? Dead right I would. Should Kunos disable this function and just let us blow motors up? It would be a quick way to learn ;-)

Anyone else have any thoughts on this now?
As far as I understand it... DSP is only installed on cars that have it in real life. So, to try and stick to the whole idea that "sims attempt to mimic reality" I suppose they should have DSP wherever it is installed on the real car(s). Don't worry, there are plenty of cars that you can blow up during your AC career. Pretty much any car that has a stick shift...old or new. :cheers:
 
So cars with DSP, how about being punished for bouncing off climbing through the gearbox? Does this happen in real life?
 
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