Down Shift Bug (possible fix)PS4

[35mm]

It seems that once it misses a shift legitimately via DSP, subsequent shifts that seem to be coming in under 6000 rpm don't register.

I've noticed this as well. Once you legitimately miss a shift, you then have a harder time registering it, even when your revs are already below the DSP range.

It's usually in these situations that you then completely miss the corner and I sometimes even wonder if this isn't the real root of our problem...



Looking at @BrandonW77's video, this doesn't happen:

At 0:48~0:50 (going from 3rd to 2nd gear) DSP first kicks in, but immediately after it registers 2nd gear.



I'll also add that I'd love to contribute to this thread with some videos, but I've been sick and haven't touched my PS4 in a while (haven't even tried the new packs yet).

 

[BrandonW77]

I've noticed this as well. Once you legitimately miss a shift, you then have a harder time registering it, even when your revs are already below the DSP range.

It's usually in these situations that you then completely miss the corner and I sometimes even wonder if this isn't the real root of our problem...



Looking at @BrandonW77's video, this doesn't happen:


At 0:48~0:50 (going from 3rd to 2nd gear) DSP first kicks in, but immediately after it registers 2nd gear.



I'll also add that I'd love to contribute to this thread with some videos, but I've been sick and haven't touched my PS4 in a while (haven't even tried the new packs yet).

But if you look at the very end of the video when I jam the brakes and bang down through the gears it takes me multiple attempts to get out of fourth gear, even though the revs had dropped a bit. So it could be a possibility that sometimes when you trip DSP it momentarily locks you out of being able to shift.

 

[35mm]

But if you look at the very end of the video when I jam the brakes and bang down through the gears it takes me multiple attempts to get out of fourth gear, even though the revs had dropped a bit. So it could be a possibility that sometimes when you trip DSP it momentarily locks you out of being able to shift.

I watched that, but I think that's just the normal DSP in action.

You'll notice that the car will engage 4th as soon as you enter the 110~115mph speed range, which is also the speed where you usually upshift from 4th to 5th.

At least that's what I'd expect from the system, and would never consider that strange (or would it caught me off-guard).

 

[BrandonW77]

I watched that, but I think that's just the normal DSP in action.

You'll notice that the car will engage 4th as soon as you enter the 110~115mph speed range, which is also the speed where you usually upshift from 4th to 5th.

At least that's what I'd expect from the system, and would never consider that strange (or would it caught me off-guard).

When I did that I was actually trying to get the DSP to engage multiple times because I was wondering if you trip it once if it momentarily locks you out of further downshift attempts, which is what happened but I'm not sure if that's the cause. When it happened earlier in the video there was a brief pause between attempts and the second attempt was successful. Too small of a sample size to say for sure if the theory is valid or not though.

 

[Fredzy]

I've noticed this as well. Once you legitimately miss a shift, you then have a harder time registering it, even when your revs are already below the DSP range.

It's usually in these situations that you then completely miss the corner and I sometimes even wonder if this isn't the real root of our problem...

Ha, I think you're on to something! Still, seems inconsistent. Deliberately trying to downshift too early, the 911 GT1 was letting shift to way high RPMs without brake just testing the DSP function. Under hard brake with ABS it seemed a lot more conservative somehow.

Also figure that revs can be dropping so fast, two consecutive downshift attempts (a miss then a successful one) could be enough time for the revs to drop from just right (but DSP doesn't accept) to seeming bogged. Though only "being locked out of shifting momentarily" can reasonably explain some of these.

*edit* also I'll share this post here:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...s4-and-xbox-one.329736/page-247#post-11672419

I did a simple brake pedal mod (stock T300 pedals) which has significantly diminished the "downshift bug" as well as probably eliminated a need for adjusting brake pressure - which I assume we'll get in the next update.

Applying this mod right before trying to experiment with DSP/downshift bug was not the best idea, but illustrated to me that aggressive ABS intervention must have something to do with what's happening.

 

[35mm]

but illustrated to me that aggressive ABS intervention must have something to do with what's happening.

That, I'm pretty sure of, too.

 

[WhoosierGirl]

That, I'm pretty sure of, too.

I am sure that it has to do with ABS applying while your trying to downshift.

I have been able to replicate it a few times now, it always involves "for me" messing up a corner and activated the ABS while trying to downshift at the same time.

 

[Spitfire77]

I did many laps with the Maserati Granturismo GT4, Porsche cayman GT4, the Ferrari GT2, and the Mclaren GT3 all on Red Bull Ring this morning.

My input is I only mainly ran into DSP, which as other said, seems to restrict the next attempt as well (this maybe some sort of debounce protection).

I looked through the 1.09 update notes and there are very vague things that could affect how DSP works making it more restrictive (maybe). These things could have been in the PC version much earlier.

I did not play Assetto Corsa for about 2 months, in the middle of that time we got the 1.09/1.10 updates. Any change during that time would not be as noticeable, if at all, to me.

Pretty much at this point my input won't be much help as I really don't seem to see a bug.

 

[Orayani]

Unless I drive too hard compared to yourself? Would be interesting to see if we were in the same room and testing with the same equipment.

 

[Spitfire77]

Unless I drive too hard compared to yourself? Would be interesting to see if we were in the same room and testing with the same equipment.

I am more of the slow build up kind of driver, warm up tires and work up to the braking zone. I like to use the softest tires I can and make them last. Pretty much I rarely hear the tires squeal. - Not saying this is the fastest way to drive, I am never close to the hot laps people get .. and it is obvious when there is a person with real skills on track as I never get close.

This morning online in a GT3 race on the RBR, I qualified 3rd.. ended up in the back avoiding the first corner muck ups.. then slowly worked my way through. At the end the front cars seem to have over worked their tires and started making mistakes and I ended up winning. Sure I was a full second off the fastest lap but my soft tires were just starting to lose grip on the final lap.

 

[Orayani]

Curious then, can you ever get medium tyres to go green? As I have freakish things with tyres. If my tyres are deep blue, 48 - 62c I get loads of consistent grip. Yet if they ever go green its like I have cold tyres and driving on ice. I cannot make any sense of this.

 

[Spitfire77]

Curious then, can you ever get medium tyres to go green? As I have freakish things with tyres. If my tyres are deep blue, 48 - 62c I get loads of consistent grip. Yet if they ever go green its like I have cold tyres and driving on ice. I cannot make any sense of this.

Not sure off the top of my head how M work, I don't pay as much attention when I join the race late and get stuck with them.

 

[Orayani]

I'm shocked the medium tyres have started going green in the Porsche Cayman GT4 when switching tyre warmers off. :s

Never had the tyres go green in this car.

 

[TT92]

It looks like very few people read or understood my post Re: testing this. I am genuinely trying to help get to the bottom of this or at least help people understand what is actually happening.

Just going out and and "chucking" some wild laps in a random car at your favourite track will or discussing tyre temps will not help.

To diagnose a fault two things must happen:

1) It needs to be identifiable

2) It needs to be reproducible

So I am suggesting you read my post on testing this and find yourself a track with some long straights. Madly braking for corners and looking for apexes will only distract you from observing what is actually happening with the shifts. It would be great if we all had data logging and could look at downshift triggers as opposed to real time parameters but we can't!

Its up to you. Keep wasting time and using guesses or try and get some hard data.

My $0.02 worth

 

[Spitfire77]

It looks like very few people read or understood my post Re: testing this. I am genuinely trying to help get to the bottom of this or at least help people understand what is actually happening.

Just going out and and "chucking" some wild laps in a random car at your favourite track will or discussing tyre temps will not help.

To diagnose a fault two things must happen:

1) It needs to be identifiable

2) It needs to be reproducible

So I am suggesting you read my post on testing this and find yourself a track with some long straights. Madly braking for corners and looking for apexes will only distract you from observing what is actually happening with the shifts. It would be great if we all had data logging and could look at downshift triggers as opposed to real time parameters but we can't!

Its up to you. Keep wasting time and using guesses or try and get some hard data.

My $0.02 worth

Sorry we got off topic with the tire temp thing.. but I did put in a lot of time and came up with data that pointed towards only blocked shifts coming from DSP. My current vote is - working as designed per the updates included in 1.09 that brought many things in-line with the PC version.

 

[TheFlash05]

It looks like very few people read or understood my post Re: testing this. I am genuinely trying to help get to the bottom of this or at least help people understand what is actually happening.

Just going out and and "chucking" some wild laps in a random car at your favourite track will or discussing tyre temps will not help.

To diagnose a fault two things must happen:

1) It needs to be identifiable

2) It needs to be reproducible

So I am suggesting you read my post on testing this and find yourself a track with some long straights. Madly braking for corners and looking for apexes will only distract you from observing what is actually happening with the shifts. It would be great if we all had data logging and could look at downshift triggers as opposed to real time parameters but we can't!

Its up to you. Keep wasting time and using guesses or try and get some hard data.

My $0.02 worth

Ive been keeping an eye on this hoping someone would say something somewhat useful... so my turn now.

DSP kicks in when a downshift is not possible due to the cars current rev range. Keep in mind each gear ratio can also be different. So the shift point can vary for each gear. I.e The Lamborghini Huracan GT3, the ratio from 4th to 5th is wider than 3rd - 4th or 5th - 6th. so you cant downshift at the same point otherwise you'll just bounce of the limiter (DSP kicks in anyway)

So you need to pay attention to the revs on an upshift to know where a safe point is for a downshift. I personally don't have a problem in game (PS4 edition) As for settings, I run Auto Clutch Off, Stability Control Off, I use Auto Blip for cars with a sequential box, turn it off for H Pattern cars, ABS & TC on "Factory". T300RS, T3PA Pedals etc. etc.

Recently I found out that the scale in which ABS & TC is what I would consider backwards, so the higher the number the less intervention. So with say 8 settings for ABS, 1 is strongest, 8 is almost off. I run the highest number possible until I get a lockup. While I doubt that a strong ABS setting will exaggerate this "missed shift problem" it could have some bearing on it. Although I have yet to have this issue.

I see this issue more of a "in GT5, 6 etc... I could just keep downshifting, why cant I do this in AC" problem. Two different games and I think players just need to adapt.

My 2 cents worth.

 

[Orayani]

TheFlash05, this is ABS triggering it and I certainly aint mashing down the gears.

 

[WhoosierGirl]

Ive been keeping an eye on this hoping someone would say something somewhat useful... so my turn now.

Jeez, I can prescribe you a neck brace to keep your ego from breaking your head off.

DSP kicks in when a downshift is not possible due to the cars current rev range. Keep in mind each gear ratio can also be different. So the shift point can vary for each gear. I.e The Lamborghini Huracan GT3, the ratio from 4th to 5th is wider than 3rd - 4th or 5th - 6th. so you cant downshift at the same point otherwise you'll just bounce of the limiter (DSP kicks in anyway)

So you need to pay attention to the revs on an upshift to know where a safe point is for a downshift. I personally don't have a problem in game (PS4 edition) As for settings, I run Auto Clutch Off, Stability Control Off, I use Auto Blip for cars with a sequential box, turn it off for H Pattern cars, ABS & TC on "Factory". T300RS, T3PA Pedals etc. etc.

Recently I found out that the scale in which ABS & TC is what I would consider backwards, so the higher the number the less intervention. So with say 8 settings for ABS, 1 is strongest, 8 is almost off. I run the highest number possible until I get a lockup. While I doubt that a strong ABS setting will exaggerate this "missed shift problem" it could have some bearing on it. Although I have yet to have this issue.

I see this issue more of a "in GT5, 6 etc... I could just keep downshifting, why cant I do this in AC" problem. Two different games and I think players just need to adapt.

My 2 cents worth.

I thought this was GT error also until I started looking into it more. This is a video from a couple ago and at 21 seconds I can easily downshift from 4th to 3rd at just under 5k rpm. At 1:42 I easily go from 5th to 4th at the same rpm. At 1:44 easily drop to 3rd. At 1:50 I have goofed the corner and start to slide/ abs is active IMO and I can't get second even though I am below 5k and even 4K rpm.

I was trying and couldn't get it to downshift, tried several times. Once I turned to the right and was completely off the brakes and back on the gas it finally downshift....not when I wanted to either.

It does not matter to me what caused it but, I know that 77kph and under 4K rpm I couldn't shift to second when I can do easily when ABS is not activated. No idea if I'm right but, it might be useful to someone.

My 2 cents worth and a video.

 

[ALB123]

I am more of the slow build up kind of driver, warm up tires and work up to the braking zone. I like to use the softest tires I can and make them last. Pretty much I rarely hear the tires squeal. - Not saying this is the fastest way to drive, I am never close to the hot laps people get .. and it is obvious when there is a person with real skills on track as I never get close.

High-Five to my brotha' from anotha' motha' who is never near the top of the leader boards. I'm with you my man. Right there in the sweet spot of "average". 👍

Recently I found out that the scale in which ABS & TC is what I would consider backwards, so the higher the number the less intervention. So with say 8 settings for ABS, 1 is strongest, 8 is almost off. I run the highest number possible until I get a lockup. While I doubt that a strong ABS setting will exaggerate this "missed shift problem" it could have some bearing on it. Although I have yet to have this issue.

Yes. 100% correct. I try to state that often since there are always new Assetto Corsa players joining our ranks and that is extremely important to know. Most street cars only have 1 level, but the higher end modern sports cars often have 2 or more. Race cars, however, usually have several...as you pointed out, often 8 or 12!

It's the opposite of Gran Turismo where ABS=1 was what most people ran...the least amount of ABS intervention. In Assetto Corsa ABS=1 or TC=1 means the most amount of intervention.

👍

Jeez, I can prescribe you a neck brace to keep your ego from breaking your head off.

Well, since you have the doctor's prescription pad...would you mind writing me a couple of scripts for... Lactulose! I want to really party this weekend.

 

[TheFlash05]

TheFlash05, this is ABS triggering it and I certainly aint mashing down the gears.

Yes AC's ABS is probably most of the issue, so where possible run a higher setting and see if the issue gets better. I went back and looked at old vids id made and before I worked out the ABS numbering system, and downshifts on ABS 1 are harder than say setting 8 due to the level of intervention. ABS stops the brakes from locking, so when ABS is triggered it won't want you downshifting, as taking a lower gear to soon can & will lock the driving wheels, exactly what ABS is trying to prevent in the first place.

What I'm seeing is people try to race/ drive in this like they have done in GT titles past. It was common practice in GT to say approach a 2nd gear corner, Guys (& Girls) would smash down the gears while hard on the brakes, all the way down to first gear to try stop the car, up shift back to second on turn in and carry on. ABS & DSP in AC just wont let you do it. That's why people miss corners and go off, they expect to be able to downshift so hard n fast to compensate for a missed braking point and get away with it. Once you kick that habit you may also find this issue goes away or at least improves.

 

[WarriusZero]

If ABS is indeed involved in this downshift issue, could it be more a problem on console because the console versions don't have that 'gamma curve' that I've not looked into yet?
Which way would a PC user have to slide the setting to make it behave like a console?

I have both PS4 and PC so I guess I could do a bit of testing...

 

[TT92]

It does not matter to me what caused it but, I know that 77kph and under 4K rpm I couldn't shift to second when I can do easily when ABS is not activated. No idea if I'm right but, it might be useful to someone.

Can you reproduce this? Can you get it to happen at will? If so what car, settings and track? I am sure others will want to try this as well.

 

[Lion-Face]

At 1:50 I have goofed the corner and start to slide/ abs is active IMO and I can't get second even though I am below 5k and even 4K rpm.

I was trying and couldn't get it to downshift, tried several times. Once I turned to the right and was completely off the brakes and back on the gas it finally downshift....not when I wanted to either.

I'm just going based on the video you posted. The only other time you change to 2nd you are just above 4k rpm and off the accelerator at the start of the video. The second time you try to shift to 2nd gear you are (guessing because the rpm is obscured) at 4.5k rpm and are on the accelerator. The DSP prevents you from shifting down. When you do eventually shift down, notice you are straight in the redline of the 2nd gear. The other gears don't jump to redline even when shifting down from 5k rpm because the gear ratio is different. It appears to be behaving as Flash has stated (quoted below), and appears normal.

Can you provide a video showing the HUD so it doesn't get obscured by the wheel/hands in cockpit? Because to me it appears to be behaving normally and I can't say I have had any issues with DSP in my short time with the game.

DSP kicks in when a downshift is not possible due to the cars current rev range. Keep in mind each gear ratio can also be different. So the shift point can vary for each gear. I.e The Lamborghini Huracan GT3, the ratio from 4th to 5th is wider than 3rd - 4th or 5th - 6th. so you cant downshift at the same point otherwise you'll just bounce of the limiter (DSP kicks in anyway)

 

[azidahaka]

The problem exists and is really well spread. I'm losing hope it'll get fixed soon with so many thinking it is dsp...

I actually surrendered getting to post feedback and proofs since negationist are way more vocal about the matter than those experiencing it. Also its not a reproducible bug... I had it every second ds on the gt4 porsche when the dlc was just out. Tried it yesterday had it only twice in 5 online races.

Hope the guys at kunos will get around it themselves since I never had it before last couple updates.

 

[35mm]

I actually surrendered getting to post feedback and proofs since negationist are way more vocal about the matter than those experiencing it. Also its not a reproducible bug... I had it every second ds on the gt4 porsche when the dlc was just out. Tried it yesterday had it only twice in 5 online races.

The simple solution is to post videos like the one @BrandonW77 posted - where it clearly shows the bottom-right corner of the TV (with the Speed, RPM and ABS notification showing), while also showing one's left hand/paddle. With sound.

It's easier said than done, of course, but just keeping a video going in those conditions and then selecting the relevant parts is the only way to go.

 

[hobbsy]

I'm hoping to go back to Brands Hatch (Indy) tonight with the Caymen GT4, to see if I can reproduce the problem I originally had, hopefully the snow will hold off too!

If I find I can reproduce the issue, i'll make some vid's to support what I experienced. Its not something easy to capture, but i'll give it a go.
Of course we have to consider that the last patch, may have change things again!

@BrandonW77 I'm assuming you have the Porsche packs? if I have some success I'll share with you try to and cross over the test to PC. @WarriusZero as you've also offered, I'll share with you too if you're OK with that? You also have the benefit of being able to run testing in both PS4 and PC. Cheers guys 👍

To be clear, i'm trying to reproduce the downshift prevention related to ABS, Not DSP itself. If I can prove it on the GT4 and understand what the cause is, other cars can be looked at.

 

[BrandonW77]

@BrandonW77 I'm assuming you have the Porsche packs? if I have some success I'll share with you try to and cross over the test to PC. @WarriusZero as you've also offered, I'll share with you too if you're OK with that? You also have the benefit of being able to run testing in both PS4 and PC. Cheers guys 👍

I haz all of them! And yes, Warrius have the benefit of testing both versions back to back so he's the one that can give us some solid answers if he's willing to test them. 👍

 

[Fredzy]

I took this video a few nights ago but just got around to uploading it here. I was doing whatever I could to force some DSP. Unfortunately in SD, but it's still possible to see the revs on the tach.

DSP was definitely legit in 5>4 and 4>3 shifts but a little less obvious for 3>2. I think if you're pretty close to the right RPM but still a little too high and DSP prevents, the second attempt is gonna feel way too late.

I'm still certain there is a bug with this though, because I can recall many times (not necessarily with this car) where it denied at least 2 shift requests before giving on the third, and they were not messy panicked downshifts by any means. For sure at least the second shift should have taken, if not the first.

Going into Dunlop at Nurburgring, Ferrari 488. Deliberately went in too hot causing ABS and understeer. I began downshifting early to trigger downshift protection, pressing paddles aggressively to make it clear when I was physically shifting gears. DSP prevented shifting into 4th, 3rd and 2nd. This DSP intervention appeared to be legitimate until trying to get into 2nd gear, where it appeared to force the revs much lower than necessary before allowing gear change. This seems most likely to happen when grip is compromised and/or ABS is active.

 

[Orayani]

Yes AC's ABS is probably most of the issue, so where possible run a higher setting and see if the issue gets better. I went back and looked at old vids id made and before I worked out the ABS numbering system, and downshifts on ABS 1 are harder than say setting 8 due to the level of intervention. ABS stops the brakes from locking, so when ABS is triggered it won't want you downshifting, as taking a lower gear to soon can & will lock the driving wheels, exactly what ABS is trying to prevent in the first place.

What I'm seeing is people try to race/ drive in this like they have done in GT titles past. It was common practice in GT to say approach a 2nd gear corner, Guys (& Girls) would smash down the gears while hard on the brakes, all the way down to first gear to try stop the car, up shift back to second on turn in and carry on. ABS & DSP in AC just wont let you do it. That's why people miss corners and go off, they expect to be able to downshift so hard n fast to compensate for a missed braking point and get away with it. Once you kick that habit you may also find this issue goes away or at least improves.

Sadly I also encountered at high speed braking in the Escorts at Zandvoort since they have no ABS and also had several missed downshifts. So I can only assume it has to do with 100% braking?

 

[WarriusZero]

I'm willing to do a bit of testing but incidentally, I don't think I'm experiencing it quite as much as some others.