Driverless Audi RS 7 at racing speeds at Hockenheim

[SlipZtrEm]

@RC45 - It's becoming readily apparent that you're not actually reading any of the posts you're quoting. Please educate yourself on traffic flow and the Convoy Effect, and tell me how humans are better equipped to deal with it than autonomous cars.

 

[Azuremen]

So I will put you in the 'automated vehicles are only plausible if all human control is eliminated' column.

No, you can easily have both on the road at once. Pretty straight forward for an automated car to realize an adjacent car is not automated or in automated mode.

All the automated technology in the world is for naught if the very human element some people are trying to engineer out of the equation is still in the equation.

Pretty easy to account for human variables based on observation. Pretty sure a computer can account for subtle lane control issues from an erratic driver than most humans, especially those that barely are attentive at all.

And there is no obvious use for automated civilian single driver cars - it is a solution that has yet to find a problem. Swarms of single use civilian cars that autopilot to work and fill parking garages is about as far from practical and intelligent use of any automated technology as 1 can get. Especially if these automated cars are stuck in traffic jams. What a technological fuster cluck that would be LOL.

The problem is the countless people who don't enjoy/want/care to drive. These are the very people that cause absurd accidents, such as the mother with kids example mentioned above.

And as suggested, having automated cars communicate to optimize traffic flow certainly beats average drivers, and makes a mockery of overly aggressive ragey drivers the news loves to talk about.

This is the domain of public transportation.

How much time have you spent on public transit? Just curious since you seem to think it is an amazing alternative to driving.

 

[Harry6784]

Car theft would become much different, instead of having to hotwire a car all you would have to do is hack into it and tell it to come to you

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Car theft would become much different, instead of having to hotwire a car all you would have to do is hack into it and tell it to come to you

Admittedly, that's one of the biggest hurdles I can see with regards to autonomous cars; hacking. Especially if cars would be communicating with one another instead of only responding to their surroundings.

 

[RC45]

I'll be happy to debate the definitions of police officers with you in a relevant thread. Let's focus on your assertion that self-driving cars are a "solution looking for a problem" because you're honestly the very first person I have seen who believes this.

Then you don't get out much.

@RC45 - It's becoming readily apparent that you're not actually reading any of the posts you're quoting. Please educate yourself on traffic flow and the Convoy Effect, and tell me how humans are better equipped to deal with it than autonomous cars.

I am well educated on far more subjects than you would ever know or that I even care to share with you and have no doubt I am far more well read than you - I have never stated that humans are any better than any automated system ever - I have simply made the correct and educated observation that in no way shape or form is automated civilian general automotive transportation viable or achievable.

Civilian privately owned vehicles could never be maintained to extreme high standards that fully automated systems would need to be to be generally safe and reliable.

This is all pie in the sky clap trap - the technology and compute power may exist to create the logic and AI systems needed to accomplish automated cars - but the cost and requirements to make it safely implemented would prohibit it.

This is the reality.

You never wondered why in 2014 we still don't have 'private flying cars' or helicopters in everyone's driveways? I mean its over 100 years since the Wright Brothers adventures in Kitty Hawk NC. By now everyone should have their own private plane - the reality is we could - technology and materials exist to achieve the goal. It just could not be implemented at the level of safety required within a reasonable cost and with the level of training needed.

Similar barriers exist that would prevent the full scale general adoption of automated vehicles everywhere. You see car companies having to recall millions of non-automated vehicles all the time - now imagine these failures in automated vehicles.

This is the reality.

No obvious use? How about allowing a person not legally allowed to drive through a handicap to go somewhere.

Tell this guy he too handicapped to drive. Systems assisting humans to drive are one thing - but then stating the same systems should have total control is another thing totally

You show such little knowledge of technology. If the entire road was filled with automated cars, they would continuously process & recognize each other to get into a flow.
Besides, even if it were a cluster, like this is any better of a situation. People full of emotions allowing for potential, unnecessary situations where as computers show no emotion & don't get upset if someone needs to cut in front.

I know a lot about many technologies - but thanks for caring And in this scenario you seem to think machines are infallible. How would your model system react to a network failure or a virus or simple sensor failure? Or God forbid, bad design and software bugs? I don't believe all the humans could fail at once - but it is a real possibility that computers can and do fail at once.

Here is a simple question - why is the entire global air traffic control system and all commercial flights not fully automated? If any system begs to be automated 'because the computers are better than humans' this system is it.

*all ears*

 

[TenEightyOne]

I know a lot about many technologies - but thanks for caring And in this scenario you seem to think machines are infallible. How would your model system react to a network failure or a virus or simple sensor failure? Or God forbid, bad design and software bugs? I don't believe all the humans could fail at once - but it is a real possibility that computers can and do fail at once.

Here is a simple question - why is the entire global air traffic control system and all commercial flights not fully automated? If any system begs to be automated 'because the computers are better than humans' this system is it.

*all ears*

I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. There are plenty of autonomous transport systems/devices controlled from central data sources that can also react in "safe" mode to a loss of central control. That's tried/tested technology with a much lower failure rate than a human driver's heart.

Why isn't the global ATS fully automated? It is insofar as the protocols are worldwide and any modern airliner could autonomously fly from A to B without the input of a human pilot or controller even now. The reason it isn't implemented that way is passenger nervousness, the difficulty in feeding enough real-world information (ground traffic on aprons, for example) for full end-to-end control

99% of flying those jets is still fully automated; as you point out computers are much better than humans at it. There's no reason to suppose that wouldn't be true of cars - from a programming point of view it clearly would.

 

[Bo]

Although everyone thinks this is doom and gloom and the death of motoring, I don't think it is. I see it as an extension of automatics almost; an option you can have installed. I think there will always be the option of driving a vehicle for yourself.

 

[Azuremen]

I am well educated on far more subjects than you would ever know or that I even care to share with you and have no doubt I am far more well read than you - I have never stated that humans are any better than any automated system ever - I have simply made the correct and educated observation that in no way shape or form is automated civilian general automotive transportation viable or achievable.

The hyperbole is strong with this one...

 

[RewindTape]

So many ongoing monologs...

Interesting technology. I personally dislike the looks of the RS 7 (Especially the rear ), but I think this is incredible. Great job, Audi.

Also, they didn't program it to perform donuts? Oh wait. Quattro. Forgot.

Not a fan of the elongated look either. It's not as bad as the Panamera (few cars are), but I'm just not really a fan of the car size/class I suppose.

PS.


Man, I love the classic 2,3 straight 5 sound!

 

[2clicks]

In the sense of general commuting, I commend Audi for what they are doing. It would be absurd however, to think that autonomous vehicles could be used for motorsport. Humans will never seek to automate recreational activities, only chores, and racing is not a chore.

Admittedly, that's one of the biggest hurdles I can see with regards to autonomous cars; hacking. Especially if cars would be communicating with one another instead of only responding to their surroundings.

I could see some sort of subscriber identity module being implemented if this was the case, which means that the real issue lies with governmental surveillance.

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

Autonomous vehicles will not be used in motorsport I don't think. If they take over as the majority of passenger cars on the road then motorsport will become a hobby/recreation in the same way that horse riding/racing has as well.
You don't see horse racing with no jockey.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I am well educated on far more subjects than you would ever know or that I even care to share with you and have no doubt I am far more well read than you - I have never stated that humans are any better than any automated system ever - I have simply made the correct and educated observation that in no way shape or form is automated civilian general automotive transportation viable or achievable.

Humble. You forgot humble.

Continuing jamming your fingers in your ears then. If repeating yourself helps you feel better, by all means, go on.

 

[2clicks]

I just wanted to bring this up: If this does become the future of commuting, and all a motorist has to do is set the itinerary, and the average speed from most likely inside the vehicle for every journey, then doesn't having some sort of manual control over the vehicle technically amount to driving it?

 

[Bopop4]

I just wanted to bring this up: If this does become the future of commuting, and all a motorist has to do is set the itinerary, and the average speed from most likely inside the vehicle for every journey, then doesn't having some sort of manual control over the vehicle technically amount to driving it?

No, you're not driving it, you're programming it.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Audi to put this tech in the next A8.

Audi has announced the next generation A8 will be available as a fully autonomous vehicle.

Back in January we heard a rumor about the next Audi A8 getting an autonomous driving system and that rumor has now been confirmed by Audi's Head of Product and Technology Communications. Talking to Motoring, Stefan Moser said Audi has plans to introduce the world's first self-driving car with a system that will "always be better than human beings" since it won't be "phoning, not looking at pretty girls, no distractions."

 

[RewindTape]

Audi to put this tech in the next A8.

Back in January we heard a rumor about the next Audi A8 getting an autonomous driving system and that rumor has now been confirmed by Audi's Head of Product and Technology Communications. Talking to Motoring, Stefan Moser said Audi has plans to introduce the world's first self-driving car with a system that will "always be better than human beings" since it won't be "phoning, not looking at pretty girls, no distractions."

Do you have the link?

 

[MatskiMonk]

Do you have the link?

I quoted that from WCF, but this was the source http://www.motoring.com.au/news/201...next-gen-audi-a8-drives-better-than-you-46963

All-new Audi flagship's autonomous driving system to function "better than human beings"
The next-generation Audi A8 luxury limousine will set a new standard in safety for the German brand.

Due in 2017 the A8 will be Audi's autonomous motoring pioneer. And according to one Audi executive, it will drive better than most human beings.

Stefan Moser, Audi Head of Product and Technology Communications, said the upcoming A8 will be a fully autonomous, self-driving vehicle that doesn't get distracted, unlike human drivers.

"If we have a proper system it will always be better than human beings," he said. "They are not phoning, not looking at pretty girls, no distractions."

Moser said Audi "wants to be first" to market with a self-driving car, noting that its autonomous car technology already works well, and it was just a matter of waiting for the legislation to catch up with the technology.

In Germany, for instance, cars are legally only allowed to drive themselves for short periods of time, around 10 seconds, and that's why most active lane-departure systems cut out after a short period. But that's set to change, in step with some US states.

Audi made history last week when an empty RS 7 sports car lapped the Hockenheim race trackat full tilt, as the company ratcheted up its autonomous car program. But that was on a perfectly sunny day, on a racetrack, with no other traffic or pedestrians around. Will autonomous cars work in all weather conditions? Moser said a combination of cameras, radars and lasers will be its 'eyes', working in all conditions.

"The camera system is not able to always do everything. We have also lasers, we will have more sensors too. With a laser you can see in fog, for instance," he said.

"It must work everywhere," he stated.

The Audi executive said the new A8's exterior design will be previewed this year by the A9 concept car /news/2014/prestige-and-luxury/all-new-audi-a9-leaked-46806 at the 2014 Los Angeles motor show in mid-November. The final production version of the A8 will then be shown in 2016 ahead of its global release in 2017 he said.

We previously reported it would be expensive technology for motorists to own, but Moser explained it would be "not too much higher in price for the autonomous [A8 cars]".

And will the autonomous A8 be offered in Australia, to be seen cruising around affluent areas of Oz? If the legislation allows it, most definitely.

"We build cars for around the world," said the Audi technology chief, noting that in future the software and probably the hardware would be standardised, reducing the cost, and car-to-car communication would further improve the effectiveness of self-driving cars.

"In the beginning it's not easy to find a solution for many manufacturers. Everybody wants to be first. But eventually you have to talk together."

In theory autonomous cars will reduce crashes, traffic congestion and CO2 emissions, but one of the biggest fears shared by many motorists is what happens when the systems malfunction.

Moser says Audi's setup has redundancy systems, a second control unit, in case the primary system dies, and noted that the error rate with the technology so far was "zero". Currently no computer systems in existence have a true zero error rate.

Indeed, the advent of autonomous cars will cause a headache not only for legislators but also insurance companies, particularly if/when they become involved in collisions.

"At the end of the day yes of course, it will be bad publicity when they crash, but we have to make them as good as we can," said Moser, who said the technology would change the automotive landscape forever and concurred that Volvo's goal of building fatality-free cars by 2020 was achievable.

 

[McLaren]

For someone so above the rest of us intellectually to the point he knows for a fact this technology will never make it, Audi sure did put him out to pasture.

 

[AudiMan2011]

Realistically, I think that some of the autonomous driving technology from that RS7 concept will make it to the next A8 in some form similar to Tesla's AutoPilot system, but I doubt it'll be available as a fully autonomous car when it releases.

 

[Exorcet]

Realistically, I think that some of the autonomous driving technology from that RS7 concept will make it to the next A8 in some form similar to Tesla's AutoPilot system, but I doubt it'll be available as a fully autonomous car when it releases.

That's a reasonable stance. Forever is a long time though. Claiming that autonomous cars will never happen is ridiculous.

 

[RC45]

Humble. You forgot humble.
Continuing jamming your fingers in your ears then. If repeating yourself helps you feel better, by all means, go on.

Actually if I wasn't so conceited I would be perfect. Humble has never entered into my mind - ever. I make no apologies for my superior intellect, I merely tolerate the rest of you - and barely at that.

For someone so above the rest of us intellectually to the point he knows for a fact this technology will never make it, Audi sure did put him out to pasture.

In Germany, for instance, cars are legally only allowed to drive themselves for short periods of time, around 10 seconds, and that's why most active lane-departure systems cut out after a short period. But that's set to change, in step with some US states.

Which is what I said - legislation will drive acceptance, not technology.

In theory autonomous cars will reduce crashes, traffic congestion and CO2 emissions, but one of the biggest fears shared by many motorists is what happens when the systems malfunction.
Moser says Audi's setup has redundancy systems, a second control unit, in case the primary system dies, and noted that the error rate with the technology so far was "zero". Currently no computer systems in existence have a true zero error rate.

Which is again what I said.

So, again I am correct in my assessment.

Audi as a company would not survive the ambulance chasing lawsuits after their autonomous cars start killing people.

Remember what happened when the Audi 100 had its 'unintended acceleration' issues in the 20th century? The damage done to its image and bottom line almost killed off the company.

 

[Harry6784]

I would love to see an automated racing league. Teams would be given identical cars and told to program an AI that would 'learn' a track on it's own while having to deal with other drivers, weather, changing track conditions, tire dynamics and breakdowns. Would be very entertaining to watch 👍

 

[daan]

Actually if I wasn't so conceited I would be perfect. Humble has never entered into my mind - ever. I make no apologies for my superior intellect, I merely tolerate the rest of you - and barely at that.

• You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate.

 

[Pupik]

I'm so advanced that I can whiff the odor of precious metals.

No wait, that's @RC45's ****.

 

[Dennisch]

Is this the moment where we all point fingers and laugh our asses off?

 

[Bopop4]

Is this the moment where we all point fingers and laugh our asses off?

Yes.

 

[RC45]

Actually if I wasn't so conceited I would be perfect. Humble has never entered into my mind - ever. I make no apologies for my superior intellect, I merely tolerate the rest of you - and barely at that.

• You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate.

How about you show where I have ever posted any material that is false, misleading or inaccurate - instead of just standing behind that Moderator shield throwing stones with a poor attempt at humour.

Perhaps I should refer you to the following clause in the AUP if you where not going for humour..

• You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack any individual or any group.

Seems to me you are using your position as moderator to threaten and/or harass and attack me.

Does it bother you that much when a stranger on an Internet Forum factually and accurately demonstrates a contrary position to yours that you have to resort to pulling the Moderator lever?

 

[Bopop4]

 

[Lizard]

where not going for humour.

Clearly not so perfect then. You made a mistake.

Does this mean the world is going to end?

 

[McLaren]

Which is what I said - legislation will drive acceptance, not technology.



Which is again what I said.

So, again I am correct in my assessment.

You came in here wanting to make sure we all knew through silly examples that this technology can not, will not work, & is pointless to even attempt, that it has no place in society because the cars will kill people left & right. Your proof was even more laughable; "I R SMART3R THAN Y0U!"

And yet, here's Audi ready to start slowly introducing the technology to the public. The days of streets filled with these cars are far away, but it has to start somewhere & clearly, Audi is it.

Audi as a company would not survive the ambulance chasing lawsuits after their autonomous cars start killing people.

Give it a rest, you tit. You have yet to even prove this will happen beyond examples with more holes in them than a chain link fence.

Remember what happened when the Audi 100 had its 'unintended acceleration' issues in the 20th century? The damage done to its image and bottom line almost killed off the company.

Remember when all of that was highly exaggerated & blown out of proportion by the media? Naw, because you were too busy reading up next why Corvairs were dangerous.