Driving Force Pro users, please notice

[Scaff]

I agree that the wheel shaking at high speeds is realistic, but I guess it shouldn't do it as constantly as ist does. Above a certain speed, the wheel begins to move left and right, and if that effect is supposed to be realistic, it rather should move about by chance, and not as constantly as it does, don't you think? And if it's not a bug, why would it stop shaking when you turn off the rumble effect of the DS2?

... which brings me back to the original question: does turning of the rumble effect work? It'd be nice if you confine to the answer of this question, as this is what the thread intentionally was about. Sure you can discuss your opinions on this effect, asking if it's a bug or a feature and if it feels realistically or not. But this thread was meant to clarify if changing the option works for you, so I ask you to try that and give us some feedback!

Thanks! 👍
the Interceptor

I'm not sure if this post was meant for me, and I don't want to start a flame war with regard to this, but my reply was in direct response to my original post being quoted and the realism of an effect like this being in place.

As far as the effect itself and how to get rid of it is concerned, I can only trust that the wide range of suggestions already made work for the people who want it to work. You see some people may not want to get rid of it and it would seem to be a bit redundent to start a new thread on why this effect occurs and why it is realistic, when the scope of this thread need little expansion to discuss the subject.

In answer to your question of why its not a bug, you use the term 'rumble' to describe the effect, but Force Feedback would sum it up better, how else is an effect that causes a car to pull in one way or another going to be recreated in GT4? Force Feedback is the only way to do it, which also explains why turning off the FF gets rid of it and why the DS2 does not suffer the same problem.

As regards its implementation in GT4, this is from my last post.

But (and this is a big but), do not say that PD have got this wrong. The effect may not be 100% accurate, but within the limits and confines of the game and platform its a damn good piece of work.

In my opinion this is not a bug.

Now people have asked how to get rid of the problem completly and they have been answered, my posts are aimed at those who incorrectly belease this to be an unrealistic bug and those who appreciate the feature but wish to know why it occurs and how it is effected by tuning. Remember that a race spec car will have it susspension setup altered for every track, this tread addresses one of the reasons why this needs to be done.

Personally I believe that all of my posts have fallen within the scope of this thread and how it has evolved, and if I see something that I know or believe to be incorrect in a thread I will reply to that (as my first posts does).

In closing as long as my posts are with the AUP of GT Planet and within the scope of the thread I will post what I believe will be of interest. If a mod disagrees with me then I am sure they will tell me, also if another member does not agree with the accuracy of my post they are also free to reply and we can discuss the situation.

However, and I make no apology for this, I will not be told what the subject of my post should be by anyone, unless my post is in breach of the sites AUP, then feel free to use the Report button and let the mods take care of it.

 

[Arwin]

In answer to your question of why its not a bug, you use the term 'rumble' to describe the effect,

No, we don't. What we do, is think that the rumble effect data is being sent to the Driving Force Pro by accident. Rumble is created by a weight that moves from left to right in the DS2 (actually the DS2 has two of these devices, hence the D in DS2 - Dual Shock). The strength of the effect is controlled by the distance travelled left and right by the weight, and the speed at which the weight moves.

but Force Feedback would sum it up better, how else is an effect that causes a car to pull in one way or another going to be recreated in GT4? Force Feedback is the only way to do it, which also explains why turning off the FF gets rid of it and why the DS2 does not suffer the same problem.

After I switched off the Rumble for the DualShock controllers, the DFPro still has all the regular Force Feedback you would expect from g-forces, bumps, and so on.

In my opinion this is not a bug.

And in mine it is. Cars are not meant to shake like that (look at a replay, then look at real footage), and in Arcade mode it is not a problem you can fix by changing settings, even though you would expect most Le Mans to be setup so that they run decently at de la Sarthe.

However, and I make no apology for this, I will not be told what the subject of my post should be by anyone, unless my post is in breach of the sites AUP, then feel free to use the Report button and let the mods take care of it.

I for one, am not questioning you for your posting, the only disagreement we have is that you think the effect is fully intentional and realistic, and I don't. Like The Interceptor, I'd like to hear though if you notice anything by changing these settings as described.

 

[Scaff]

I for one, am not questioning you for your posting, the only disagreement we have is that you think the effect is fully intentional and realistic, and I don't. Like The Interceptor, I'd like to hear though if you notice anything by changing these settings as described.

Arwin, I am at work at the moment so have nothing at hand, I will have a play around with some settings tonight and let you know.

I must confess, I rarely find the straight line stability to be a big issue myself (and none existant with the DS2), but I will have a look at a few settings tonight and get back to you.

 

[markc123]

No, we don't. What we do, is think that the rumble effect data is being sent to the Driving Force Pro by accident. Rumble is created by a weight that moves from left to right in the DS2 (actually the DS2 has two of these devices, hence the D in DS2 - Dual Shock). The strength of the effect is controlled by the distance travelled left and right by the weight, and the speed at which the weight moves.

I though it was little motors with unbalanced weights in the end, like half a flywheel. 2 Different sizes of weight create different feed back. Hence the 2 motors and dual shock.

The left right motion of the wheel is totally OTT. On the mulsanne, its getting hard to hold on to and makes me worry about my wheel.
On the test track, steering gently left then right stopped the shaking. If it was meant to be in there it would continue shaking - I had not slowed down, just applied the slightest amount of lock.

 

[the Interceptor]

I'm not sure if this post was meant for me, and I don't want to start a flame war with regard to this, but my reply was in direct response to my original post being quoted and the realism of an effect like this being in place.

My post was also, but not only meant for you. I didn't want to start a flame war either, all I wanted is to focus on the actual issue, and to prevent discussion if it's good or bad, or meant to be there at all.

In answer to your question of why its not a bug, you use the term 'rumble' to describe the effect, but Force Feedback would sum it up better, how else is an effect that causes a car to pull in one way or another going to be recreated in GT4? Force Feedback is the only way to do it, which also explains why turning off the FF gets rid of it and why the DS2 does not suffer the same problem.

No offense, but I'm not sure if you got what I was saying, regarding this statement. The theory is that if you switch off the "rumble effect" that is meant to make the Dual Shock 2 Controller (in short DS2) rumble when the car is moving, the Driving Force Pro wheel stops showing the discussed effect of moving about at high speeds. But how can an effect that is supposed to affect the controller only change any characteristics of the wheel? In my eyes it can't, and that's why I say it must be a bug in the game. Now I'm not saying the wheel should not move at all when you're firing down the Mulsanne straight, but it should move differently than it does.

Anyway, I have heard that switching of the rumbling didn't have any effect on the DFPs movement for some PAL users. So I reactivated this thread to see if that's a general issue with the PAL, or if it's a game of chance. And again, I ask you (all) to test the different settings and post if you noticed any changes.

Cheers,
the Interceptor

 

[Scaff]

My post was also, but not only meant for you. I didn't want to start a flame war either, all I wanted is to focus on the actual issue, and to prevent discussion if it's good or bad, or meant to be there at all.
No offense, but I'm not sure if you got what I was saying, regarding this statement. The theory is that if you switch off the "rumble effect" that is meant to make the Dual Shock 2 Controller (in short DS2) rumble when the car is moving, the Driving Force Pro wheel stops showing the discussed effect of moving about at high speeds. But how can an effect that is supposed to affect the controller only change any characteristics of the wheel? In my eyes it can't, and that's why I say it must be a bug in the game. Now I'm not saying the wheel should not move at all when you're firing down the Mulsanne straight, but it should move differently than it does.

Anyway, I have heard that switching of the rumbling didn't have any effect on the DFPs movement for some PAL users. So I reactivated this thread to see if that's a general issue with the PAL, or if it's a game of chance. And again, I ask you (all) to test the different settings and post if you noticed any changes.

Cheers,
the Interceptor

Right, must apologise, got the wrong meaning on the DS2 thing, been up for a few night with sick kids and wife.

The following are all using the Nissan R92, standard apart from an oil change. Track used was the Test Course.

I tried out the DS2 thing, using the PAL version. It had no effect at all; 'rumble' on or off, DS2 pluged in or unpluged. Not a bit of difference on the PAL version.

Next had a play around with the DFP settings, the only two I found that made a difference were the Steering assist and Power steering, set either of these to OFF and the level of vibration caused by high speed was just silly. In this regard you are quite right the effect is totally unrealistic. I never played with these two settings before and mine were both ON, going to keep them that way.

So with these on I set about seeing if the tuning could effect the straight line stability of the car, and I suggest giving the following a go . Just remember that these have been set only to optimise the straight line stability of the car, on a slower speed course of a more technical nature (i.e. any other track, after all this is the Test Course) you may find problems with the initial turn in and understeer with the car.

All Front/Rear

Spring rate 11.8/12.8
Ride Height 85/85 (standard)
Damper 8/8 (bound)
Damper 10/10 (rebound)
Camber 0/0
Toe -2/-1 (you may also want to try -4/-2 but turn in is a lot harder even here)
Stabilisers 6/6 (standard)

Downforce 38/53

With the above I found the car a lot more stable on the straights, better by a smaller margin on the banked corners and under hard braking its like a different car.

I still think that if you have the DFP settings a certain way then the effect is realistic, and responds well to tuning. It will still be a comprimise between high speed cornering ability and straight line stability, but then again it should be.

However, the effect turning off the Steering assist and Power Steering has on this area is totally silly, and I suspect the route cause of a lot of problems.


Hope this helps in regard to this thread and any feedback on the above would be appreciated.

 

[Ikari_San]

I find the best settings for the DFP is to have the wheel FF set to 100%, the game options FF at "Strong", active steering "off", and power assist "on". This is in the PAL version.

It took me a lot of testing to make up my mind if power assist should be on (i really wanted it OFF initially because I wanted the purest driving experience) but now I definitely think having it ON makes for more realism. Without it it's basically like driving every car without power steering which is very difficult to crank the wheel when there is maximum resistance being applied (not impossible, just unnecessarily difficult).

Or am I just a wimp for not wanting my already-inflamed left wrist to get any more painful?

 

[gmoz22]

I don't know why so many keep comparing this game to reality. It's a damned game. If the wheel shakes too much for you to control it, adjust the force feedback and STFU

If you don't understand why people compare the game to reality, maybe you don't understand what this game is about and why it took 5 years to develop.

I don't see what you're doing here, you should go play Outrunner... it still might still be too neurone-intensive for you...

It's easy being an foolish insulting d*** on a forum, bet you'll get knocked the **** out at your local arcade...

 

[Scaff]

If you don't understand why people compare the game to reality, maybe you don't understand what this game is about and why it took 5 years to develop.

I don't see what you're doing here, you should go play Outrunner... it still might still be too neurone-intensive for you...

It's easy being an foolish insulting d*** on a forum, bet you'll get knocked the **** out at your local arcade...

gmozz22, I understand your passion on the subject, but do you not think that a well thought out and articulate reply would have had more effect than just throwing insults back?

Just a thought.

 

[colnago]

...It took me a lot of testing to make up my mind if power assist should be on (i really wanted it OFF initially because I wanted the purest driving experience) but now I definitely think having it ON makes for more realism. Without it it's basically like driving every car without power steering which is very difficult to crank the wheel when there is maximum resistance being applied (not impossible, just unnecessarily difficult)...

Let me start by saying that I agree that, in general, there is probably going to be some wheel vibration/shaking side to side at high speeds with a race car over an "unsmooth" surface at 200+ MPH. My previous posts have probably fallen by the wayside as you guys have taken this thread to a higher level.

I also agree that "Default" suspension settings are probably too stiff for Mulsanne at 200+ to be "calm". I usually soften springs and "Bound/Rebound" to cope with the bumpier surface and I notice a difference in the wheel "shake". I agree that settings can also dial some of that out. Haven't tried the "DS2 Rumble" fix yet, but I don't really want to fix what seems to me a "feature" rather than a "bug".

The thing is, Sony/Polyphony probably wanted to give the sense of the "imperfect" world of high speed racing. The only way to simulate any of the vibrations is through the wheel itself. They don't make a "seat vibrator" attachment, and probably can't put some vibration mechanism in the base as it may not be effective enough...all you're left with is "shaking the wheel".


That said, I thought that "Power Assist - ON" would make it easier to drive as well...but not closer to real life in that I'm sure it takes less effort to turn the "NON-Power Assisted DFP" than a "Power Assisted Race Car". I always run with:

FF - Strong
Power Assist - OFF
Steering Type - Simulation...(even though that setting is supposedly inactive on the DFP)

How does it play with Power assist - ON? I'll have to try it when I get home.

 

[the Interceptor]

Haven't tried the "DS2 Rumble" fix yet, but I don't really want to fix what seems to me a "feature" rather than a "bug".

Like I said, I'm perfectly okay with the wheel showing some action when you're going 200+, cause in reality it wouldn't be calm either. But neither would it start to go left and right regularly, would it? And if changing an option that has nothing to do with the DFP also changes the DFPs behaviour, how can it be a feature?

Anyway, all I ask for is to switch off the rumble effect for the controllers and to test if it makes the wheel stop shaking. Then post your results here, along with the version of GT4 you're running. This thread is not meant to discuss if you like what the wheel does, neither for judging if it's real or not.

@ Scaff: sorry for being a little sassy, and all the best to your family! 👍

Cheers,
the Interceptor

 

[Scaff]

Like I said, I'm perfectly okay with the wheel showing some action when you're going 200+, cause in reality it wouldn't be calm either. But neither would it start to go left and right regularly, would it?

Anyway, all I ask for is to switch off the rumble effect for the controllers and to test if it makes the wheel stop shaking. Then post your results here, along with the version of GT4 you're running. This thread is not meant to discuss if you like what the wheel does, neither for judging if it's real or not.

@ Scaff: sorry for being a little sassy, and all the best to your family! 👍

Cheers,
the Interceptor

No problem and I hope that my input helps.

 

[vladimir]

the ds2 fix did not remove the shaking in my PAL version either...i find that really anoying because its so strong on le mans that my arms/hands hurt after going down the straight just once and i always fear my wheel will break.

i have to set the FF to mild in order to drive the racecars at le mans...

 

[soptom]

Gave it a quick go and it didn't seem to make any difference on my UK PAL either, but I like the shakes and wouldn't want to lose them.

 

[Dave A]

'68 Camaro @ 140mph on (your track here) = modern LMP @ 220mph on the bumpy Mulsanne straight?

If there should be "no shaking", why did the CLK GTR flip 2-3 times at full chirp? Most tracks aren't parking lot smooth. I'm sure PD just wanted to give the sensation of engine, steering wheel, and wind vibration, all acting on the car at the same time...just look what happens to an F1 driver when he simply shifts gears. The only way they can simulate any of that is thru the wheel...unless some of you guys have setups that vibrate your seats.

First off, the CLK-GTR never flipped at LeMans. Neither did he CLK-LM as featured in GT4, If you look it up, you'll find it was the CLR that flipped. The reason the CLR flipped was because when it was drafting a car and went over the crest of a hill at the same time a pocket of air would get under the car and lift it off the ground. NOT because the car was shaking.

Secondly, LeMans cars, DON't shake from side to side driving at 200+mph. They're designed not to do that, to stick to the track like glue or as much as they can within regulations.

Finally, when an F1 driver shifts gears, he experiences a change in G-Force, which has nothing at all to do with what were discussing here.

 

[colnago]

First off, the CLK-GTR never flipped at LeMans. Neither did he CLK-LM as featured in GT4, If you look it up, you'll find it was the CLR that flipped. The reason the CLR flipped was because when it was drafting a car and went over the crest of a hill at the same time a pocket of air would get under the car and lift it off the ground. NOT because the car was shaking....

Yes you are right, I "fat fingered" that one. 2am maintenance windows in another state leave me less than coherent, but my mistake none the less. The CLR is not in the game...the CLK-GTR is the Le Mans based car that people can relate to from the game. My point is that aerodynamics play an important part in a cars stability. Poor design, however slight, has negative effects on a car's handling...especially at that speed. The car wasn't drafting another car when it happed the successive times.

...Secondly, LeMans cars, DON't shake from side to side driving at 200+mph. They're designed not to do that, to stick to the track like glue or as much as they can within regulations.....

I never said that a "LeMans car shakes from side-to-side", only that it's probably the only way a "video game" programmer can manipulate the "only device" connected the PS2 to simulate vibration at high speed over a bumpy track. I do believe that it would be desireable to have a fair amount of downforce on an LMP car...unless you aren't on pace with the leaders.

...Finally, when an F1 driver shifts gears, he experiences a change in G-Force, which has nothing at all to do with what were discussing here.....

I thought we were talking about "the shaking of the DFP at high speeds"...whether or not it's a "bug" or "feature". I used the movement of an F1 driver during shifts because of the physics involved and what the body experiences while racing. Again, my point is that there is a lot going on while in the cockpit of a race car at high speeds and all we have is this steering wheel device. It's pretty limited as far as what it can do to simulate "The Drive of Your Life".

Unless we have someone on board from Logitech or Polyphony, we can only speculate "WHAT" the shaking is caused by. Could it be "crosswinds" on the back stretch that the developers were aiming at? Could it be a signal that your suspension is too stiff? Who knows? I was merely trying to give a different point of view and offer other aspects as to why the wheel was shaking.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

To bring this back up:

For how many of you has Werner's hint (switching off the rumble effect for the DS2 controllers to prevent the DFP from shaking at high speeds) actually worked? Cause there's a rumour it doesn't work for all versions of GT4. It'd be nice, even if you want to keep your shaking wheel, if you can give this a try and post your results here.

Thanks! 👍
the Interceptor

It worked fine for me, and with proper settings - ie higher rideheight, softer suspension, and 900* DFP and lower downforce - there is not much shaking at all. It does shake, but compared to what it was like before the dualshock trick, it is nothing to mension anymore.

 

[the Interceptor]

It worked fine for me, and with proper settings - ie higher rideheight, softer suspension, and 900* DFP and lower downforce - there is not much shaking at all. It does shake, but compared to what it was like before the dualshock trick, it is nothing to mension anymore.

Thank you! 👍

I see you're Swedish, so you're running the PAL I guess? And which other settings did you alter?

Cheers,
the Interceptor

 

[colnago]

It worked fine for me, and with proper settings - ie higher rideheight, softer suspension, and 900* DFP and lower downforce - there is not much shaking at all. It does shake, but compared to what it was like before the dualshock trick, it is nothing to mension anymore.

Wow, Suspension 101...I softened my suspension on a bumpy track and now my car is more compliant. Can we end this thread now?

 

[Ikari_San]

Let me start by saying that I agree that, in general, there is probably going to be some wheel vibration/shaking side to side at high speeds with a race car over an "unsmooth" surface at 200+ MPH. My previous posts have probably fallen by the wayside as you guys have taken this thread to a higher level.

I also agree that "Default" suspension settings are probably too stiff for Mulsanne at 200+ to be "calm". I usually soften springs and "Bound/Rebound" to cope with the bumpier surface and I notice a difference in the wheel "shake". I agree that settings can also dial some of that out. Haven't tried the "DS2 Rumble" fix yet, but I don't really want to fix what seems to me a "feature" rather than a "bug".

The thing is, Sony/Polyphony probably wanted to give the sense of the "imperfect" world of high speed racing. The only way to simulate any of the vibrations is through the wheel itself. They don't make a "seat vibrator" attachment, and probably can't put some vibration mechanism in the base as it may not be effective enough...all you're left with is "shaking the wheel".


That said, I thought that "Power Assist - ON" would make it easier to drive as well...but not closer to real life in that I'm sure it takes less effort to turn the "NON-Power Assisted DFP" than a "Power Assisted Race Car". I always run with:

FF - Strong
Power Assist - OFF
Steering Type - Simulation...(even though that setting is supposedly inactive on the DFP)

How does it play with Power assist - ON? I'll have to try it when I get home.

With power assist on, it backs off the resistance when you want to turn the wheel quickly (see the scrolling banner in the options menu). It doesn't effect the FF levels, at least I don't think so....maybe the FF is just a TOUCH lighter with power assist on? What do you think?

I see you're Swedish, so you're running the PAL I guess? And which other settings did you alter?

Just a note on the PAL version, it was noted that they improved the "sense of speed" to be more accurate for the PAL version, not sure if it has any bearing on the DFP though..

blah blah blah wah wah wah the DFP shakes too much its UNREALISTIC this sucks etc. etc.

About this whole wheel shaking thing, it all depends on the circumstances, there are too many things which may have an effect on the wheel shaking to say whether it is really like that in reality. To tell if it's a real effect or not you would have to look at everything like suspension, chassis, tyres, wind resistance, steering setup, road surface etc. There are lots of reasons why the wheel may or may not shake at high speeds.

For example, I had a small blister on one of my tyres which made the steering wheel shake like crazy at speeds between 60km/h and 80km/hr, but not at any other speeds. Basically, there are hundreds of factors that could make the wheel shake at certain times. Off the top of my head, a Le Mans car for example probably doesnt have 900 degrees of rotation, so there's an inaccuracy in comparing them there. I'm sure you could think of some more reasons why the effect is real or not....who the hell cares anyway, the game is just plain fun!

 

[jimihemmy]

First off, the CLK-GTR never flipped at LeMans. Neither did he CLK-LM as featured in GT4, If you look it up, you'll find it was the CLR that flipped. The reason the CLR flipped was because when it was drafting a car and went over the crest of a hill at the same time a pocket of air would get under the car and lift it off the ground. NOT because the car was shaking.

The CLR did not flip because of a air draft pocket....it flipped because the aerodynamics of the car could not handle the airflow around the car at that spot on the track at above certain speeds....

 

[ViXeN]

hmmm, I'm awakening a sleeping beast here, but hey...

First, I read an article about that Merc that flipped, it flipped because of a pocket of air according to the writer, the air suddenly flowed under the car (not good in a race car) and up went the nose.

Second, the DFP should NOT shake like it does at high speed... I drove a Mazda MX6 Race car that had the 4 Rotor 2.6l engine in it to a speed of 350km/h down the main straight @ kyalami here in South Africa, and it was as stable as my road car @ 60km/h.... I race in real life and I have never experienced this shake... The F1 cars, watch the wheel when they have the in car view, you don't see them shaking left right left right and so on... it's smooth and straight...

P.S., My 787B and Minolta both shake on the test tracks straights... and that's a smoooth track right??? BANG goes the bumpy track theory!

 

[amar212]

Shaking of DFP is just a very basic method to provide a greater sense of speed in hard-tuned cars.

Although it is far from perfect - and it is very far from reality - it makes a pretty decent job in convincig the player about the forces that are on the work in high speeds. Since there is no other way to amplify the sensation of 300+ km/h on Moulsane or Nurb, shaking is a prety decent way to do it when take everything in concern.

Have thought some time about it and I find shaking - no matter how annoying it can be, especially on IA-16 - a very nifty feature that brings GT "feeling" to another level. Just driving without it is not the same and it feels wrong.

DFP shaking is very much subjective issue - while some like it, some may not, regarding the realism. But, as far as no big-time-hydraulic-simulators will become commercialy available, I'll take shaking as the far-best-that-150$-can-buy.

Presonally, I miss the rev-shake and screen-blurring in highest speeds, as introduced in GT Prologue game. It was a great way to show that aerodynamics and engine have reached its maxxximum, and it was adding a lot in speed-sensation, no metter of being unrealistic in terms of "Realism-Whoring".

 

[ViXeN]

Presonally, I miss the rev-shake and screen-blurring in highest speeds, as introduced in GT Prologue game. It was a great way to show that aerodynamics and engine have reached its maxxximum, and it was adding a lot in speed-sensation, no metter of being unrealistic in terms of "Realism-Whoring".

Now that would be realism!!! Not this side to side shaking that possibly only happens on a F1 Speed Boat chopping on a rough lake!!!

 

[christofire]

Vixen: Side-to-side shake does happen on some vehicles - look up a "tankslapper" on a motorcycle. There are also many more instances where a similar incident can happen, but much less pronounced.

As for the wheel-shake, to me it looks like a product of you hit the first bump, the wheel turns, your hands try to damp this movement. At the same time, the game is trying to simulate the weight shift (notice the G meter moving all over). The product of all this seems to be that it induces a resonance.

As you progress down the straight there's some larger bumps mixed in with the smaller bumps. I personally think it's a slight bug, but one which does give the impression of speed so it was turned into a feature.

I can't say if it's realistic or not as I've not driven a RL Le Mans car down that road.

 

[Rapidone]

Ok, i have a few comment's id like to make.

The side to side forces on the wheel are way to high to be fun; on the Sarthe straights, my hands get tired after only one lap, and that is with the forces set low.

I find pulling the power cord out of the wheel is the best solution to the problem. I've also find gripping the wheel hard (very hard) and jamming my knees under the wheel helps and works farily well, but that's not very realistic.

As to the reality of the shaking forces, did any of you see the '5th Gear' report by Tiff Needell on GT4 from the GT4 Launch Party in the U.K.? He had a race against the GT4 game developer and reported on the Sarthe track, which he has driven in his raceing carreer. He drove a car (Toyota supra race car, i think, im not sure what it was), and was obviously not very impressed with the realism of the shaking involved in the game.

 

[Ikari_San]

Hang on, if the wheel shakes when youre going on a perfectly flat surface like the test course that's extremely unrealistic.

I'm not sure if it does though, will have to check...

What they should've done though is put more wheel shake when powering out of corners in these high powered cars. On F1's and champ cars the wheel goes crazy during corners!

I have noticed front wheel drives in the game cause the wheel to shake when powering out of corners which is quite nice.

 

[ViXeN]

The wheel shakes on any track going above 320 km/h for me... smooth, rough, bumpy it doesn't matter... It's unrealistic!!! and I know this because I have taken a full modified race car to 350km/h (that's above 200mp/h) and it was smoother than a baby's bottom!!!

christofire, I know what a tankslapper is, I've had three bikes in my life time and more tankslapper than I care to try and remember... But side to side shake on a racing car... NO!!! not realistic...

Ikari_San F1 cars are THE most sensitive cars in the world to drive!!! Mic Dewan (<- not sure of spelling) and Yuah Kankinen (<- not sure of spelling), Motorcycle world champ and rally world champ, couldn't even complete 1 yes 1 lap in Jacques Vilenuve's (<-spelling again) F1 car... Mic got through 3 corners and Yuah got through 4 before they both spun out!!! So when you see an F1 wheel shaking on corners that's not actually shaking, it's the driver making corrections to the steering to avoide spinning...

The reason I'm so adament about this subject is because I've been at those speeds in real life and I know from experience that it is not realistic!!!

 

[christofire]

Ok - I'll bow to your superior knowledge on this one Vixen, and I do in part agree with you.

FYI: Mick Doohan, but I've no idea about the rally driver. Also, Rossi has been testing for Ferrari and was less than 10 seconds behind schumacher on the test track, so it works both ways.

I brought tankslappers up because you started going off talking about boats as if side-to-side shake can never happen (BTW, a proper tankslapper is the bars going lock to lock, literally slapping your hands on the tank - I've had it once in 9 years of riding and I've no idea how I stayed on, you must be a riding god and very unlucky)

In the video "Nurburgring vs GT4" in the videos section the chap driving has a regular side-to-side shake in some parts, but as the straights where it happens aren't as long it's not as obvious.

As I said, I think the oscillation is a product of the game signalling a bump to the FF, the FF turning the wheel, the player trying to damp that turning, then the game signalling a weight-shift to the FF. It all conspires to make the shake. The thing that makes me think this is that it gradually comes on as the speed goes up. I'd like to know what would happen if you can go faster - does it calm down again, or just get worse?

If it all calms down it could just be the system (as in the interactions between game, wheel, FF, player) or if it doesn't it might be a problem with the FF algorithms - i.e. it works for low speed but not for high speed.

 

[FooAtari]

FYI: Mick Doohan, but I've no idea about the rally driver. Also, Rossi has been testing for Ferrari and was less than 10 seconds behind schumacher on the test track, so it works both ways.

It was less than three seconds... He is also rumored in Italy to have signed with Ferrari for '07. Nothig more official than that tho.

And to imply that a motorbike racer cant drive an F1 car is ridiculous. They might need a few laps to get used to it and spin exploring the limits, but they understand racing lines and braking and would soon turn in quick times, racing a bike is so much more demanding than racing a car, if anything its a slight backward step for a racer. Requires more balls to, when you crash a bike you hit the tarmac, in a car your not really going anywhere these days as you are enclosed and strapped tightly in.

Colin McRae also tested a Jordan a few years ago - 1996 I think. And was also turning in very competative lap times very quickly. If you are fast you are fast...

F1 at the moment due to driving aids like traction control and power steering is "relatively"(sp) easy compared to previous years. It still demands a lot of skill, but the car also helps the driver drive the car. The same cannot be said for MotoGP and Rallying not to the same level anyway. But hopefully plans to ban all aids on 2008 in F1 will go ahead.