Drugs

[hogger129]

It doesn't matter to me if someone uses drugs, but the truthful information about what these drugs do should be out there and easily accessible to people.

 

[Azuremen]

It doesn't matter to me if someone uses drugs, but the truthful information about what these drugs do should be out there and easily accessible to people.

The government tends to be the worst to bank on for that as well. LSD and Marijuana are both Schedule 1 in the US, which means...

Schedule I substances are those that have the following findings:
The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse.
The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.
There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision.

Neither have addiction issues, LSD is extremely hard to abuse due to how fast the body builds up a short term tolerance. No documented overdoses on either LSD or Marijuana.

Meanwhile, alcohol is legal despite frequent overdoses, high addiction issues, and severe physiological side effects.

Makes sense to me...

 

[FoolKiller]

Phenomenal article on gun control and how it relates to drug violence. I had never thought to completely link the gun violence statistics and the need for drug legalization quite as directly as is done here. In retrospect, how can one talk about legalizing drugs and not talk about gun violence? How can one talk about gun violence and not talk about legalization of drugs?

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArtic...nd_Amendment_advocate&slreturn=20130112104315

He has some holes in his argument. He assumes that those in the drug trade tend to be involved in nothing else and drug legalization will end their criminal careers. I doubt your average street dealer is able or willing to go legit. The chemistry guys and some of the mid-level organization guys might have skills to translate to the legal world, but the guy who is willing to kill over $50 probably won't make a decent register jockey.

I also don't like how he describes the Second Amendment, but that's another thread.

Drugs and gun violence are not related to everywhere as they are in the US. Here in the UK both are illegal and although we do have an element of gun violence it's usually gang or revenge related rather than drug related.

Around here the gangs are often the street-level drug dealers, or depending on their reach, the transportation. Not all of them are and just act as a system of solidarity for guys who feel pushed aside by society, but even those will have a connection to drugs, if just to allow dealers to sell on their turf.

 

[Danoff]

He has some holes in his argument. He assumes that those in the drug trade tend to be involved in nothing else and drug legalization will end their criminal careers. I doubt your average street dealer is able or willing to go legit. The chemistry guys and some of the mid-level organization guys might have skills to translate to the legal world, but the guy who is willing to kill over $50 probably won't make a decent register jockey.

...except that's exactly how it worked for the end of prohibition.

 

[Joel]

I guess the way I see it is that whether or not they want to go legit, their customer base will surely dry up won't it? I mean, cocaine isn't going to be legalized any time soon, and they'll still be able to sell those drugs, but losing the marijuana sales is going to kill a lot of organized crime. Legal marijuana being farmed with 2013 farming methods rather than under the stairs with a lamp at some guy's garage will surely be cheaper. Unless the government taxes the absolute hell out of it, I can't see the average street dealer keeping up with the economies of scale.

 

[FoolKiller]

...except that's exactly how it worked for the end of prohibition.

Yet, organized crime still exists. Not every member of the organizations escaped prison and went clean. The ones involved in call girls and gambling still had a place to go. The argument would be better if he said all victimless crimes instead of focusing on drugs.

But a lot of it will depend on how legalization goes. I just don't see the legalization process now occurring the way it did then. Back then it was just a repeal of a law. This will be treated like a whole new thing, and it is sure to get screwed up.

 

[Liquid]

I came up with an analogy-stroke-parable the other day and I wonder if it makes sense.

I am in favour of decriminalised but regulated drug laws. I'm sure most of us see the link between illegality and inferior, black market product quality.

Point being, I have a mild addiction to carbobated soft drinks. More specifically, an addiction to cola drinks. However, it is a manageable thing because, along with a dash of common sense, I know that if necessary, I can go out and buy cola for a reasonable price, free from social stigma and also be getting a good product free from powdered glass and laxatives. Maybe the same could be said for drugs, one day.

Does this make sense?

 

[Danny]

That makes sense. 👍

 

[Joel]

The other thing too is that it just doesn't make any reasonable sense at all that marijuana is illegal. It is just such a moronic and out of touch law. of God forbid the demand for takeout pizza increases and people become less aggressive. It really should be as easy as buying cigarettes.

I guess I think the counter to the rest would be that most people would say they'd rather not live in a country where it's totally cool to do heroin or cocaine if you want. I know a lot of people who just don't get that getting "tough" on drug crime doesn't work. They wouldn't get that doing MDMA at a club once doesn't lead to being addicted to heroin.

As you said, it's an addiction. We need to stop treating drug addicts like dangerous criminals and locking them up...where they become dangerous criminals. The most important thing to me would be that removing some of that stigma would make it easier to treat drug addiction as the mental health issue it is rather than the scary boogeyman criminals.

 

[Carlos]

Legal and illegal have bad things coming with them. It's just choosing the less worst one...

 

[Keef]

Drugs aren't bad. Using drugs aren't bad. It's what a person does during use that decides whether it's bad or not.

Drugs shouldn't be illegal because whatever dangerous behaviors one might do while on drugs is already illegal.

 

[Slash]

Drugs aren't bad. Using drugs aren't bad. It's what a person does during use that decides whether it's bad or not.

Drugs shouldn't be illegal because whatever dangerous behaviors one might do while on drugs is already illegal.

As a former addict myself I somewhat agree with this bit when you are under the influence you are impaired and at times can't realize or control what you are doing. It just happens.

 

[Joel]

As a former addict myself I somewhat agree with this bit when you are under the influence you are impaired and at times can't realize or control what you are doing. It just happens.

But that's the point. If you assault someone it doesn't matter what you're on, you've still assaulted someone and assault is already illegal. Bit of a bad example given that marijuana tends to lower aggression but you get the idea.

 

[Keef]

I love the title of this thread. Drugs. Whenever I read that I just think to myself, "Hell yeah."

Anyways, apparently there will be a pro-marijuana video ad on a giant monitor outside the Brickyard 400 race. It won't be on track property (Crown Royal and Miller Lite are big sponsors) but the ad basically lists all the advantages weed has over alcohol.

EDIT: Never mind. It got pulled.

As it turns out, there's just too much money in the confiscation of marijuana which is the only logical reason to keep it illegal. **** society.

 

[ExigeEvan]

So what do you do when you're neighbours are quite keen on their weed?
So much so that occasionally the smell wafts into your house or you can smell it in the back gardens.

They're half decent neighbours in fairness, had a few big parties but they always invite us and they've never bothered me.

Just, hmmm, responsible citizen?

 

[Keef]

My old neighbor used to smoke and we could smell it a bit. Never bothered me but I probably have more open air here then you Brits do.

Every time my uncle comes over he smokes in our garage. I don't see it as an issue but I'm not sure if other family members do.

 

[Slash]

But that's the point. If you assault someone it doesn't matter what you're on, you've still assaulted someone and assault is already illegal. Bit of a bad example given that marijuana tends to lower aggression but you get the idea.

I agree with you, I wasn't saying otherwise.

 

[SRV2LOW4ME]

So what do you do when you're neighbours are quite keen on their weed?
So much so that occasionally the smell wafts into your house or you can smell it in the back gardens.

They're half decent neighbours in fairness, had a few big parties but they always invite us and they've never bothered me.

Just, hmmm, responsible citizen?

A responsible citizen would inform the police if the neighbours were being a threat or brought around those who would be considered a problem for the neighbourhood.

From what you have said, they're basically good neighbours who are friendly and inviting but like to occasionally indulge in a toke once in a while. Why would you want to create a huge riff between the two of you?

My neighbours are loud, annoying, and constantly fighting in their backyard. I would love it if they shut up and stopped fighting and invited me over for a bowl or two.

 

[nobuffalo]

So what do you do when you're neighbours are quite keen on their weed?
So much so that occasionally the smell wafts into your house or you can smell it in the back gardens.

They're half decent neighbours in fairness, had a few big parties but they always invite us and they've never bothered me.

Just, hmmm, responsible citizen?

Is it getting you high? Do you complain when you smell their BBQ?

 

[shmogt]

Is it getting you high? Do you complain when you smell their BBQ?

I wish you could get high off bbq smell lol

 

[nobuffalo]

You can get hungry!

My point is, and I'm sure you get it, if it's not affecting you and you can only smell it why would you need to do anything? About the only way you're gonna get a contact high is if you're in a smoked out car or room that's visibly full of smoke and you're inhaling it, even then it isn't much of one. If you just don't like the smell then too bad, using the legality of it as an excuse to have it stopped is kinda lame.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

Why would you want to create a huge riff between the two of you?

Is it getting you high? Do you complain when you smell their BBQ?

He doesn't want to make a big deal about it, that's the point.

ExigeEvan works in the kind of industry where the slightest trace of drugs can get you instantly dismissed. Weed smoke isn't the most subtle of smells, it sticks to clothing, and, for non-smokers, isn't very pleasant full stop.

If I was in a similar position, I'd want to make a complaint too, as I wouldn't particularly want the smell of weed (which is disgusting in my opinion) wafting into my home. To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't really want any smell coming into my home, as I quite like it smelling clean and fresh, and not of weed, or cigarettes, or barbeque, or anything else.

Evan, are you familiar enough as neighbours to have a face-to-face chat about it? I'm sure they'll be apologetic and want to work with you to find a compromise.

 

[arora]

ExigeEvan works in the kind of industry where the slightest trace of drugs can get you instantly dismissed.

That is a ridiculous problem, growing a plant and burning it should not be such a deal. I agree with the rest of what you said.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

That is a ridiculous problem, growing a plant and burning it should not be such a deal. I agree with the rest of what you said.

I don't see how it's a ridiculous problem. Even if it was legal, I wouldn't want the smell of it anywhere near me, just like I don't want the smell of cigarette smoke near me.

As for drugs and work, the two should obviously never mix. Would you want a stoned engineer working on the design of something that you might potentially use in the future? The brake system of your car, for example? I know I wouldn't - there is a time and place for everything, and work is not it in this case.

 

[arora]

I don't care or want to care or know what another person does with his own time, I find it offensive the controlling aspect of our society. I already said I agreed with the rest of your post so...

And no, I am not scared of a stoned engineer lol. Personally I do not use drugs, I did as a kid and then I grew up I guess. I still don't see the justification of intolerance.

 

[nobuffalo]

He doesn't want to make a big deal about it, that's the point.

ExigeEvan works in the kind of industry where the slightest trace of drugs can get you instantly dismissed. Weed smoke isn't the most subtle of smells, it sticks to clothing, and, for non-smokers, isn't very pleasant full stop.

If I was in a similar position, I'd want to make a complaint too, as I wouldn't particularly want the smell of weed (which is disgusting in my opinion) wafting into my home. To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't really want any smell coming into my home, as I quite like it smelling clean and fresh, and not of weed, or cigarettes, or barbeque, or anything else.

Evan, are you familiar enough as neighbours to have a face-to-face chat about it? I'm sure they'll be apologetic and want to work with you to find a compromise.

I'm gonna have to disagree with the "occasional waft" of weed smell coming from neighbors sticking to clothing, there's not really much more I can say on the matter. I don't believe it's enough to cause an issue at someones employment. The smell of a smoked joint or blunt has more sticking power but even that isn't enough to last in a room after a night of open windows. I have been curious and often ask people that come into my room, they can either not smell it or are lying to me. More than likely any time you've smelt it on someone it's because they've just smoked.

There're just certain things I feel you gotta deal with when having neighbors, occasionally hearing or smelling them is one of them. Sure you can say something and you got every right, just not something I would do.

As for drugs and work, the two should obviously never mix. Would you want a stoned engineer working on the design of something that you might potentially use in the future? The brake system of your car, for example? I know I wouldn't - there is a time and place for everything, and work is not it in this case.

If there's no safety issues I see no reason why it can't mix. Some people do their best work while high.

I don't care or want to care or know what another person does with his own time, I find it offensive the controlling aspect of our society.

Thank you.

Personally I do not use drugs, I did as a kid and then I grew up I guess.

As if smoking pot or doing drugs makes someone not grown up? Are enjoyable things only meant for kids?

 

[FoolKiller]

Drugs and work, same as alcohol and work. Legal or not, no company in their right mind would allow use of any mood altering substance, or its residual effects, in the workplace. One accident and they have a massive liability on their hands.

If I owned a business you would not use any drugs or drink alcohol while on the job. End of story. My business. My rules.

 

[arora]

As if smoking pot or doing drugs makes someone not grown up? Are enjoyable things only meant for kids?

I didn't mean it like that, was simply saying how my life has gone 👍

If I owned a business you would not use any drugs or drink alcohol while on the job. End of story. My business. My rules.

That is a fair statement, it's the point some might cross when they tell another who to employ that bothers me. Also of course you do realize a pot test well show + even if 29 days have past sense the bastage burned the bush.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

I'm gonna have to disagree with the "occasional waft" of weed smell coming from neighbors sticking to clothing, there's not really much more I can say on the matter.

We'll agree to disagree. We'd (ba-dum-tsch) get nowhere arguing personal experiences against each other.

There're just certain things I feel you gotta deal with when having neighbors, occasionally hearing or smelling them is one of them.

There are things that you'd expect, and things that you wouldn't. Children being noisy while playing in the garden? Yes, as long as the noise level is reasonable and doesn't carry on too late into the night.
Bonfire smoke? That's fine, as long as you make sure that other neighbours don't have any washing out, don't burn anything that shouldn't be being burnt (plastic, chemicals, etc.) and only light it in the evening (in my case, my neighbours will simply tell me that they plan to have a bonfire, which works well as I can close windows, etc.).
The smell of illegal substances coming from next door? No, not reasonable. Even less reasonable if there are children present.

Adding to the above, the less discreet you are about using those illegal substances, the more likely I will be to notice and report you. If you assume 'It's ok, they won't mind the smell of weed now and again', then you will have a bad time.

If there's no safety issues I see no reason why it can't mix. Some people do their best work while high

I was talking about engineering, where drugs and work should never mix. In other places it is less of an issue, providing you are within the law. Also, see Foolkiller's post.

I don't care what other people do either - want to break the law? Carry on, but know the consequences. However, if you break the law and make it obvious to me, I will report you for breaking the law. If you do something to annoy me (such as allowing weed smoke to waft onto my property) while doing something illegal (such as smoking weed), I am almost guaranteed to report you.

 

[playnthru]

Under those 29 day grounds they some claim, Oh your under a residual effect! For all 29 days which is complete horse puckey! Crack Cocaine will rewire your brain forever yet you can pass a drug test in 24 hours.