DS4 snap countersteer lock (read OP)

Lord Protector
Guys, in beta controlling cars with DS4 was a joy but now the steering is awful. It's so unresponsive I cannot make a single countersteer move without crashing. Even on controller sensitivity set on the highest (7) the wheels just don't move fast enough.

Please tell me somebody else feels this it's driving me crazy.

Also, if anyone has a twitter account please tweet Kaz or GT what's wrong with this.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

BTW I couldn't find anywhere sensitivity settings for controller, ...or am I missing something?!?!
 
TRGTspecialist
A new "Known Issues" post has been put up by PD today, and:



So well done on the research, discussion + reporting folks, with any luck this thread will turn out to be a successful one. 👍
Click to expand...

No amount of speed increase is going to fix this issue, let's hope when they test their speed increase they'll find out it's the DS4 input sensitivity that's going out of wack when you drift or break traction.

PzR Slim
Check the first video in this post on this very thread https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/ds4-steering-way-too-unresponsive.361272/page-5#post-11983123

Steering wheel is not on screen but check the red dot which shows the steering position.
Click to expand...

That video is showing the normal damping that happens when you steer with a controller, it's going to take time to go from lock to lock in a stationary car, it shouldn't zip to either side. All GT games have this in place, it's how folks can stay on the road at in using that tiny DS4 nub in place of a fully rotating steering wheel. It looks absurd visually in car though but viewed externally you can see that the wheels take time to get to lock and to return once you release the stick. It's not 1:1 but probably something much lower in order to map steering well enough to the analog stick. The visuals of the read out isn't calibrated all that well to begin with. I can move the analog stick all the way to lock on the visual read out and still have more than half the distance from the rest position of the analog stick I can move which visually outside the car is still represented accurately. Try it yourself, this you can see easily. My controller sensitivity is at 0.

The problem is folks are taking the visuals too seriously, watching the actual wheels of the car provides you with more of what's actually happening. They need to calibrate that on screen wheel map meter, it's far too inaccurate. The position of the driver is more accurate than the on screen meter to a point, but once you reach lock(visually in car) it's no longer informative of what the wheels are doing just like with the on screen meter there is still more left in what the actual wheel have until lock.

The on screen visuals are only waiting for the actual wheels to reach the tracking point to start tracking visually steering inputs, this needs to be tightened up considerably as there is quite a bit of play from on screen visual lock to the wheels reaching actual steering lock(this creates that visual lag people were complaining about). The inability to drift or save an upset car is a separate issue of sensitivity of inputs being read too accurately(when traction is broken) thus allowing greater than normal steering input to be communicated to the steering wheels of the car hence always over correcting when trying to counter steer. At low speeds this translates into far too much steering angle which makes hard launches treacherous as you fishtail wildly because your steering inputs are being read too close to the movements of the analog stick. Problem is massive steering angles from small inputs, you can crank up the steering sensitivity in the options to max but that introduces another problem twitchy overall steering and drifting means rapidly tweaking the stick so not even remotely a fix for an issue that affects one aspect of driving(it does help a bit due to steering being faster to mitigate some over compensation of the input problem but does not solve it).

I'm writing this as I'm trying all sorts of things to figure out just what on earth is the issue from a players' point of view. All of it points to just too much input being communicated to the game under conditions of broken traction, even with sensitivity cranked to the max it turns into maddening tapping and waiting and tapping instead of rocking the control left or right(which worked due to speed of sensitivity and damping working correctly), all I've got is greater speed matched with far too acutely read input. Visually the wheels barely move faster, not of that twitchy unrealistic looking stuff, so it's down to too much angle which is probably why faster sensitivity works a little bit. Faster steering will not fix this problem since at low speeds fast steering barely makes it manageable, still that brings issues to cars that have fast steering by default like the GR1 class cars. In and out of options screen is not my idea of a fun time in a game.

I thought I posted this, seems I forgot to.

I don't have the game yet but I do not think that boosting steering speed can fix the problem as it's not the steering speed that is the issue but simply the sensitivity of your analog read outs or as I see it over sensitivity. I feel like I should buy the game but I'm still on the fence about that save caveat, I do hope that those who pick it up can give us word on whether PD addressed the steering issue when drifting.

rex1825
Oh believe me, was looking all over and couldn't find it anywhere... lol
Click to expand...

On the track, hit options and check in that options menu at the very bottom you should see advanced options, steering sensitivity should be two slots from the bottom if memory serves correct.
 
The thing is, if you're using a wheel you'll never need to make fast, large movements because it is much more realistic and far less forgiving than GT6, so perhaps they have tried to make the pads more compatible and easier to use with the new physics because the stick travel is very short and far from ideal. After all these years, no one has developed a proper controller with decent length sticks with precise control which is imperative if you want to be competitive.

I think most would struggle to swing their wheels from lock to lock in two seconds anyway, so I wouldn't worry. If there is a delay between making a small correction compared to a wheel, then that is an issue.

I drove quiet a few cars on the demo with the GT3 Porsche being the least forgiving and whilst I know the T300RS has almost no delay in steering correction, I lost the back end quite a few times with slightly slow corrections which had little effect in preventing half spins, full spins or tank-slappers. It is much more real now, and rightly so. The idea is to learn to correct the thing slightly before it lets go.
 
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For those who can test this on the DS4 controller...

In GT6 there was a noticeable lag when using the sticks for steering and acceleration/braking as well. The lag was actually substantially reduced when you turned the force feedback option OFF. It DID NOT eliminate the lag altogether, but the improvement was definitive.

I'll be testing this soon, but for those who have it up and running now, it might be worth a go!

Cheers
 
mirial
The thing is, if you're using a wheel you'll never need to make fast, large movements because it is much more realistic and far less forgiving than GT6, so perhaps they have tried to make the pads more compatible and easier to use with the new physics because the stick travel is very short and far from ideal. After all these years, no one has developed a proper controller with decent length sticks with precise control which is imperative if you want to be competitive.

I think most would struggle to swing their wheels from lock to lock in two seconds anyway, so I wouldn't worry. If there is a delay between making a small correction compared to a wheel, then that is an issue.

I drove quiet a few cars on the demo with the GT3 Porsche being the least forgiving and whilst I know the T300RS has almost no delay in steering correction, I lost the back end quite a few times with slightly slow corrections which had little effect in preventing half spins, full spins or tank-slappers. It is much more real now, and rightly so. The idea is to learn to correct the thing slightly before it lets go.
Click to expand...

No, this is not more real. In real life you can correct a slide. Yes some cars are more forgiving, but with some practice it is possible. A little correction, a lot of correction, no correction, nothing works and that is not real.
 
RichiPuppy
No, this is not more real. In real life you can correct a slide. Yes some cars are more forgiving, but with some practice it is possible. A little correction, a lot of correction, no correction, nothing works and that is not real.
Click to expand...

...problem is counter steer speed, if they can adjust that, or at least give an option where you can set up it would be just fine.

Right now as it stands speed of steering and counter steering is determined by how far is knob from center, but it would be better if that same thing would define angle between 0 and little over max grip for current speed for tires, as it was in GT5/GT6...
 
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SavageEvil
No amount of speed increase is going to fix this issue, let's hope when they test their speed increase they'll find out it's the DS4 input sensitivity that's going out of wack when you drift or break traction.



That video is showing the normal damping that happens when you steer with a controller, it's going to take time to go from lock to lock in a stationary car, it shouldn't zip to either side. All GT games have this in place, it's how folks can stay on the road at in using that tiny DS4 nub in place of a fully rotating steering wheel. It looks absurd visually in car though but viewed externally you can see that the wheels take time to get to lock and to return once you release the stick. It's not 1:1 but probably something much lower in order to map steering well enough to the analog stick. The visuals of the read out isn't calibrated all that well to begin with. I can move the analog stick all the way to lock on the visual read out and still have more than half the distance from the rest position of the analog stick I can move which visually outside the car is still represented accurately. Try it yourself, this you can see easily. My controller sensitivity is at 0.

The problem is folks are taking the visuals too seriously, watching the actual wheels of the car provides you with more of what's actually happening. They need to calibrate that on screen wheel map meter, it's far too inaccurate. The position of the driver is more accurate than the on screen meter to a point, but once you reach lock(visually in car) it's no longer informative of what the wheels are doing just like with the on screen meter there is still more left in what the actual wheel have until lock.

The on screen visuals are only waiting for the actual wheels to reach the tracking point to start tracking visually steering inputs, this needs to be tightened up considerably as there is quite a bit of play from on screen visual lock to the wheels reaching actual steering lock(this creates that visual lag people were complaining about). The inability to drift or save an upset car is a separate issue of sensitivity of inputs being read too accurately(when traction is broken) thus allowing greater than normal steering input to be communicated to the steering wheels of the car hence always over correcting when trying to counter steer. At low speeds this translates into far too much steering angle which makes hard launches treacherous as you fishtail wildly because your steering inputs are being read too close to the movements of the analog stick. Problem is massive steering angles from small inputs, you can crank up the steering sensitivity in the options to max but that introduces another problem twitchy overall steering and drifting means rapidly tweaking the stick so not even remotely a fix for an issue that affects one aspect of driving(it does help a bit due to steering being faster to mitigate some over compensation of the input problem but does not solve it).

I'm writing this as I'm trying all sorts of things to figure out just what on earth is the issue from a players' point of view. All of it points to just too much input being communicated to the game under conditions of broken traction, even with sensitivity cranked to the max it turns into maddening tapping and waiting and tapping instead of rocking the control left or right(which worked due to speed of sensitivity and damping working correctly), all I've got is greater speed matched with far too acutely read input. Visually the wheels barely move faster, not of that twitchy unrealistic looking stuff, so it's down to too much angle which is probably why faster sensitivity works a little bit. Faster steering will not fix this problem since at low speeds fast steering barely makes it manageable, still that brings issues to cars that have fast steering by default like the GR1 class cars. In and out of options screen is not my idea of a fun time in a game.

I thought I posted this, seems I forgot to.

I don't have the game yet but I do not think that boosting steering speed can fix the problem as it's not the steering speed that is the issue but simply the sensitivity of your analog read outs or as I see it over sensitivity. I feel like I should buy the game but I'm still on the fence about that save caveat, I do hope that those who pick it up can give us word on whether PD addressed the steering issue when drifting.



On the track, hit options and check in that options menu at the very bottom you should see advanced options, steering sensitivity should be two slots from the bottom if memory serves correct.
Click to expand...

LOL, I cannot understand why is it so hard to put all freaking options into the options menu, even as sub menu...
 
rex1825
LOL, I cannot understand why is it so hard to put all freaking options into the options menu, even as sub menu...
Click to expand...
It is unbelievable bad how few settings we can change in console games... And add the fact that it's Polyphony behind the game... You can be sure you won't have much more freedom in the near future either.
 
Tikkaritsa
It is unbelievable bad how little settings we can change in console games... And add the fact that it's Polyphony behind the game... You can be sure you won't have much more freedom in the near future either.
Click to expand...

I know, been with them for last 20 years... but this is 21st century, or is it not... :D
 
rex1825
LOL, I cannot understand why is it so hard to put all freaking options into the options menu, even as sub menu...
Click to expand...

Well put it into perspective, how useful would adjusting viewpoint, seat position and host of other things of that nature be useful when you can't see any of it unless you are on the game play screen? That's literally the reason why most of that stuff is in that option screen since you can check them almost immediately after you made changes, outside of the game play screen it's pretty much useless until you get all the way to the game play screen anyway.
It's more logical than we think:gtpflag:. If it was available you'd still have to make adjustment from the game play option menu anyway since changes out side of the game play environment were made blind.
 
RichiPuppy
No, this is not more real. In real life you can correct a slide. Yes some cars are more forgiving, but with some practice it is possible. A little correction, a lot of correction, no correction, nothing works and that is not real.
Click to expand...

I should have mentioned that the Porsche did have RHs on. With sport tyres fitted or less, yes, you would expect to be able to get away with more, and also in any other road car, but didn't get a chance to compare. Either way, you always lose time, except the penalty is much more severe with slicks on because of the amount of adhesion they provide. Nothing is free!
 
SavageEvil
No amount of speed increase is going to fix this issue, let's hope when they test their speed increase they'll find out it's the DS4 input sensitivity that's going out of wack when you drift or break traction.
Click to expand...
Can't say I have an issue with the DS4 input sensitivity. Drifting is tough, granted, but then anybody can make a car go in a straight line or coast around a corner in real life.
 
PzR Slim
PD clearly don't agree with you. And the the dig at other people's ability is pathetic.
Click to expand...

It’s safe to assume, by this anger, the rather large Day One Patch still has not fixed this, despite being a “known issue”.

FAN-FRIGGIN-TASTIC.
 
DaveTheStalker
It’s safe to assume, by this anger, the rather large Day One Patch still has not fixed this, despite being a “known issue”.

FAN-FRIGGIN-TASTIC.
Click to expand...

With some luck it should be fixed quickly, I imagine it'll take longer to get it cert than to actually develop the patch ^^ I'm hoping for a quick turn around
 
chris4652009
I'm refreshing "watched threads" on mobile browser between license challenges.
LOVING the game so far

Slim do you mind me asking how recently you played GT6? honestly the ability to catch a slid isn't much different at all. I was playing GT1 through 6 over the weekend.
I cannot see the issue
Click to expand...

I just played GT6 this weekend and it is completely 180 different in how it handles during a slide. Not sure how people are not noticing this. I can't imagine it being a case by case thing. I would like to see a video of you doing controlled slides in the Mercedes GT3. I am waiting for a fix for this before I buy it.
 
This is not a GTS vs 'whatever' thread, and as such I've just had to clean the thread of a large number of posts that were from members who don't seem to understand that, or talk to each other in a civil manner.

The AUP is clear in these regards and any future failure to follow it will result in warning being issued to the members in question.
 
Scaff
This is not a GTS vs 'whatever' thread, and as such I've just had to clean the thread of a large number of posts that were from members who don't seem to understand that, or talk to each other in a civil manner.

The AUP is clear in these regards and any future failure to follow it will result in warning being issued to the members in question.
Click to expand...

Off-topic ish but I'm interested in your full physics analysis. Have you done one?
 

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