Duke Racing Celica GT-Four Time Attack Racecar

[Paulie]

Wheel spacers are illegal. I'd be looking for wheels with better offset.

 

[Punknoodle]

Wheel spacers are illegal. I'd be looking for wheels with better offset.

Yeah, but that's a stupid law

 

[Mike_grpA]

Sounds great man, well if you ever need any help or advice just send me a message, I know these things fairly well now One thing I think that changes the look of these cars so much for the better is a pair of wheel spacers at the back, the gap between the body work and the front of the wheel is huge especially with standard rims and it just makes the car look wider from the rear.

Yeah for sure, cheers mate

I wouldn't go with wheel spacers just because I've read these have pretty weak wheel bearings, so I'd prefer to just go wider wheels with a better offset, but I definitely agree that the extra space is begging to be used!

I'd really like a set of white te37s. I think they'd look great against the red paintwork. The stock wheels are just awful lol. I said to a friend "what were they thinking, 'right, we've given the car pumped guards and a tough front end, it looks quite menacing from every angle, let's make the wheels look like flowers'".

 

[Punknoodle]

Yeah for sure, cheers mate

I wouldn't go with wheel spacers just because I've read these have pretty weak wheel bearings, so I'd prefer to just go wider wheels with a better offset, but I definitely agree that the extra space is begging to be used!

I'd really like a set of white te37s. I think they'd look great against the red paintwork. The stock wheels are just awful lol. I said to a friend "what were they thinking, 'right, we've given the car pumped guards and a tough front end, it looks quite menacing from every angle, let's make the wheels look like flowers'".

Running a rim with a different offset puts the same load on the wheel bearing as running a hubcentric spacer with the same offset rim, it's the total offset that dictates this. Many cars run spacers from the factory, like Porsche for instance. As long as it's a hubcentric spacer and you use qood quality bolt on ones I believe they are perfectly safe. Also remember this is a homologation car and the rally car is built tough for jumping etc.

The main I bought my wheels in the same offset and run a spacer is because the rear subframe from an ST205 bolts straight in to the ST185 but it has a wider track (about 25mm each side - same as my spacers). Long term wise I planned on swapping to the different subframe as when you change the contact patch by use of a spacer or a different offset wheel you change the suspension geometry (scrub angle mainly) and I wasn't sure how the car would handle.

Honestly though, the car handles great with the extra track at the rear even with the ST185 subframe, so I'm not really in a rush to change to the ST205 subframe. I take mine to the track and build up big brake temperatures and push the car out on to the rumble strip and my bearings are fine Completely understand if you don't want to run them and not trying to convince you, just wanted to displace some of the myths regarding proper spacers. Obviously running a spacer especially of non hubcentric design and without extended wheel nuts or something is dangerous and I think its because of the risk of people doing something like that that they just ban non oem use of spacers.

I think bronze TE37s would look nicer than white. I've actually started thinking again of sellling my SSRs and getting a set of Enkei RPF1s. There is just sometimg simple but awesome looking about them!

 

[Mike_grpA]

Running a rim with a different offset puts the same load on the wheel bearing as running a hubcentric spacer with the same offset rim, it's the total offset that dictates this. Many cars run spacers from the factory, like Porsche for instance. As long as it's a hubcentric spacer and you use qood quality bolt on ones I believe they are perfectly safe. Also remember this is a homologation car and the rally car is built tough for jumping etc.

The main I bought my wheels in the same offset and run a spacer is because the rear subframe from an ST205 bolts straight in to the ST185 but it has a wider track (about 25mm each side - same as my spacers). Long term wise I planned on swapping to the different subframe as when you change the contact patch by use of a spacer or a different offset wheel you change the suspension geometry (scrub angle mainly) and I wasn't sure how the car would handle.

Honestly though, the car handles great with the extra track at the rear even with the ST185 subframe, so I'm not really in a rush to change to the ST205 subframe. I take mine to the track and build up big brake temperatures and push the car out on to the rumble strip and my bearings are fine Completely understand if you don't want to run them and not trying to convince you, just wanted to displace some of the myths regarding proper spacers. Obviously running a spacer especially of non hubcentric design and without extended wheel nuts or something is dangerous and I think its because of the risk of people doing something like that that they just ban non oem use of spacers.

I think bronze TE37s would look nicer than white. I've actually started thinking again of sellling my SSRs and getting a set of Enkei RPF1s. There is just sometimg simple but awesome looking about them!

Yeah I wasnt trying to say all spacers are evil or anything, but running wider wheels allows more offset without putting so much extra pressure on the bearings, as long as you keep the inside edge where the standard ones sit. But I never knew the 205 sub frame bolted right in! Knowing that makes that a way more sensible idea to widen the track, as the problem I had with wider rear tyres was the car doesn't exactly need more understeer lol.

You're right about the choice of spacers too, hubcentric spacers are the only ones worth using for sure.

As for the wheels, I've never been a fan of bronze wheels on a red car. If it was white I would be more inclined to go with bronze, but I like white wheels on red bodywork. Also, RPF1s are my favourite wheels of all time I think, so good choice mate, would look amazing!

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Wheel spacers are illegal. I'd be looking for wheels with better offset.

@Punknoodle

I would also try to avoid wheel spacers especially if you are taking it to a road track or autocross or providing excessive abuse. We could go on and on about this but its always better to have 1 surface contact between a wheel and its mounting surface. As opposed to 2 mounting surfaces if you use a spacer. Also likely to get more vibration, more chance of corrosion or rust resulting in increased chances of failure with multiple mating surfaces. Plus even more stress on the studs since the final torque location of the lug nut is further out toward the END thread away from its strongest mounting location. Its just MUCH safer bolting a rim directly to the mounting surface. Please avoid wheel spacers.

 

[Punknoodle]

@Punknoodle

I would also try to avoid wheel spacers especially if you are taking it to a road track or autocross or providing excessive abuse. We could go on and on about this but its always better to have 1 surface contact between a wheel and its mounting surface. As opposed to 2 mounting surfaces if you use a spacer. Also likely to get more vibration, more chance of corrosion or rust resulting in increased chances of failure with multiple mating surfaces. Plus even more stress on the studs since the final torque location of the lug nut is further out toward the END thread away from its strongest mounting location. Its just MUCH safer bolting a rim directly to the mounting surface. Please avoid wheel spacers.

Everyone has an opinion on this. The reality is, Porsche used spacers as standard OEM equipment on some of their cars. While I somewhat agree regarding slip in spacers, due to there being something in between the mating surfaces that can vibrate, especially non hubcentric spacers, in my instance I am using bolt on spacers that bolt on to my wheel studs then has its own studs that I bolt the wheel to.

This provides solid, direct mounting connections for both spacer and wheel.

I've taken my car on long journeys, multiple track days, lots of hard driving. Not one loose stud.

Like I said, if done right, they are fine.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Having proper bolt on hubcentric spacers, as @Punknoodle says, eliminates the vibration problem of the older slip on types. It also eliminates the extra stress the slip on spacers put on the wheel studs, as the nuts are still fixed close to the hub, and you have another set of studs on the spacer for the wheel to mount to.

The only downside of running them on the rear is as I said, extra load on the bearings, as you're moving the wheel further away from it, and it has a lever action on the bearings. It's not dangerous, like running slip on spacers, but it will reduce bearing life. Bearings on st185 celicas are the same as a bunch of other toyotas, like the camry, so they're cheap as chips to replace anyway.

The only other problem I could see is if you ran them on the front it would change the steering geometry. But running them on the back is fine if you don't mind replacing bearings a little more regularly.

Cheers for the info about the 205 subframe @Punknoodle that has completely changed my plan for the rear end of my car. It's the perfect solution! Obviously it's going to be a pain finding an entire rear end from a 205, but I'm glad there's a better alternative to spacers and changing wheel offset.

 

[Punknoodle]

Edit: Not selling lol. Just can't do it.

 

[Korza]

Where's the unlike button?

 

[Punknoodle]

Nah it's all good! It's still a great car, looks fantastic, and I will miss it, but it's time to realize that it will never be comparable to a modern car for speed, handling, features and reliability and I think it's best to put aside my sentimentality and let it go. I have plans for a pretty decent replacement for it's spot in the garage.

 

[GDII]

Sad to see you selling but your comments are true about modern cars, although new cars (at least the last 5 years) don't appeal to me.

I hope you get a decent price for it. I imagine you will with JDM cars in Oz being expensive.

 

[Snaeper]

It is technically legal for import into the US now.... hmm.

But no, I love GT-Four's, but don't want one that bad.

 

[Punknoodle]

I think it's going to take some time to sell. I want a reasonable price for it and it isn't financially necessary for me to sell it, it's more just to gain the garage space for a different car and to ensure it gets the use it deserves, so I'm not in a hurry. Demand isn't particularly strong for these cars.

I was convinced I was going to place an order on the new Ford Focus RS, but now I'm not so sure. Mechanically they look fantastic but it looks too much like a standard old Focus hatchback. I did take a Renault Megane RS 275 Trophy for a test drive and thought it was great, the front wheel drive didn't bother me at all. That's still on the maybe list.

Both have nice big brakes to handle track abuse, plenty of power, but who knows. I might spy a great condition used car like an Evo IX or something and use the extra cash on some large brakes.

Still going to do some track days this year in the GT-Four, really hope to get involved in the Mt Cotton Hill Climb this year too.

 

[Punknoodle]

Japanese Nationals Time Attack at Queensland Raceway, May 14. Just paid my entry fee, going to give the Celica a bit of a run.

 

[GDII]

Very much like, give it death but don't kill it

 

[Punknoodle]

I'll try not to!

Just finished my garage floor, I laid down an epoxy coating. So much better than plain concrete! Bonnet is up, going to do fluid changes etc and bleed through some nice fresh SRF brake fluid before the track day. You'll notice the lack of For Sale signs. Can't do it yet. Decided that I haven't used it enough to lose the amount of money I would lose on it and that I don't need a new car right now. So it's staying!

 

[GDII]

Love the garage floor. So clean. I've put down carpet tiles in my rental, red and black to match the car. Free stuff is good.
Glad to hear you aren't selling it now. It's too cool to sell. I couldn't sell a car like that, I'd be too attached like I am to my MR2. I'll never sell it.

 

[Punknoodle]

Well, yesterday was a bloody fantastic day. I was leaning on the car harder than I have previously and it performed awesome. No overheating until the last couple of sessions, but manageable. Brakes were pretty far gone at the end of each session from pad fade but there isn't much I can do about that, I'm already using good pads, rotors and fluid, the stock brakes are simply too small. Completely smashed my PBs and I honestly think that the skills I've learned through sim racing have played a big part in that, as well as the car performing, obviously.

Still time in it, my optimum lap for each layout is quicker. Had a pretty decent spin at the start of the day in turn 1. It's the fastest corner on the track (in my car it's a 172km/h approach speed) and I think it was a combination of my tire temps and pressures not being right yet and I was probably a little too hungry going in to it and it resulted in a 180 degree spin. I'll have to dig out the telemetry later on and have a look at my mid corner speed.

Finished the day with a BBQ at our house with some of my good friends. Perfect day, really.

Anyway, here's a highlight video of my fastest laps from a few different angles and my spin.

 

[Punknoodle]

Some shots from a professional photographer who was there in the weekend:

 

[Paulie]

Getting late, gotta get to bed. I'll watch the video tomorrow, 1:03 is not hanging around though.

 

[Ibonibo]

Hahaha, reading through the last post : "gonna sell / ahh nah not gonna sell / up for sale / it's a keeper..."



Nice video. Looks like a fun circuit, especially having two layouts (on one day? ) 👍

Impressed by the sound the gopro gets while mounted to the bumper.

While yes, 90's car have problems competing with modern, their feel is something new cars are completely missing. All drive by wire....

👍

 

[Punknoodle]

Hahaha, reading through the last post : "gonna sell / ahh nah not gonna sell / up for sale / it's a keeper..."



Nice video. Looks like a fun circuit, especially having two layouts (on one day? ) 👍

Impressed by the sound the gopro gets while mounted to the bumper.

While yes, 90's car have problems competing with modern, their feel is something new cars are completely missing. All drive by wire....

👍

Haha yeah it's been a real conflict of feelings lol. Still really want an MX5 but can't sell this in good conscience! Need my wife to allow me to have both. Working on it.

And yeah I love the noise from the bumper too! Yep, both layouts in the same day, we do 4 sessions (each session is 6 laps) on one layout then they change the cones around and we do 4 sessions on the other layout. Occasionally people get mixed up but it doesn't get dangerous, they just look silly!

 

[Paulie]

Haha yeah it's been a real conflict of feelings lol. Still really want an MX5 but can't sell this in good conscience! Need my wife to allow me to have both. Working on it.

And yeah I love the noise from the bumper too! Yep, both layouts in the same day, we do 4 sessions (each session is 6 laps) on one layout then they change the cones around and we do 4 sessions on the other layout. Occasionally people get mixed up but it doesn't get dangerous, they just look silly!

Your Celica is way better than an MX-5 anyway. Looks like it was a good day.👍

 

[GDII]

So much shiny!! The wheels look great. One of my favorite styles of wheel for a JDM car.
It's great to see you still using it. An MX5 and the Celica would be cool to have. Both great cars but very different.

 

[Punknoodle]

More photos! From another photographer who was there...

 

[Punknoodle]

So, looking at my Telemetry I am planning on doing a few things when I get the head done. I think I should go with a remote oil filter and oil cooler, and add some ducting in behind the bumper to force all the air through the various coolers. Anyone have any experience they can offer when it comes to selecting the right oil cooler, line sizes etc for doing this? I don't know if I'll need to upgrade the pump for instance to allow for the added length of piping that the oil needs to be pumped through. Do I need to have a bypass past the cooler with a thermostat to allow for the oil to reach optimum temp? Anyone else done a project like this? Do I even need to go with an air cooler if my coolant temps are kept in check?

 

[GDII]

Do you know what your oil temps are doing? Might want to check that but I suspect they are getting up higher than they should.

I don't know much about oil coolers themselves but definitely run a thermostat to allow all you oil to heat up but not get over cooled. They work different to coolant systems where 10% of the oil is always going through the cooler so you don't get cold oil shock when it opens.

What tires are you running on the track? All the photos make it look like some form of semi slick.

 

[Punknoodle]

Fronts were a semi slick (Federal 595 RS-R) but the backs were only Dunlop Sport Maxx TTs (probably why the rear felt squirmy...)

I'll be going with full semi slicks next time though. Why do you mention the photos make it look like a semi slick? In one of the photos you can see the front tires have quite a bit of deflection going on under load which looks quite cool.

 

[GDII]

The sidewalls are very rounded and smooth. No obvious tread pattern on the shoulders or branding on the sidewall. One photo does show road tire type tread on the rear but that's the tread face rather than the sidewall and shoulder.