Dynamic weather and light conditions not in Gran Turismo Sport
- Thread starter djm99
- 134 comments
- 12,556 views
- 14,436
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
I didn't have an extended sit down with it, only a few stints of gameplay, so I wouldn't be able to comment on that. However, I did like what I was seeing, but if what you say is anything to go by than it would likely be only something I'd use for movies. Not necessarily a bad thing though.
Well, that was... in depth. So in other words, some certain FPS outputs just don't work well with certain TV refresh rates? That's basically what we've been discussing. The fluidity of certain FPS outputs that seem to work well or better with certain refresh rates. If I'm wrong, that's fine, all that means is that today I'll learn something
Although, I think we've all took this too far off topic, so if you wish to elaborate on that, I would love to hear it on my wall or a PM.
- 8,723
It's possible you could still set the time of day beforehand, and the game does a bit of pre-rendering once it loads the track. But it'd be fixed from then on.
They couldn't make the shadows and such until all the geometry was loaded, so they couldn't use their streaming trick to improve loading times, and it'd likely look ugly if they waited until the last minute to do the pre-rendering.
So we'll probably just get the presets, then. Remember, "we" asked for this with all that public complaining about the shadows etc.
- 1,537
- GTP_Soundtrack
My previous post featured an in depth list of supported frame rates by HDTV's.
Isn't that exactly the plan? It seems we have already seen Brand Hatch under different (day) lighting conditions.
- 173
- Brooklyn, New York City
- matanui08
I am pretty sure we will still have the time option but it will be static time like what Forza 6 has, Dusk, Dawn, Day, Night, will probably be preset options and hopefully all tracks will have this since the Tokyo track will probably look better at night than it would at Day. Weather, I honestly hope we atleast have rain but it will be preset so it doesn't change.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I think the general consensus among many was that the PS4 was sooooooo powerful, they'd be able to do everything they did on PS3 but better, near Drive Club visuals and pump out a solid 60 at the same time. Apparently this is not the case which doesn't surprise me, and personally I'm happy with the tradeoff.
- 8,723
Yes some people did think that; more the fool them. I'm sure many others had their feet on the ground about it. Hence "we".
I'd rather have the dynamic system back at a lower quality myself.
- 8,434
- Rockay City
You forgot 4K gaming.
- 1,437
- The Motherland
- Manasseh257
And that's where my question arises. Is the PS4 not powerful enough to render dynamic conditions while holding 60 fps, or is it simply PD hasn't figured out a way to make it work?
While the PS3 is a weaker system, it still attempted dynamic conditions at 60 fps (Although it was poor, screen tearing, frame drops, bad shadows, no puddles or noticable water on track etc.) But PS3 being a 7 year old system at the time nevertheless was still able to get by and by the PS4 being way more powerful as Sony and people alike say, why isn't PD capable of doing it again? Is it a hardware limitation or is it a roadblock they haven't found a workaround for yet?
Also does VR HAVE to be at 60 fps? Is it completely necessary? Not too sure how all that stuff works.
Too add on, I'm not or ever was going down the "Kaz is a liar" route. I simply want to know if the PS4 wasn't as powerful to withhold all the features wanted as Kaz thought it could, or was it simply they haven't figured out a formula to make it all work. I'm holding hope to the assumption that due to GTS being on VR, PD Doesn't want to have any picture quality issues again like in GT6. So they're not even going to risk attempting to utilize dynamic conditions in the game, not because they're incapable, but because they haven't found a way to do it effectively yet.
I hope that is the case and it's not that the PS4 can't handle it. If it's a hardware limitation, I guess I can say bye bye to 24 hour races unless GT7 runs at locked 30 fps.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Strictly speaking, the PS3 should be capable of it (dynamic conditions at 60fps). But it'd require a significant hit to the visual quality of the rest of the game, and likely a reduction in resolution, too. There's no reason for us to think a game with the visual quality of GT6 couldn't run at a locked 1080p/60fps with the dynamic time and weather on the PS4.
It's all about compromise though. A game with those features would have to sacrifice elsewhere. PD has targeted higher visual quality, more cars on track, and a true HD setup, so something had to give.
- 1,437
- The Motherland
- Manasseh257
ahh well. Hopefully they can figure something out for GT7 
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
If developers can figure out how to get some "free lunch" by offloading some of those intensive processes onto the GPU without eating into graphical performance, it will happen. Mark Cerny and some of the other designers are sure that PS4 is going to be delivering more surprises over the course of its lifetime than PS3 did.
- 2,810
- Tasmania, AU
- stigsdaddy
To be honest, I would have preferred PD place graphics well down the priority list this time around. Pcars graphics are good enough for a sim on PS4, and it's honestly not a lot better looking than GT6. I'd even argue the better premium cars in GT6 look better than the cars in Pcars. If PD had GT6 premium quality car models, and then upped the circuit quality to Pcars' level, they could have had all the dynamic goodies, and still optimised it to run a solid 60fps. The problem is, they're obsessed with having the most photo-realistic graphics, that they'll sacrifice far more important things to have it.
I saw a screenshot that showed the game will have endurance events like the Nurburgring 24H, which will be a complete joke without variable time and weather. Woo-hoo, let's race for 24 hours of clear daylight, how fun. At least it'll bring back memories of GT4 lol. Seriously though, without dynamic weather, the races will be lacking the element of strategy that changeable conditions bring.
Edit: There's nothing more nerve-racking than racing on the Nordschleife in thick fog at night, eyes watering from forgetting to blink, using every bit of focus just to keep the car on track, while hoping it won't start raining. Or, seeing those first few drops of rain on the windscreen, just after starting a lap of the Nurb 24h layout, and knowing the pain that's coming your way while you fight your car to make it around the enormous lap in one piece to pit for wet tyres.
I saw a screenshot that showed the game will have endurance events like the Nurburgring 24H, which will be a complete joke without variable time and weather. Woo-hoo, let's race for 24 hours of clear daylight, how fun. At least it'll bring back memories of GT4 lol. Seriously though, without dynamic weather, the races will be lacking the element of strategy that changeable conditions bring.
Edit: There's nothing more nerve-racking than racing on the Nordschleife in thick fog at night, eyes watering from forgetting to blink, using every bit of focus just to keep the car on track, while hoping it won't start raining. Or, seeing those first few drops of rain on the windscreen, just after starting a lap of the Nurb 24h layout, and knowing the pain that's coming your way while you fight your car to make it around the enormous lap in one piece to pit for wet tyres.
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- 496
- England
Project Cars is hugely better looking than GT6, and you get a much better sense of racing Come to think of it Forza 2 with it's FPS and lack of screen tearing and all premium cars is better looking in my opinion, but that's another subject.
Disappointed that the PS4 is still not powerful enough to give us a perfect GT experience, and as much as i dislike the idea that there is to be a "PS4.5" i hope it'll make a big difference.
- 2,810
- Tasmania, AU
- stigsdaddy
Pcars is better looking than GT6, I didn't at any point say it wasn't. What I said was the best quality premium cars in GT6 look better than the cars in Pcars, and I should have added "on ps4" to that, as on the highest settings on PC, the poly count is much higher. However, I also stated the environments are much better in Pcars, and if GTS had GT6 premium quality cars in Pcars quality tracks, it would look good enough, and would have plenty of headroom for dynamic time of day and weather, and still be able to run at a solid 60fps.
As for Pcars giving you a better sense of racing than GT6, you'll get no argument from me on that one, it's in a completely different league.
Edit: I should have also added that the reason the top GT6 premiums look better is because they have nothing under the panels modeled, so they use as much as 500k polys on the exterior only, and this shows when you zoom right in on them. Pcars on PS4 has around 70k polys per car, and that includes all the stuff modeled underneath so that it can have a really good damage model. When you zoom in on them in Pcars, you can see the squared off edges of the polys quite clearly, but I don't mind that it doesn't have amazing graphics, because as I said, it's good enough, and the physics and features are far more important to me.
- 38
- PL-GB
- thedawidm86pl
Project Cars looks more PC-ish. For Example Nurb or Bathurs in GT6 have more depth, better lighting. From what Kaz says in interviews. He want to implement someting like in DC, you can choose any time od day or night you want + possible weather. The only problem is one that the weather will not be changed dynamically. I hope its true.
- 8,723
Historically, the better aesthetic of console games was partly because of the bespoke graphics hardware and the instructions and software to go with it. Developers weren't limited to fixed functions, or at least not the same fixed functions. The flexibility and expression that was witnessed in the "software graphics" era before the rise and eventual domination of 3D acceleration on PC effectively continued on the consoles because of the absence of the need for generality of hardware.
I remember being impressed by the per-pixel capabilities (faked or otherwise) of the original Playstation, and confused as to why it couldn't be done (efficiently) on PC. There were exceptions like Geoff Crammond's software renderer in GP3 - the weather effects were out of this world for the time, but next to impossible to achieve with DirectX or OpenGL etc.
Now, though, the hardware is pretty much the same, and in some cases, so is the software aspect. The difference comes simply as a matter of attitude; console developers have been in the same mindset all along, and the new GPGPU stuff is just like the good old days to them, whilst it's a real game-changer for PC and will take some adjusting to.
I remember being impressed by the per-pixel capabilities (faked or otherwise) of the original Playstation, and confused as to why it couldn't be done (efficiently) on PC. There were exceptions like Geoff Crammond's software renderer in GP3 - the weather effects were out of this world for the time, but next to impossible to achieve with DirectX or OpenGL etc.
Now, though, the hardware is pretty much the same, and in some cases, so is the software aspect. The difference comes simply as a matter of attitude; console developers have been in the same mindset all along, and the new GPGPU stuff is just like the good old days to them, whilst it's a real game-changer for PC and will take some adjusting to.
- 511
- Indiana
- zerosnake99
With GT, PD have a huge fanbase so they dont need to make good games anymore just like EA games, konami, activision, ubisoft, etc...
They are lying about the hardware limitations and to do so...they are saying its all about the framerate but it is about them not caring anymore...(sorry for bad english)
They are lying about the hardware limitations and to do so...they are saying its all about the framerate but it is about them not caring anymore...(sorry for bad english)
ColouredBadger
(Banned)
- 396
- England
- ColouredBadger
I've been keeping track of this thread since my original posts and something has struck me.
What if PD aren't adding Dynamic Time or Weather because they've simply ran out of time to build it? Sony has got to be breathing down their necks with PS4 being 3 years old (4 this Christmas) and Sony wanting their 'chief racer' out on the new-gen console.
Think about it.
-They were working on dynamic puddles back in GT6 on the Course Creator tracks, and it looked pretty good for the software/hardware. So they clearly were working on a model for it and testing it 'live'.
-They must have some form of Day/Night model in-place else you wouldn't be able to pre-select time of day, so that indicates a model of some form, surely? Just because it's locked, doesn't mean it's not in the game.
-Polyphony have had to cancel the Beta because they can't stick to schedule, which suggests higher powers using executive decisions. PD would just delay it until it's good enough if it was up to them.
It could simply be that 'Frame Rate issues' is an excuse for "The bosses boss is angry at us and we haven't got time so we're blaming someone/something else" and they have to jump through hoops to get it done on time for Sony's executives.
The full GT7 might end up having full Dynamic weather, and a good system too, all because they'll have time to build it once GT Sport keeps the execs happy for a while.
Just a thought.
What if PD aren't adding Dynamic Time or Weather because they've simply ran out of time to build it? Sony has got to be breathing down their necks with PS4 being 3 years old (4 this Christmas) and Sony wanting their 'chief racer' out on the new-gen console.
Think about it.
-They were working on dynamic puddles back in GT6 on the Course Creator tracks, and it looked pretty good for the software/hardware. So they clearly were working on a model for it and testing it 'live'.
-They must have some form of Day/Night model in-place else you wouldn't be able to pre-select time of day, so that indicates a model of some form, surely? Just because it's locked, doesn't mean it's not in the game.
-Polyphony have had to cancel the Beta because they can't stick to schedule, which suggests higher powers using executive decisions. PD would just delay it until it's good enough if it was up to them.
It could simply be that 'Frame Rate issues' is an excuse for "The bosses boss is angry at us and we haven't got time so we're blaming someone/something else" and they have to jump through hoops to get it done on time for Sony's executives.
The full GT7 might end up having full Dynamic weather, and a good system too, all because they'll have time to build it once GT Sport keeps the execs happy for a while.
Just a thought.
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- 8,723
Yeah...makes sense until you know they say the game is at 50% development (and im pretty sure its around 80%) and it looks more like a gt6 port than a new game....
Flikering shadows are kind of a proof that they are using the same game engine in a improoved version.
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